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Post by coachcb on Oct 22, 2018 6:23:42 GMT -6
just had 1 that basically has shut it down, as he is a basketball stud. shoulder hurt, but not so bad he couldnt play, knee "hurts" so hes sitting for 2 weeks, per doctors instruction.... we have 3 games left. I think many of us have run into these scenarios with some multiple sport athletes, and not just in football. We had sprinter bail on us in track a few years back because of tendonitis in his knee. He was cleared to participate by the doctor but the kid was positive it was a serious injury that was going to affect his basketball career.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 22, 2018 17:58:44 GMT -6
just had 1 that basically has shut it down, as he is a basketball stud. shoulder hurt, but not so bad he couldnt play, knee "hurts" so hes sitting for 2 weeks, per doctors instruction.... we have 3 games left. I think many of us have run into these scenarios with some multiple sport athletes, and not just in football. We had sprinter bail on us in track a few years back because of tendonitis in his knee. He was cleared to participate by the doctor but the kid was positive it was a serious injury that was going to affect his basketball career. So is that any different than what is going on at OSU in principle?
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Post by CS on Oct 22, 2018 18:32:27 GMT -6
I think many of us have run into these scenarios with some multiple sport athletes, and not just in football. We had sprinter bail on us in track a few years back because of tendonitis in his knee. He was cleared to participate by the doctor but the kid was positive it was a serious injury that was going to affect his basketball career. So is that any different than what is going on at OSU in principle? Seems that way. And it’s more common in high school i’de bet. Maybe more of a trickling up scenario
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Post by coachcb on Oct 23, 2018 6:44:14 GMT -6
I think many of us have run into these scenarios with some multiple sport athletes, and not just in football. We had sprinter bail on us in track a few years back because of tendonitis in his knee. He was cleared to participate by the doctor but the kid was positive it was a serious injury that was going to affect his basketball career. So is that any different than what is going on at OSU in principle? Nope, it isn't.
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Post by mattman2 on Oct 24, 2018 20:16:37 GMT -6
Haven’t kids been graduating early and missing winter and spring sports to go to college early?
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 24, 2018 21:24:20 GMT -6
Haven’t kids been graduating early and missing winter and spring sports to go to college early? yes, but the difference here is that the "campaign" so to speak had already begun. OSU had already begun the season, a season in which Bosa was voted team captain and that up until last weekend saw OSU undefeated and a clear favorite for a spot in the CFP. Just my thoughts on it, but I would say that is a different scenario than if in May 2018 Bosa had said "You know what, I like my chances in the 2019 draft. I am not going to play in 2018-2019"
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Post by coachks on Oct 25, 2018 11:18:10 GMT -6
. If he was cleared now and shut down it would be a lot different from coming back in December. Why though? Doesn't cleared mean cleared? If he were cleared in December wouldn't he face the same potential risk to re-injure as he would if he were cleared now and played against Purdue tonight? To be clear, I am not saying people should throw stones at Bosa. I am simply saying this is just a complex situation, for me anyway. Now, maybe OSU loses to Michigan in a few weeks, and it doesn't matter because their December/January games become "meaningless" relative to how the sports society now few games. And I am surprised I have this type of opinion, because I am not really a fan of the CFP. But where it gets sticky for me is there are 100+other guys who have been working hard for years to be a part of a championship team, but now because I got potentially a 15- 18 million dollar signing bonus (not sure if that is generational wealth, but it is still a nice chunk of change) with a potential total contract around 20-25 million for 4 years ..well, bye guys. Because College Football itself is a closed system with ridiculous responsibilities and restrictions. By withdrawing at OSU, Bosa is now free to work with an Agent, work with private rehabilitation facilities, private doctors who specialize in his injury, work with private trainers, be paid for endorsement, accept money from an agent for future earnings. These are tangible differences. If you want a real comparison, how about we compare what he has done to the coaching carousel. How many universities quit on their teams by firing a coach DURING the season. How many coaches quit on their team by accepting a new position before the bowl game? Why don't we look at the recruiting process. How many commits are processed (they make a verbal commitment, a better recruit then commits, and the first one is no longer signable). How many players have their scholarships non-renewed? The bottom line is the player was seriously hurt. By most reports he is out for the entire regular season and