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Post by fantom on Jun 3, 2021 11:57:51 GMT -6
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Post by 19delta on Jun 3, 2021 12:00:16 GMT -6
The school is apparently a historical power in Ohio high school football. Looking at Wattley's previous job experience, he has never held any kind of certified staff position in a public school. His degree is not really applicable to working in a public school. My guess is that he was hired essentially to be the head football coach and the "athletic academic liaison" position was a sweetener. So you are probably right. He's not just a study hall supervisor. Instead he's a GLORIFIED study hall supervisor.  |
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Post by olliebaba14 on Jun 3, 2021 12:47:33 GMT -6
Sickening. Unfortunately there are too many people in the world like this
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Post by fkaboneyard on Jun 3, 2021 12:54:28 GMT -6
I think it's an important distinction but no one will care what the intention was.
I don't know many teenage boys who would consider eating a whole pizza to be punishment.
The article said that the kid thought that the pizza appeared to be "spoiled". That said, I'm in agreement, I know most football players would be fine with eating a day old pizza. And the linemen would pretty much without exception consider it punishment if they were not allowed to eat it.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 3, 2021 13:04:37 GMT -6
I don't know many teenage boys who would consider eating a whole pizza to be punishment.
The article said that the kid thought that the pizza appeared to be "spoiled". That said, I'm in agreement, I know most football players would be fine with eating a day old pizza. And the linemen would pretty much without exception consider it punishment if they were not allowed to eat it.
"spoiled" as in having been tainted by the non kosher products throughout the pizza right? I am 99% sure that this was not a case of "Hey, lets punish the Jewish kid with something specifically designed to violate his religious tenants" It probably went down like the scene from Full Metal Jacket with Private Pyle and the Donut. The kid missed, and the coaches were going to try some foolish reverse peer pressure punishment--but then the kid made a fool of all of them and said "Coach, can't eat this- non kosher foods" which probably enraged the coaches a bit. And I am pretty sure that there may be some other issues at play too (maybe the kid was habitually missing, maybe the kid had an attitude etc. that led to the bizarre decision to do this.) But that doesn't really matter here any more than it matters if a drunk driver didn't mean to kill a family while driving under the influence. They still did. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2021 13:27:58 GMT -6
Yeah I saw that. It’s so hard to believe that 8 grown men were there and not one looked around and thought that was the dumbest thing ever. Sadly when you look at coaching scandals (high school or college) there are always the assistants who watch and choose to do nothing. With so much emphasis placed on loyalty im coaching circles, this doesn’t surprise me. How often have college assistant coaches been blackballed, or at least fired, for blowing a whistle? How many threads on here are started over “disloyal” assistants for “backstabbing” or “undermining” the HFC? It sounds like this is a big time program, which means the HC probably has a lot of stroke. That doesn’t excuse it, but it might explain it. It is still incredibly spineless, crazy, and stupid, though. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2021 13:38:06 GMT -6
At least no body shots of maple syrup were involved...
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Post by blb on Jun 3, 2021 13:50:55 GMT -6
Apparently at a powerhouse like McKinley "voluntary" workouts aren't optional.
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Post by larrymoe on Jun 3, 2021 14:07:59 GMT -6
Religious considerations aside, I can't believe we still have adult human beings who think something this stupid is a good idea.
