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Post by carookie on Sept 18, 2022 12:54:33 GMT -6
Hey its my bye week, so I got time for such posts
So for the first time in about a decade I am back to coaching at a public school, after many years at private schools. Its a great group of coaches, and I respect them a lot, but one thing caught me off guard: how often they say "f--k" to the kids. To just say its a lot is not really a good explanation (thats a vague term). I know there has not been a single pre-game, half time, or post game speech where it has not been used at least once by a coach. I would say most sideline conversations include it, as do many post game handshakes, ie: "great f---ing job out there". Its not always used in anger, in fact rarely so, its just always there.
Now I'm no prude, I grew up dropping every four letter word in the book, and when its me and the guys they still come out. But I've always been taught that you don't use that language around the kids in a school setting, which this is. So my questions are, is this common now? The last few public schools I was at (late 00s and early 10s) this wasnt allowed by the coaches, and I am basically working with the similar population group in a similar sized school as before. Did coaching society change around me while I was at private schools? Is this part of the post 2020 relaxation of social norms that has come about? or is this just my situation?
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Post by chi5hi on Sept 18, 2022 12:59:21 GMT -6
Adults set an example. Especially coaches. I don't allow it.
I always thought that people who use that word suffer from a limited vocabulary.
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Post by blb on Sept 18, 2022 13:01:16 GMT -6
Hey its my bye week, so I got time for such posts So for the first time in about a decade I am back to coaching at a public school, after many years at private schools. Its a great group of coaches, and I respect them a lot, but one thing caught me off guard: how often they say "f--k" to the kids. To just say its a lot is not really a good explanation (thats a vague term). I know there has not been a single pre-game, half time, or post game speech where it has not been used at least once by a coach. I would say most sideline conversations include it, as do many post game handshakes, ie: "great f---ing job out there". Its not always used in anger, in fact rarely so, its just always there. Now I'm no prude, I grew up dropping every four letter word in the book, and when its me and the guys they still come out. But I've always been taught that you don't use that language around the kids in a school setting, which this is. So my questions are, is this common now? The last few public schools I was at (late 00s and early 10s) this wasnt allowed by the coaches, and I am basically working with the similar population group in a similar sized school as before. Did coaching society change around me while I was at private schools? Is this part of the post 2020 relaxation of social norms that has come about? or is this just my situation? Personally I don't think it's appropriate, never used it around our kids, and told assistants if they used it and got called on it by parents-administration I couldn't defend them. |
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Post by agap on Sept 18, 2022 13:03:32 GMT -6
Where I'm at now, we cannot swear at all around the players. The superintendent sends an email every year saying we cannot swear at all and that he'll never back us if we do. Other places I've coached, there has been swearing around players but it didn't happen often; even then it was barely ever the F word. Usually the F word was saved for a pregame speech or certain situations. I haven't been on a staff where the F word was used like you described.
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Post by bignose on Sept 18, 2022 13:03:56 GMT -6
Would you drop an F-Bomb in your classroom?
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Post by CS on Sept 18, 2022 16:09:08 GMT -6
Would you drop an F-Bomb in your classroom? I hate this comparison. Not the same thing. Cue the over generalized explanation on how it is. Truth is it depends on the town and the culture of the kids in my experience. I’ve used it before I’m sure in the heat of the moment but I refrain from using the f bomb unless I’m around adults. I don’t like cussing around kids for the most part. If I hear it it doesn’t bother me as long as it’s not out of line but I e never seen or heard anyone do that |
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Post by bluedevil4 on Sept 18, 2022 16:47:18 GMT -6
I swear like a sailor off the field, but I don't support it, mostly because it's not necessary and doesn't help anything or anyone in the context of coaching and running a team. It's also gonna take one parent who one day hears it, doesn't like it, and now your season has gone from football problems to PR problems. The negative outweighs the positives. I would put an end to it if you have that kind of power, otherwise set an example.
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CoachK
Sophomore Member
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Post by CoachK on Sept 18, 2022 17:59:21 GMT -6
When I get mad I talk to players like they're 3. Take a deep breath and explain things as simply as I can.