MAY have been available for a bowl game [IE, a scrimmage] or the playoffs. What percentage would he be able to play at? Does he risk re-injury by coming back for a Bowl game? Would it be better if he waiting until OSU lost to Purdue and THEN gave up on the team and withdrew since they won't be going to the playoffs. That's worse, IMO. This isn't Leveon Bell who is throwing a temper tantrum about the rules and being dishonest with people. This isn't a healthy player who is foregoing a season to save himself. This is a serious injury, and the BEST route back for the player is to be able to rehab in private and comfort with 1 on 1, professional care. That is not going to happen at OSU (or any college). A bad combine performance following this injury is a multi-million dollar risk. And I hate Ohio State, but any criticism of this is ridiculous.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 25, 2018 19:03:49 GMT -6
Why though? Doesn't cleared mean cleared? If he were cleared in December wouldn't he face the same potential risk to re-injure as he would if he were cleared now and played against Purdue tonight? To be clear, I am not saying people should throw stones at Bosa. I am simply saying this is just a complex situation, for me anyway. Now, maybe OSU loses to Michigan in a few weeks, and it doesn't matter because their December/January games become "meaningless" relative to how the sports society now few games. And I am surprised I have this type of opinion, because I am not really a fan of the CFP. But where it gets sticky for me is there are 100+other guys who have been working hard for years to be a part of a championship team, but now because I got potentially a 15- 18 million dollar signing bonus (not sure if that is generational wealth, but it is still a nice chunk of change) with a potential total contract around 20-25 million for 4 years ..well, bye guys. Because College Football itself is a closed system with ridiculous responsibilities and restrictions. By withdrawing at OSU, Bosa is now free to work with an Agent, work with private rehabilitation facilities, private doctors who specialize in his injury, work with private trainers, be paid for endorsement, accept money from an agent for future earnings. These are tangible differences. If you want a real comparison, how about we compare what he has done to the coaching carousel. How many universities quit on their teams by firing a coach DURING the season. How many coaches quit on their team by accepting a new position before the bowl game? Why don't we look at the recruiting process. How many commits are processed (they make a verbal commitment, a better recruit then commits, and the first one is no longer signable). How many players have their scholarships non-renewed? The bottom line is the player was seriously hurt. By most reports he is out for the entire regular season and MAY have been available for a bowl game [IE, a scrimmage] or the playoffs. What percentage would he be able to play at? Does he risk re-injury by coming back for a Bowl game? Would it be better if he waiting until OSU lost to Purdue and THEN gave up on the team and withdrew since they won't be going to the playoffs. That's worse, IMO. This isn't Leveon Bell who is throwing a temper tantrum about the rules and being dishonest with people. This isn't a healthy player who is foregoing a season to save himself. This is a serious injury, and the BEST route back for the player is to be able to rehab in private and comfort with 1 on 1, professional care. That is not going to happen at OSU (or any college). A bad combine performance following this injury is a multi-million dollar risk. And I hate Ohio State, but any criticism of this is ridiculous. I agree with everything you said until you got to Le'Veon Bell. The Steelers front office and ownership made a business decision by franchise tagging him and potentially costing him millions of dollars on the free agent market. Why doesn't Bell get the same benefit of the doubt? His holdout is a calculated business decision. Good for him. I hope he gets paid.
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mc140
Sophomore Member
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Post by mc140 on Oct 29, 2018 0:53:03 GMT -6
There was a nearby school that had a nationally top 100 player committed to an SEC school sit out almost his whole senior season with a minor injury. He was saving his body for college play. He lasted one semester in college.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 11, 2018 20:46:24 GMT -6
Side note-- the number of players sitting out of bowl games this year has reached double digits.
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Post by 19delta on Dec 12, 2018 4:11:24 GMT -6
Side note-- the number of players sitting out of bowl games this year has reached double digits. Good for those kids. I hope it continues to be an issue for the NCAA.
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Post by KYCoach2331 on Dec 12, 2018 10:59:52 GMT -6
I’m sure other than the CFP, most of these coaches dont care that they sit out. Yeah they’re trying to win, but the best part about making a bowl is the extra practices they get. Someone who is going to be there next year is getting extra reps now!
Until coaches quit leaving for new jobs before the bowl game I won’t ever be upset at a player for doing this. I don’t get upset at coaches either.
