RnS-OC
Sophomore Member
Posts: 117 
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Post by RnS-OC on Sept 8, 2020 3:48:02 GMT -6
Assuming roughly 40-50 players each on JV and varsity, what do you think is the sweet spot?
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Post by pvogel on Sept 8, 2020 4:46:07 GMT -6
I wouldn't say that there is a number that is too many. Or at least, I've never been anywhere close to that number haha.
But I will say that having coaches that are detrimental to success is a killer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2020 5:08:59 GMT -6
No such thing if they are completely on board. BB, yes I am a BB bo-bo, is on to something in not bringing in veteran coaches. Ideally, you want guys Who want the fb more than anything, and can and are willing to be molded. Coaches who are willing to be coached. Most of the time though people want the title, to be the next hot shot, or they want the $$$. Most of the those guys can’t be coached, are not loyal, will not work. They have arrived in there in there mind. Goes for young and old.
This goes for players as well.
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Post by cqmiller on Sept 8, 2020 12:09:26 GMT -6
Any of them that don't work and just "hang out" is too many
You can never have enough guys who are willing to COACH...
I'd rather have 4 total coaches that all understand and work their tails off than to have 20 and 15 of them really just hang out and let the other 5 do all the work.
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Post by blb on Sept 8, 2020 12:16:41 GMT -6
I hate to be "that guy" but - it depends.
Do you two-platoon? Do you practice JV and Varsity together?
As a MINIMUM I wanted three for each level:
Offensive Backs-LBers-OC
Offensive and Defensive Lines-DC
WRs-DBs-Special Teams Coordinator
Too many cooks CAN spoil the broth.
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Post by spartan on Sept 9, 2020 12:18:30 GMT -6
LESS IS MORE. Need 6 Committed on same page and 6 assitants
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Post by MICoach on Sept 9, 2020 17:37:08 GMT -6
Any of them that don't work and just "hang out" is too many You can never have enough guys who are willing to COACH... I'd rather have 4 total coaches that all understand and work their tails off than to have 20 and 15 of them really just hang out and let the other 5 do all the work. I agree with this. There is something to be said for more coaches, but they have to be willing to work. At my last school we had maybe 8 coaches for the whole program but everyone coached their position at all levels so the kids were getting quality coaching all the time. We ran a little thin when the freshmen would have a game and the varsity was still practicing but it generally worked well. At my current school we have something like 13 coaches but a lot of the guys aren't reliable to be there every day. It sounds great to say we have a full slate of position coaches for varsity and JV but when 3-4 of the lower levels guy are unreliable to a) be in attendance, and b) actually be coaching when they're present then you really don't get much more benefit than you would out of 8-9 guys. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 21:19:09 GMT -6
The coaching is part of it. But nowhere near all the work that an elite program, which every person in here wants to run and or be a part of, does.
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Post by Wingtman on Sept 10, 2020 9:31:50 GMT -6
We have 40 kids, 7 coaches-
HC-QBs
RB1 RB 2
OL 1 OL 2
Wr 1 WR 2
DL 1 DL 2
LB 1 LB 2
DB 1 DB 2
Basically RB 1 is the assistant LB coach and so on. Seems to work pretty well. Each of us really focuses on one side of the ball, but helps run the drills etc with the other side.
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Post by bobgoodman on Sept 10, 2020 9:39:04 GMT -6
No such thing if they are completely on board. There is indeed such a thing, even if they're all completely on board, because the greater the number of eyes and mouths, the greater the chance of a scenario like this: COACH 1: "That rep was excellent." ...and, speaking at the exact same instant... COACH 2: "You can do a lot better. You |
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Post by fantom on Sept 10, 2020 9:57:34 GMT -6
No such thing if they are completely on board. There is indeed such a thing, even if they're all completely on board, because the greater the number of eyes and mouths, the greater the chance of a scenario like this: COACH 1: "That rep was excellent." ...and, speaking at the exact same instant... COACH 2: "You can do a lot better. You In that case they're not all completely on board. |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 10, 2020 10:50:25 GMT -6
If you're going to operate with a large number of coaches, each coach HAS to know their place within the program. Each coach needs to be assigned to a specific position and that is their responsibility (outside of coordinators and the HC).
I was one of two OL coaches within a program; I worked with tackles, TEs and H-backs. The other OL coach worked with guards and centers. Starting off, we didn't know each other very well so we stuck with our roles; I watched
"my" guys and he watched "his". We both knew what each position was supposed to be doing but, for the first few weeks, we ONLY coached our position. We worked more as a unit once we became comfortable with one another but we stuck with "our guys" initially as a professional courtesy.
