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Post by coachscdub on Feb 22, 2020 19:55:00 GMT -6
Were you any good on offense last season? That is also part of the equation. Yes and No. We as a team were terrible, it was truly the weirdest group of kids i as well as the other coaches have ever coached. Numerous kids who couldnt comprehend football basics, differentiate left and right, some with spec ed needs, etc. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 22, 2020 21:14:11 GMT -6
This is a different set up than I am really familiar with. Having a Varsity HC so "hands off" with regards to staffing would be an alarm bell to me. So to Clarify, you got a group text message from a guy saying "Hey, look, I am returning to the Frosh team. I will be taking over from John as HC and will also be the OC, John will stay as the DC and Coachscdub will now be the OL coach. " ? It was a direct text to just me from the Coach reassuming the role as Frosh HC, where he said he will be the OC, the previous HC will be the DC, and he wants me to be the OL coach. Thanks for the clarification. Regardless of the text being group or direct, it seems that the varsity HC either is not adept at personnel matters or really does not feel you add much value to his program |
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Post by CS on Feb 23, 2020 7:10:16 GMT -6
Anyone else reading it like the other guy is being demoted and you just happen to be in the wrong role at the wrong time?
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Post by blb on Feb 23, 2020 7:36:18 GMT -6
Nobody just wants to coach. Seems everyone wants a title, even if it's "Co-coordinator."
Including in HS and at Sub-Varsity levels.
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Post by wolverine55 on Feb 23, 2020 7:41:58 GMT -6
Anyone else reading it like the other guy is being demoted and you just happen to be in the wrong role at the wrong time? I was trying to figure this out as well. Not every staff I've been a part of have been structured to where the freshmen have a separate coaching staff. But, in the programs I have been a part of with this structure, pretty much everyone wanted to be varsity. No one would have willingly accepted a freshmen role over a varsity role, even if that freshmen role was "Freshmen HC." Even being a varsity position coach with no other role or title with it carried more weight than a freshmen role. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 23, 2020 7:44:30 GMT -6
Anyone else reading it like the other guy is being demoted and you just happen to be in the wrong role at the wrong time? I don't, based on the fact that the return of this guy also results in last seasons Frosh HC having his role diminished as well. Although I guess that is possible, since based on the posts by the OP, it seems that the Varsity HC really doesn't have a grasp on professionalism in handling his staff. As the story unfolds, I really think there is a chance that at the interview, the OP's talk about playcalling may have turned off the Varsity HC. I can see him thinking "Oh, one of those guys..." and not wanting him interfering with the chemistry of the varsity staff. Also, I was kind of surprised when I read the OP saying that he "did whatever he wanted" on offense, having 5 freshman coaches, not knowing what the program does for JV with regards for coaching, etc. I am just having trouble wrapping my head around this whole set up. And to echo wolverine55 's sentiments above, I have never seen freshman ball ever been remotely close to (much less on par with) Varsity ball with regards to any type of importance or intensity. Being a play caller for the frosh team is generally picking from one of perhaps 2, maybe 3 formations and just 4-6 core Varsity plays. There is little to no gameplanning, in game adjustments, or even much strategy for that matter. It is fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals, and then.. fundamentals. That is what equals success at the Frosh level and then leads to further success at the Varsity. |
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Post by emptybackfield on Feb 23, 2020 13:22:11 GMT -6
Last year was the first year at a new school, i applied and interviewed to be the Var QB coach, after talking with the HC and the OC i decided to take the open job as the Frosh OC. The Frosh HC was our DC, he let me do whatever i wanted on offense. The previous Frosh HC the year before me moved up to the Var as an assistant. Now this year, that previous HC will be returning to the Frosh team as the HC and as the OC, last years HC/DC will remain as DC and i have been offered a position as the OL coach and "Run Game Coordinator". My question is how would you respond in this situation, keeping in mind that you have not really been in the loop for these moves, you simply woke up to a text stating essentially that this is whats happening. Additionally, i have been calling plays the last 5 years on one side of the ball or the other, i havent been a pure position coach in 6 years.
Do you want to be a coach, or just have a title-call plays?
Hahahahaha. The two things are not mutually exclusive. Don’t ever change man. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 23, 2020 13:55:08 GMT -6
Do you want to be a coach, or just have a title-call plays?
