mc140
Sophomore Member
Posts: 220
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Ethics
Jan 21, 2021 0:10:59 GMT -6
Post by mc140 on Jan 21, 2021 0:10:59 GMT -6
1. Cheating but should be caught by refs
2. Same as 1
3. We have a head coach in our conference that yells "poison" at the opposing returner every kick off. He also has known to change numbers and have injured kids of similar build stand on sidelines with the good players number on.
4. I actually coach our kids to stop blocking once a kid breaks one. It has been at least 7 years since we had a TD called back due to a dumb penalty when a kid was in open field.
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Ethics
Jan 23, 2021 18:15:25 GMT -6
Post by bobgoodman on Jan 23, 2021 18:15:25 GMT -6
Under what rule would he flag it? There is the rule about deceit. It’s the same one that makes the “wrong ball” play illegal. He try to say that my TE had given himself up so he wasn’t part of the play anymore. I never thought about that. It might be a safety issue. |
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Ethics
Jan 23, 2021 18:23:33 GMT -6
Post by bobgoodman on Jan 23, 2021 18:23:33 GMT -6
Okay, to put into play the rationale of blockandtackle and try to create some agreed upon perimeters, I'll throw this out. Should/Can/Do we simply place the rules into 2 broad categories? Construct 1: Any rule that is put into place to protect/prevent a player from unnecessary injury/harm. Construct 2: Any rule that is put into place to promote/prohibit any 'unfair' play. Construct 1 is the realm, I would say, almost all of us agree on. IE we could possibly debate the horse collar penalty, but couldn't debate the spearing penalty. These are rules/penalties that evolve out of things that were detrimental to the game or the health of players. Except, football itself is unnecessary and can cause injury. Many aspects of the game were legal for generations even after they were recognized to be more dangerous than the average part of the game. There'll always be a "most dangerous move/procedure in the game". At any time in history, you could get people to agree that there should be rules to protect players against unnecessary injury, and then at some later time changes are made or considered because the rules that were previously agreed to protect players against unnecessary injury were later agreed so to subject players to unnecessary injury. |
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Post by fantom on Jan 23, 2021 18:32:01 GMT -6
4. Last one, saw a team that taught their defenders - when the opponents broke away on a big play, to get in front of a blocker and stop thereby getting a clipping call. Is it any different than getting a charge call in basketball? Genius or unethical? Sounds like a great way to get a break during pursuit drill: "Coach, I was trying to draw a clipping penalty". |
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 23, 2021 18:49:36 GMT -6
4. Last one, saw a team that taught their defenders - when the opponents broke away on a big play, to get in front of a blocker and stop thereby getting a clipping call. Is it any different than getting a charge call in basketball? Genius or unethical? Sounds like a great way to get a break during pursuit drill: "Coach, I was trying to draw a clipping penalty". Pursuit drills are a waste of time unless used as conditioning. |
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Ethics
Jan 23, 2021 21:17:23 GMT -6
Post by bobgoodman on Jan 23, 2021 21:17:23 GMT -6
Sounds like a great way to get a break during pursuit drill: "Coach, I was trying to draw a clipping penalty". Pursuit drills are a waste of time unless used as conditioning. Players don't learn good angles from them? |
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Ethics
Jan 24, 2021 7:25:29 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by larrymoe on Jan 24, 2021 7:25:29 GMT -6
Pursuit drills are a waste of time unless used as conditioning. Players don't learn good angles from them? No. Not at all. Besides, you aren't ever going to see 6/11ths of your defense ever be able to chase down someone outside to ever make a play even if they take a fantastic angle. Check out some Chuck Martin while he was HC at Grand Valley State on force players and near hip pursuit. |
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Post by bulldogsdc on Jan 25, 2021 8:54:40 GMT -6
Jumping offsides on a 2nd and 1 before the 2 min warning to preserve time..........
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Ethics
Jan 25, 2021 9:23:11 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by carookie on Jan 25, 2021 9:23:11 GMT -6
Jumping offsides on a 2nd and 1 before the 2 min warning to preserve time.......... I was telling my son they needed to do that, and am glad they did, as it was good thinking. I dont think its “unethical” as they committed the penalty openly and were given the prescribed punishment. |
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Post by veerman on Jan 25, 2021 9:36:58 GMT -6
Jumping offsides on a 2nd and 1 before the 2 min warning to preserve time.......... I was telling my son they needed to do that, and am glad they did, as it was good thinking. I dont think its “unethical” as they committed the penalty openly and were given the prescribed punishment. The only reason why the 2 min warning was in play was a bad play by the Bucs. I thought they should have also declined the penalty and kept it 2 & 1 as well. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Ethics
Jan 25, 2021 9:40:16 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 9:40:16 GMT -6
I thought one team all but tried to give it away, and another squandered opportunity after opportunity. Long before that time out.
