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Post by wingt74 on Nov 19, 2007 14:51:14 GMT -6
Is this the best team of all time? Is Brady-Moss the greatest QB-WR combo in history? 38-14 38-14 38-7 34-13 34-17 48-27 49-28 52-7 24-20 56-10 Look at the scores of these games? Winning every game by 20+ points except the Colts game. Is this all Belichick? His Assistants? Superior players? Or just an aligning of the stars where they are all superior? What does this team know that nobody else does? (Oops ) Just seems weird. I've been watching NFL football since the mid-80's, and not even the 49ers or Cowboys in their prime seemed this dominant.
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Post by brophy on Nov 19, 2007 14:58:10 GMT -6
This is probably the best T-E-A-M we've ever seen in the NFL, ever.
The Patriots have been completely sick since Bledsoe went down in 2001. The host of players that have come and gone throughout the years, and how you will never hear the players complaining about how it works is unheard of.
Belichick deserves the credit for keeping it together. Crennel and Weis have left and they haven't missed a beat - not many clubs can boast that. Crennel, Mangini, Weis........how are they doing on their own?
How many recievers, running backs, defensive linemen, linebackers, defensive backs, etc have they run through..........and still retained the like-results?
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 19, 2007 14:59:43 GMT -6
Records for number of points in a season
556 1998 Minnesota Vikings (Billick) 541 1983 Washington Redksins (Gibbs) 540 2000 St. Louis Rams (Martz; also 526 in 1999 and 503 in 2001)
With 411 points through 10 games, they are on track for 658 points! At this pace (41.1 points per game) they'll break the record with 2+ games to go.
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Post by wingt74 on Nov 19, 2007 15:02:11 GMT -6
This is probably the best T-E-A-M we've ever seen in the NFL, ever. The Patriots have been completely sick since Bledsoe went down in 2001. The host of players that have come and gone throughout the years, and how you will never hear the players complaining about how it works is unheard of. Belichick deserves the credit for keeping it together. Crennel and Weis have left and they haven't missed a beat - not many clubs can boast that. Crennel, Mangini, Weis........how are they doing on their own? How many recievers, running backs, defensive linemen, linebackers, defensive backs, etc have they run through..........and still retained the like-results? Right, players and coaches have come and gone, yet Belichick's team continues to dominate. You'd think there would be more coaches/teams trying to copy him...maybe they are. who knows.
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Post by carookie on Nov 19, 2007 15:06:32 GMT -6
I think they are definantly one of the best ever. They are the most talented short/intermediate pass team I have ever seen. They don't run the ball and some will deride them for it, but it doesn't matter because they do what they do better than anyone has. Offensively they are just the perfect system to beat most current defensive schemes; you know the saying styles make fights well there style beats the current trend.
With most everyone going with massive run plugging DT's and heavy pass rushes coming off the edges, the pats creates an offense that attacks that. They pass protect to the inside and have Brady step up in the pocket from the gun. They are usually short quick passes so the outside rush doesn't have time to get to him. The one team they faced that had a good pass rush with their four down linemen (and had ends rush under to the B-Gap) the colts slowed them down some. Luckily for them so few teams bring pressure that way that they are almost guaranteed to put up big points. Of course they have the talent to do it; Logan Mankins and Dan Koppen play out of their minds on the O-line, Brady is a perfect fit to run this O, and Randy Moss provides such a deep threat that you can't sit underneath on them. I'm no Pats fan, but I love watching there O because where most of the NFL just seems to be Vanilla and grab-bag they have a system, and I love watching that (hell and Im a deffensive guy)
On the other side of the ball they just do what theyve always done; play physical, play close to the LOS and pressure you from everywhere. Except now they put up so many points that they almost force you to try to shoot out with them.
As you can tell from my school girl like ramblings I'm very enamoured with what theyve done.
