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Post by unc31 on Mar 6, 2018 11:37:25 GMT -6
I have a players who is always late by a minute or two no matter if it is practice, S&C class, team meetings, etc. We have tried it all. Punishment such as gassers, peer pressure where whole team has gassers if he is late, playing time cut, points off his grade in S&C class, getting written up for tardy in S&C class, etc. and absolutely nothing motivates him to be on time.
If he didn't work hard it would be a lot easier to just boot him out of the program, but he works very hard. It is getting started that is the problem. I am at a loss short of kicking him out of the program. He is a decent player but not an All American......not that it would be any easier if he were.
Any ideas? I have been a head coach for 32 years and never experienced this level of this tardy problem.
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Post by realdawg on Mar 6, 2018 11:39:48 GMT -6
Coach-we have several kids who are the same way. We have them on teams in wt training where they earn points every day. Tardy to class is minus 2. No exceptions. No excuses. It’s helped us. Like you said if he w as a loader it would be easy to cut him. But since he is a hard worker it makes it hard. Maybe just take 2 points off his grade every day.
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Post by coachpappy on Mar 6, 2018 11:40:42 GMT -6
Pick him up on the way into school. Attach a team leader to him to bring him to practice
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Post by tim914790 on Mar 6, 2018 11:43:37 GMT -6
Reward the kids who do all the stuff right. If you aren't going to kick him off (and probably shouldn't if he works hard) then just reward the kids with some sort of pizza or donut type thing at the end of each testing cycle. However you need to organize the reward system to exclude him and others like him until they start showing the effort or that they care to make it on time. If they never do then be content with them not getting the reward or discipline, suspend, remove.
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Post by fkaboneyard on Mar 6, 2018 14:27:11 GMT -6
A couple questions - is everybody on the same page about the kid? By that I mean, will all the coaches hold his feet to the fire or just you? If some of the staff will let it slide it won't work.
You said you had tried many things - how long did you try them before you moved on to the next type of punishment? Sometimes a kid won't initially respond and it becomes a test of wills, but eventually breaks when it's clear you won't let up.
We had a really talented kid that was late to every practice - either because he was talking to his girlfriend or getting taped. No punishment changed him but continuing to enforce the punishment kept other kids from doing it.
edit - by the way, the punishment was 4 50-yard barrel rolls which everybody hated, most puked after doing that many.
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Post by PSS on Mar 6, 2018 14:36:56 GMT -6
Make the team accountable. If one is late, everyone receives the punishment. Whether you do log rolls or up-downs everyone does them. Your team leaders should step up and make sure and hold the person accountable.
Your team should be like a brotherhood. They need to be accountable in order to establish this.
If one person is late for roll call during our period then everyone does 25 up-downs. They have 5 minutes from the bell to get changed and in line for roll call. It stopped kids from being late.
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Post by cwaltsmith on Mar 6, 2018 14:41:11 GMT -6
Easier said than done... but if it is important to you then make it important by making tough consequences. If its not a big deal then don't make it a big deal. If being on time is a huge deal to you... then make playing time a consequence for being late. If you don't then don't.
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coachriley
Junior Member
"Tough times don't last; Tough people do."
Posts: 406
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Post by coachriley on Mar 6, 2018 15:24:48 GMT -6
Give every person on the team some "physical motivation" (up-downs, bear crawls, log rolls, whatever you want) as soon as the period, practice, whatever it may be has started. And continue the "motivation" until that player has arrived to the role call area.
And if it was me, I would be very vocal to all the kids that were on time why we were doing the extra motivation, and point out the tardy student as soon as he gets to practice, and thank him for allowing his teammates to get some rest.
Of course, I can be a jerk sometimes, but the times we have had to do something similar, the situation seemed to fix itself pretty quickly.
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dbeck84
Sophomore Member
Posts: 170
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Post by dbeck84 on Mar 6, 2018 18:57:05 GMT -6
Why is he late? Are his parents around? Does he have trouble getting rides or getting mom or dad out the door on time? Does he have little brothers and sisters he is responsible for?
If the kid is just being lazy, then punishment is warranted. It sounds like he is a hard worker who wants to be involved with the team. There might be something else going on.