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Ethics
Jan 25, 2021 9:50:04 GMT -6
Post by silkyice on Jan 25, 2021 9:50:04 GMT -6
4. when the opponents broke away on a big play, to get in front of a blocker and stop thereby getting a clipping call. Is it any DIFFERENT than getting a charge call in basketball? Yes. Taking a charge is good clean fundamental basketball. You have good defensive position and the offensive guy tries to go through you. Is it any different than a complete bs flop while attempting to take a charge? No. But that is now a penalty in basketball, so... |
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Ethics
Jan 25, 2021 13:03:21 GMT -6
Post by MICoach on Jan 25, 2021 13:03:21 GMT -6
All of your examples are unethical, IMO.
The only one I'd hesitate on is the playing of ineligible players - if the coaches know they're doing it then obviously that's an issue, but I've heard of a couple examples where it was lost somewhere in the administration. When I was a kid we had a rival team have to forfeit like six wins because they had a transfer who played on the field goal team (could've been other special teams but thats how I remember it) without sitting out the requesite amount of time.
Honestly I felt bad for them but if you don't make it a black and white rule then you're asking for people to purposely aim for the grey area.
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Ethics
Jan 25, 2021 13:10:55 GMT -6
Post by bulldogsdc on Jan 25, 2021 13:10:55 GMT -6
I was telling my son they needed to do that, and am glad they did, as it was good thinking. I dont think its “unethical” as they committed the penalty openly and were given the prescribed punishment. The only reason why the 2 min warning was in play was a bad play by the Bucs. I thought they should have also declined the penalty and kept it 2 & 1 as well. I thought the same thing, I then thought that the D could just jump offsides again and then they could decline again for infinity. |
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Ethics
Jan 25, 2021 13:20:36 GMT -6
Post by fantom on Jan 25, 2021 13:20:36 GMT -6
All of your examples are unethical, IMO. The only one I'd hesitate on is the playing of ineligible players - if the coaches know they're doing it then obviously that's an issue, but I've heard of a couple examples where it was lost somewhere in the administration. When I was a kid we had a rival team have to forfeit like six wins because they had a transfer who played on the field goal team (could've been other special teams but thats how I remember it) without sitting out the requesite amount of time. Honestly I felt bad for them but if you don't make it a black and white rule then you're asking for people to purposely aim for the grey area. In our area a team had to forfeit most of their games for playing an ineligible player. Under the rules at the time a kid could only play in ten games. This team used their JV QB as the holder on PATs. Of course, they were turned in by the father of the JV #2 QB. The rule's been changed in such a way that this wouldn't be a problem now. |
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Ethics
Jan 25, 2021 15:33:20 GMT -6
Post by fkaboneyard on Jan 25, 2021 15:33:20 GMT -6
All of your examples are unethical, IMO. The only one I'd hesitate on is the playing of ineligible players - if the coaches know they're doing it then obviously that's an issue, but I've heard of a couple examples where it was lost somewhere in the administration. When I was a kid we had a rival team have to forfeit like six wins because they had a transfer who played on the field goal team (could've been other special teams but thats how I remember it) without sitting out the requesite amount of time. Honestly I felt bad for them but if you don't make it a black and white rule then you're asking for people to purposely aim for the grey area.
I would suggest that if a coach is so unfocused that he doesn't know who is eligible then that is unethical. It's a terrible deal for the kids but every time a program gets zapped for having an ineligible player the coaches go, "we didn't know, the admin told us the kid was good to go." So a lot of them roll the dice. Most of the time they win (given how terrible CIF is at actually following up on this stuff), sometimes they get burned.
There is a program nearby that played an ineligible kid a few years back. They rolled through everybody and then their playoff opponent dropped a dime on them. The offending program then "self reported", had a bunch of wins vacated and lost their playoff spot. The coach blamed the admin and the admin blamed the kid. Meanwhile, the principal was a guy that was falsifying grades (including his own daughter's) so that the swim team would be eligible. I'm probably getting off in to the weeds here but my point stands - it is unethical for an ineligible kid to play, whether it's intentional or not.
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Ethics
Mar 16, 2021 8:57:41 GMT -6
Post by newhope on Mar 16, 2021 8:57:41 GMT -6
Many, many years ago---back in the early 70s, I asked a legendary coach what he ran on the goal line since he was so successful down there. 6-3-3 was his answer. I looked at him. He said "I ain't kidding, son"...they never catch you and what's the punishment if they do?"
As to the OP's question: all are unethical
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