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Post by blb on Jun 3, 2021 14:19:31 GMT -6
Religious considerations aside, I can't believe we still have adult human beings who think something this stupid is a good idea. I think such things are more apt to happen when you have coaches who are not trained, professional educators such as the McKinley HC. I suspect some if not most of his assistants aren't teachers, either. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2021 14:44:59 GMT -6
Religious considerations aside, I can't believe we still have adult human beings who think something this stupid is a good idea. I think such things are more apt to happen when you have coaches who are not trained, professional educators such as the McKinley HC. I suspect some if not most of his assistants aren't teachers, either. You mean like probst? |
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Post by blb on Jun 3, 2021 14:53:34 GMT -6
I think such things are more apt to happen when you have coaches who are not trained, professional educators such as the McKinley HC. I suspect some if not most of his assistants aren't teachers, either. You mean like probst? Is Probst a teacher? If you read carefully (and can comprehend) I said MORE apt to happen, not ONLY happen with untrained non-professionals. Anyway Probst may be one exception that proves the rule. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2021 15:22:28 GMT -6
Is Probst a teacher? If you read closely (and can comprehend) I said MORE apt to happen, not ONLY happen with untrained non-professionals. Anyway Probst may be one exception that proves the rule. 🙄😜 |
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Post by blb on Jun 3, 2021 15:27:23 GMT -6
Is Probst a teacher? If you read closely (and can comprehend) I said MORE apt to happen, not ONLY happen with untrained non-professionals. Anyway Probst may be one exception that proves the rule. 🙄😜 Now THAT'S a mature response. There you go again. Great contribution to the thread. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2021 15:29:15 GMT -6
Now THAT'S a mature response. There you go again. Great contribution to the thread. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄 |
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Post by blb on Jun 3, 2021 16:13:44 GMT -6
Now THAT'S a mature response. There you go again. Great contribution to the thread. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄 You have the mentality (and communication skills) of a 7th grader. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2021 16:26:40 GMT -6
You have the mentality (and communication skills) of a 7th grader. ok. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Jun 3, 2021 18:34:07 GMT -6
I don't have anything to add or comment on the particulars... but I do say this; I really having a hard time wrapping my head around this whole thing and it's bugging the crap out of me. 1- I get the 'peer punishment' thing, I.E. player A doesn't mind/respond to being punished for whatever reason, but player A might mind seeing his buddies having to pay for his penalty. This is a debatable course of reasoning as a coach, but I get it. Regardless this particular line of thought isn't my thorn. 2- The reporting on the two posted link present a two different points of view, but still leave out a lot of the minutiae that would make what is/has happed more understandable. So historical background might be in play here, or rather the culture of the school/community might fill in some of the gaps as to if this type of thing was in place. I'm not excusing what happened, just that often things are done b/c... that's how things HAVE been done. 3- The two links didn't clarify if this MIGHT be a religious/racial thing, and if that is/can be shown the school district is going to write a check with many zeros at the end. 4- So considering there might be more to the story.... REGARDLESS I just can't fathom in any way, shape, or form as a coach thinking, "I need to punish player A by making him eat a pizza". Don't get me wrong, I done some stupid punishments before, but usually it was the "let's take a physical skill to the extreme'' type of thing. I just don't know if I could fathom the said reasoning that would come from the coach trying to explain this. I'm sitting here trying really hard to even imagine what that conversation would be like; I mean even if the coach was honest and forthcoming, I don't know of any explanation that I wouldn't reply with, "You have got to be the biggest forking idiot I've even seen". What exactly would the coach expect from a 'positive' response?  ? |
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Post by coachjm on Jun 3, 2021 19:02:17 GMT -6
I'm baffled.... Although I know there is certainly stupid people in our world that do stupid things, and certainly in our profession there are some stupid people....
However, how are you "smart enough" and make good enough decisions as a leader and educator to be named the head football coach at Canton McKinley HS in a 90K a year gig and still make this decision....
I'm curious on his background and where he was mentored? Certainly, I have made my share of mistakes as a coach and leader but this is much greater then a poor decision..... I certainly hope there is more to the story because on the surface this to me is about as bad as it gets...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2021 19:21:47 GMT -6
I'm baffled.... Although I know there is certainly stupid people in our world that do stupid things, and certainly in our profession there are some stupid people.... However, how are you "smart enough" and make good enough decisions as a leader and educator to be named the head football coach at Canton McKinley HS in a 90K a year gig and still make this decision.... I'm curious on his background and where he was mentored? Certainly, I have made my share of mistakes as a coach and leader but this is much greater then a poor decision..... I certainly hope there is more to the story because on the surface this to me is about as bad as it gets... The elite jobs in this state, you have no shot if you haven’t won multiple state...without knowing the man or the job I suggest admin has different priorities. |
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Post by wingtol on Jun 3, 2021 19:26:30 GMT -6
The school is apparently a historical power in Ohio high school football. Looking at Wattley's previous job experience, he has never held any kind of certified staff position in a public school. His degree is not really applicable to working in a public school. My guess is that he was hired essentially to be the head football coach and the "athletic academic liaison" position was a sweetener. So you are probably right. He's not just a study hall supervisor. Instead he's a GLORIFIED study hall supervisor. The school is literally connected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. They play their home games at the hall of fame field so their is a ton of tradition there. Was just there a few weeks ago and they take it pretty serious. Thankfully they did the right thing tonight and fired the whole coaching staff, sometimes at a school with that type of history and tradition people don’t always do the right thing like their board did tonight. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 3, 2021 21:15:13 GMT -6
So, taking the pork/religion out of it--should the staff have been fired just for berating and humiliating a student for missing a voluntary work out?
I say yes.