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Post by gccwolverine on Dec 12, 2018 11:27:59 GMT -6
Side note-- the number of players sitting out of bowl games this year has reached double digits. Good for those kids. I hope it continues to be an issue for the NCAA. why play any games then? Let's just shut the whole thing down (no more games) so that way we assure we aren't exploiting anyone.
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Post by coachdavis11 on Dec 12, 2018 12:18:38 GMT -6
We had a kid not play football last year cause of a knee injury cause he thought he was a big time baseball player... Zero offer... JC didn't even want him....
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Post by gian3074 on Dec 12, 2018 12:52:08 GMT -6
Good for those kids. I hope it continues to be an issue for the NCAA. why play any games then? Let's just shut the whole thing down (no more games) so that way we assure we aren't exploiting anyone. The best solution would be a minor league system where they can play (with pay) from 18-21 and develop skills under the tutoring of NFL-style coaches and schemes. Would stop NFL coaches from complaining that college kids don't get coached to play in the NFL and would make professional football look like other leagues (MLB, NHL).
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Post by gccwolverine on Dec 12, 2018 13:02:11 GMT -6
why play any games then? Let's just shut the whole thing down (no more games) so that way we assure we aren't exploiting anyone. The best solution would be a minor league system where they can play (with pay) from 18-21 and develop skills under the tutoring of NFL-style coaches and schemes. Would stop NFL coaches from complaining that college kids don't get coached to play in the NFL and would make professional football look like other leagues (MLB, NHL). not the best solution. 250ish kids a year get drafted that's it and even fewer make it to a roster. Just because a portion of college scholarship players can't see a path to extracting value out of the educational opportunities provided to them, doesn't mean we should blow up the system for those individuals, in great number, who benefit from the system as it is. There are dudes out there majoring in aeronautical engineering, architecture, computer science, whatever else... and getting great lifetime value from their deal as it is. Let's not blow that up so a few guys can make 75K a year for 4 years until they may or may not become good enough to be draft eligible. The best solution is keep the system as is - expand cost of attendance stipends - allow student athletes to retain rights to their name and the ability to profit off of it - allow them to sign autographs and sell memorabilia - and provide life time medical and life time educational scholarship opportunities It's not anyone but Rasahd Mccants fault that he didn't take his educational opportunities seriously and took joke classes at UNC
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Post by fantom on Dec 12, 2018 14:41:37 GMT -6
why play any games then? Let's just shut the whole thing down (no more games) so that way we assure we aren't exploiting anyone. The best solution would be a minor league system where they can play (with pay) from 18-21 and develop skills under the tutoring of NFL-style coaches and schemes. Would stop NFL coaches from complaining that college kids don't get coached to play in the NFL and would make professional football look like other leagues (MLB, NHL). Who would pay for it?
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 12, 2018 19:48:57 GMT -6
The best solution would be a minor league system where they can play (with pay) from 18-21 and develop skills under the tutoring of NFL-style coaches and schemes. Would stop NFL coaches from complaining that college kids don't get coached to play in the NFL and would make professional football look like other leagues (MLB, NHL). Who would pay for it? the NFL. I agree with gian3074 that it is the best solution. However, it is also one of the least likely things to happen. But that doesn't mean it isn't the best solution. gccwolverine how is creating an environment where those who want to play COLLEGE football (and be student athletes) can do so against other student athletes, and those who have little to no interest in higher ed and just want to play football can do so as well "blowing it up" It has worked quite well in baseball throughout my lifetime. A highly unlikely situation, but with the two new football leagues being formed, who knows? Maybe things will change the next 20-25 years or so. While I understand where 19delta is coming from regarding exploiting I have to ask, if in 2015 Bosa, Greedy Williams (LSU Db) Ed Oliver etc all joined a semi pro league instead of going to OSU, LSU and Houston...would anyone have gone to the games? Fans care a whole lot more about the name on the front of the jersey than the back.
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Post by s73 on Dec 12, 2018 19:54:43 GMT -6
It seems absurd to say it, but does anyone here think that holding out (or more accurately saving yourself for "the next level" ) trickle down to HS ball? As crazy as it sounds, it would have sounded crazy a decade ago to have college players sit out and now we not only have players not playing in bowl games, but a potential top 5 pick and all america candidate deciding to not return to play for Ohio State after an injury this year. If I ever get a player good enough that he can "hold out" his senior year so as not to risk losing his power 5 scholly then I'll thank my lucky stars I had him for 3 years.
