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Jun 23, 2020 14:26:46 GMT -6
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 23, 2020 14:26:46 GMT -6
I am all for safe. But at some point life has to resume. Or change. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 14:28:12 GMT -6
I am all for safe. But at some point life has to resume. Or change. You can keep your change. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 23, 2020 14:32:54 GMT -6
But is it? I realize they are treating it the same, but should they? One is a one/two day event. One is something that essentially, we have been living with (any virus). I realize that mentioning the flu when discussing the Covid 19 disease is considered bad form, but with regards to transmission, it isn't much different. I have seen several stories regarding laws about liability waivers. Why? This is a virus, a different virus from the flu, but still just a virus. So many inconsistencies. I know it's two different situations. I'm just pointing out how places are thinking. I'm all about getting back to normal and lets go with stuff. Sign a waiver, sure! Go back to school in the fall normal, yes! But unfortunately I'm not at the top of the flow chart, and to be honest it's gonna take someone with a big brass set at the top to say let's do it. Because they are always weighing the what ifs and how will they be held liable. I can guarantee you those people at the top are thinking when they look back at all this it's better to say "Maybe we shouldn't have shut everything down" rather than "We really should have shut it all down". I wanna be back trust me. But I'm way to far down the flow chart to make a difference right now. I have seen this "waiver" idea floated out and I have to ask, why? Not directing this at you but just posing it to see if anyone else here can explain the thought process behind that. Have you ever signed a waiver regarding any pathogen other than perhaps disclosure during surgery? I am generally not one of those who blame the media, but I do think the lightning quick oversaturation of society with Covid 19 coverage has created problems. That isn't dismissing the actual health related problems, but I do think the idea that people are concerned with "liability" regarding someone catching a pathogen is a sad reality of the times. |
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Jun 23, 2020 14:53:22 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 14:53:22 GMT -6
And for a little while now, i sneakily suspect change is coming but not back to the good ole days. I dont believe the 80’s is coming back, nor the 90’s.
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Post by dblwngr on Jun 23, 2020 15:38:31 GMT -6
So the latest model being thrown around in my area of Oregon is only playing teams in your region with a 6 game schedule and no playoffs. They would most likely have to combine some classifications 3a/4a 5a/6a. Again, this is just the latest chatter
I'm in Southern OR and there are very few cases in the east as well as the south, most cases are in the big city areas in the north, Portland/Eugene.
I have a question for you guys on here that are teachers. How does a family with a child or children, lets just say all grade school aged kids, manage distance learning if both parents work? They then have to make a choice to put food on the table, pay the bills, etc., or not work to be freed up to be childcare and a teacher? It seemed to work so so in the beginning but that's when a lot of people were working from home or laid off. Many folks have now gone back to work as things are opening up.
I've asked this question to many but nobody has an answer.......
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Jun 23, 2020 15:43:36 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 15:43:36 GMT -6
So the latest model being thrown around in my area of Oregon is only playing teams in your region with a 6 game schedule and no playoffs. They would most likely have to combine some classifications 3a/4a 5a/6a. Again, this is just the latest chatter I'm in Southern OR and there are very few cases in the east as well as the south, most cases are in the big city areas in the north, Portland/Eugene. I have a question for you guys on here that are teachers. How does a family with a child or children, lets just say all grade school aged kids, manage distance learning if both parents work? They then have to make a choice to put food on the table, pay the bills, etc., or not work to be freed up to be childcare and a teacher? It seemed to work so so in the beginning but that's when a lot of people were working from home or laid off. Many folks have now gone back to work as things are opening up. I've asked this question to many but nobody has an answer....... Kids dont do the work with the parents home. Forget it if they are working. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 23, 2020 16:17:07 GMT -6
How does a family with a child or children, lets just say all grade school aged kids, manage distance learning if both parents work? They then have to make a choice to put food on the table, pay the bills, etc., or not work to be freed up to be childcare and a teacher? It seemed to work so so in the beginning but that's when a lot of people were working from home or laid off. Many folks have now gone back to work as things are opening up. I've asked this question to many but nobody has an answer....... That touches on the underlying issue of education as an academic endeavor vs part of the social safety net. To answer your question- nobody knows |
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Jun 23, 2020 18:27:07 GMT -6
Post by wingtol on Jun 23, 2020 18:27:07 GMT -6
So the latest model being thrown around in my area of Oregon is only playing teams in your region with a 6 game schedule and no playoffs. They would most likely have to combine some classifications 3a/4a 5a/6a. Again, this is just the latest chatter I'm in Southern OR and there are very few cases in the east as well as the south, most cases are in the big city areas in the north, Portland/Eugene. I have a question for you guys on here that are teachers. How does a family with a child or children, lets just say all grade school aged kids, manage distance learning if both parents work? They then have to make a choice to put food on the table, pay the bills, etc., or not work to be freed up to be childcare and a teacher? It seemed to work so so in the beginning but that's when a lot of people were working from home or laid off. Many folks have now gone back to work as things are opening up. I've asked this question to many but nobody has an answer....... I saw one plan for a district that was for an A/B day model with one day off for the school week. So Monday Thrs A goes to school Tue Fri B goes to school with Wed off. This same district also said they would offer childcare options for kids on days they "weren't in school". Let that rattle around for awhile in your head... |