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Post by bobgoodman on Sept 10, 2020 14:54:38 GMT -6
There is indeed such a thing, even if they're all completely on board, because the greater the number of eyes and mouths, the greater the chance of a scenario like this: COACH 1: "That rep was excellent." ...and, speaking at the exact same instant... COACH 2: "You can do a lot better. You In that case they're not all completely on board. "On board" means their instant judgments are always going to be the same? |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 10, 2020 15:19:17 GMT -6
In that case they're not all completely on board. "On board" means their instant judgments are always going to be the same?
"On board" meaning they have enough professional decorum to avoid overriding each other on a whim.
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Post by aceback76 on Sept 10, 2020 15:26:15 GMT -6
Assuming roughly 40-50 players each on JV and varsity, what do you think is the sweet spot? If the HFC takes a position = we WANT 5 on each level (if he doesn't we want 6). That would TOTAL 10-12 for both teams combined. |
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Post by blb on Sept 10, 2020 15:32:53 GMT -6
Assuming roughly 40-50 players each on JV and varsity, what do you think is the sweet spot? If the HFC takes a position = we WANT 5 on each level (if he doesn't we want 6). That would TOTAL 10-12 for both teams combined. Wouldn't it matter how many PAID positions you had? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2020 15:43:45 GMT -6
"On board" means their instant judgments are always going to be the same?
"On board" meaning they have enough professional decorum to avoid overriding each other on a whim.
On board means that when a decision is made final, everybody is on board with it, regardless of what individual assistant coaches think. Disagreement is fine, but its not the the ASST. coach’s decision. When we lose games, my boss loves to say its not the assistant coaches who’s name appear in the news paper. |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 11, 2020 6:46:27 GMT -6
"On board" meaning they have enough professional decorum to avoid overriding each other on a whim.
On board means that when a decision is made final, everybody is on board with it, regardless of what individual assistant coaches think. Disagreement is fine, but its not the the ASST. coach’s decision. When we lose games, my boss loves to say its not the assistant coaches who’s name appear in the news paper.
Disagreement is fine but it needs to happen away from the kids. One coach should never override another during practice. Hell, I don't even do that when I'm a coordinator and I see something being taught in a manner I disagree with. I let the coach do their thing, pull them aside quickly and tell them how I want it done. And, it's understood that it needs to be taught that way and any further discussion will happen later.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2020 14:23:30 GMT -6
On board means that when a decision is made final, everybody is on board with it, regardless of what individual assistant coaches think. Disagreement is fine, but its not the the ASST. coach’s decision. When we lose games, my boss loves to say its not the assistant coaches who’s name appear in the news paper.
Disagreement is fine but it needs to happen away from the kids. One coach should never override another during practice. Hell, I don't even do that when I'm a coordinator and I see something being taught in a manner I disagree with. I let the coach do their thing, pull them aside quickly and tell them how I want it done. And, it's understood that it needs to be taught that way and any further discussion will happen later.
if a coordinator has to correct me in practice? I am and should be fired. Same thing for my piece/workload. |
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Post by center on Sept 11, 2020 15:52:28 GMT -6
Our best/happiest staffs had a lot of personal responsibility. For example:
Three levels of play. Eight coaches. Of the 8, six of them called either offense or defense at a level of play.
Varsity mainly practices together. FS mainly practiced together when they could.
We had enough to cover everything but no dead weight. Usually.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 12, 2020 6:37:18 GMT -6
We had a local team here about 10 years ago that had like 15 "coaches". And this was a small-school program with about 40 total players 9-12. Of those 15 coaches, 10 of those guys were either Get-Back coaches, cheerleaders, or fans with a polo shirt. Remember when Mike Tyson used to enter the boxing arena with an entourage of 20 hype men? That's what this team reminded me of when they walked on to the field on Friday nights...  |
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Post by IronmanFootball on Sept 12, 2020 6:45:28 GMT -6
40 players? on Varsity You probably need 6 on V to keep guys from stepping on each other's wangs. JV probably 4.