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Post by blb on Jun 4, 2021 4:45:18 GMT -6
I'm baffled.... Although I know there is certainly stupid people in our world that do stupid things, and certainly in our profession there are some stupid people.... However, how are you "smart enough" and make good enough decisions as a leader and educator to be named the head football coach at Canton McKinley HS in a 90K a year gig and still make this decision.... I'm curious on his background and where he was mentored? Certainly, I have made my share of mistakes as a coach and leader but this is much greater then a poor decision..... I certainly hope there is more to the story because on the surface this to me is about as bad as it gets... posted a link to HC's bio on Page 1 of this thread. |
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Post by 19delta on Jun 4, 2021 5:00:44 GMT -6
So, taking the pork/religion out of it--should the staff have been fired just for berating and humiliating a student for missing a voluntary work out? I say yes. Agreed. |
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Post by newhope on Jun 4, 2021 5:18:42 GMT -6
Religious considerations aside, I can't believe we still have adult human beings who think something this stupid is a good idea. I think such things are more apt to happen when you have coaches who are not trained, professional educators such as the McKinley HC. I suspect some if not most of his assistants aren't teachers, either. Not that trained professional educators can't do stupid stuff, but it has been my experience that they are much more aware of where the boundaries need to be. I also think that the word "professional" comes into play. There are coaches out there, including HCs and including HCs who win lots of games who really don't treat the job as a profession--their concern is more wrapped around ego and anything in order to win. I seem to be seeing a whole lot more of the "Friday Night Tykes" type coaches moving into high school coaching, especially as it becomes more and more difficult to fill coaching spots with educators as more and more educators leave the profession. I'm wondering how many of the 8 involved here are actually educators and not "hired guns". Again, don't know what's going on in your states, but I'm seeing lots of hires connected to recruiting. |
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Post by groundchuck on Jun 4, 2021 5:20:16 GMT -6
I think this coach woke up in the morning and said "how can I get fired today?"
At least he didn't bring syrup.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 4, 2021 7:41:36 GMT -6
I think such things are more apt to happen when you have coaches who are not trained, professional educators such as the McKinley HC. I suspect some if not most of his assistants aren't teachers, either. Not that trained professional educators can't do stupid stuff, but it has been my experience that they are much more aware of where the boundaries need to be. I also think that the word "professional" comes into play. There are coaches out there, including HCs and including HCs who win lots of games who really don't treat the job as a profession--their concern is more wrapped around ego and anything in order to win. I seem to be seeing a whole lot more of the "Friday Night Tykes" type coaches moving into high school coaching, especially as it becomes more and more difficult to fill coaching spots with educators as more and more educators leave the profession. I'm wondering how many of the 8 involved here are actually educators and not "hired guns". Again, don't know what's going on in your states, but I'm seeing lots of hires connected to recruiting. I agree. Given that the HC was not a certificated faculty member (based on his now deleted bio) I am curious how many, if any, were. Spending a few minutes using online search engines, It looks like all spend a great deal of time posting on twitter (which would disqualify them if I were king of the world LOL). One seems to be quite fond of John Cena, so there is that. I found that one had a linked in profile saying he was a PE teacher at St. Thomas Aquinas through March of 2018 (while also stating he was coaching at Mckinley since 2017 and was OC/qb coach). Another has a zoom info page that says he is "Safety and Security". (Not director of, not head of...it states he is "safety and security". His twitter acct says he is the Director of Player Personnel and Linebacker coach. Also of note, apparently Wattley (the HC) was the 4th HC of this program in the last 8 years or so. This seems to support the idea that when football is no longer an extra curricular extension of the school, but instead its own entity and a source for other people to try define themselves by the accomplishments of others...it can lead to foolish outcomes. As I mentioned earlier, my biggest concern is that had this not been a non kosher pizza, had there not been any religious issues involved here, this would not have had the same outcome. I think that is 100% wrong. The religious issue is what is driving the stories, as the headlines can lead readers /viewers to think that the primary action here was coaches persecuting a religion. I do not believe that was the case at all. That was just happenstance. |
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Post by 19delta on Jun 4, 2021 8:39:49 GMT -6
I found that one had a linked in profile saying he was a PE teacher at St. Thomas Aquinas through March of 2018 (while also stating he was coaching at Mckinley since 2017 and was OC/qb coach). Another has a zoom info page that says he is "Safety and Security". (Not director of, not head of...it states he is "safety and security". His twitter acct says he is the Director of Player Personnel and Linebacker coach. It's not a job. It's a lifestyle.  |
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Post by newhope on Jun 4, 2021 8:50:45 GMT -6