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Post by rsmith627 on Jun 23, 2020 18:29:05 GMT -6
So the latest model being thrown around in my area of Oregon is only playing teams in your region with a 6 game schedule and no playoffs. They would most likely have to combine some classifications 3a/4a 5a/6a. Again, this is just the latest chatter I'm in Southern OR and there are very few cases in the east as well as the south, most cases are in the big city areas in the north, Portland/Eugene. I have a question for you guys on here that are teachers. How does a family with a child or children, lets just say all grade school aged kids, manage distance learning if both parents work? They then have to make a choice to put food on the table, pay the bills, etc., or not work to be freed up to be childcare and a teacher? It seemed to work so so in the beginning but that's when a lot of people were working from home or laid off. Many folks have now gone back to work as things are opening up. I've asked this question to many but nobody has an answer....... I saw one plan for a district that was for an A/B day model with one day off for the school week. So Monday Thrs A goes to school Tue Fri B goes to school with Wed off. This same district also said they would offer childcare options for kids on days they "weren't in school". Let that rattle around for awhile in your head... Childcare for all? Or just typical kids? Asking because I have a kid with Down syndrome who we have a hard time finding childcare for. She apparently deserves less. These are the questions I know districts aren’t asking or answering. |
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Post by 53 on Jun 23, 2020 19:01:59 GMT -6
Our state just released guidelines on no touch bathrooms, no water fountains, no vending machines, one way hallway foot traffic. Individually wrapped box lunches with wrapped disposable spoon/fork.
I don’t see doing all that during the school day and then at 3:15 letting us teach tackling and blocking
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Jun 23, 2020 19:46:39 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 19:46:39 GMT -6
Our state just released guidelines on no touch bathrooms, no water fountains, no vending machines, one way hallway foot traffic. Individually wrapped box lunches with wrapped disposable spoon/fork. I don’t see doing all that during the school day and then at 3:15 letting us teach tackling and blocking The guideline just make it unrealistic. |
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jun 23, 2020 19:53:36 GMT -6
So the latest model being thrown around in my area of Oregon is only playing teams in your region with a 6 game schedule and no playoffs. They would most likely have to combine some classifications 3a/4a 5a/6a. Again, this is just the latest chatter I'm in Southern OR and there are very few cases in the east as well as the south, most cases are in the big city areas in the north, Portland/Eugene. I have a question for you guys on here that are teachers. How does a family with a child or children, lets just say all grade school aged kids, manage distance learning if both parents work? They then have to make a choice to put food on the table, pay the bills, etc., or not work to be freed up to be childcare and a teacher? It seemed to work so so in the beginning but that's when a lot of people were working from home or laid off. Many folks have now gone back to work as things are opening up. I've asked this question to many but nobody has an answer....... I saw one plan for a district that was for an A/B day model with one day off for the school week. So Monday Thrs A goes to school Tue Fri B goes to school with Wed off. This same district also said they would offer childcare options for kids on days they "weren't in school". Let that rattle around for awhile in your head... So to be clear the kids only go two days a week, but if the parents need daycare then all the kids that are supposed to be out of school to keep distancing protocols are welcome to come to the school for childcare? Makes perfect sense |
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Post by bobgoodman on Jun 23, 2020 21:45:02 GMT -6
But that's going to happen regardless. It's not like social distancing can prevent it from happening, only delay it and prolong the period over which it could happen, because such measures don't isolate the entire population severely enough to actually end transmission without people's becoming infected. And there are far too many people infected now for it to be feasible to quarantine just them and trace their contacts. But if we could let this rapidly run thru the population in a few months, Grandma and Grandpa could be isolated (albeit not perfectly) for just that period of time. I'm not sure I get your point. So, you're saying football should be allowed so that more people can get infected faster, and that's a good thing? I don't think I buy into that as a great approach. Not with all the uncertainties involved, and not when the safety of my kids and family is concerned. It's a frigging game. There's NO justification for going forward if there is a public health risk associated with it. Our love for football doesn't qualify as a justification to put people at risk. There's a fire coming. Firefighters can slow it down but not stop it. You don't know how long it'll take to reach you. So your choice is to: - evacuate now for a short period and wait for the fire to consume the fuel; don't delay the fire; or
- have the firefighters slow it down while you wait for what might be a very long time while you remain in jeopardy, or
- have the firefighters slow it down while you evacuate for what might be a very long time (and you still might get burned).