When we're joking around I'm awful with it and I wish I was better. Been improving, at least.
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 18, 2022 18:47:14 GMT -6
Adults set an example. Especially coaches. I don't allow it. I always thought that people who use that word suffer from a limited vocabulary. I have a very extensive {censored} vocabulary, thank you. |
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Post by 19delta on Sept 18, 2022 19:13:49 GMT -6
When I started coaching in 2001, I was a giant, raging a$$hole. If someone would have filmed me, it would have been the ultimate cringe reel and I would have been Internet infamous. I was...not a good coach.
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 18, 2022 19:15:08 GMT -6
I was a giant, raging a$$hole. Was?  |
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Post by 19delta on Sept 18, 2022 19:21:32 GMT -6
I was a giant, raging a$$hole. Was? Well, I at least don't say " {censored}" to HS kids any more. |
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Post by carookie on Sept 18, 2022 20:52:12 GMT -6
Was? Well, I at least don't say " {censored}" to HS kids any more. The thing is, most of these guys (well, maybe half of them) are vets. Been doing it for a long time and are very successful. Moreover, they are not really angry, not using it to demean, its just part of their lexicon. Thats why I was legitimately wondering if this was the norm now. If these guys were just raging nut cases, I would chalk it up as such; they are not. Spending the past decade at smaller private schools may have insulated me from the way things were changing around me. |
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 18, 2022 20:59:50 GMT -6
Was? Well, I at least don't say " {censored}" to HS kids any more. Neither do I. |
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 18, 2022 21:02:30 GMT -6
Well, I at least don't say " {censored}" to HS kids any more. The thing is, most of these guys (well, maybe half of them) are vets. Been doing it for a long time and are very successful. Moreover, they are not really angry, not using it to demean, its just part of their lexicon. Thats why I was legitimately wondering if this was the norm now. If these guys were just raging nut cases, I would chalk it up as such; they are not. Spending the past decade at smaller private schools may have insulated me from the way things were changing around me. To supplement your point, I have been very intrigued by this societal move that coaches swearing is a horrible, horrendous thing when it's always happened historically, but rampant swearing in society, including by the president (either one) is perfectly acceptable. |
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Post by CanyonCoach on Sept 19, 2022 7:49:41 GMT -6
last season we lost a game because a coach and a player kept dropping the F bomb.
When a player looks directly into a refs eyes and says "what the F" after a holding call...that ends up being minus 25 from the spot of the hold (five yards in the back field on 2 and goal from the 4). And then we false start blatantly and a coach screams "what the F are you doing" directly in the ear of the line judge...needless to say we punted from the opposite 40. Never seen a 4th and goal from the 50 before. Lost by 3.
Every swear word was an up-down the next week for everyone Coaches included.
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Post by jstoss24 on Sept 19, 2022 7:50:36 GMT -6
My personal rule is “no f-words, no b-words, no n-words.’ I won’t use them and I’ll punish my players for using them. Outside that, I don’t really care as long as it’s not excessive and I try not to swear at all in front of kids. The HC I currently work for does not have the same rule and I’ve been shocked at the way our coaches and players talk. I try to discourage my players and students from swearing, but I also understand that kids will repeat what they hear at home and in music/TV/movies. I feel the best way I can manage it is by modeling appropriate language and reminding kids that the way they talk can reflect back on them, their families, the football program, and the school and they need to be aware of who may be listening.
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Post by Defcord on Sept 19, 2022 11:22:00 GMT -6
last season we lost a game because a coach and a player kept dropping the F bomb. When a player looks directly into a refs eyes and says "what the F" after a holding call...that ends up being minus 25 from the spot of the hold (five yards in the back field on 2 and goal from the 4). And then we false start blatantly and a coach screams "what the F are you doing" directly in the ear of the line judge...needless to say we punted from the opposite 40. Never seen a 4th and goal from the 50 before. Lost by 3. Every swear word was an up-down the next week for everyone Coaches included. Doesn’t sound like swearing was the problem. Sounds like disrespecting other people was the issue. Fuckk is only a minor part of the issue. Assistant coaches and players shouldn’t be disrespecting or questioning the officials with any vernacular. |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 19, 2022 11:34:10 GMT -6
I swear like a sailor in the appropriate settings but I keep my language in check around the kids. I ask the same of the guys that coach under me, as well as the kids. I let some PG/PG-13 language slide as long as it's not consistent or directed at anyone but an f-bomb is an automatic round of bear crawling, crab walking and sprinting after practice (coaches included).