HC/RB
OC/QB
DC/ILB
STC/H/OLB
S&C/OL/DL
Film/WR/DB
JV
HC/OC/QB
DC/RB/LB
STC WR/DB
Film/OL/DL
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Post by coachcb on Sept 12, 2020 7:31:43 GMT -6
Disagreement is fine but it needs to happen away from the kids. One coach should never override another during practice. Hell, I don't even do that when I'm a coordinator and I see something being taught in a manner I disagree with. I let the coach do their thing, pull them aside quickly and tell them how I want it done. And, it's understood that it needs to be taught that way and any further discussion will happen later.
if a coordinator has to correct me in practice? I am and should be fired. Same thing for my piece/workload. Its not that cut and dry. There are times when things are lost in translation or there's a breakdown im communication. Our DL coach knew his chit but had the 3 techs focused too much on finding a puller on trap versus stepping down. They'd freeze and then try to attack the puller: not a lot of room to do so. So, they were getting kicked out. I let him run his trap drill, pulled him aside and asked him to focus on stepping down solely with the 3 techs. I could've stepped into the drill (I was the HC/DC) but I let him do his thing and then we chatted. He wasn't blowing ne off or intentionally teaching bad technique. He just needed to emphasize one aspect above the rest. |
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Post by bobgoodman on Sept 12, 2020 8:04:47 GMT -6
"On board" means their instant judgments are always going to be the same?
"On board" meaning they have enough professional decorum to avoid overriding each other on a whim.
Unless they have a prearrangement for one to keep his mouth shut and let the other one talk to the player, there's no such thing as decorum or whim when, after a rep, they instantly and simultaneously start giving immediate feedback. They may each get out a few words before they realize the other coach is contradicting him, and by then it's too late. |
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Post by fantom on Sept 12, 2020 8:17:21 GMT -6
We had a local team here about 10 years ago that had like 15 "coaches". And this was a small-school program with about 40 total players 9-12. Of those 15 coaches, 10 of those guys were either Get-Back coaches, cheerleaders, or fans with a polo shirt. Remember when Mike Tyson used to enter the boxing arena with an entourage of 20 hype men? That's what this team reminded me of when they walked on to the field on Friday nights... You can bet that there weren't 15 at practice on Wednesday. |
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Post by fantom on Sept 12, 2020 8:21:48 GMT -6
"On board" meaning they have enough professional decorum to avoid overriding each other on a whim.
Unless they have a prearrangement for one to keep his mouth shut and let the other one talk to the player, there's no such thing as decorum or whim when, after a rep, they instantly and simultaneously start giving immediate feedback. They may each get out a few words before they realize the other coach is contradicting him, and by then it's too late. On a good staff there will be that understanding. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2020 9:05:14 GMT -6
if a coordinator has to correct me in practice? I am and should be fired. Same thing for my piece/workload. Its not that cut and dry. There are times when things are lost in translation or there's a breakdown im communication. Our DL coach knew his chit but had the 3 techs focused too much on finding a puller on trap versus stepping down. They'd freeze and then try to attack the puller: not a lot of room to do so. So, they were getting kicked out. I let him run his trap drill, pulled him aside and asked him to focus on stepping down solely with the 3 techs. I could've stepped into the drill (I was the HC/DC) but I let him do his thing and then we chatted. He wasn't blowing ne off or intentionally teaching bad technique. He just needed to emphasize one aspect above the rest. Here it is, but we meet 7 days a week once season starts in some capacity. We address everything in meeting. Nothing happens on the practice field, and if possible w/o the kids around. if the coordinator sees it, adressesin practice, it better be the kid. The clock is ticking if you are not doing the job as asked, requested. |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 12, 2020 10:38:37 GMT -6
"On board" meaning they have enough professional decorum to avoid overriding each other on a whim.
Unless they have a prearrangement for one to keep his mouth shut and let the other one talk to the player, there's no such thing as decorum or whim when, after a rep, they instantly and simultaneously start giving immediate feedback. They may each get out a few words before they realize the other coach is contradicting him, and by then it's too late. It's pretty simple: each assistant coaches their position and their position alone. You keep your mouth shut if its not your position. The coordinators and head coach each position as they see fit. |
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someguy
Sophomore Member
Posts: 191
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Post by someguy on Sept 12, 2020 15:23:30 GMT -6
However many you can get to buy-in. Managing the coaches is the issue, not the number of coaches. I bet everyone wishes they had more to film, etc. in practice, if possible. Look at how many guys these big CFB programs have at practice. I'm sure they don't hate the numbers.
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Post by CS on Sept 12, 2020 16:38:32 GMT -6
On board means that when a decision is made final, everybody is on board with it, regardless of what individual assistant coaches think. Disagreement is fine, but its not the the ASST. coach’s decision. When we lose games, my boss loves to say its not the assistant coaches who’s name appear in the news paper.
Disagreement is fine but it needs to happen away from the kids. One coach should never override another during practice. Hell, I don't even do that when I'm a coordinator and I see something being taught in a manner I disagree with. I let the coach do their thing, pull them aside quickly and tell them how I want it done. And, it's understood that it needs to be taught that way and any further discussion will happen later.
I disagree with this. If something is being taught wrong then it needs to be addressed immediately. You can correct someone with dignity even in front of the players |
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