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Post by brophy on Nov 19, 2007 15:10:22 GMT -6
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Post by airraider on Nov 19, 2007 15:54:37 GMT -6
I think it has more to do with the rest of the league being so down this year. Other than a handful of teams, there arent many teams winning 70% of their games..
I also do not put much stock into points scored. Im sure the Cowboys or the Niners back in the day could have racked up those kind of numbers if they wanted to.. but they had a thing called class..
Against Washington they were up 38-0 late in the 4th and Tom Brady is still in there throwing TDs? Whats the point?
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Post by spos21ram on Nov 19, 2007 16:23:38 GMT -6
This is probably the best T-E-A-M we've ever seen in the NFL, ever. The Patriots have been completely sick since Bledsoe went down in 2001. The host of players that have come and gone throughout the years, and how you will never hear the players complaining about how it works is unheard of. Belichick deserves the credit for keeping it together. Crennel and Weis have left and they haven't missed a beat - not many clubs can boast that. Crennel, Mangini, Weis........how are they doing on their own? How many recievers, running backs, defensive linemen, linebackers, defensive backs, etc have they run through..........and still retained the like-results? Don't forget that without Bledsoe coming in that AFC Championship Game against the Steelers when Brady went down they would never have gone to the Super Bowl. They simplified the offense for Brady that year and then it stuck. I definitly beleive that a handfull of QB's in te league would be just as successful if they were starting for the Pats.
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Post by coachcb on Nov 19, 2007 16:58:32 GMT -6
Belichick has done a great job of developing a TEAM and a FAMILY in New England; not just a group of divas playing for their own recognition.
To me, it seems like a lot of NFL programs really aren't developing tight teams that play together and are build chemistry. It seems like there are teams that are just a combination of superstars that play for their own personal gain and glory.
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Post by lochness on Nov 19, 2007 17:33:12 GMT -6
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Post by Mav on Nov 19, 2007 17:59:31 GMT -6
I think it has more to do with the rest of the league being so down this year. Other than a handful of teams, there arent many teams winning 70% of their games.. I also do not put much stock into points scored. Im sure the Cowboys or the Niners back in the day could have racked up those kind of numbers if they wanted to.. but they had a thing called class.. Against Washington they were up 38-0 late in the 4th and Tom Brady is still in there throwing TDs? Whats the point? Late in the 4th? Up 38-0 against the Redskins, the Patriots started an 8 minute, 14 play drive in the 3rd quarter and scored their final TD with Brady at 9:06 in the 4th. Honestly, what should they have done? Pulled Brady out in the middle of the drive? Why the backlash against a very professional, classy football organization? I'd think coaches would be the first to understand and respect what the Patriots are doing.
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Post by thunder17 on Nov 19, 2007 19:10:27 GMT -6
Those guys are playing the game the way it is supposed to be played. It is a TEAM game. Put them up against any other NFL team in a high school stadium with 500 people watching and they win by 70 because its not about them as individuals but a team goal. I love watching the NFL, but you know most of those guys are in it for the money and the roar of the crowd. The Pats just look like they love the game.
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Post by airraider on Nov 19, 2007 19:12:54 GMT -6
I think it has more to do with the rest of the league being so down this year. Other than a handful of teams, there arent many teams winning 70% of their games.. I also do not put much stock into points scored. Im sure the Cowboys or the Niners back in the day could have racked up those kind of numbers if they wanted to.. but they had a thing called class.. Against Washington they were up 38-0 late in the 4th and Tom Brady is still in there throwing TDs? Whats the point? Late in the 4th? Up 38-0 against the Redskins, the Patriots started an 8 minute, 14 play drive in the 3rd quarter and scored their final TD with Brady at 9:06 in the 4th. Honestly, what should they have done? Pulled Brady out in the middle of the drive? Why the backlash against a very professional, classy football organization? I'd think coaches would be the first to understand and respect what the Patriots are doing. If I am up by almost 40 points even if there was only 2 minutes left in the 3rd, I am getting my multi-million dollar QB out of the game. I think there have been some issues this season that could question their professionalism and level of class.