Hahahahaha. The two things are not mutually exclusive. Don’t ever change man. No, not in all cases, but in this case it is a fair and accurate question to ask given the posts written by the OP. |
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Post by blb on Feb 23, 2020 13:56:56 GMT -6
coachscdub Why did you leave your previous program where apparently you got to "call plays on one side of the ball or the other"?
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Post by coachscdub on Feb 23, 2020 19:29:31 GMT -6
coachscdub Why did you leave your previous program where apparently you got to "call plays on one side of the ball or the other"? I moved to the other side of the state |
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Post by coachscdub on Feb 23, 2020 19:39:47 GMT -6
Anyone else reading it like the other guy is being demoted and you just happen to be in the wrong role at the wrong time? I don't, based on the fact that the return of this guy also results in last seasons Frosh HC having his role diminished as well. Although I guess that is possible, since based on the posts by the OP, it seems that the Varsity HC really doesn't have a grasp on professionalism in handling his staff. As the story unfolds, I really think there is a chance that at the interview, the OP's talk about playcalling may have turned off the Varsity HC. I can see him thinking "Oh, one of those guys..." and not wanting him interfering with the chemistry of the varsity staff. Also, I was kind of surprised when I read the OP saying that he "did whatever he wanted" on offense, having 5 freshman coaches, not knowing what the program does for JV with regards for coaching, etc. I am just having trouble wrapping my head around this whole set up. And to echo wolverine55 's sentiments above, I have never seen freshman ball ever been remotely close to (much less on par with) Varsity ball with regards to any type of importance or intensity. Being a play caller for the frosh team is generally picking from one of perhaps 2, maybe 3 formations and just 4-6 core Varsity plays. There is little to no gameplanning, in game adjustments, or even much strategy for that matter. It is fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals, and then.. fundamentals. That is what equals success at the Frosh level and then leads to further success at the Varsity. From what i have gathered, no one in the program wants to be the Frosh HC and after one year i can kind of see why. From what information i have the guy coming down to be the Frosh HC is doing the varsity HC a favor by reassuming the role, he hasnt been demoted he is just doing a favor because the Frosh HC last year has essentially refused to be the HC again. In the interview i didnt bring up play calling until the offer of Frosh OC was put out there. I didnt come in saying i want to call plays, i came in and interviewed for a position coaching spot on the varsity knowing i would not be calling plays. By 'did whatever i want' i meant the former frosh HC didnt care if we were run heavy or pass heavy, if we ran Jet Sweep instead of OS Zone, etc. I wasnt allowed to run 'my own offense' but i had freedom to operate within the system in place. For some i can see where 'there is no gameplanning' in Freshman football but that isnt my belief, dont get me wrong here im not saying im trying to scheme people like belichick but theres more to it than 'these are the three plays we run, we will run them to death even if they dont work'. And i agree frosh football is all about fundamentals, trust me i know this i must say it a few times a week but you still have to have some elements of strategy. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 24, 2020 6:33:39 GMT -6
I don't, based on the fact that the return of this guy also results in last seasons Frosh HC having his role diminished as well. Although I guess that is possible, since based on the posts by the OP, it seems that the Varsity HC really doesn't have a grasp on professionalism in handling his staff. As the story unfolds, I really think there is a chance that at the interview, the OP's talk about playcalling may have turned off the Varsity HC. I can see him thinking "Oh, one of those guys..." and not wanting him interfering with the chemistry of the varsity staff. Also, I was kind of surprised when I read the OP saying that he "did whatever he wanted" on offense, having 5 freshman coaches, not knowing what the program does for JV with regards for coaching, etc. I am just having trouble wrapping my head around this whole set up. And to echo wolverine55 's sentiments above, I have never seen freshman ball ever been remotely close to (much less on par with) Varsity ball with regards to any type of importance or intensity. Being a play caller for the frosh team is generally picking from one of perhaps 2, maybe 3 formations and just 4-6 core Varsity plays. There is little to no gameplanning, in game adjustments, or even much strategy for that matter. It is fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals, and then.. fundamentals. That is what equals success at the Frosh level and then leads to further success at the Varsity. From what i have gathered, no one in the program wants to be the Frosh HC and after one year i can kind of see why. From what information i have the guy coming down to be the Frosh HC is doing the varsity HC a favor by reassuming the role, he hasnt been demoted he is just doing a favor because the Frosh HC last year has essentially refused to be the HC again. In the interview i didnt bring up play calling until the offer of Frosh OC was put out there. I didnt come in saying i want to call plays, i came in and interviewed for a position coaching spot on the varsity knowing i would not be calling plays. By 'did whatever i want' i meant the former frosh HC didnt care if we were run heavy or pass heavy, if we ran Jet Sweep instead of OS Zone, etc. I wasnt allowed to run 'my own offense' but i had freedom to operate within the system in place. For some i can see where 'there is no gameplanning' in Freshman football but that isnt my belief, dont get me wrong here im not saying im trying to scheme people like belichick but theres more to it than 'these are the three plays we run, we will run them to death even if they dont work'. And i agree frosh football is all about fundamentals, trust me i know this i must say it a few times a week but you still have to have some elements of strategy. I understand. My point is that if you came in interviewing for a varsity position, and during that interview the HC brought up and then let you accept a freshman position that is so separate from the varsity that you apparently have not spoken to the HC in a while and you are finding out about staffing from someone other than the varsity HC , he isnt very interested in you. I would look to move elsewhere. At least that is how it looks from the cheap seats here. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 24, 2020 6:42:08 GMT -6