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Post by lilbuck1103 on Mar 6, 2018 19:32:54 GMT -6
But at the same time, continually allowing him to be late sets a bad example and promotes bad habits for him. If he showed up late this much to a job, he'd quickly lose the job, regardless of his work ethic. If you're late - you miss and aren't allowed in might be a good strategy. Make all these decisions with the next kid in mind, the next kid who may be watching what happens to this kid and is deciding whether it is important for him to be on time.
If time and being on time is important to you / program, then a strong message needs to be sent that it won't be tolerated to be late ALL the time, even if that means moving on from him. After awhile, you enable the behavior by continually allowing him to be a part of it, but not have to follow the same expectations. It's not as if it is in just one area, it is in many areas that he is affiliated with you and the program and has determined that being late is okay.
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Post by 19delta on Mar 6, 2018 21:24:11 GMT -6
Make the team accountable. If one is late, everyone receives the punishment. Whether you do log rolls or up-downs everyone does them. Your team leaders should step up and make sure and hold the person accountable. Your team should be like a brotherhood. They need to be accountable in order to establish this. If one person is late for roll call during our period then everyone does 25 up-downs. They have 5 minutes from the bell to get changed and in line for roll call. It stopped kids from being late. So the kids who are on time are going to get punished? The kids who are doing what they are supposed to? How exactly do you expect that punishing the good kids is going to result in the late kid being on time? What actions are you expecting the "team leaders" to take to "hold the person accountable"? Sorry, but I think that is completely wrong. Reminds me of this: If there is a kid who is late, or he is violating some team rule, it's not the responsibility of the other kids, who are following the rules, to correct his behavior. It's the responsibility of the coaches (the adults). If the kid is late, he faces the consequence (whatever that is...up-downs, picking up equipment at the end of practice, reduced playing time, whatever). If those measures don't correct the behavior, then the seriousness of the consequence have to be elevated. For example..."Hey Johnny...you were late every day to practice last week. We have talked about why it is disruptive and disrespectful for you to be late all the time and we have tried to correct your behavior. However, you will late once again today. As a result, you aren't going to get to participate in practice today or dress for the game this week. You will perform the duties of a manager in practice today. And, from this point on, for every day you are late, you will not be allowed to dress for practice that day or participate in the game that week. Do you understand?" The next step would be to not allow him to attend practice for an entire week. After that, I would look at ways to dismiss him from the team. If it was me, I would not make a huge deal out of it. If the kid was chronically late, then I would have him put the equipment away every day after practice that he is late. That would be his punishment. |
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Post by 19delta on Mar 6, 2018 21:27:20 GMT -6
Why is he late? Are his parents around? Does he have trouble getting rides or getting mom or dad out the door on time? Does he have little brothers and sisters he is responsible for? If the kid is just being lazy, then punishment is warranted. It sounds like he is a hard worker who wants to be involved with the team. There might be something else going on. Yeah...I would need to know the context of his chronic tardiness. If he has some legit reasons for being late, that is one thing. But if he is dicking around after school and taking his own sweet time because he thinks he is entitled to it, well...that's not acceptable. |
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Post by 19delta on Mar 6, 2018 21:29:29 GMT -6
Give every person on the team some "physical motivation" (up-downs, bear crawls, log rolls, whatever you want) as soon as the period, practice, whatever it may be has started. And continue the "motivation" until that player has arrived to the role call area. And if it was me, I would be very vocal to all the kids that were on time why we were doing the extra motivation, and point out the tardy student as soon as he gets to practice, and thank him for allowing his teammates to get some rest. Of course, I can be a jerk sometimes, but the times we have had to do something similar, the situation seemed to fix itself pretty quickly. Again...I don't get this. What specific action do you hope the other kids (the kids who are on time) will take to remedy this situation? |
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Post by utchuckd on Mar 6, 2018 21:33:25 GMT -6
Get a PIE wheel. Everybody who is late gets a piece of pie after practice.