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Post by airman on Nov 19, 2007 19:22:12 GMT -6
Tom Brady will be injured by a angry player by the end of the season in a meaningless blow out game. Bill Cowher is the one who said it could happen.
besides, how can you respect a man who has been caught cheating. a coach on a lesser talented team would have been fired.
all i know is I hope it is the 16-0 patriots vs the 15-1 green bay packers. Randy moss will get shut down by al " i cover you like a glove" harris, statistically the best bump and run corner back in the nfl.
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Post by airman on Nov 19, 2007 19:42:56 GMT -6
I certainly would not want tom brady to get injured. However, a coach cannot always control his players. I would prefer to get my backup quality playing time in stead of getting more stats for my star.
I would like to see the 15-1 packers vs the 16-0 patriots. the packers being the youngest team in the nfl. Brett Favre going out in the super bowl. the young packer wr doing there thing. the packer defense trying to stop the patriots. Sort of a David vs the Giant story line.
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Post by Mav on Nov 19, 2007 19:45:34 GMT -6
Late in the 4th? Up 38-0 against the Redskins, the Patriots started an 8 minute, 14 play drive in the 3rd quarter and scored their final TD with Brady at 9:06 in the 4th. Honestly, what should they have done? Pulled Brady out in the middle of the drive? Why the backlash against a very professional, classy football organization? I'd think coaches would be the first to understand and respect what the Patriots are doing. If I am up by almost 40 points even if there was only 2 minutes left in the 3rd, I am getting my multi-million dollar QB out of the game. I think there have been some issues this season that could question their professionalism and level of class. I honestly think you'd be hard pressed to find a current or former NFL coach who would pull their starting QB before the 4th quarter.
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Post by wildcat on Nov 19, 2007 19:57:00 GMT -6
What I think is so fascinating about the Pats is the kind of players they bring in. No one in the organization is snowballed by eye-popping physical attributes, flashy play, or big-ticket free agents. What they look for, first and foremost, is guys who 1) play hard and never take a down off and 2) are ultracompetitive and don't like to lose.
I think about what being in that huddle has to be like...11 guys who simply refuse to be beaten...guys who would rather give up a limb than lose...that kind of professionalism and dedication to perfection is really something special.
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Post by thunder17 on Nov 19, 2007 19:57:12 GMT -6
all i know is I hope it is the 16-0 patriots vs the 15-1 green bay packers. Randy moss will get shut down by al " i cover you like a glove" harris, statistically the best bump and run corner back in the nfl.
Alright, how are you going to shut down Brady and the rest of the bunch? That being said, I would to love to see Favre win another one.
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Post by wildcat on Nov 19, 2007 20:00:31 GMT -6
I think there have been some issues this season that could question their professionalism and level of class. Well, "class" is in the eye of the beholder. As far as professionalism, I think that the New England Patriots are the epitome of professionalism.
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Post by wildcat on Nov 19, 2007 20:03:47 GMT -6
besides, how can you respect a man who has been caught cheating. a coach on a lesser talented team would have been fired. So what? I would say that Bill Belichick has certainly built up enough credit with his bosses to keep his job. He didn't get fired because he didn't deserve to be fired. And, don't forget, the Belichick and the Pats were punished...a $500,000 fine and a forfeited 1st Round draft pick is nothing to sneeze at.
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Post by airraider on Nov 19, 2007 21:13:54 GMT -6
What I think is so fascinating about the Pats is the kind of players they bring in. No one in the organization is snowballed by eye-popping physical attributes, flashy play, or big-ticket free agents. What they look for, first and foremost, is guys who 1) play hard and never take a down off and 2) are ultracompetitive and don't like to lose. I think about what being in that huddle has to be like...11 guys who simply refuse to be beaten...guys who would rather give up a limb than lose...that kind of professionalism and dedication to perfection is really something special. umm.. Randy Moss?