I'm telling you #1 is best, while you seem to think either #2 or #3 is.
Analogies aside, how do you think you're going to stay uninfected? I understand your taking precautions against your becoming infected as an individual, but the only way that works is if everybody else gets infected. If everybody tries not to get infected, then that strategy doesn't work; the pandemic smolders, maybe for years, and every individual has the same chance of getting infected eventually as they would have had if nobody had tried not to get infected.
But the great thing about this virus is that it hardly ever does serious damage to people who are not already debilitated. (Rarely it does, but so does the flu or even the common cold; flukes happen.) That means people can adjust their degree of isolation versus their risk. Not everybody has to worry about getting infected, so most people can live life as normal, get SARS-CoV2, and thus immunize themselves -- and the sooner they do that, the sooner the vulnerable can come out of "evacuation" (isolation) and resume normal life, because the pandemic will have passed.
There is no public health risk associated with promoting transmission of SARS-CoV2, because by the end of the pandemic, the same percentage of the population will have gotten it whether transmission is fast or slow. It's just that if it's slow, it's dragged out over a longer time.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 23, 2020 21:57:11 GMT -6
There is no public health risk associated with promoting transmission of SARS-CoV2, because by the end of the pandemic, the same percentage of the population will have gotten it whether transmission is fast or slow. It's just that if it's slow, it's dragged out over a longer time. [/div] [/quote] Couldn’t one point to the overburdened medical infrastructure in various hot spots as evidence to the contrary? That the health risk could be lack of adequate treatment if a rapid advancement occurs? |
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Post by coachjps on Jun 23, 2020 22:03:27 GMT -6
I am wondering how many HCs are thinking about what if we DO have games from a coaching stand point this fall. What happens if the HC tests positive or one of the coordinators? What happens if a trainer or a manager tests positive? If one of the players test positive? Do you test or quarantine the entire team and forfeit the next week or two? Have you cross trained your staff?
We are back to team conditioning but I just can’t see how this works out to having a season. I am now of the mindset that there won’t be a season but since it hasn’t been canceled the ruling body feels we need to prepare for it even though the chances of playing this season are slim at best.
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Post by bobgoodman on Jun 23, 2020 22:06:51 GMT -6
Like you or someone else has said the only truly feasible way to completely stop the spread is either a complete 21 day lockdown (which is nearly impossible nor practical), a vaccine which is probably months away (and still might not be highly effective), or eventually natural herd immunity. The right call is probably try to wait things out for a vaccine, but that might very well be around the same time herd immunity is reached. Right. And that complete 21 day lockdown would've been of individuals, not households; a household of X number of people could take X times 21 days to assure non-contagiousness. And what if we get a vaccine and nobody wants to take it? There are some exciting new vaccine strategies being pursued in the rush of interest ($) this virus has provoked. Scientifically very interesting. Many of them have zero chance of causing infection, But absence of infection does not mean absence of reactions. Doctors are going to have to think hard whether to recommend such a vaccine to their patients, when they consider how low a risk the natural virus poses for serious illness to most people. Then how about the debilitated, who'd be most at risk of serious illness from Covid-19? Unfortunately that population may also be most at risk from a reaction to the vaccine. It's likely that the vaccine will be tested only on people in general good health, so there may be no good data set for the old and infirm to judge their chances by. |
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Post by bobgoodman on Jun 23, 2020 22:19:35 GMT -6
Yes, if hot spots developed again locally. They could then be dealt with locally. However, there were factors in the development of such hot spots in March that would be unlikely to be reproduced now.