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Post by silkyice on Mar 6, 2018 21:33:50 GMT -6
Why is he late? Are his parents around? Does he have trouble getting rides or getting mom or dad out the door on time? Does he have little brothers and sisters he is responsible for? If the kid is just being lazy, then punishment is warranted. It sounds like he is a hard worker who wants to be involved with the team. There might be something else going on. This is what I was going to ask. Why is he late? Ride, parents, girlfriend? Is he embarrassed about something? Is he using the bathroom? Does he not like getting dressed in front of others? There just might be some reason that is greater than the punishment in his mind. 100% just making up an example. Kid has to change shirts to go workout. That means someone might see his weird looking birthmark on his chest that someone made fun of years ago. So he waits until everyone leaves and no one can see him change shirts, so he is always late. He would rather do bear crawls than someone see that birthmark. |
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Post by Defcord on Mar 7, 2018 6:56:55 GMT -6
I am with those that oppose punishing the whole group for the actions of the individual. I understand that at times it is an effective method of motivation, but at the same time it can also be a negative or reverse motivator to good kids that are doing the right thing. It has the potential to create doubts and damages to the player-coach relationship with the those good kids.
Plus, I think the concept of group punishment for individual tardiness is generally unfair. Imagine if your head coach punished the whole staff when that one "guy" on staff showed up late.
If I had a player that was constantly late, I like others have said, would first find the cause of the tardiness. It does seem odd that a kid that is otherwise respectful and works hard constantly shows up late.
If there was a valid reason, for tardiness, I would work to find the easiest way for the player to enter the team session without disrupting the squad.
If the player was late for reasons that were unacceptable, I would approach it differently in the off-season and in-season. During the off-season, I would have a posted list of consequences, once the player accomplished the consequence, I would have a standard procedure so they could slip into what we were doing at the time without disruption. If it were during the season, I would take a similar approach, but add a playing time variable because I believe if you aren't present to get coached then you aren't going to be prepared to perform to your maximum capabilities.
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Post by gators41 on Mar 7, 2018 7:07:54 GMT -6
I have a players who is always late by a minute or two no matter if it is practice, S&C class, team meetings, etc. We have tried it all. Punishment such as gassers, peer pressure where whole team has gassers if he is late, playing time cut, points off his grade in S&C class, getting written up for tardy in S&C class, etc. and absolutely nothing motivates him to be on time. If he didn't work hard it would be a lot easier to just boot him out of the program, but he works very hard. It is getting started that is the problem. I am at a loss short of kicking him out of the program. He is a decent player but not an All American......not that it would be any easier if he were. Any ideas? I have been a head coach for 32 years and never experienced this level of this tardy problem. I dont think some of these guys concentrated on your post. It sounds like you have tried all traditional methods to fix this. I am thinking outside the box here a little. I am assuming you have had a sit down talk with him? What does he say? What are the reasons? My thoughts are to turn this around on him, find a way to take up some of his time, in your office, preferably with some of the other coaches every time he is late. Find a passive way to make him feel miserable without him knowing that is what you are doing?? I dont know this sounds tough. |
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Post by Hitch & Pitch on Mar 7, 2018 9:00:55 GMT -6
My experience it is probably a girlfriend thing...
My rule for my class for tardy's during the school period, is simple 20 burpees, I print my attendance sheet out in two week intervals, for every tardy on the sheet I add 20 more burpees.
The big thing I tell my players (parents and administration), when I feel your behavior is being detrimental to the team success, then it is my responsibility to remove you from the team.
I heard a quote from Dean Pease I think.. "your behavior and actions, tell me who you are, and what you are committed to"
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Post by newhope on Mar 8, 2018 7:49:32 GMT -6
If it's a getting to school thing, it could be out of his control. If he's at school and just isn't getting to where he needs to be on time, then it's a "he doesn't care enough" thing, in which case, he needs to be punished consistently and playing time cut considerably consistently. If he doesn't care, he'll get you beat. If you let him slide, then you're coaching him to be late by allowing it. Don't confuse a work thing with a care thing, if that makes sense. I'm not counting on him and really don't want him if he doesn't work, and I'm not counting on him and don't want him if he doesn't care. If he's going to be a part of the team, though, it's our responsibility as coaches to hold him accountable.
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Post by blb on Mar 8, 2018 7:59:01 GMT -6
Tell him at start of season the first two times he is late there will be after-practice "makeup."
The third time he will sit out half a game.
The fourth time he will be suspended for a game.
The fifth time he will be dropped from the program.
