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Post by vicvinegar on Sept 28, 2020 11:15:30 GMT -6
So I am currently a position coach, hoping to become a DC in the near future. However there is a school that I would like to apply for the HC position when it becomes available again (it does every 2-5 years).
So a background on the program. They are perennial LOSERS! They have 32 wins in the last 30 seasons. Only 2 winning seasons in the schools 50 year history. Last season, there was a running clock in 7/10 of their games. The school is located in a poor rural area. Nearest city is an hour away. Enrollment is slightly over 600. It does not appear that it is a situation where all the athletes are flocking to other sports either. Only a few good seasons in basketball and an average baseball program. On average, it appears there is around 25-30 players on the team. I would bet that is including freshmen.
I'm sure some are asking why in the world would you want to take this job. So for a couple reasons. First, the schedule. The conference has two really strong teams. The rest are at best average. A few only chance for a win is against this program. The out of conference schedule is very favorable. It's the only show in town in town. There is no worries about competing with other schools for athletes. Also, considering their success, there is decent attendance to the games. I've watched highlights on max preps and there are a lot more fans than I expected. Also, there are a few things that I believe could be quick fixes. Watching those highlights, technique is awful. They do not run a gap sound defense. There are players walking on the field between the whistle. These are things I can fix and quickly! Lastly, who wouldn't want to be the coach to turn this program around.
A few thoughts on how I would turn the program around. Obviously it goes a little more in-depth that this.
1) Get buy-in from the players. Create a leadership council that consist of two players from each class. This is the teams voice for when it comes to making team decisions. Obviously I make the final decision, but it would give them some ownership.
2) Recruit, Recruit and recruit some more. You have to grow your numbers. I feel like having given some ownership to current players, this will cause them to help you recruit even harder. Also, you have to try to create energy around the program. I realize this would not be easy. But start with t-shirts and stuff.
3)Keep it simple. Defensively, I would run a 4-4 cover 3 to begin. Stop the run and don't allow big plays. By keeping the playbook limited, it would allow us to focus on technique and tackling. I would allow the OC to run anything they want. Only stipulation is, they can't snap the ball until 3 seconds or less is on the play clock. I want to shorten games and keep it to where we have a fighting chance at the end. I don't want running clocks at the end of games, which has been the norm. Win or lose, I want kids to believe/ see that we are improving.
Questions for you.
1) I'm a Defensive guy. Always have been. What do I do if I'm going into the season and still can't find an OC. I know this is a common question, but how do I improve a staff that in all likelihood needs to be completed rebuilt?
2) Raising funds in a poor, rural community.
3) Lastly, I know several will say "I'd never accept this job." Just entertain me for a moment, pretend that for some strange reason you did. How would you make this a competitive program.
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Post by breakerdog on Sept 28, 2020 11:20:06 GMT -6
#1- Weight Room
#2- Staff
#3- Recruit athletes
#4- Be different scheme wise
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Post by s73 on Sept 28, 2020 11:53:05 GMT -6
So I am currently a position coach, hoping to become a DC in the near future. However there is a school that I would like to apply for the HC position when it becomes available again (it does every 2-5 years). So a background on the program. They are perennial LOSERS! They have 32 wins in the last 30 seasons. Only 2 winning seasons in the schools 50 year history. Last season, there was a running clock in 7/10 of their games. The school is located in a poor rural area. Nearest city is an hour away. Enrollment is slightly over 600. It does not appear that it is a situation where all the athletes are flocking to other sports either. Only a few good seasons in basketball and an average baseball program. On average, it appears there is around 25-30 players on the team. I would bet that is including freshmen. I'm sure some are asking why in the world would you want to take this job. So for a couple reasons. First, the schedule. The conference has two really strong teams. The rest are at best average. A few only chance for a win is against this program. The out of conference schedule is very favorable. It's the only show in town in town. There is no worries about competing with other schools for athletes. Also, considering their success, there is decent attendance to the games. I've watched highlights on max preps and there are a lot more fans than I expected. Also, there are a few things that I believe could be quick fixes. Watching those highlights, technique is awful. They do not run a gap sound defense. There are players walking on the field between the whistle. These are things I can fix and quickly! Lastly, who wouldn't want to be the coach to turn this program around. A few thoughts on how I would turn the program around. Obviously it goes a little more in-depth that this. 1) Get buy-in from the players. Create a leadership council that consist of two players from each class. This is the teams voice for when it comes to making team decisions. Obviously I make the final decision, but it would give them some ownership. 2) Recruit, Recruit and recruit some more. You have to grow your numbers. I feel like having given some ownership to current players, this will cause them to help you recruit even harder. Also, you have to try to create energy around the program. I realize this would not be easy. But start with t-shirts and stuff. 3)Keep it simple. Defensively, I would run a 4-4 cover 3 to begin. Stop the run and don't allow big plays. By keeping the playbook limited, it would allow us to focus on technique and tackling. I would allow the OC to run anything they want. Only stipulation is, they can't snap the ball until 3 seconds or less is on the play clock. I want to shorten games and keep it to where we have a fighting chance at the end. I don't want running clocks at the end of games, which has been the norm. Win or lose, I want kids to believe/ see that we are improving. Questions for you. 1) I'm a Defensive guy. Always have been. What do I do if I'm going into the season and still can't find an OC. I know this is a common question, but how do I improve a staff that in all likelihood needs to be completed rebuilt? 