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Post by carookie on Sept 18, 2021 12:28:57 GMT -6
Is it just me, or have refs in your area not been calling holding as much anymore? I feel as if I have seen more O-line grab and take downs in this half season than I had seen in any full season before.
I know the NFL made a conscious decision to be more liberal in what they allow, and though that has no direct impact on what happens for most of us, maybe the officials are seeing that and taking a queue? Full disclosure, I am a defensive coach foremost, so maybe I am just seeing things, but I see it a lot when our guys get away with it too.
Is this just me, or is there something going on?
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Post by silkyice on Sept 18, 2021 13:02:27 GMT -6
Is it just me, or have refs in your area not been calling holding as much anymore? I feel as if I have seen more O-line grab and take downs in this half season than I had seen in any full season before. I know the NFL made a conscious decision to be more liberal in what they allow, and though that has no direct impact on what happens for most of us, maybe the officials are seeing that and taking a queue? Full disclosure, I am a defensive coach foremost, so maybe I am just seeing things, but I see it a lot when our guys get away with it too. Is this just me, or is there something going on? Offensive tackling the defensive player who is one to a few steps away from making the tackle is now legal. Or so it seems. I have given up on even worrying about them calling holding. Offensive tackling is only called about 25% of the time if that. |
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Post by carookie on Sept 18, 2021 13:30:34 GMT -6
Is it just me, or have refs in your area not been calling holding as much anymore? I feel as if I have seen more O-line grab and take downs in this half season than I had seen in any full season before. I know the NFL made a conscious decision to be more liberal in what they allow, and though that has no direct impact on what happens for most of us, maybe the officials are seeing that and taking a queue? Full disclosure, I am a defensive coach foremost, so maybe I am just seeing things, but I see it a lot when our guys get away with it too. Is this just me, or is there something going on? Or so it seems. I have given up on even worrying about them calling holding. Offensive tackling is only called about 25% of the time if that. With as bad as it has been this year, it truthfully took me a second to recognize the sarcasm in that (I thought possibly a rule change had come down that I didn't know about). |
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Post by bobgoodman on Sept 18, 2021 14:30:21 GMT -6
I know the NFL made a conscious decision to be more liberal in what they allow, Yeah, about 50 years ago. It's a slow process of pushing the envelope. Or in this case of getting their thumbs under the flap and ripping it open. |
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Post by wolverine55 on Sept 18, 2021 17:39:03 GMT -6
I can't say I've noticed a difference where I'm at. In fact, in last week's game it almost seemed like the refs assumed that a pancake block must have been a hold. I had to start Monday's defensive film session with by telling my defensive end: "You know you weren't held on this play, right Colin? You literally just got your ass kicked..." lol
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 18, 2021 18:07:46 GMT -6
I can't say I've noticed a difference where I'm at. In fact, in last week's game it almost seemed like the refs assumed that a pancake block must have been a hold. I had to start Monday's defensive film session with by telling my defensive end: "You know you weren't held on this play, right Colin? You literally just got your ass kicked..." lol We used to have a kid that would pancake kids so bad they called him twice in the same year for unnecessary roughness. A lot of it comes down to you have a bunch of ref crews that literally don't know what they are doing since they're so desperate for officials. |
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Post by wolverine55 on Sept 18, 2021 18:52:10 GMT -6
Exactly. We had 37 accepted penalties both teams combined in our Week 3 game. And it was against a rival, so yes it was a little chippy but honestly nothing extraordinary.
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Post by carookie on Sept 18, 2021 20:06:05 GMT -6
I can't say I've noticed a difference where I'm at. In fact, in last week's game it almost seemed like the refs assumed that a pancake block must have been a hold. I had to start Monday's defensive film session with by telling my defensive end: "You know you weren't held on this play, right Colin? You literally just got your ass kicked..." lol We used to have a kid that would pancake kids so bad they called him twice in the same year for unnecessary roughness. A lot of it comes down to you have a bunch of ref crews that literally don't know what they are doing since they're so desperate for officials. Yeah, Im not exactly in a lot of big time top division games this year, so maybe I'm just drawing the short end as far as officials go. |
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Post by canesfan on Sept 19, 2021 10:04:55 GMT -6
I called a timeout Friday simply to go off about this. Huge 4th down play, we had a defender there to make the play and the blocker he defeated tackled him. On the perimeter. 10 feet or so from the official. Conscious decision not to call it. It’s ridiculous and unsafe.