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Post by Defcord on Feb 24, 2020 9:04:13 GMT -6
So have you had any contact with the HC about the changes yet?
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Post by CS on Feb 24, 2020 10:41:27 GMT -6
I don't, based on the fact that the return of this guy also results in last seasons Frosh HC having his role diminished as well. Although I guess that is possible, since based on the posts by the OP, it seems that the Varsity HC really doesn't have a grasp on professionalism in handling his staff. As the story unfolds, I really think there is a chance that at the interview, the OP's talk about playcalling may have turned off the Varsity HC. I can see him thinking "Oh, one of those guys..." and not wanting him interfering with the chemistry of the varsity staff. Also, I was kind of surprised when I read the OP saying that he "did whatever he wanted" on offense, having 5 freshman coaches, not knowing what the program does for JV with regards for coaching, etc. I am just having trouble wrapping my head around this whole set up. And to echo wolverine55 's sentiments above, I have never seen freshman ball ever been remotely close to (much less on par with) Varsity ball with regards to any type of importance or intensity. Being a play caller for the frosh team is generally picking from one of perhaps 2, maybe 3 formations and just 4-6 core Varsity plays. There is little to no gameplanning, in game adjustments, or even much strategy for that matter. It is fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals, and then.. fundamentals. That is what equals success at the Frosh level and then leads to further success at the Varsity. From what i have gathered, no one in the program wants to be the Frosh HC and after one year i can kind of see why. From what information i have the guy coming down to be the Frosh HC is doing the varsity HC a favor by reassuming the role, he hasnt been demoted he is just doing a favor because the Frosh HC last year has essentially refused to be the HC again. In the interview i didnt bring up play calling until the offer of Frosh OC was put out there. I didnt come in saying i want to call plays, i came in and interviewed for a position coaching spot on the varsity knowing i would not be calling plays. By 'did whatever i want' i meant the former frosh HC didnt care if we were run heavy or pass heavy, if we ran Jet Sweep instead of OS Zone, etc. I wasnt allowed to run 'my own offense' but i had freedom to operate within the system in place. For some i can see where 'there is no gameplanning' in Freshman football but that isnt my belief, dont get me wrong here im not saying im trying to scheme people like belichick but theres more to it than 'these are the three plays we run, we will run them to death even if they dont work'. And i agree frosh football is all about fundamentals, trust me i know this i must say it a few times a week but you still have to have some elements of strategy. That dude got demoted. I could do a "favor" for my header also but I was doing my freaking job too well to be asked to go down to the JV level. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 24, 2020 11:04:50 GMT -6
From what i have gathered, no one in the program wants to be the Frosh HC and after one year i can kind of see why. From what information i have the guy coming down to be the Frosh HC is doing the varsity HC a favor by reassuming the role, he hasnt been demoted he is just doing a favor because the Frosh HC last year has essentially refused to be the HC again. In the interview i didnt bring up play calling until the offer of Frosh OC was put out there. I didnt come in saying i want to call plays, i came in and interviewed for a position coaching spot on the varsity knowing i would not be calling plays. By 'did whatever i want' i meant the former frosh HC didnt care if we were run heavy or pass heavy, if we ran Jet Sweep instead of OS Zone, etc. I wasnt allowed to run 'my own offense' but i had freedom to operate within the system in place. For some i can see where 'there is no gameplanning' in Freshman football but that isnt my belief, dont get me wrong here im not saying im trying to scheme people like belichick but theres more to it than 'these are the three plays we run, we will run them to death even if they dont work'. And i agree frosh football is all about fundamentals, trust me i know this i must say it a few times a week but you still have to have some elements of strategy. That dude got demoted. I could do a "favor" for my header also but I was doing my freaking job too well to be asked to go down to the JV level. That could be the case. But it could also be several other things. Maybe he stepped up to Varsity, found it was too intense/time consuming and wanted to go back down. Maybe the guy wanted to be a Frosh guy, and did the favor last year moving up to help fill the need on varsity. It is hard to say. What seems pretty evident though is that the Varsity HC doesn't really value the OP here. |
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Post by dytmook on Feb 24, 2020 11:57:44 GMT -6
Does the guy who "refused" to be Frosh HC again still have a job? There seems to be a lot to unpack here.
