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Post by 19delta on Aug 11, 2021 8:41:56 GMT -6
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Post by blb on Aug 11, 2021 9:32:19 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2021 9:45:25 GMT -6
I wonder if the coaches, administrators were fired shortly after the death. If not, I would like know how they kept their jobs. |
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Post by 19delta on Aug 11, 2021 9:48:29 GMT -6
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Post by blb on Aug 11, 2021 9:54:29 GMT -6
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Post by 19delta on Aug 11, 2021 10:49:47 GMT -6
That's terrible. How does this happen? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2021 11:02:16 GMT -6
That's terrible. How does this happen? People in jobs they shouldnt have. I knock my boss on here for a lot of things, but its {censored} like, the heat index, Where I thank my lucky stars. A lot of the non sense is because of stuff like the heat index. If it is hot enough, ill get a text saying we are doing this this this this this, And then we will have practice. We get out 245. We will practice at 5, and we dont let the kids go home, because they prob aint comin back. |
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 11, 2021 11:07:24 GMT -6
That's terrible. How does this happen? I think you have a mix of dumb coaches, kids with unknown health issues, and sometimes, just morbidly obese kids. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2021 11:08:09 GMT -6
That's terrible. How does this happen? I think you have a mix of dumb coaches, kids with unknown health issues, and sometimes, just morbidly obese kids. Which means you have dumb admin. |
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Post by wingtol on Aug 11, 2021 12:43:19 GMT -6
And again we have guys in other threads talking about making kids puke for acting like a jackass in class at school....
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Post by carookie on Aug 11, 2021 16:25:38 GMT -6
That's terrible. How does this happen? I think you have a mix of dumb coaches, kids with unknown health issues, and sometimes, just morbidly obese kids. I agree, I think there are a lot variables at play that probably differ from case to case, and in all likelihood it could be something that could unluckily happen to any of us (God forbid). Granted, you take steps to mitigate these events but in some cases bad things just happen. I played my ball in the deserts of southern california (this isnt a kids were tougher in my day rant, just providing context). WE regularly broke 120 degrees and had full on afternoon practices, nothing like this ever happened. Sometimes its just a roll of the dice. But like I wrote earlier, we should do things to mitigate this. Sadly, a lot of coaches don't. |
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 11, 2021 17:15:08 GMT -6
I think you have a mix of dumb coaches, kids with unknown health issues, and sometimes, just morbidly obese kids. I agree, I think there are a lot variables at play that probably differ from case to case, and in all likelihood it could be something that could unluckily happen to any of us (God forbid). Granted, you take steps to mitigate these events but in some cases bad things just happen. I played my ball in the deserts of southern california (this isnt a kids were tougher in my day rant, just providing context). WE regularly broke 120 degrees and had full on afternoon practices, nothing like this ever happened. Sometimes its just a roll of the dice. But like I wrote earlier, we should do things to mitigate this. Sadly, a lot of coaches don't. We almost had a kid die because of practice. First day of full pads and we always ended our tackling stations with a team Oklahoma station. Had three groups- freshmen, JV and littler older kids, and the big boys. Kid in the freshmen group felt weird after being the ball carrier and getting tackled. Fell on the football and initially thought he just got the wind knocked out of him. He kept steadily feeling worse up to the point we called his dad to come get him. Eventually dad took him to the hospital. The eventually airlifted him to Springfield because he had ruptured his spleen. I can assure you the story on it had he died would not have relayed any of that information. It probably would have said "A Central Illinois HS football player died after practicing a dangerous tackling drill." |
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 11, 2021 21:13:40 GMT -6
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Post by fkaboneyard on Aug 12, 2021 9:38:02 GMT -6
It's easy to take shots at a program with a dead kid when all you read is a two paragraph news article. Certainly, there are programs with dumb coaches that make dumb decisions and it's a miracle they don't lose more kids. There are also programs with conscientious coaches that happen to have a player with an unknown medical issue.