2) Raising funds in a poor, rural community. 3) Lastly, I know several will say "I'd never accept this job." Just entertain me for a moment, pretend that for some strange reason you did. How would you make this a competitive program. So....I took over a similar situation in 2003. Team had only won 8 games in 7 seasons and not a single win in the past 3 seasons. Also smallest school in conference by far. Why did I take it over? B/c I wanted to be a HC & the guy I was working for wasn't going anywhere anytime soon. W/o HC expereince usually you have to take over for a successful retiree who names you their heir, or you gotta take a tough job. Having said that. I dii the following: 1 - Got an incoming list of all fresh and called all of them. 2- Set a summer camp w/ minimal cost to encourage attendance. 3 - Try to get a staff you can trust & is WILLING to ACCEPT your vision. Don't have to be all stars, just have to be willing team players w/ some work ethic. 4- Expect some disappointment. They will not GET IT right away. 5 - Tied in w/ #4. Modify your standards some. You can't get to play off caliber immediately. It's a process. If you kick some dude off the team right away, they won't see it as "this guy is serious, I want to play for him". they will see it as "this guys unfair" b/c they probably haven't learned the expectations that legit programs have & it will take time. Not saying you don't have expecatitons but they must build gradually. 6 - Have a clear as day vision & stick to it. Know what you're going to do on O & D and do it well. it doesn't have to be earth shattering stuff, it's not necessarily what you do but how well you do it. When I took over we won 1 game the 1st year & it was like a SB party b/c they hadn't won in so long. next year we won 2 & it was a big deal b/c they hadn't won more than once in a season in almost a decade. next year we won 4 & got knocked out of a play off berth on the last play of the season. Next season we went to play off's for 1st time in 16 years & won the only play off game in school history. The follwoing week we lost to eventual state champs by a TD. After that I took over a start up program closer to home and kind of emulated the same process. We are not world beaters but average a play off berth about every other season. Haven't gotten to the next level yet but trying. Always remember TALENT plays a HUGE role. Don't go down the rabbit hole of trying to find "magic bullets" b/c you prob shoot yourself in the foot. Sorry if this came off preachy, but I'm pretty passionate about the subject since literally my only HC experience is taking over a perennial loser and starting program from scratch at a new school. Good Luck! |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 28, 2020 12:35:18 GMT -6
I agree with everything that's been pointed out and I cannot emphasize getting a decent staff together. This will absolutely make or break you. Guys that are onboard with what you're doing, that take their jobs seriously (i.e. understand the time commitment), and are willing to learn and develop.
I wouldn't take the job if I couldn't get this in the works.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 12:39:37 GMT -6
I’ve coached in a place that sounds a lot like this.
First off... remember that you’re not going to really be able to “recruit” too much. The other coaches who have been there have tried to recruit. You may be able to get numbers up or get a couple more athletic kids out, but what you see on the sideline now is basically what you’re going to be working with. It’s not like you’ll ever convince a stud QB from a neighboring school into transferring in because you run facemelter. The real test of your program building skills is going to revolve around the weight room and weight room culture.
Second... you need to be prepared for the idea that you are the only football guy on staff. You may be able to get a former player, dad, volunteer, or teacher out, but they will likely know little about football. If you can get admin to hire a coach for you, that would be great, but don’t hold your breath. Go into this with the expectation that you will be the only reliable, knowledgeable coach and build from there. Offensively, that means to pick something simple that you know how to coach. Something basic, sound, and easy to teach with few plays like a minimalist wing-T or double wing might be a good start. Low numbers mean your players will have to be cross trained to play multiple spots on each side of the ball.
Fundraising can be brutal because, especially in rural areas, your hands may be tied by local politics and counterproductive policies. Discount cards, golf tournaments, liftathons, endzone/sideline banners, etc. are all good starts. If you can get the coaches and some parents together to work some big sporting event in a neighboring city (like selling concessions or parking cars in return for a cut of the money), that is probably your best bang-for-the-buck, but it’s hard work. Be ready to barter a lot for things like free pre-game meals from local churches/restaurants and cut deals with band/cheerleading/basketball coaches to let them fundraise at home games in exchange for part of the money. If you need HUDL or a new squat rack, try hitting up well-off parents to sponsor those things directly. Be ready to build your own Touchdown Club and get stuck spending a lot of time dealing with it. Try to tie fundraising to a concrete, tangible goal (“will you sponsor me in our liftathon so we can earn a new locker room?”) rather than just asking kids to beg for money.
If I took over a job like that, the first thing I’d do would be to focus on the players’ experience. Make weights and practice fun places for kids to be and get really organized and efficient in how you do things. Group kids together in the weight room and have them lift on a cadence before rotating. Keep practices under 2 hours. Have the “come to Jesus” meeting with your most talented players, who will likely either be your best leaders or your most entitled cancers. Try to get some new swag, paint the field house/weigh room, and do home visits with players’ families to build rapport. Focus your attention on building a feeder system and building relationships with those kids, parents, and coaches—this may not really exist there.