His attitude as indicated by his actions says he is a "me first" kid who thinks his time is more important than yours or the other players'. It sounds as if he is being willfully insubordinate.
That can be contagious or cancerous, the kind of thing that can cause a team to fall apart from within. |
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Post by silkyice on Mar 8, 2018 8:33:10 GMT -6
Tell him at start of season the first two times he is late there will be after-practice "makeup."
The third time he will sit out half a game.
The fourth time he will be suspended for a game.
The fifth time he will be dropped from the program.
His attitude as indicated by his actions says he is a "me first" kid who thinks his time is more important than yours or the other players'. It sounds as if he is being willfully insubordinate.
That can be contagious or cancerous, the kind of thing that can cause a team to fall apart from within. I can agree with this, unless this is the ONLY problem there is with this kid. Not saying that means it is ok or that you shouldn't resolve it, just that there very well could be more to the story. |
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Post by blb on Mar 8, 2018 8:43:06 GMT -6
I can agree with this, unless this is the ONLY problem there is with this kid. Not saying that means it is ok or that you shouldn't resolve it, just that there very well could be more to the story.
I have read OP's (unc31 ) posts on here for years. He is an experienced, highly successful coach.
I believe if there was more to the story he would've dealt with it by now or included it in his post.
I always felt part of my responsibility as a HS coach was to teach kids the importance of punctuality as an element of self-discipline, that "90% of success in life is being where you're supposed to be when you're supposed to be there."
If a kid refused to GWTP in something like that which was completely within his control, at some point we would have a parting of the ways.
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Post by silkyice on Mar 8, 2018 8:46:44 GMT -6
I can agree with this, unless this is the ONLY problem there is with this kid. Not saying that means it is ok or that you shouldn't resolve it, just that there very well could be more to the story.
I have read OP's (unc31) posts on here for years. He is an experienced, highly successful coach.
I believe if there was more to the story he would've dealt with it by now or included it in his post.
I always felt part of my responsibility as a HS coach was to teach kids the importance of punctuality as a part of self-discipline, that "90% of success in life is being where you're supposed to be when you're supposed to be there."
If a kid refused to GWTP in something like that which was completely within his control, at some point we would have a parting of the ways.
Fair enough. |
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Post by PSS on Mar 8, 2018 9:38:00 GMT -6
Give every person on the team some "physical motivation" (up-downs, bear crawls, log rolls, whatever you want) as soon as the period, practice, whatever it may be has started. And continue the "motivation" until that player has arrived to the role call area. And if it was me, I would be very vocal to all the kids that were on time why we were doing the extra motivation, and point out the tardy student as soon as he gets to practice, and thank him for allowing his teammates to get some rest. Of course, I can be a jerk sometimes, but the times we have had to do something similar, the situation seemed to fix itself pretty quickly. Again...I don't get this. What specific action do you hope the other kids (the kids who are on time) will take to remedy this situation? The team wins and loses games together. One of the goals of athletics is to prepare your players to become responsible men. Responsibility is one of the most important. You become a team member then you are responsible for your actions and the actions and the actions of the team. Same as winning or losing a game. Not one person wins or loses. It belongs to a team. You're not going to punish one person for a loss. The team owns it. The same is true for attendance. It's a team issue. Your leaders will make sure that everyone is there and on time. I use this as example. Track is an extension of offseason. Every football player is required to participate. If someone misses practice without permission, then the whole team, except the one that missed, pushes towels on the gym floor. Funny how it only takes one time and they learn to be at practice on time. Our team leaders make sure that the person that missed is on time each practice. |
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Post by silkyice on Mar 8, 2018 9:44:04 GMT -6
Again...I don't get this. What specific action do you hope the other kids (the kids who are on time) will take to remedy this situation? The team wins and loses games together. One of the goals of athletics is to prepare your players to become responsible men. Responsibility is one of the most important. You become a team member then you are responsible for your actions and the actions and the actions of the team. Same as winning or losing a game. Not one person wins or loses. It belongs to a team. You're not going to punish one person for a loss. The team owns it. The same is true for attendance. It's a team issue. Your leaders will make sure that everyone is there and on time. I use this as example. Track is an extension of offseason. Every football player is required to participate. If someone misses practice without permission, then the whole team, except the one that missed, pushes towels on the gym floor. Funny how it only takes one time and they learn to be at practice on time. Our team leaders make sure that the person that missed is on time each practice. You make every football player run track? Kids hate group punishment. If a kid gets caught drinking/drugs/fighting/cheating/whatever and his punishment is a game suspension, does the whole team get suspended? |
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Post by PSS on Mar 8, 2018 9:56:38 GMT -6
We drug test here. If a kid is caught with drugs he out of athletics for 1 year.