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Post by airraider on Nov 19, 2007 21:19:00 GMT -6
1) as it has been said before, the NFL does not have a horde of 2nd & 3rd teamers. This is not JV / HS football. Teams no longer have the luxury of trying to develop players for 4 or 5 years.....you either put up or get traded or waived. period. 2) Something could be said for BEGINNING something........and FINISHING something....TO THE END. For all the remarks about Belichick "building something / team in New England", doesn't this qualify as something? We are not stopping until the clock / season / championship is finished? Getting a lead and sitting on it, enforces a different team attitude than going out every possession to score. If you CAN, why wouldn't you? 3) Last time I checked, Lyle Alzado, D1ck Butkus, Ray Nitschke, Too Tall Jones, Jack Tatum etc....are no longer playing in the league......if you are a professional, you are a professional - cheap shots and intentional injuries - when is the last time someone in the NFL intentionally [not assumed by a sports writer] went out to maime another player? 4) What is the difference from a guy taking a cheap shot on Brady in the first drive, compared to the last? If you're going to get injured, you're going to get injured.......not a whole lot you can do about it from a play-call perspective. 5) The further away from the field you get - the easier this looks. Because in the first quarter you are still playing to win and the risk is required. That late, with that kind of score, the game is already WON. And isnt the goal of the game to WIN? If its already WON, then why risk it?
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Post by wildcat on Nov 19, 2007 21:30:29 GMT -6
What I think is so fascinating about the Pats is the kind of players they bring in. No one in the organization is snowballed by eye-popping physical attributes, flashy play, or big-ticket free agents. What they look for, first and foremost, is guys who 1) play hard and never take a down off and 2) are ultracompetitive and don't like to lose. I think about what being in that huddle has to be like...11 guys who simply refuse to be beaten...guys who would rather give up a limb than lose...that kind of professionalism and dedication to perfection is really something special. umm.. Randy Moss? I was HOPING someone would take the bait... What about him? He took an ENORMOUS paycut to go to NE. Has he been a distraction this year? Has his ego or any of his actions caused problems in the locker room? All he has done is keep his mouth shut and performed at what will ultimately be record levels. The reason that NE can get away with bringing in a guy like Moss is because they have so many other quality, tough, hard-nosed professionals in that lockerroom who would NEVER let the ego and antics of one guy derail their quest to be the best. Think about...guys like Vrabel, Colvin, Bruschi, Light, Brady, Harrison, Koppen, Watson, Seau, Samuel, Thomas...those guys aren't just great football players. They are first-class, bona-fide Alpha Males...No way a guy like Moss comes in and steps out of line with those guys around!
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Post by airraider on Nov 19, 2007 22:04:57 GMT -6
umm.. Randy Moss? I was HOPING someone would take the bait... What about him? He took an ENORMOUS paycut to go to NE. Has he been a distraction this year? Has his ego or any of his actions caused problems in the locker room? All he has done is keep his mouth shut and performed at what will ultimately be record levels. The reason that NE can get away with bringing in a guy like Moss is because they have so many other quality, tough, hard-nosed professionals in that lockerroom who would NEVER let the ego and antics of one guy derail their quest to be the best. Think about...guys like Vrabel, Colvin, Bruschi, Light, Brady, Harrison, Koppen, Watson, Seau, Samuel, Thomas...those guys aren't just great football players. They are first-class, bona-fide Alpha Males...No way a guy like Moss comes in and steps out of line with those guys around! I think the problem with a post like this is some of you guys are biased based on your fan status of the team who is the topic at hand. I am not a big NFL fan.. I am a Niner fan.. but not much in the last several years to watch for.. But I think you let your emotions as a fan get in the way of your ability to see if for what it is..