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Post by vicvinegar on Sept 28, 2020 12:46:01 GMT -6
So I am currently a position coach, hoping to become a DC in the near future. However there is a school that I would like to apply for the HC position when it becomes available again (it does every 2-5 years). So a background on the program. They are perennial LOSERS! They have 32 wins in the last 30 seasons. Only 2 winning seasons in the schools 50 year history. Last season, there was a running clock in 7/10 of their games. The school is located in a poor rural area. Nearest city is an hour away. Enrollment is slightly over 600. It does not appear that it is a situation where all the athletes are flocking to other sports either. Only a few good seasons in basketball and an average baseball program. On average, it appears there is around 25-30 players on the team. I would bet that is including freshmen. I'm sure some are asking why in the world would you want to take this job. So for a couple reasons. First, the schedule. The conference has two really strong teams. The rest are at best average. A few only chance for a win is against this program. The out of conference schedule is very favorable. It's the only show in town in town. There is no worries about competing with other schools for athletes. Also, considering their success, there is decent attendance to the games. I've watched highlights on max preps and there are a lot more fans than I expected. Also, there are a few things that I believe could be quick fixes. Watching those highlights, technique is awful. They do not run a gap sound defense. There are players walking on the field between the whistle. These are things I can fix and quickly! Lastly, who wouldn't want to be the coach to turn this program around. A few thoughts on how I would turn the program around. Obviously it goes a little more in-depth that this. 1) Get buy-in from the players. Create a leadership council that consist of two players from each class. This is the teams voice for when it comes to making team decisions. Obviously I make the final decision, but it would give them some ownership. 2) Recruit, Recruit and recruit some more. You have to grow your numbers. I feel like having given some ownership to current players, this will cause them to help you recruit even harder. Also, you have to try to create energy around the program. I realize this would not be easy. But start with t-shirts and stuff. 3)Keep it simple. Defensively, I would run a 4-4 cover 3 to begin. Stop the run and don't allow big plays. By keeping the playbook limited, it would allow us to focus on technique and tackling. I would allow the OC to run anything they want. Only stipulation is, they can't snap the ball until 3 seconds or less is on the play clock. I want to shorten games and keep it to where we have a fighting chance at the end. I don't want running clocks at the end of games, which has been the norm. Win or lose, I want kids to believe/ see that we are improving. Questions for you. 1) I'm a Defensive guy. Always have been. What do I do if I'm going into the season and still can't find an OC. I know this is a common question, but how do I improve a staff that in all likelihood needs to be completed rebuilt? 2) Raising funds in a poor, rural community. 3) Lastly, I know several will say "I'd never accept this job." Just entertain me for a moment, pretend that for some strange reason you did. How would you make this a competitive program. So....I took over a similar situation in 2003. Team had only won 8 games in 7 seasons and not a single win in the past 3 seasons. Also smallest school in conference by far. Why did I take it over? B/c I wanted to be a HC & the guy I was working for wasn't going anywhere anytime soon. W/o HC expereince usually you have to take over for a successful retiree who names you their heir, or you gotta take a tough job. Having said that. I dii the following: 1 - Got an incoming list of all fresh and called all of them. 2- Set a summer camp w/ minimal cost to encourage attendance. 3 - Try to get a staff you can trust & is WILLING to ACCEPT your vision. Don't have to be all stars, just have to be willing team players w/ some work ethic. 4- Expect some disappointment. They will not GET IT right away. 5 - Tied in w/ #4. Modify your standards some. You can't get to play off caliber immediately. It's a process. If you kick some dude off the team right away, they won't see it as "this guy is serious, I want to play for him". they will see it as "this guys unfair" b/c they probably haven't learned the expectations that legit programs have & it will take time. Not saying you don't have expecatitons but they must build gradually. 6 - Have a clear as day vision & stick to it. Know what you're going to do on O & D and do it well. it doesn't have to be earth shattering stuff, it's not necessarily what you do but how well you do it. When I took over we won 1 game the 1st year & it was like a SB party b/c they hadn't won in so long. next year we won 2 & it was a big deal b/c they hadn't won more than once in a season in almost a decade. next year we won 4 & got knocked out of a play off berth on the last play of the season. Next season we went to play off's for 1st time in 16 years & won the only play off game in school history. The follwoing week we lost to eventual state champs by a TD. After that I took over a start up program closer to home and kind of emulated the same process. We are not world beaters but average a play off berth about every other season. Haven't gotten to the next level yet but trying. Always remember TALENT plays a HUGE role. Don't go down the rabbit hole of trying to find "magic bullets" b/c you prob shoot yourself in the foot. Sorry if this came off preachy, but I'm pretty passionate about the subject since literally my only HC experience is taking over a perennial loser and starting program from scratch at a new school. Good Luck! Thanks for sharing. I am much like you, in the fact that I'm very passionate about the opportunity to rebuild a program. I currently coach in one of the best conferences in my state. However, long-term I would much rather go try to rebuild struggling programs in rural parts of the state. Maybe I'm weird! I also agree that more times than not, your first HC job will be at a struggling program. That's why I enjoy learning about the things that have/have not worked for others when they have taken positions like these. Odds are I will never actually get the position at the school I mentioned above. I do figure when/ if I do get an opportunity, it will be in a similar situation. |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 28, 2020 12:58:03 GMT -6
I walked into my first HC gig with one AC who had never coached before. He's a great guy, wanted to learn and turned into a fantastic coach. I snagged two more guys who'd played the game but had never coached. Again, awesome people who worked their butts off and did some fantastic things for the program.