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Jun 24, 2020 6:21:59 GMT -6
Post by wingtol on Jun 24, 2020 6:21:59 GMT -6
I saw one plan for a district that was for an A/B day model with one day off for the school week. So Monday Thrs A goes to school Tue Fri B goes to school with Wed off. This same district also said they would offer childcare options for kids on days they "weren't in school". Let that rattle around for awhile in your head... Childcare for all? Or just typical kids? Asking because I have a kid with Down syndrome who we have a hard time finding childcare for. She apparently deserves less. These are the questions I know districts aren’t asking or answering. I have no idea, like I said just heard that somewhere. How old is your daughter? I know the students I work with in self-contained programs are going to be back like normal in our district to make sure they are getting the services they need. |
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Jun 24, 2020 6:22:53 GMT -6
Post by wingtol on Jun 24, 2020 6:22:53 GMT -6
I saw one plan for a district that was for an A/B day model with one day off for the school week. So Monday Thrs A goes to school Tue Fri B goes to school with Wed off. This same district also said they would offer childcare options for kids on days they "weren't in school". Let that rattle around for awhile in your head... So to be clear the kids only go two days a week, but if the parents need daycare then all the kids that are supposed to be out of school to keep distancing protocols are welcome to come to the school for childcare? Makes perfect sense As I understood it....yes. |
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Post by planck on Jun 24, 2020 6:30:38 GMT -6
Reading this thread makes me sad. I thought, as a profession, we could do better. But some of us are so focussed on what we want were ignoring the safety of our communities.
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Jun 24, 2020 6:53:48 GMT -6
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 24, 2020 6:53:48 GMT -6
Yes, if hot spots developed again locally. They could then be dealt with locally. However, there were factors in the development of such hot spots in March that would be unlikely to be reproduced now. Bob..just curious if you would take chemistry critique from epidemiologists. You do realize the social ramifications from trying to "locally" deal with a hot spot don't you? The people in the hot spot area will simply drive to a neighboring area and now the spread resumes..... |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 24, 2020 6:57:53 GMT -6
Reading this thread makes me sad. I thought, as a profession, we could do better. But some of us are so focussed on what we want were ignoring the safety of our communities. I don't see that point of view here. I see that HEAVILY reading local fan forums, where those topics devolve into a "No Masks by God, Feedom, 'Merica, we need football damn the snowflakes" posts. Not here. Here I see people taking logical looks and asking questions/making comments about the realities of the situation. |
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Post by planck on Jun 24, 2020 7:31:04 GMT -6
Reading this thread makes me sad. I thought, as a profession, we could do better. But some of us are so focussed on what we want were ignoring the safety of our communities. I don't see that point of view here. I see that HEAVILY reading local fan forums, where those topics devolve into a "No Masks by God, Feedom, 'Merica, we need football damn the snowflakes" posts. Not here. Here I see people taking logical looks and asking questions/making comments about the realities of the situation. Maybe I'm just blending the two in my head then. I'm just very alarmed that so many people are being so selfish. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 24, 2020 7:57:07 GMT -6
I don't see that point of view here. I see that HEAVILY reading local fan forums, where those topics devolve into a "No Masks by God, Feedom, 'Merica, we need football damn the snowflakes" posts. Not here. Here I see people taking logical looks and asking questions/making comments about the realities of the situation. Maybe I'm just blending the two in my head then. I'm just very alarmed that so many people are being so selfish. I understand. I can also see well reasoned arguments from other perspectives though. Not the "Freedom, 'Merica, I need hair cut" gun toting morons who are just about control. But in my experience, including an immediate family member having a positive test, there is still a great deal of disconnect and inconsistency and I think it is ok to question that. |
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Post by coachjm on Jun 24, 2020 7:58:55 GMT -6
I don't see that point of view here. I see that HEAVILY reading local fan forums, where those topics devolve into a "No Masks by God, Feedom, 'Merica, we need football damn the snowflakes" posts. Not here. Here I see people taking logical looks and asking questions/making comments about the realities of the situation. Maybe I'm just blending the two in my head then. I'm just very alarmed that so many people are being so selfish. I agree with the above poster that this has been a great discussion with a variety of perspectives.... IMO it is ok for some to believe that we should not have sports or other activities that they deem are high risk (football included) I also believe it is ok for some to believe that the risk of not having sports or other activities (football included) may have greater consequences to people and society then the virus. I'm not choosing a side but certainly not assuming that one side is "too soft" or the other side is "uncaring for other humans and selfish" The reality is none of us know what the "RIGHT" thing to do is, heck the medical experts seemingly don't know at this time, if there was a simplistic solution (well known working vaccine readily available) we would all do it however, there isn't and won't be anytime soon. States, Political Leaders, and individual people will make these decisions on a day to day basis and it will continue to change. In future decades we will be able to look back and decide which ones were the correct ones and which ones had a negative impact. Until then, I'm going to sit back and take in information and hold off judgement regardless of what others opinions are. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2020 9:44:21 GMT -6
I dont think it is selfish. Not everybody sees things the way you or I do. We all look at it with very different backgrounds and experiences. I can see both sides and I think i understand.