In the meantime, a commoner like myself has little to worry about.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 29, 2018 16:58:20 GMT -6
Thought it might be interesting from a coaching perspective to see how those sitting out impacted games. Michigan would be an example of this trend negatively impacting the team. Houston might be as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2018 18:15:35 GMT -6
Thought it might be interesting from a coaching perspective to see how those sitting out impacted games. Michigan would be an example of this trend negatively impacting the team. Houston might be as well. The media and fans seem to be pointing their fingers at the coaches, not the players “opting out” (aka “quitting before the bowl to prep for the NFL”) weakening their teams. I just read an article that said Harbaugh must switch to a spread offense if he wants to win and keep his job. That was apparently what caused the bowl embarrassment to Florida and the blowout by OSU before it. Houston is reportedly considering firing Applewhite, even though he went into that game with a skeleton crew due to injuries and holdouts.
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Post by Chris Clement on Dec 30, 2018 21:47:01 GMT -6
Wut?
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Post by freezeoption on Dec 31, 2018 12:32:45 GMT -6
Our All star Lions game has been hit with kids not wanting to play because of college. I guess the good of it the lesser known players getting seen.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 31, 2018 13:51:30 GMT -6
Our All star Lions game has been hit with kids not wanting to play because of college. I guess the good of it the lesser known players getting seen. Is that a recent development? That trend goes back more than 20 years here in Louisiana. Football is just not an "all-star" sport. Too much interaction between players. However our state all-star game was in the summer, which may create an apples/ apple sauce comparison to a fall contest. Recently there were some inter parish (county) all star games, but I can't find any evidence of one this year.
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Post by freezeoption on Dec 31, 2018 14:13:31 GMT -6
Our Lions game usually took place first week in June. I was in a state where the Shriners sponsored the all star game and the state was divided into 4 districts and each district had their own all star game. I think the Lions game has loss importance here in the past 10 years.
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Post by Chris Clement on Dec 31, 2018 14:45:28 GMT -6
Ok but can we be frank and say that these allstar games suck? I’ve coached a few and they’re glorified scrimmages where we need a ton of house rules and the quality of play is crap because you’re installing in three days and then the game comes down to who better exploited the handshake agreement over formations or blitzes some crap. If I’m already going somewhere to play football I don’t need the validation that comes from this game as much as the next kid in for whom this is the pinnacle of their career and the last chance they’ll ever have.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 31, 2018 15:04:09 GMT -6
Ok but can we be frank and say that these allstar games suck? I’ve coached a few and they’re glorified scrimmages where we need a ton of house rules and the quality of play is crap because you’re installing in three days and then the game comes down to who better exploited the handshake agreement over formations or blitzes some crap. If I’m already going somewhere to play football I don’t need the validation that comes from this game as much as the next kid in for whom this is the pinnacle of their career and the last chance they’ll ever have. Absolutely. As I stated, football is not an "all-star" sport. I don't know if sitting out a bowl game is an anyway a comparable situation. Now, HS kids packing it in once there team is can't win district or whatever, that could be a good comparison.
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Post by fballcoachg on Dec 31, 2018 18:44:16 GMT -6
Our All star Lions game has been hit with kids not wanting to play because of college. I guess the good of it the lesser known players getting seen. any of our kids that are planning to play in college that get invited to any all star game I advise to sit it out.
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Post by td4tc on Dec 31, 2018 19:08:00 GMT -6
Another related point, not to highjack the thread, but when are we going to see guys shutting down mid season when they have shown enough to be a legit first or second rounder but are playing on a team that is going nowhere. Why is a later in the season nothing game any different than a bowl game?
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 23, 2019 19:35:01 GMT -6
--UPDATE-- apparently Houston's senior returning starting quarterback who threw for 2,900 yards and 36 touchdowns and rushed for another 674 yards and 14 touchdowns is sitting out the rest of the year so that he can redshirt "avoid having a wasted year" (according to his father) after a lackluster start to the season. The player himself said he is absolutely returning to Houston, but his father contradicted that and said the family would be weighing their options (ie, transfer portal).
Also, South Carolina DB Jamyest Williams, started the first 3 games of the season, but did not start week four, is also sitting out the remainder of the year and sources say he will be entering the transfer portal.
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