We were idiot proof on both sides of the ball but gradually grew as the staff became more confident and comfortable.
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Post by CS on Sept 28, 2020 12:59:05 GMT -6
So....I took over a similar situation in 2003. Team had only won 8 games in 7 seasons and not a single win in the past 3 seasons. Also smallest school in conference by far. Why did I take it over? B/c I wanted to be a HC & the guy I was working for wasn't going anywhere anytime soon. W/o HC expereince usually you have to take over for a successful retiree who names you their heir, or you gotta take a tough job. Having said that. I dii the following: 1 - Got an incoming list of all fresh and called all of them. 2- Set a summer camp w/ minimal cost to encourage attendance. 3 - Try to get a staff you can trust & is WILLING to ACCEPT your vision. Don't have to be all stars, just have to be willing team players w/ some work ethic. 4- Expect some disappointment. They will not GET IT right away. 5 - Tied in w/ #4. Modify your standards some. You can't get to play off caliber immediately. It's a process. If you kick some dude off the team right away, they won't see it as "this guy is serious, I want to play for him". they will see it as "this guys unfair" b/c they probably haven't learned the expectations that legit programs have & it will take time. Not saying you don't have expecatitons but they must build gradually. 6 - Have a clear as day vision & stick to it. Know what you're going to do on O & D and do it well. it doesn't have to be earth shattering stuff, it's not necessarily what you do but how well you do it. When I took over we won 1 game the 1st year & it was like a SB party b/c they hadn't won in so long. next year we won 2 & it was a big deal b/c they hadn't won more than once in a season in almost a decade. next year we won 4 & got knocked out of a play off berth on the last play of the season. Next season we went to play off's for 1st time in 16 years & won the only play off game in school history. The follwoing week we lost to eventual state champs by a TD. After that I took over a start up program closer to home and kind of emulated the same process. We are not world beaters but average a play off berth about every other season. Haven't gotten to the next level yet but trying. Always remember TALENT plays a HUGE role. Don't go down the rabbit hole of trying to find "magic bullets" b/c you prob shoot yourself in the foot. Sorry if this came off preachy, but I'm pretty passionate about the subject since literally my only HC experience is taking over a perennial loser and starting program from scratch at a new school. Good Luck! Thanks for sharing. I am much like you, in the fact that I'm very passionate about the opportunity to rebuild a program. I currently coach in one of the best conferences in my state. However, long-term I would much rather go try to rebuild struggling programs in rural parts of the state. Maybe I'm weird! I also agree that more times than not, your first HC job will be at a struggling program. That's why I enjoy learning about the things that have/have not worked for others when they have taken positions like these. Odds are I will never actually get the position at the school I mentioned above. I do figure when/ if I do get an opportunity, it will be in a similar situation. "The good jobs already have coaches"-Lou Holtz. I agree with what s73 said especially about expectations. I came in here from a very good program and it's been a struggle especially not getting a spring and half of the summer. Standards aren't where I want them but we are building. Have a vision and work to make it a reality, but you may have to lower standards like he said. Not on the important stuff but let some little things go until you build a solid relationship |
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Post by coachscdub on Sept 28, 2020 18:24:36 GMT -6
Some great stuff so far in this thread.
Really feel the need to emphasize a good staff. i know you said numbers are low, but if you do field a Frosh/Soph team get some great guys there to coach those guys up early.
Other thing i will add which I've heard mentioned earlier is be different. Dont do what everyone else does.
If every defense in the league is an even front, base out of Odd.
If every team is spread, run single/double wing or whatever.
Being different is one of the things that helped us at my old school, it gave us something to compete with on the field but it also gave us a talking point for our kids, it helped me try and sell our kids on what we were doing.
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Post by dubber on Sept 29, 2020 4:26:05 GMT -6
Some things to consider digging up info on......maybe talk to one of the HCs that filled through there?
-admin support?
-weight room experience?