I am tired of sitting around hoping for something. Let’s open it and go back to work. Come what may. But it will not happen.
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Jun 24, 2020 11:04:59 GMT -6
Post by bobgoodman on Jun 24, 2020 11:04:59 GMT -6
Yes, if hot spots developed again locally. They could then be dealt with locally. However, there were factors in the development of such hot spots in March that would be unlikely to be reproduced now. Bob..just curious if you would take chemistry critique from epidemiologists. You do realize the social ramifications from trying to "locally" deal with a hot spot don't you? The people in the hot spot area will simply drive to a neighboring area and now the spread resumes..... To the extent that happens, that's a good thing, reducing demand at the hot spot and helping spread the virus (along with immunity to it) rapidly across the globe. Unfortunately the people who would most want to do that are those who are sick and in no condition to drive. However, relocating them to another center would be a way to deal with the overflow. |
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Jun 24, 2020 11:13:24 GMT -6
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 24, 2020 11:13:24 GMT -6
Bob..just curious if you would take chemistry critique from epidemiologists. You do realize the social ramifications from trying to "locally" deal with a hot spot don't you? The people in the hot spot area will simply drive to a neighboring area and now the spread resumes..... To the extent that happens, that's a good thing, reducing demand at the hot spot and helping spread the virus (along with immunity to it) rapidly across the globe. Unfortunately the people who would most want to do that are those who are sick and in no condition to drive. However, relocating them to another center would be a way to deal with the overflow. Bob..you do realize that in order to achieve "herd" immunity you keep espousing, EXPERTS (not chemists/youth football coaches) say that over 70% of the population would need to be infected. If only half of one percent of those who test positive (1 out of every 200 positive cases) die, that would be over 1,000,000 deaths in United States. We are not even close to those levels, and will not be barring a catastrophic health event. Based on the current US data, which I agree has some issues... right now about 5% of the positive cases have resulted in death. |
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Jun 24, 2020 14:31:49 GMT -6
Post by jgordon1 on Jun 24, 2020 14:31:49 GMT -6
I am wondering how many HCs are thinking about what if we DO have games from a coaching stand point this fall. What happens if the HC tests positive or one of the coordinators? What happens if a trainer or a manager tests positive? If one of the players test positive? Do you test or quarantine the entire team and forfeit the next week or two? Have you cross trained your staff? We are back to team conditioning but I just can’t see how this works out to having a season. I am now of the mindset that there won’t be a season but since it hasn’t been canceled the ruling body feels we need to prepare for it even though the chances of playing this season are slim at best. Here is a list of college teams that have had athlete test positive for Covid www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2020/06/21/coronavirus-college-sports-schools-reporting-positive-covid-tests-among-athletes/3231509001/ |
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Post by irishdog on Jun 24, 2020 17:32:17 GMT -6
Here in Texas the state associations have allowed strength and conditioning practices to start on a very limited basis, and strict Covid regulations. It has been very difficult and challenging maintaining those regulations even without the use of equipment and having every athlete in attendance. Frankly, when using common sense (which seems to be in very short supply in our society today IMHO) the way high school and college athletics have been organized, structured, and promoted in the past are no longer relevant under the current set of circumstances.
How do we maintain social distancing on a field, a court, a mat, a track, or a pool? Who will be responsible for that? How do we maintain social distancing in the locker rooms? Who will be responsible for that? How do we maintain social distancing on the buses to transport our athletes to practices/games? Who will be responsible for that? How do we maintain social distancing in the classroom and provide effective teaching and learning at the same time? Who will be responsible for that? How do we maintain social distancing in the hallways? Who will be responsible for that? How do we maintain social distancing during breaks/lunch? Who will be responsible for that? How do we maintain social distancing on school buses when transporting students to and from school? Who will be responsible for that? These are just examples of social distancing! What about Covid testing policies and procedures? What about school discipline issues? What about grade level testing procedures? The list is overwhelming.
We are living in a very different world from what we have been used to. There is no such thing as the "new normal". What we are experiencing is NOT NORMAL. We have to put our heads together and decide what will be in the best interests of our students, teachers, and coaches. That IS who WE ARE whether we like it or not. Once we can figure out how to proceed effectively and efficiently to get back to NORMAL we MUST do everything we can to support that decision.
If it means we spend another year in virtual school without sports then so be it. Frankly...it may be the best thing we can do to buy us more time to get our houses in order while we're trying to get the virus figured out.
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