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Post by coachscdub on Feb 24, 2020 19:24:45 GMT -6
Does the guy who "refused" to be Frosh HC again still have a job? There seems to be a lot to unpack here. Yes he will be the DC on the frosh level |
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Post by coachscdub on Feb 24, 2020 19:25:03 GMT -6
So have you had any contact with the HC about the changes yet? No |
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Post by Defcord on Feb 25, 2020 5:08:00 GMT -6
So have you had any contact with the HC about the changes yet? No Why haven’t you called him? That seems like the fastest way to sort all of this out. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 25, 2020 7:03:28 GMT -6
Why haven’t you called him? That seems like the fastest way to sort all of this out. Not much to really sort out is there? The issue now is that the OP needs to decide if this is a program in which he can see himself enjoying his stay. Based on the two pages of posts here and the OPs side of the story, either this program is so big that I can't wrap my head around the differences between it and any other program I have been a part of, or I don't think I would enjoy working for the Varsity HC. |
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Post by Defcord on Feb 25, 2020 8:35:21 GMT -6
Why haven’t you called him? That seems like the fastest way to sort all of this out. Not much to really sort out is there? The issue now is that the OP needs to decide if this is a program in which he can see himself enjoying his stay. Based on the two pages of posts here and the OPs side of the story, either this program is so big that I can't wrap my head around the differences between it and any other program I have been a part of, or I don't think I would enjoy working for the Varsity HC. You don't think having a conversation with the head coach would you help you make a decision, especially on the final part of your statement? |
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Post by coachcb on Feb 25, 2020 9:04:22 GMT -6
He texted you....get out when you can. Sorry but any HC that doesn't honor the relationship enough to sit down face to face, man to man and have a conversation is not someone I want to work for/with. That is some unprofessional BS right there.
Although I agree that informing the OP of the change via text wasn't a professional move, I wouldn't go this far. We live in an age where virtually everything is done via text or email. And, sometimes with good reason; you want a record of what was stated.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 25, 2020 9:18:01 GMT -6
He texted you....get out when you can. Sorry but any HC that doesn't honor the relationship enough to sit down face to face, man to man and have a conversation is not someone I want to work for/with. That is some unprofessional BS right there.
Although I agree that informing the OP of the change via text wasn't a professional move, I wouldn't go this far. We live in an age where virtually everything is done via text or email. And, sometimes with good reason; you want a record of what was stated.
. But it wasn’t even the Varsity HC that texted. It was the new (old) frosh HC with whom the OP presumably has had minimal if any contact. |
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Post by Defcord on Feb 25, 2020 9:24:19 GMT -6
He texted you....get out when you can. Sorry but any HC that doesn't honor the relationship enough to sit down face to face, man to man and have a conversation is not someone I want to work for/with. That is some unprofessional BS right there.
Although I agree that informing the OP of the change via text wasn't a professional move, I wouldn't go this far. We live in an age where virtually everything is done via text or email. And, sometimes with good reason; you want a record of what was stated.