You want to know before you go in if the AD is also the baseball coach and tells all the athletes to do fall ball......or if the school board is a pain, etc
You also want to know what type of culture you have weight room wise......this is your quickest path to success.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 29, 2020 6:03:13 GMT -6
Some things to consider digging up info on......maybe talk to one of the HCs that filled through there? -admin support? -weight room experience? You want to know before you go in if the AD is also the baseball coach and tells all the athletes to do fall ball......or if the school board is a pain, etc You also want to know what type of culture you have weight room wise......this is your quickest path to success. And given the fact that the school has not been successful for 3 decades, chances are there is atleast one if not several community/school base issues that a HC can not correct. vicvinegar Allow me to echo some of the more negative based ideas put forth here : 1) Chances are very high that the schools record is not just a product of the school "not doing this", but rather a complex issue with many intertwined factors. For example there may be no weight room program, BECAUSE the coaches are required to coach multiple sports and there is no one to run the program. This may require an integrated S&C policy that the school just can't facilitate. 2) Chances are fairly high that the community as a whole would not be classified as "winners" who understand the process, respect hard work and self discipline and how they lead to results etc, but rather are blamers who shirk accountability and will not allow their children to be held accountable. They believe football success comes from playcalling. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 6:34:37 GMT -6
You need to sit down with a current hc. A lot more goes into taking a job than you let people Believe you understand. It’s naive to believe it’s just about football, cause it really ain’t.
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Post by joelee on Sept 29, 2020 8:04:48 GMT -6
Be careful thinking stuff like "I will get buy in" or "I will get better players out". You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink is a true statement. You can't force people, especially kids who aren't on your payroll to do things. Investigate further why they haven't won and ask the admin if they will even ALLOW you to fix it. Will the parents allow it. Will the kids buy in? You can MAKE those three groups want to do what it takes to win. You can show them, and you can ask them, but you can't force them. Oh and focus on the actions and changes it will take. The time, the effort, the money. Everyone will SAY they want to win..Lastly, you can't do it yourself. The HC is just the top of the pyramid. It takes a village. You need staff, you need boosters, you need admin.
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Post by vicvinegar on Sept 29, 2020 8:20:33 GMT -6
I walked into my first HC gig with one AC who had never coached before. He's a great guy, wanted to learn and turned into a fantastic coach. I snagged two more guys who'd played the game but had never coached. Again, awesome people who worked their butts off and did some fantastic things for the program. We were idiot proof on both sides of the ball but gradually grew as the staff became more confident and comfortable. Reassuring that walking into a position with a very inexperienced coaching staff has been done before. lol Just curious, what idiot proof offense did you run? |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 29, 2020 9:01:37 GMT -6
I walked into my first HC gig with one AC who had never coached before. He's a great guy, wanted to learn and turned into a fantastic coach. I snagged two more guys who'd played the game but had never coached. Again, awesome people who worked their butts off and did some fantastic things for the program. We were idiot proof on both sides of the ball but gradually grew as the staff became more confident and comfortable. Reassuring that walking into a position with a very inexperienced coaching staff has been done before. lol Just curious, what idiot proof offense did you run?
Started off with a very basic Single-Wing; two formations, the spin series and a few other plays mixed in. Kicked over to a minimalist Wing-T but kept five plays from the Single-Wing spin as a "Wildcat". In retrospect, it wasn't really necessary but we had a bruiser of a FB who excelled form that spinback spot. It was fun, we didn't have to practice it much (same blocking schemes) and we did well with it.
It was great; the coaching staff learned the backfield actions in the Single Wing in a couple of days. They taught it like pros quickly. The same went for the Wing-T package; I could coach the OL and trust them to coach up everything else well. They were both young guys who, at times, wanted to "modernize" the schemes (i.e. gun sets, throw the ball more..) but they were humble enough to know they couldn't coach it at that time.
More often than not, you get coaches who are the very definition of "a little knowledge being a dangerous thing". They see something on TV, it looks simple enough but they have about half amount of knowledge they need to coach it.
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Post by doitforthekids on Sept 29, 2020 9:21:29 GMT -6
Reassuring that walking into a position with a very inexperienced coaching staff has been done before. lol Just curious, what idiot proof offense did you run?
Started off with a very basic Single-Wing; two formations, the spin series and a few other plays mixed in. Kicked over to a minimalist Wing-T but kept five plays from the Single-Wing spin as a "Wildcat". In retrospect, it wasn't really necessary but we had a bruiser of a FB who excelled form that spinback spot. It was fun, we didn't have to practice it much (same blocking schemes) and we did well with it.
It was great; the coaching staff learned the backfield actions in the Single Wing in a couple of days. They taught it like pros quickly. The same went for the Wing-T package; I could coach the OL and trust them to coach up everything else well. They were both young guys who, at times, wanted to "modernize" the schemes (i.e. gun sets, throw the ball more..) but they were humble enough to know they couldn't coach it at that time.
More often than not, you get coaches who are the very definition of "a little knowledge being a dangerous thing". They see something on TV, it looks simple enough but they have about half amount of knowledge they need to coach it.
Mixing wing-t and single wing, interesting coach! What idiot proof defense did you teach? |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 29, 2020 9:36:37 GMT -6
Started off with a very basic Single-Wing; two formations, the spin series and a few other plays mixed in. Kicked over to a minimalist Wing-T but kept five plays from the Single-Wing spin as a "Wildcat". In retrospect, it wasn't really necessary but we had a bruiser of a FB who excelled form that spinback spot. It was fun, we didn't have to practice it much (same blocking schemes) and we did well with it.