It has been consistent though. No perimeter holds have been called no matter what has happened.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 19, 2021 14:02:08 GMT -6
I called a timeout Friday simply to go off about this. Huge 4th down play, we had a defender there to make the play and the blocker he defeated tackled him. On the perimeter. 10 feet or so from the official. Conscious decision not to call it. It’s ridiculous and unsafe. It has been consistent though. No perimeter holds have been called no matter what has happened. Serious question. How do you know it was a conscious decision not to call it? I understand the frustration, but with the growing official shortage, isn't it possible that the quality of the person out there on the wing just wasn't very good? That he honestly did not see it, maybe his eyes were in the wrong place, his mechanics were wrong, etc. I mean college football fandom, and social media, James Franklin etc. went nuts over the mistake over downs from last nights game against Auburn. None of the 21 coaches/staff members listed on PSU's website (which isn't even counting any S&C guys) caught the mistake in time to rectify it? |
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 19, 2021 17:23:32 GMT -6
I think, having observed football the past few years from a different perspective, that most officials and most coaches for that matter, just watch the ball anymore.
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Post by bulldogsdc on Sept 20, 2021 7:12:36 GMT -6
I have made a conscious effort to watch highlights of 2/3/4/5 star recruits on 247 to see what makes them different. A lot of the GREAT blocks are simply bigger dudes grabbing and throwing inferior defenders to the ground and then jumping on them. To me that is holding (not the jumping on part). It seems to be a thing that is glorified.
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Post by bobgoodman on Sept 20, 2021 7:40:18 GMT -6
I called a timeout Friday simply to go off about this. Huge 4th down play, we had a defender there to make the play and the blocker he defeated tackled him. On the perimeter. 10 feet or so from the official. Conscious decision not to call it. It’s ridiculous and unsafe. It has been consistent though. No perimeter holds have been called no matter what has happened. Just a guess...if it is a conscious decision, might it be because they've decided quarterbacks should not be subject to blind side tackles? |
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Post by MICoach on Sept 20, 2021 8:14:57 GMT -6
You guys clearly haven't met our left tackle...
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Post by canesfan on Sept 20, 2021 8:15:26 GMT -6
I called a timeout Friday simply to go off about this. Huge 4th down play, we had a defender there to make the play and the blocker he defeated tackled him. On the perimeter. 10 feet or so from the official. Conscious decision not to call it. It’s ridiculous and unsafe. It has been consistent though. No perimeter holds have been called no matter what has happened. Serious question. How do you know it was a conscious decision not to call it? I understand the frustration, but with the growing official shortage, isn't it possible that the quality of the person out there on the wing just wasn't very good? That he honestly did not see it, maybe his eyes were in the wrong place, his mechanics were wrong, etc. I mean college football fandom, and social media, James Franklin etc. went nuts over the mistake over downs from last nights game against Auburn. None of the 21 coaches/staff members listed on PSU's website (which isn't even counting any S&C guys) caught the mistake in time to rectify it? To be fair, you have no idea how our games have been called. Play was at the LOS, illegal block was at the point of attack. It was near the sideline, so he was probably 5-10 feet from it. Zero chance he didn’t see it. Zero chance they haven’t seen the majority of them. Consistently in our area you can get away with anything on the perimeter. |
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Post by canesfan on Sept 20, 2021 8:18:33 GMT -6
I called a timeout Friday simply to go off about this. Huge 4th down play, we had a defender there to make the play and the blocker he defeated tackled him. On the perimeter. 10 feet or so from the official. Conscious decision not to call it. It’s ridiculous and unsafe. It has been consistent though. No perimeter holds have been called no matter what has happened. Just a guess...if it is a conscious decision, might it be because they've decided quarterbacks should not be subject to blind side tackles? Who said it was a QB. And why would they randomly decide that anyway. You want a first down in our area, run a screen or sweep to your sideline and do whatever you want to defenders. Been this way all season. It’s ridiculous and unsafe. Our overhang was in a headlock at one point on Friday. Football has become to protective of offenses to allow them to hold on the perimeter as well. It’s terrible. |
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Post by RunThePistol on Sept 20, 2021 9:08:39 GMT -6
We had 15 holding calls 2 games ago, and had 5 this past friday night. So IMO no holding calls are very much still alive.
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Post by newhope on Sept 20, 2021 13:38:44 GMT -6
Is it just me, or have refs in your area not been calling holding as much anymore? I feel as if I have seen more O-line grab and take downs in this half season than I had seen in any full season before. I know the NFL made a conscious decision to be more liberal in what they allow, and though that has no direct impact on what happens for most of us, maybe the officials are seeing that and taking a queue? Full disclosure, I am a defensive coach foremost, so maybe I am just seeing things, but I see it a lot when our guys get away with it too. Is this just me, or is there something going on? Depends on the opponent and how many times you run to their sideline.....we had holding called everytime we had a big gain in the red zone in our opener (including on the back side with no effect on the play), but very few since and pretty much none the rest of that game. |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 20, 2021 13:51:32 GMT -6
We've had zero holding calls against us this year on the OL and we certainly deserved more than a few. Hands outside of the frame, grabbing cloth, extended... Blatant, ugly and we're fixing it.