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Post by wildcat on Nov 19, 2007 22:13:10 GMT -6
I was HOPING someone would take the bait... What about him? He took an ENORMOUS paycut to go to NE. Has he been a distraction this year? Has his ego or any of his actions caused problems in the locker room? All he has done is keep his mouth shut and performed at what will ultimately be record levels. The reason that NE can get away with bringing in a guy like Moss is because they have so many other quality, tough, hard-nosed professionals in that lockerroom who would NEVER let the ego and antics of one guy derail their quest to be the best. Think about...guys like Vrabel, Colvin, Bruschi, Light, Brady, Harrison, Koppen, Watson, Seau, Samuel, Thomas...those guys aren't just great football players. They are first-class, bona-fide Alpha Males...No way a guy like Moss comes in and steps out of line with those guys around! I think the problem with a post like this is some of you guys are biased based on your fan status of the team who is the topic at hand. I am not a big NFL fan.. I am a Niner fan.. but not much in the last several years to watch for.. But I think you let your emotions as a fan get in the way of your ability to see if for what it is.. Whaaa? I am not a NE fan and I really don't watch all that much NFL. I simply appreciate a well-run organization that is soley focused on continued excellance as its primary objective. As far as seeing it for what it is, please enlighten me because I have no idea what you are talking about.
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Post by airraider on Nov 19, 2007 22:18:28 GMT -6
I think the problem with a post like this is some of you guys are biased based on your fan status of the team who is the topic at hand. I am not a big NFL fan.. I am a Niner fan.. but not much in the last several years to watch for.. But I think you let your emotions as a fan get in the way of your ability to see if for what it is.. Whaaa? I am not a NE fan and I really don't watch all that much NFL. I simply appreciate a well-run organization that is soley focused on continued excellance as its primary objective. As far as seeing it for what it is, please enlighten me because I have no idea what you are talking about. I wasnt speaking on anything in particular.. just saying that some people will not even begin to listen when you say that you feel that filming signals is cheating.. not because they do not believe that.. but because you are talking about a team that they are a fan of.. that is one of the reasons that most fan based topics on here are banned.. just as I see happening to this one real soon.
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Post by Mav on Nov 19, 2007 22:28:07 GMT -6
If you go back and re-read this thread, there's only one poster who comes across as a fan. All others sound like coaches who appreciate great coaching. We're all witnessing history...
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Post by airraider on Nov 19, 2007 22:40:22 GMT -6
If you go back and re-read this thread, there's only one poster who comes across as a fan. All others sound like coaches who appreciate great coaching. We're all witnessing history... What history are we witnessing? What is so great about what they are doing? They are doing nothing that the Niners in the 80's and the Cowboys in the 90's didnt do. Of course they didnt have free agency back then, but what is better? Develop the people you have, or go get new ones that might be a little better than what you had?
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Post by wingt74 on Nov 20, 2007 7:34:56 GMT -6
What still gets me is...
You can point to something with the 49ers of the 80's and Cowboys of the 90's.
Cowboys - Just better talent from a fluke Hersal Walker trade.
49ers - Great players and the West Coast offense.
What is it about the Patriots? Even before Randy Moss, they were winning Superbowls.
Is it a style of offense? Defense? Just better players? Is it the cheating?
Or does "team chemistry" really win championships? Geez, if so, I'll call all my kids out and buy them pizza once a week!
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Post by leighty on Nov 20, 2007 7:40:30 GMT -6
If you go back and re-read this thread, there's only one poster who comes across as a fan. All others sound like coaches who appreciate great coaching. We're all witnessing history... What history are we witnessing? What is so great about what they are doing? They are doing nothing that the Niners in the 80's and the Cowboys in the 90's didnt do. Of course they didnt have free agency back then, but what is better? Develop the people you have, or go get new ones that might be a little better than what you had? You're joking, right? The Patriots are on pace to shatter every significant offensive record. As far as free agency, that's a two-way street. Players leave a team just as easily as they come.
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