I was in a program where the HC was so worried about the effect that heat would have on kids that he made wholesale changes to practice structure when heat hit 90+ (which was nearly all the time in southern California) - moved practices to mornings, watered kids literally every 10 minutes, checked in with the kids all the time "you guys okay? do we need a rest?". It was frustrating to the staff but we understood and dealt with it. Then one practice a kid with a congenital heart defect collapsed and we lost him. It was a morning practice that had only been underway for about 40 minutes. Fortunately for me, I was not at the practice because I was in a business meeting. In spite of being surrounded by a bunch of ambulance chasers the family did not attempt to hold the coaches or school responsible. Still, the HC and several AC's quit and never coached again. If I had seen that child laying there going out of the picture I don't know that I could have stepped back on the field. Heck, I saw a kid compound fracture his leg and it still haunts me.
One thing to add - there were comments from ignorant fools that blamed the coaches for this kid's death. Said we worked them too hard, it was too hot to be practicing in the heat of the day, etc.
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Post by 19delta on Aug 12, 2021 10:00:27 GMT -6
It's easy to take shots at a program with a dead kid when all you read is a two paragraph news article. Certainly, there are programs with dumb coaches that make dumb decisions and it's a miracle they don't lose more kids. There are also programs with conscientious coaches that happen to have a player with an unknown medical issue.
I was in a program where the HC was so worried about the effect that heat would have on kids that he made wholesale changes to practice structure when heat hit 90+ (which was nearly all the time in southern California) - moved practices to mornings, watered kids literally every 10 minutes, checked in with the kids all the time "you guys okay? do we need a rest?". It was frustrating to the staff but we understood and dealt with it. Then one practice a kid with a congenital heart defect collapsed and we lost him. It was a morning practice that had only been underway for about 40 minutes. Fortunately for me, I was not at the practice because I was in a business meeting. In spite of being surrounded by a bunch of ambulance chasers the family did not attempt to hold the coaches or school responsible. Still, the HC and several AC's quit and never coached again. If I had seen that child laying there going out of the picture I don't know that I could have stepped back on the field. Heck, I saw a kid compound fracture his leg and it still haunts me.
One thing to add - there were comments from ignorant fools that blamed the coaches for this kid's death. Said we worked them too hard, it was too hot to be practicing in the heat of the day, etc.
It seems to me that the vast majority of these incidents fall into two categories. Either the player who died had an undiagnosed heart condition or the coaches exercised poor judgement. Deaths that fall in the first category are a tragedy and can't be prevented but the deaths that occur as a result of ignorant adults are inexcuseable and need to be prosecuted fully. That shouldn't be a controversial opinion. |
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Post by fkaboneyard on Aug 12, 2021 10:48:53 GMT -6
It's easy to take shots at a program with a dead kid when all you read is a two paragraph news article. Certainly, there are programs with dumb coaches that make dumb decisions and it's a miracle they don't lose more kids. There are also programs with conscientious coaches that happen to have a player with an unknown medical issue.
I was in a program where the HC was so worried about the effect that heat would have on kids that he made wholesale changes to practice structure when heat hit 90+ (which was nearly all the time in southern California) - moved practices to mornings, watered kids literally every 10 minutes, checked in with the kids all the time "you guys okay? do we need a rest?". It was frustrating to the staff but we understood and dealt with it. Then one practice a kid with a congenital heart defect collapsed and we lost him. It was a morning practice that had only been underway for about 40 minutes. Fortunately for me, I was not at the practice because I was in a business meeting. In spite of being surrounded by a bunch of ambulance chasers the family did not attempt to hold the coaches or school responsible. Still, the HC and several AC's quit and never coached again. If I had seen that child laying there going out of the picture I don't know that I could have stepped back on the field. Heck, I saw a kid compound fracture his leg and it still haunts me.
One thing to add - there were comments from ignorant fools that blamed the coaches for this kid's death. Said we worked them too hard, it was too hot to be practicing in the heat of the day, etc.