Not that trained professional educators can't do stupid stuff, but it has been my experience that they are much more aware of where the boundaries need to be. I also think that the word "professional" comes into play. There are coaches out there, including HCs and including HCs who win lots of games who really don't treat the job as a profession--their concern is more wrapped around ego and anything in order to win. I seem to be seeing a whole lot more of the "Friday Night Tykes" type coaches moving into high school coaching, especially as it becomes more and more difficult to fill coaching spots with educators as more and more educators leave the profession. I'm wondering how many of the 8 involved here are actually educators and not "hired guns". Again, don't know what's going on in your states, but I'm seeing lots of hires connected to recruiting. I agree. Given that the HC was not a certificated faculty member (based on his now deleted bio) I am curious how many, if any, were. Spending a few minutes using online search engines, It looks like all spend a great deal of time posting on twitter (which would disqualify them if I were king of the world LOL). One seems to be quite fond of John Cena, so there is that. I found that one had a linked in profile saying he was a PE teacher at St. Thomas Aquinas through March of 2018 (while also stating he was coaching at Mckinley since 2017 and was OC/qb coach). Another has a zoom info page that says he is "Safety and Security". (Not director of, not head of...it states he is "safety and security". His twitter acct says he is the Director of Player Personnel and Linebacker coach. Also of note, apparently Wattley (the HC) was the 4th HC of this program in the last 8 years or so. This seems to support the idea that when football is no longer an extra curricular extension of the school, but instead its own entity and a source for other people to try define themselves by the accomplishments of others...it can lead to foolish outcomes. As I mentioned earlier, my biggest concern is that had this not been a non kosher pizza, had there not been any religious issues involved here, this would not have had the same outcome. I think that is 100% wrong. The religious issue is what is driving the stories, as the headlines can lead readers /viewers to think that the primary action here was coaches persecuting a religion. I do not believe that was the case at all. That was just happenstance. I don't believe they did it because of religion, but more than one article I read said the kid told them numerous times that he could not eat it for religious reasons. Now, maybe they don't do pre-game meals, etc, but if you do any thing at all where you are feeding kids (even if it's pizza), you gotta know your team well enough to know which kids have religious restrictions. For example, I know not to try to take my Muslim players to a pig pickin' . These guys just didn't care. This wasn't coaching, this was about humiliation. Maybe they wouldn't have gotten fired if religion hadn't come into play---but the kid told them. If there was no religious issue, I think we're on the same page that it was still a very stupid thing to do. Whether or not they got fired over it in that circumstance would probably depend on a lot of other factors (previous incidents, for example), but they would at least be told anything else and they're out the door. |
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Post by fantom on Jun 4, 2021 8:58:43 GMT -6
I agree. Given that the HC was not a certificated faculty member (based on his now deleted bio) I am curious how many, if any, were. Spending a few minutes using online search engines, It looks like all spend a great deal of time posting on twitter (which would disqualify them if I were king of the world LOL). One seems to be quite fond of John Cena, so there is that. I found that one had a linked in profile saying he was a PE teacher at St. Thomas Aquinas through March of 2018 (while also stating he was coaching at Mckinley since 2017 and was OC/qb coach). Another has a zoom info page that says he is "Safety and Security". (Not director of, not head of...it states he is "safety and security". His twitter acct says he is the Director of Player Personnel and Linebacker coach. Also of note, apparently Wattley (the HC) was the 4th HC of this program in the last 8 years or so. This seems to support the idea that when football is no longer an extra curricular extension of the school, but instead its own entity and a source for other people to try define themselves by the accomplishments of others...it can lead to foolish outcomes. As I mentioned earlier, my biggest concern is that had this not been a non kosher pizza, had there not been any religious issues involved here, this would not have had the same outcome. I think that is 100% wrong. The religious issue is what is driving the stories, as the headlines can lead readers /viewers to think that the primary action here was coaches persecuting a religion. I do not believe that was the case at all. That was just happenstance. I don't believe they did it because of religion, but more than one article I read said the kid told them numerous times that he could not eat it for religious reasons. Now, maybe they don't do pre-game meals, etc, but if you do any thing at all where you are feeding kids (even if it's pizza), you gotta know your team well enough to know which kids have religious restrictions. For example, I know not to try to take my Muslim players to a pig pickin' . These guys just didn't care. This wasn't coaching, this was about humiliation. Maybe they wouldn't have gotten fired if religion hadn't come into play---but the kid told them. If there was no religious issue, I think we're on the same page that it was still a very stupid thing to do. Whether or not they got fired over it in that circumstance would probably depend on a lot of other factors (previous incidents, for example), but they would at least be told anything else and they're out the door. The bottom line is that there's no angle from which you can look at this without concluding that it was a really stupid idea. |
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