It was great; the coaching staff learned the backfield actions in the Single Wing in a couple of days. They taught it like pros quickly. The same went for the Wing-T package; I could coach the OL and trust them to coach up everything else well. They were both young guys who, at times, wanted to "modernize" the schemes (i.e. gun sets, throw the ball more..) but they were humble enough to know they couldn't coach it at that time.
More often than not, you get coaches who are the very definition of "a little knowledge being a dangerous thing". They see something on TV, it looks simple enough but they have about half amount of knowledge they need to coach it.
Mixing wing-t and single wing, interesting coach! What idiot proof defense did you teach?
Lol.. We were 3-4 and weren't quite idiot proof on that side of the ball.... We struggled on defense.
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Post by aceback76 on Sept 29, 2020 10:03:43 GMT -6
So I am currently a position coach, hoping to become a DC in the near future. However there is a school that I would like to apply for the HC position when it becomes available again (it does every 2-5 years). So a background on the program. They are perennial LOSERS! They have 32 wins in the last 30 seasons. Only 2 winning seasons in the schools 50 year history. Last season, there was a running clock in 7/10 of their games. The school is located in a poor rural area. Nearest city is an hour away. Enrollment is slightly over 600. It does not appear that it is a situation where all the athletes are flocking to other sports either. Only a few good seasons in basketball and an average baseball program. On average, it appears there is around 25-30 players on the team. I would bet that is including freshmen. I'm sure some are asking why in the world would you want to take this job. So for a couple reasons. First, the schedule. The conference has two really strong teams. The rest are at best average. A few only chance for a win is against this program. The out of conference schedule is very favorable. It's the only show in town in town. There is no worries about competing with other schools for athletes. Also, considering their success, there is decent attendance to the games. I've watched highlights on max preps and there are a lot more fans than I expected. Also, there are a few things that I believe could be quick fixes. Watching those highlights, technique is awful. They do not run a gap sound defense. There are players walking on the field between the whistle. These are things I can fix and quickly! Lastly, who wouldn't want to be the coach to turn this program around. A few thoughts on how I would turn the program around. Obviously it goes a little more in-depth that this. 1) Get buy-in from the players. Create a leadership council that consist of two players from each class. This is the teams voice for when it comes to making team decisions. Obviously I make the final decision, but it would give them some ownership. 2) Recruit, Recruit and recruit some more. You have to grow your numbers. I feel like having given some ownership to current players, this will cause them to help you recruit even harder. Also, you have to try to create energy around the program. I realize this would not be easy. But start with t-shirts and stuff. 3)Keep it simple. Defensively, I would run a 4-4 cover 3 to begin. Stop the run and don't allow big plays. By keeping the playbook limited, it would allow us to focus on technique and tackling. I would allow the OC to run anything they want. Only stipulation is, they can't snap the ball until 3 seconds or less is on the play clock. I want to shorten games and keep it to where we have a fighting chance at the end. I don't want running clocks at the end of games, which has been the norm. Win or lose, I want kids to believe/ see that we are improving. Questions for you. 1) I'm a Defensive guy. Always have been. What do I do if I'm going into the season and still can't find an OC. I know this is a common question, but how do I improve a staff that in all likelihood needs to be completed rebuilt? 2) Raising funds in a poor, rural community. 3) Lastly, I know several will say "I'd never accept this job." Just entertain me for a moment, pretend that for some strange reason you did. How would you make this a competitive program. The master "rebuilder" of downtrodden football teams was Paul Bear Bryant. Even though the "Bear" has been gone since 1983, his book "Building a Championship Football Team" has the best advice I ever saw about that topic, and is certainly NOT "out of date" (except for those who coach like a "wuss"). BUILDING A CHAMPIONSHIP FOOTBALL TEAM Hardcover – by Paul W. "Bear" Bryant (Author) KEY CHAPTERS (relative to the OP): Great information: INTRO: THE REAL "COMPETITOR" CH 1. WHY FOOTBALL? CH 2. THE THEORY OF WINNING FOOTBALL CH 3. MAKING THE MOST OF THE COACHING STAFF CH 12. THOSE WHO STAY WILL BE CHAMPIONS |
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Post by rsmith627 on Sept 29, 2020 10:08:32 GMT -6
So I am currently a position coach, hoping to become a DC in the near future. However there is a school that I would like to apply for the HC position when it becomes available again (it does every 2-5 years). So a background on the program. They are perennial LOSERS! They have 32 wins in the last 30 seasons. Only 2 winning seasons in the schools 50 year history. Last season, there was a running clock in 7/10 of their games. The school is located in a poor rural area. Nearest city is an hour away. Enrollment is slightly over 600. It does not appear that it is a situation where all the athletes are flocking to other sports either. Only a few good seasons in basketball and an average baseball program. On average, it appears there is around 25-30 players on the team. I would bet that is including freshmen. I'm sure some are asking why in the world would you want to take this job. So for a couple reasons. First, the schedule. The conference has two really strong teams. The rest are at best average. A few only chance for a win is against this program. The out of conference schedule is very favorable. It's the only show in town in town. There is no worries about competing with other schools for athletes. Also, considering their success, there is decent attendance to the games. I've watched highlights on max preps and there are a lot more fans than I expected. Also, there are a few things that I believe could be quick fixes. Watching those highlights, technique is awful. They do not run a gap sound defense. There are players walking on the field between the whistle. These are things I can fix and quickly! Lastly, who wouldn't want to be the coach to turn this program around. A few thoughts on how I would turn the program around. Obviously it goes a little more in-depth that this. 1) Get buy-in from the players. Create a leadership council that consist of two players from each class. This is the teams voice for when it comes to making team decisions. Obviously I make the final decision, but it would give them some ownership. 