And yes everyone runs track. Every athlete is required to participate in 2 sports. It's in the Athletic Handbook. If they don't they are removed from athletics.
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Post by silkyice on Mar 8, 2018 10:02:25 GMT -6
We drug test here. If a kid is caught with drugs he out of athletics for 1 year. And yes everyone runs track. Every athlete is required to participate in 2 sports. It's in the Athletic Handbook. If they don't they are removed from athletics. You didn't answer the question. If a kid gets suspended for a game, do you suspend everyone? Of course not. But that is the logical conclusion of you have to run because Johnny forgot his butt pad and if one runs, we all run. Sorry for being a jerk there. If group punishment works, fine. Just not a hill I want to die on. I understand that you are trying to teach real life responsibility, but if one of teachers is late to school, you don't get a reprimand also do you? Public or private school. Just doesn't seem like requiring two sports would fly at a public. If private, I actually like the rule. But everyone of our kids play two or more sports anyways by choice. |
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Post by 19delta on Mar 8, 2018 10:26:15 GMT -6
Again...I don't get this. What specific action do you hope the other kids (the kids who are on time) will take to remedy this situation? The team wins and loses games together. One of the goals of athletics is to prepare your players to become responsible men. Responsibility is one of the most important. You become a team member then you are responsible for your actions and the actions and the actions of the team. Same as winning or losing a game. Not one person wins or loses. It belongs to a team. You're not going to punish one person for a loss. The team owns it. The same is true for attendance. It's a team issue. Your leaders will make sure that everyone is there and on time. I use this as example. Track is an extension of offseason. Every football player is required to participate. If someone misses practice without permission, then the whole team, except the one that missed, pushes towels on the gym floor. Funny how it only takes one time and they learn to be at practice on time. Our team leaders make sure that the person that missed is on time each practice. But that isn’t the case here. OP said he tried group punishment and it hasn’t worked. How are your team leaders making sure the offenders get to practice on time? Looking for specifics, not coachspeak. |
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Post by tothehouse on Mar 8, 2018 10:47:37 GMT -6
If it's early enough and it's established that he's late because he's just late and not some other circumstance...hold him out of football stuff.
That is the beauty of having a football PE class. When we start doing football things...kids that are late have other exercises they do like a regular PE class.
Show up on time...get to do football. Show up late...other exercises. Get them to understand that...the closer to the season, when they are late, means you're not playing in games. Period. Coaches set the bar. Players have to get to that level or higher. Simple solution. Don't get to do the fun stuff.
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Post by PSS on Mar 8, 2018 11:23:50 GMT -6
We drug test here. If a kid is caught with drugs he out of athletics for 1 year. And yes everyone runs track. Every athlete is required to participate in 2 sports. It's in the Athletic Handbook. If they don't they are removed from athletics. You didn't answer the question. If a kid gets suspended for a game, do you suspend everyone? Of course not. But that is the logical conclusion of you have to run because Johnny forgot his butt pad and if one runs, we all run. Sorry for being a jerk there. If group punishment works, fine. Just not a hill I want to die on. I understand that you are trying to teach real life responsibility, but if one of teachers is late to school, you don't get a reprimand also do you? Public or private school. Just doesn't seem like requiring two sports would fly at a public. If private, I actually like the rule. But everyone of our kids play two or more sports anyways by choice. If a kid is suspended it is for breaking an athletic code of conduct rule. It's different than breaking a team rule. Difference in forgetting equipment and not being there is that he's going to support his teammates. Couldn't do that if he skipped the game. He still has a role. And will have reminders the next day. What we do works. Football in the playoffs the 3-4 years, state qtr. finals last year, district champs and 3rd round this year. BB is the State Championship this year, Regional Finals last year. Of course the way we do things in Texas small schools is different than anywhere else. |
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