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Post by raider92 on Sept 19, 2022 12:02:48 GMT -6
As long as the cursing doesnt become casual/conversational I dont get too worked up. A kid saying "f--k" because hes frustrated after giving up a big play is way different than just casually swearing for no reason.
Coaches are the same, as long as it's not habitual/casual swearing just to swear I dont get too worked up. Some of the guys who are teachers are more careful about it and guys who work outside of education let more of it go. It all evens out.
I'll admit when I get real hot over lack of effort or something an F bomb is probably coming. If you're using it rarely it should have it's intended effect.
Depends on kid too, a 1 on 1 discussion with a very mature senior who's committed and bought into the program is a lot different than just casually slinging expletives towards a group of slappy freshman who are gonna go tell their mom.
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Post by tothehouse on Sept 19, 2022 12:28:49 GMT -6
One day this summer 10 kids missed practice to go to the local fair.
I think I used 50 f bombs on the team the next day.
I hadn't used one before that and I don't think I have since.
A point had to be made. I wasn't happy with myself...but the point was made. Besides sitting those 10 kids for the first game.
I was bad...then I coached in a program where you just didn't cuss. Nobody did...it was just normal to not cuss. Then I started cussing under a different coach. Not much, but it was there. Now...I'm back to not. Reason being...just don't need any extra {censored} during my coaching experience.
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Post by Defcord on Sept 19, 2022 12:30:00 GMT -6
I swear like a sailor in the appropriate settings but I keep my language in check around the kids. I ask the same of the guys that coach under me, as well as the kids. I let some PG/PG-13 language slide as long as it's not consistent or directed at anyone but an f-bomb is an automatic round of bear crawling, crab walking and sprinting after practice (coaches included). But why is the F word so mystical and powerful that it gets special attention? |
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Post by Defcord on Sept 19, 2022 12:31:45 GMT -6
My personal rule is “no f-words, no b-words, no n-words.’ I won’t use them and I’ll punish my players for using them. Outside that, I don’t really care as long as it’s not excessive and I try not to swear at all in front of kids. The HC I currently work for does not have the same rule and I’ve been shocked at the way our coaches and players talk. I try to discourage my players and students from swearing, but I also understand that kids will repeat what they hear at home and in music/TV/movies. I feel the best way I can manage it is by modeling appropriate language and reminding kids that the way they talk can reflect back on them, their families, the football program, and the school and they need to be aware of who may be listening. I understand the no n-words, but why do you draw your line on the other two? Language is interesting to me because it's just syllables and any rule banning certain words is mostly arbitrary it seems. Maybe not though. I am interested to hear your thoughts on why you chose those specific words. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2022 14:57:43 GMT -6
As others have said, this is very highly specific to the culture of that particular place. Some places will suspend/fire you for it, while others just consider it acceptable. In other places, from secondhand knowledge it seems like the attitude is "If you're not cussin', you're not coachin'."
Personally, I find it unprofessional, but I would be lying if I claimed to never say it around football
A few years ago the then-HFC at my HS alma mater got fired at midseason for dropping some f-bombs during a halftime speech as he was chewing their @$$es. One player on the team with attitude problems who'd clashed with that coach (and all his other coaches) got the dude fired. Parents threatened to sue over "verbal and emotional abuse" or something.
Then the same kid got the head basketball coach fired at the same school *for the same reason* a few months later--all over dropping an f-bomb in practice when he got frustrated at the kid for loafing in sprints. The last thing you want to do is give those cancerous types of kids a weapon to use against you.
Ironically enough, the guy who is NOW HFC at my old alma mater was actually kicked off his former staff for blowing up at a kid in practice at about the same time. He came to that school as DC for the dude they did hire, then took over when he left after a few years.