2) Recruit, Recruit and recruit some more. You have to grow your numbers. I feel like having given some ownership to current players, this will cause them to help you recruit even harder. Also, you have to try to create energy around the program. I realize this would not be easy. But start with t-shirts and stuff. 3)Keep it simple. Defensively, I would run a 4-4 cover 3 to begin. Stop the run and don't allow big plays. By keeping the playbook limited, it would allow us to focus on technique and tackling. I would allow the OC to run anything they want. Only stipulation is, they can't snap the ball until 3 seconds or less is on the play clock. I want to shorten games and keep it to where we have a fighting chance at the end. I don't want running clocks at the end of games, which has been the norm. Win or lose, I want kids to believe/ see that we are improving. Questions for you. 1) I'm a Defensive guy. Always have been. What do I do if I'm going into the season and still can't find an OC. I know this is a common question, but how do I improve a staff that in all likelihood needs to be completed rebuilt? 2) Raising funds in a poor, rural community. 3) Lastly, I know several will say "I'd never accept this job." Just entertain me for a moment, pretend that for some strange reason you did. How would you make this a competitive program. The master "rebuilder" of downtrodden football teams was Paul Bear Bryant. Even though the "Bear" has been gone since 1983, his book "Building a Championship Football Team" has the best advice I ever saw about that topic, and is certainly NOT "out of date" (except for those who coach like a "wuss"). BUILDING A CHAMPIONSHIP FOOTBALL TEAM Hardcover – by Paul W. "Bear" Bryant (Author) I'm gonna bite. What is coaching like a wuss? |
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Post by aceback76 on Sept 29, 2020 10:22:47 GMT -6
The master "rebuilder" of downtrodden football teams was Paul Bear Bryant. Even though the "Bear" has been gone since 1983, his book "Building a Championship Football Team" has the best advice I ever saw about that topic, and is certainly NOT "out of date" (except for those who coach like a "wuss"). BUILDING A CHAMPIONSHIP FOOTBALL TEAM Hardcover – by Paul W. "Bear" Bryant (Author) I'm gonna bite. What is coaching like a wuss? Dictionary definition of a "Wuss" = A weak or ineffectual person. In other words, a "Wuss" is definitely NOT in "control" of his own program! |
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Post by CS on Sept 29, 2020 10:34:17 GMT -6
The master "rebuilder" of downtrodden football teams was Paul Bear Bryant. Even though the "Bear" has been gone since 1983, his book "Building a Championship Football Team" has the best advice I ever saw about that topic, and is certainly NOT "out of date" (except for those who coach like a "wuss"). BUILDING A CHAMPIONSHIP FOOTBALL TEAM Hardcover – by Paul W. "Bear" Bryant (Author) I'm gonna bite. What is coaching like a wuss? Probably not the best way to put it but I know what he is getting at. I would view them as someone that has no discipline in the program because they are afraid to hold people accountable |
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Post by aceback76 on Sept 29, 2020 10:38:49 GMT -6
I'm gonna bite. What is coaching like a wuss? Probably not the best way to put it but I know what he is getting at. I would view them as someone that has no discipline in the program because they are afraid to hold people accountable AND, have probably surrendered "control" of their team to others (Booster Clubs, parents, the players, etc.). Coach Joe "Milquetoast" (a "Wuss") might even start the Supt. or Principal's son at QB even thought his is the worst athlete on the team!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 14:25:24 GMT -6
32 wins in 30 years with a lot of different coaches is a big red flag for building a successful program. What are the population demographics like there? I know of a school that has been similarly bad (but not THAT bad) and a big part of what has hurt them is that a lot of the boys in the school are foster kids or transient in some way, which means high turnover from year to year and kids even leaving school during the season. That’s not the sort of thing that is apparent to an outsider, but it makes building anything sustainable there impossible.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 30, 2020 7:50:33 GMT -6
32 wins in 30 years with a lot of different coaches is a big red flag for building a successful program. What are the population demographics like there? I know of a school that has been similarly bad (but not THAT bad) and a big part of what has hurt them is that a lot of the boys in the school are foster kids or transient in some way, which means high turnover from year to year and kids even leaving school during the season. That’s not the sort of thing that is apparent to an outsider, but it makes building anything sustainable there impossible.
Agreed... To me, this isn't necessarily a sign of poor coaching (they probably had a couple of decent coaches in 32 years..) but systemic issues within the school and community. IMO, this is a program that a good coach will turn into a 2-3 win/year squad and nothing more. And, it'll be a fight to even get to that point; a lot of effort and frustration for a poor return.