It seems to me that the vast majority of these incidents fall into two categories. Either the player who died had an undiagnosed heart condition or the coaches exercised poor judgement. Deaths that fall in the first category are a tragedy and can't be prevented but the deaths that occur as a result of ignorant adults are inexcuseable and need to be prosecuted fully. That shouldn't be a controversial opinion.
I don't disagree with that at all, just saying that not every news article is factual. I may be overly sensitive to this specific issue given my experience.
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Post by CS on Aug 12, 2021 18:54:06 GMT -6
It seems to me that the vast majority of these incidents fall into two categories. Either the player who died had an undiagnosed heart condition or the coaches exercised poor judgement. Deaths that fall in the first category are a tragedy and can't be prevented but the deaths that occur as a result of ignorant adults are inexcuseable and need to be prosecuted fully. That shouldn't be a controversial opinion.
I don't disagree with that at all, just saying that not every news article is factual. I may be overly sensitive to this specific issue given my experience.
I get where you are coming from. A kid at a school my mom taught at died from a heart condition no one knew about. I didn’t coach him I just knew the coaches and they were good ones. I saw some dingle berry using the article about that kid as an argument against those coaches on Twitter and he didn’t even know how the kid had died. He assumed it was from over working in the heat. Man I lit that dude up. Some people are just pieces of sh!t and a lot of them are journalists. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2021 19:19:19 GMT -6
I dont know how any of you can be normal after losing a player or a child. I joke with my mom, but its really not a joke, how she is who she is.
So my dad who would have been younger than I am now, already having beaten cancer twice, is home alone with three kids, all three would be my elder, one of them should be dead by this point, the another will suffer the same condition, but the third, doesnt have the condition. Not feeling well. My mom is out of town. My dad decides to treat with ice cream. Sitting on my dads lap takes a bite. Dies right there. On my dads lap. My sister is the first to know. My one sibling should be dead already at that point, my other sibling should be dead. All before I am an idea.
I admire those who can go on, My mom is a retired teacher/widow and I dont understand how she who she is, still alive, I am not sure I could.
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Post by blb on Aug 13, 2021 11:35:21 GMT -6
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Post by 19delta on Aug 13, 2021 13:53:09 GMT -6
6-3, 389lbs. I think what larrymoe said earlier in this thread probably applies. |
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Post by blb on Aug 13, 2021 14:12:47 GMT -6
6-3, 389lbs. I think what larrymoe said earlier in this thread probably applies. Yes. His dad is quoted as saying "He was a big kid, but he was a healthy big kid." You are NOT healthy when your BMI is 48.6, well above the standard for Morbid Obesity. The physician that "forgot" to sign a form for him to participate should have refused. Throw in Heat Index of 105 and you have recipe for disaster. The young man should not have been on the field. Totally preventable death. |
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Post by 19delta on Aug 13, 2021 15:42:45 GMT -6
6-3, 389lbs. I think what larrymoe said earlier in this thread probably applies. Yes. His dad is quoted as saying "He was a big kid, but he was a healthy big kid." You are NOT healthy when your BMI is 48.6, well above the standard for Morbid Obesity. The physician that "forgot" to sign a form for him to participate should have refused. Throw in Heat Index of 105 and you have recipe for disaster. The young man should not have been on the field. Totally preventable death. Here's the thing though... The coaches initially did not let the kid practice because he didn't have his paperwork in. But then the doctor signed off and the kid had all his forms in. I guess a better way to approach a situation like this would be to establish procedures for handling kids who show up for practice this badly out of shape. |
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Post by blb on Aug 13, 2021 15:56:11 GMT -6
Yes. His dad is quoted as saying "He was a big kid, but he was a healthy big kid." You are NOT healthy when your BMI is 48.6, well above the standard for Morbid Obesity. The physician that "forgot" to sign a form for him to participate should have refused. Throw in Heat Index of 105 and you have recipe for disaster. The young man should not have been on the field. Totally preventable death. Here's the thing though... The coaches initially did not let the kid practice because he didn't have his paperwork in. But then the doctor signed off and the kid had all his forms in. I guess a better way to approach a situation like this would be to establish procedures for handling kids who show up for practice this badly out of shape. Agree. Let me amend - with Heat Index of 105 the TEAM should not have been on the field, not just the young man that died. As to your point assuming the school has an ATC he/she could advise the coaches not to allow a morbidly obese kid to practice. Or the coaches could make the call themselves. |