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Post by carookie on Sept 20, 2021 19:47:25 GMT -6
We've had zero holding calls against us this year on the OL and we certainly deserved more than a few. Hands outside of the frame, grabbing cloth, extended... Blatant, ugly and we're fixing it. Why? if it isnt holding anymore (tongue firmly planted in cheek). |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 21, 2021 9:42:53 GMT -6
We've had zero holding calls against us this year on the OL and we certainly deserved more than a few. Hands outside of the frame, grabbing cloth, extended... Blatant, ugly and we're fixing it. Why? if it isnt holding anymore (tongue firmly planted in cheek).
Lol.... I have to be honest... I was embarrassed watching our OL's hand placement during our first game. We didn't get flagged at all but it was awful. We had a 15 minute session on the sled the next week as a "refresher" regarding hand-placement.
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Post by carookie on Sept 21, 2021 10:18:45 GMT -6
Why? if it isnt holding anymore (tongue firmly planted in cheek).
Lol.... I have to be honest... I was embarrassed watching our OL's hand placement during our first game. We didn't get flagged at all but it was awful. We had a 15 minute session on the sled the next week as a "refresher" regarding hand-placement.
The fact that you, 'put hands on people', put you a far sight ahead of our OL week 1. |
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Post by echoofthewhistle on Sept 21, 2021 12:03:09 GMT -6
Lol.... I have to be honest... I was embarrassed watching our OL's hand placement during our first game. We didn't get flagged at all but it was awful. We had a 15 minute session on the sled the next week as a "refresher" regarding hand-placement.
The fact that you, 'put hands on people', put you a far sight ahead of our OL week 1. Yep, I swear some of our players would leave them behind if they weren't attached. |
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Post by bartimus58 on Oct 6, 2021 12:36:55 GMT -6
It has to be absolutely egregious to get a holding call here. I've honestly debated teaching OL to grab the outside of the pads and turn their shoulders. Can't beat em, join em.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 6, 2021 13:14:44 GMT -6
It has to be absolutely egregious to get a holding call here. I've honestly debated teaching OL to grab the outside of the pads and turn their shoulders. Can't beat em, join em. I have also. I mean I have seen blocks where you tackle and spin the dude 360 degrees right out in the open (like the OLB getting tackled and spun on stretch), and holding not getting called. Just please call those. You get tackled or spun around, holding. I can live with the others not getting called. |
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Post by junior6589 on Oct 6, 2021 18:46:57 GMT -6
Not in my neck of the woods. Officials around love to call WRs for holding on screens and outside runs
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Post by nicku on Oct 6, 2021 18:59:33 GMT -6
We had 15 holding calls 2 games ago, and had 5 this past friday night. So IMO no holding calls are very much still alive. Yeah, whatever refs these guys are getting, please, by all means, send them to Dallas/Fort Worth. Lol |
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Post by tog on Oct 6, 2021 20:53:08 GMT -6
Is it just me, or have refs in your area not been calling holding as much anymore? I feel as if I have seen more O-line grab and take downs in this half season than I had seen in any full season before. I know the NFL made a conscious decision to be more liberal in what they allow, and though that has no direct impact on what happens for most of us, maybe the officials are seeing that and taking a queue? Full disclosure, I am a defensive coach foremost, so maybe I am just seeing things, but I see it a lot when our guys get away with it too. Is this just me, or is there something going on? it's all belly on belly tackling anymore kind of blocking that I see anymore and yeah they are letting it all go the game has changed for the worse imho |
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Post by Defcord on Oct 7, 2021 3:42:19 GMT -6
We hold so much in our secondary that they can’t call it every time. We had a play in one game where four receivers were at four different officials after the play asking for flags.
When I coached the offensive it was the same way.
If you have matchups that you don’t have the edge in then you have to create it with holding on the offensive line and secondary both.
Officials are already the most hated group in the world so once you bite the bullet on a couple really bad holds early, you basically can get away with anything but murder at the point of attack. And away from the ball is basically the Wild West. The officials don’t want to get booed all night for never putting their flag in their pocket and they also don’t want to get home at midnight.
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Post by tripsclosed on Oct 7, 2021 6:26:02 GMT -6
We hold so much in our secondary that they can’t call it every time. We had a play in one game where four receivers were at four different officials after the play asking for flags. When I coached the offensive it was the same way. If you have matchups that you don’t have the edge in then you have to create it with holding on the offensive line and secondary both. Officials are already the most hated group in the world so once you bite the bullet on a couple really bad holds early, you basically can get away with anything but murder at the point of attack. And away from the ball is basically the Wild West. The officials don’t want to get booed all night for never putting their flag in their pocket and they also don’t want to get home at midnight. Not gonna lie coach that is straight up shady/unsportsmanlike, and absolutely against the spirit of the rules and game. I mean, that's basically straight up cheating...As far as the life lessons aspect, if you care about that sort of thing, what kind of example is that setting, and what life lesson is that teaching your players? That if you think you cant win straight up, you resort to blatant cheating? I get if you accidentally hold sometimes, or if an OL has a pass rusher screaming down on the QB and you dont think you can stop them straight up, then you should probably protect your QB for the sake of the QB's physical safety, but other than that, that's phuked IMHO. |
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