I agree that having a record is a good thing. But why not talk in person and then send a follow up email "Just want to follow up our conversation about......." Or Start with email "Hey we are going to make some changes to the staff. Here is my plan, but would like to sit down and talk to you about it as well." There's too large a lack of context in electronic messaging to do everything completely by email or text. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 25, 2020 9:50:30 GMT -6
Not much to really sort out is there? The issue now is that the OP needs to decide if this is a program in which he can see himself enjoying his stay. Based on the two pages of posts here and the OPs side of the story, either this program is so big that I can't wrap my head around the differences between it and any other program I have been a part of, or I don't think I would enjoy working for the Varsity HC. You don't think having a conversation with the head coach would you help you make a decision, especially on the final part of your statement? This is probably one of those cases where each individual situation would be different. For me, knowing what I feel is my worth, the fact that in this situation I would be the one to initiate the conversation pretty much makes my mind for me. But again, that is me, with my experience. I have never experienced a HS football program with 5 freshmen coaches that are all separate from the Varsity. So separate in fact, that the Varsity HC doesn't tell the Frosh staff about coaching changes. Since I have never been in that environment, maybe my take on the situation is all wrong. But from my perspective, the OP went in for a Varsity interview, was offered a Frosh Position, took the frosh position, hasn't spoken with the Varsity HC in a long time (not sure if that includes during the season) and was told via text from a guy he actually didn't work with last season of staff changes. From where I sit, the HC is either inept at managing personnel, or doesn't really value the OPs contribution to the program. For me, again, if I were in the OPs situation, I know a phone call would lead to me expressing those two options to the HC. If I had already decided to stay, then the phone call would probably change that. |
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Post by bjohnson on Feb 25, 2020 10:32:34 GMT -6
Just step up and contact the head coach and ask for a meeting and find out what is going on. If you have any concerns make sure you express them. If, after this meeting, you can accept your role then do it the best you can and forget about how this went down, it's over. If you can't accept it then tell the head coach you will be going elsewhere.
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Post by macdiiddy on Feb 25, 2020 12:30:29 GMT -6
I feel like a third of the comments have said something about contacting the head coach, and I agree.
Something as simple as, "Can we talk about my role in the program and where you see it going forward?"
That is the perfect catalyst to lay out where you find your passion, how the whole thing was handled and if the HC can help you achieve your goals of being a play caller. If that is your true desire and he can not give you some assurance that Frosh or JV play calling can be in your future, then yes, run. You grudgingly staying there and not being happy is not good for you or the program.
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Post by Defcord on Feb 25, 2020 16:13:00 GMT -6
You don't think having a conversation with the head coach would you help you make a decision, especially on the final part of your statement? This is probably one of those cases where each individual situation would be different. For me, knowing what I feel is my worth, the fact that in this situation I would be the one to initiate the conversation pretty much makes my mind for me. But again, that is me, with my experience. I have never experienced a HS football program with 5 freshmen coaches that are all separate from the Varsity. So separate in fact, that the Varsity HC doesn't tell the Frosh staff about coaching changes. Since I have never been in that environment, maybe my take on the situation is all wrong. But from my perspective, the OP went in for a Varsity interview, was offered a Frosh Position, took the frosh position, hasn't spoken with the Varsity HC in a long time (not sure if that includes during the season) and was told via text from a guy he actually didn't work with last season of staff changes. From where I sit, the HC is either inept at managing personnel, or doesn't really value the OPs contribution to the program. For me, again, if I were in the OPs situation, I know a phone call would lead to me expressing those two options to the HC. If I had already decided to stay, then the phone call would probably change that. I think I agree with you. Basically, the fact you have to make the call means you’re in a situation you aren’t comfortable with. I would still make the call for two reasons. First, the guy coming back down to frosh level may be doing all of this on his own without informing the head coach. Second, I just don’t like being in the dark on stuff. The entire situation seems to be a mess and I would just want some clarity from all parties before making a decision even if leaving was likely. |
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Post by coachscdub on Feb 26, 2020 2:53:49 GMT -6
Update... kind of
We had practice tonight and i briefly spoke with the Var HC. He told me that he thought it would be beneficial for me to work with (under) the new frosh HC as he is a regimented coach who has experience within their offense, and that if i wanted to be a coordinator in the future it would be a good opportunity for me to learn and gain some experience.
He did not mention anything else about staff moves or anything of that nature, he just told me to try and learn from the varsity OL coach about their steps/drills/language etc going forward and in to the summer.
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