Then there are places where it is accepted. Often, those places tend to be either in very rough neighborhoods or where it's just always been a part of the experience and they likely have some strong tradition there, so nobody bats an eye.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 19, 2022 15:11:48 GMT -6
I swear like a sailor in the appropriate settings but I keep my language in check around the kids. I ask the same of the guys that coach under me, as well as the kids. I let some PG/PG-13 language slide as long as it's not consistent or directed at anyone but an f-bomb is an automatic round of bear crawling, crab walking and sprinting after practice (coaches included). But why is the F word so mystical and powerful that it gets special attention?
Your guess is as good as mine. An f-bomb gets a kid kicked out of school for a day here. Sh-t gets you a half-hour of detention.
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 19, 2022 16:11:01 GMT -6
But why is the F word so mystical and powerful that it gets special attention?
Your guess is as good as mine. An f-bomb gets a kid kicked out of school for a day here. Sh-t gets you a half-hour of detention.
Public or private school? |
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Post by Defcord on Sept 19, 2022 17:19:56 GMT -6
But why is the F word so mystical and powerful that it gets special attention?
Your guess is as good as mine. An f-bomb gets a kid kicked out of school for a day here. Sh-t gets you a half-hour of detention.
Well why do you personally make it an automatic bear crawl and not the others? |
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Post by s73 on Sept 19, 2022 18:17:19 GMT -6
My personal opinion on this matter is it takes discipline not to use those words when frustrated, conversing, etc. If we really push for our players to be disciplined I think curbing there language is one tool to do it & it shows we practice what we preach.
Having said that, I don't think it's the end all be all sin in coaching but regularity of that language at practice IMO just kinda sounds dumb.
It also is a reflection of the program in a game. Officials talk for sure just like coaches do & I think if one team uses that language on the field and the other does not, I believe in a tight game you could get a call go for or against when a play is kinda grey.
What I;m saying is, not against using it on occasion to emphasize a point but I don't think it reflects well when it's habitual.
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Post by jstoss24 on Sept 19, 2022 20:02:28 GMT -6
My personal rule is “no f-words, no b-words, no n-words.’ I won’t use them and I’ll punish my players for using them. Outside that, I don’t really care as long as it’s not excessive and I try not to swear at all in front of kids. The HC I currently work for does not have the same rule and I’ve been shocked at the way our coaches and players talk. I try to discourage my players and students from swearing, but I also understand that kids will repeat what they hear at home and in music/TV/movies. I feel the best way I can manage it is by modeling appropriate language and reminding kids that the way they talk can reflect back on them, their families, the football program, and the school and they need to be aware of who may be listening. I understand the no n-words, but why do you draw your line on the other two? Language is interesting to me because it's just syllables and any rule banning certain words is mostly arbitrary it seems. Maybe not though. I am interested to hear your thoughts on why you chose those specific words. Now that I think about it, it definitely is arbitrary. I got it from a former HC that I worked for. I don’t like the b-word because of the derogatory connotation towards women. As far as the f-word goes, I guess it just feels slightly more vulgar than a** or s***, but I can’t argue with you. |
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Post by agap on Sept 19, 2022 21:49:38 GMT -6
The thing is, most of these guys (well, maybe half of them) are vets. Been doing it for a long time and are very successful. Moreover, they are not really angry, not using it to demean, its just part of their lexicon. Thats why I was legitimately wondering if this was the norm now. If these guys were just raging nut cases, I would chalk it up as such; they are not. Spending the past decade at smaller private schools may have insulated me from the way things were changing around me. To supplement your point, I have been very intrigued by this societal move that coaches swearing is a horrible, horrendous thing when it's always happened historically, but rampant swearing in society, including by the president (either one) is perfectly acceptable. Plus TV shows/movies on cable have swearing (including the F word), radio shows swear on the air, music obviously has swearing, etc., but coaches are getting fired for swearing. Now that we're PBIS at school, students can swear and the only thing we can do is remind them that it's a minor offense and we don't use that language in school. If they continue to swear, we have to continue reminding them that it's not acceptable. |
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