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 13, 2021 16:15:25 GMT -6
Here's the thing though... The coaches initially did not let the kid practice because he didn't have his paperwork in. But then the doctor signed off and the kid had all his forms in. I guess a better way to approach a situation like this would be to establish procedures for handling kids who show up for practice this badly out of shape. Agree. Let me amend - with Heat Index of 105 the TEAM should not have been on the field, not just the young man that died. As to your point assuming the school has an ATC he/she could advise the coaches not to allow a morbidly obese player to practice. Or the coaches could make the call themselves. I would assume, having been there a few times this time of year, that Nebraska's a lot like Illinois. You set the "can't practice" feels like number somewhere around 100 and you aren't going to be getting too many practices in in early August. |
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Post by blb on Aug 13, 2021 16:51:27 GMT -6
Agree. Let me amend - with Heat Index of 105 the TEAM should not have been on the field, not just the young man that died. As to your point assuming the school has an ATC he/she could advise the coaches not to allow a morbidly obese player to practice. Or the coaches could make the call themselves. I would assume, having been there a few times this time of year, that Nebraska's a lot like Illinois. You set the "can't practice" feels like number somewhere around 100 and you aren't going to be getting too many practices in in early August. Have to practice early AM (7 to 9 for ex.) and-or evening to dusk then. |
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Post by CS on Aug 13, 2021 17:02:33 GMT -6
We are required to use a wet bulb thermometer here. Depending on the reading it limits the length of practice and how often we have to take breaks or whether we can be outside at all. The other day we had to go in the field-house in the middle of practice for a cool off before we were able to start practice again.
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 13, 2021 17:37:52 GMT -6
I would assume, having been there a few times this time of year, that Nebraska's a lot like Illinois. You set the "can't practice" feels like number somewhere around 100 and you aren't going to be getting too many practices in in early August. Have to practice early AM (7 to 9 for ex.) and-or evening to dusk then. At 7am the feels like in Central Illinois was 95 Thursday morning. At 11 pm it was 96 Wednesday night. The dew point Wednesday night was 82 (I don't remember seeing it in the 80s around here before). This past week has not been a good one to talk about avoiding heat around here. And I'm not trying to be overly dickish, just pointing out that at some point, you've got to get over the weather and just get it done. I have no idea how people live in Florida. None. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 17:44:10 GMT -6
Have to practice early AM (7 to 9 for ex.) and-or evening to dusk then. At 7am the feels like in Central Illinois was 95 Thursday morning. At 11 pm it was 96 Wednesday night. The dew point Wednesday night was 82 (I don't remember seeing it in the 80s around here before). This past week has not been a good one to talk about avoiding heat around here. And I'm not trying to be overly dickish, just pointing out that at some point, you've got to get over the weather and just get it done. I have no idea how people live in Florida. None. We do it at 6 am at least once a week, and with weather, different scenarios, possibly more. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 13, 2021 18:11:17 GMT -6
I would assume, having been there a few times this time of year, that Nebraska's a lot like Illinois. You set the "can't practice" feels like number somewhere around 100 and you aren't going to be getting too many practices in in early August. Have to practice early AM (7 to 9 for ex.) and-or evening to dusk then. Also keep in mind coach, that in some places, school has been in session for more than a week, which makes practice times a bit more problematic. |
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Post by teachcoach on Aug 14, 2021 14:56:46 GMT -6
One of the Illinois state track meets (3 classes) was delayed until the evening because of the wet bulb reading. Our sectional for track was on the edge for a delay because of the wet bulb. I am not sure how many schools have access to it, but it seems like a reasonable metric. And track meets are the most fit kids you will find.
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