I'll be honest, I loved the core kids that I coached in my first HC gig; they'll always be some of my favorite players and people. But, I didn't see us ever growing out of being a lower tier team because of the problems in the school and the community. I saw myself and the staff fighting the same battles every single year and spinning our wheels.
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Post by vicvinegar on Sept 30, 2020 8:31:34 GMT -6
32 wins in 30 years with a lot of different coaches is a big red flag for building a successful program. What are the population demographics like there? I know of a school that has been similarly bad (but not THAT bad) and a big part of what has hurt them is that a lot of the boys in the school are foster kids or transient in some way, which means high turnover from year to year and kids even leaving school during the season. That’s not the sort of thing that is apparent to an outsider, but it makes building anything sustainable there impossible. I asked on a local football forum what others thought the issues were. This is what they said. "The County is a tough situation. About the only industry that was ever there was agricultural and coal mining. The mining dried up in the 80’s, about the same time the school was incorporated. The town is literally a town stuck in another time. I would think socioeconomics dictate here as much as anywhere in the state." "The coal business results in families who do not stay in the community. That's the short of it. They've had minor success in basketball when they get 2-3 players, but to build a football program, they need generational stability IMHO" I realize there are is likely more issues than just scheme and getting the guys into the weight room. Maybe I'm just stubborn, but especially when a schedule is favorable, I just believe a program like this can't developed into a competitive program. |
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Post by fantom on Sept 30, 2020 8:43:44 GMT -6
32 wins in 30 years with a lot of different coaches is a big red flag for building a successful program. What are the population demographics like there? I know of a school that has been similarly bad (but not THAT bad) and a big part of what has hurt them is that a lot of the boys in the school are foster kids or transient in some way, which means high turnover from year to year and kids even leaving school during the season. That’s not the sort of thing that is apparent to an outsider, but it makes building anything sustainable there impossible.
Agreed... To me, this isn't necessarily a sign of poor coaching (they probably had a couple of decent coaches in 32 years..) but systemic issues within the school and community. IMO, this is a program that a good coach will turn into a 2-3 win/year squad and nothing more. And, it'll be a fight to even get to that point; a lot of effort and frustration for a poor return.
I'll be honest, I loved the core kids that I coached in my first HC gig; they'll always be some of my favorite players and people. But, I didn't see us ever growing out of being a lower tier team because of the problems in the school and the community. I saw myself and the staff fighting the same battles every single year and spinning our wheels.
What's especially telling is that it's not just football that's been bad. |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 30, 2020 8:47:07 GMT -6
Agreed... To me, this isn't necessarily a sign of poor coaching (they probably had a couple of decent coaches in 32 years..) but systemic issues within the school and community. IMO, this is a program that a good coach will turn into a 2-3 win/year squad and nothing more. And, it'll be a fight to even get to that point; a lot of effort and frustration for a poor return.
I'll be honest, I loved the core kids that I coached in my first HC gig; they'll always be some of my favorite players and people. But, I didn't see us ever growing out of being a lower tier team because of the problems in the school and the community. I saw myself and the staff fighting the same battles every single year and spinning our wheels.
What's especially telling is that it's not just football that's been bad.
I didn't see that... That would scare the hell out of me.. Lol If a school is good at one boy's sport and chitty in the rest, at least I know what we're up against.. Make football as desirable as basketball, baseball, track (whatever) and you've got a shot.
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Post by joelee on Sept 30, 2020 9:10:31 GMT -6
Once you learn to quit, it becomes a habit-Lombardi
These people have been quitting for 30 years
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Post by somecoach on Sept 30, 2020 9:31:10 GMT -6
1) Offensively, I'd go super radical... DTDW/singlewing to slow down the game to a literall standstill keep everything a 1-2 score game... or go full air raid and enjoy the pass happy sh*t show. Either way I would try to be different in someway that makes you a PIA to prepare for.
2) TBH i am not that good at this area ... Try to engage the community a bit more, Car Show, local sponsorship signs I guess
3) This is going to be multi layered:
- BEG to get in the lower division if possible ... a lot of perennial losers in my area could benefit by doing so
- start recruiting asap, get out to the local youth teams and get bodies into the building... I would even host youth football camps to get them on campus to "try it before they buy it"
I would have a giant social media influence ASAP
I'd also do the obvious and recruit the halls
- cohesive weight room program... doesn't have to be glamourous ... full body prison lifts every other day and sprints could suffice until you get funding
- have fun with it... know you are getting into a sh*t show... know its not a reflection on you as a coach when their dudes are better than your dudes, and make sure the player themselves had a positive experience through the culture you bring to the program
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Post by 60zgo on Sept 30, 2020 9:40:09 GMT -6
A couple things...
1. It doesn't matter what you want. It matters what the admin wants. Do they have the burning desire to "turn it around"? If not then you are wasting your time.
2. Beware the turnaround job as your first gig. You only get the first HC job once. Fail and you probably won't get another shot. "Succeed" and you risk getting labeled as that "turnaround guy" and you will be stuck in that orbit.
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