smalls
Sophomore Member
Posts: 127
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Post by smalls on Oct 21, 2005 8:44:50 GMT -6
I read an article in sports illustrated last night about Mike Leach at Texas Tech. It mentioned that he doesn't belive in stretcing before practice. I was just wondering if anyone here knows more about his theories on this, if anyone's tried it, and if so how does it work for you.
I could see this being an advantage becuase it eliminates 15-30 minutes of "wasted" practice time a day, but the possibility in injuries would worry me.
What do you guys think?
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Post by tog on Oct 21, 2005 8:47:33 GMT -6
we don't stretch
we do dynamic warmups
just some carioca, shuffle,
stuff like that
haven't had any hammys or anything like that since we started doing that 6 years ago
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Post by brophy on Oct 21, 2005 8:51:42 GMT -6
same with us. we only spend 7-10 minutes a day doing dynamics. Static stretching is a waste of time unless it's at the end of practice.
We got our 'philosophy' straight from SC Coach @ Iowa, Chris Doyle.
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Post by pegleg on Oct 21, 2005 9:06:37 GMT -6
I agree same thing we do, only time we static stretch is after weights, cuts down on soreness.
Holla
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Post by coachgregory on Oct 21, 2005 10:13:44 GMT -6
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wangle
Probationary Member
Posts: 7
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Post by wangle on Oct 21, 2005 11:04:35 GMT -6
With the 7-8 year olds, I have NEVER seen a pulled muscle. We never stretch. We run a long lap to warm up (and the kids that get to practice early have already warmed up and just run early drills hard and fast to get our conditioning. There simply isn't enough time at this level to do more (and I think the stretching is of no help to them).
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Post by coachgregory on Oct 21, 2005 11:29:22 GMT -6
So with that long lap your taking what energy system and muscles are you warming up? And what does that warm up have to do with anything in football? I don't see a lot of long laps being ran in football. The warm up should directly relate to what your about to do on the field for it to be effective are as you say it is a waste time.
Believe it or not the odds of serious injury (skeletal or muscle) are higher in kids that age then with adolescent and adults due to the rapid growth that occurs in that age group and the development of their neuromuscular system. A basic but sound Dynamic Warm Up that develops proper movement form and habits along with a sound warm up would go a long way in improving your young athlete's athletic skills.
Jack
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Post by bulldog on Oct 21, 2005 12:59:44 GMT -6
We also do a dynamic warm-up. But, we also do a dynamic groin stretch as part of it. I have heard this topic discussed several times in clinic sessions and each time they have advocated the dynamic warmup and have referred to stretching as mostly a waste of time with no correlation to injury prevention. We also see running laps as a waste of time. A progressive run works much better (build-up the speed). Our injuries are way down as well. We used to suffer a lot pulled hammies and groins. No more.
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Post by williamcrehan on Oct 21, 2005 13:07:31 GMT -6
I am in full agreement. Static Stretching took 20 minutes. Are dynamic stretches are 6 minutes. (We add some rolls and sprints in as well.)
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Post by brophy on Oct 21, 2005 13:25:30 GMT -6
just a side note - I see there is a 'movement' out there linking under armour type garments with muscle cramping. I know there is no scientific research, and personally I don't buy it, but I've heard of coaches advocating against the use of these silk-made moisture wicking fabrics.
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wangle
Probationary Member
Posts: 7
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Post by wangle on Oct 21, 2005 20:37:18 GMT -6
CoachGregory,
Thanks for the input. It sounds like 10 minutes of dynamic warmups would fit the need. I went to the direct snap archive to get some examples.
With limited time, I need to make every minute count. Thanks guys!
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Post by Shake n' Bake on Oct 22, 2005 2:40:40 GMT -6
This brings up a good question. Where else throughout the normal practice routine could we save 10-20 minutes by doing it more efficiently? Or what do you do to maximize practice time? Things such as scripting plays, having timed periods/ etc.
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Post by tog on Oct 22, 2005 9:10:25 GMT -6
scripting plays periods and trying to organize it so that kids don't have to run back and forth just to get to a drill or a certain area of the field, or just make it to the scout team and get the scrimmage jersey on quickly and then not have to go change it
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ike2112
Sophomore Member
Posts: 158
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Post by ike2112 on Nov 24, 2005 12:31:29 GMT -6
For 'Smalls':
Mike Leach explained this to an audience in the summer. His quote was "when you've been watching a nature documentary on TV, when was the last time you saw a Cheetah slowly pace towards the antelope, hide down in the long grass, then pause and stretch his hamstrings and groin?" "Muscles need trained, not strained" Two good points to make to your team if you remove the stretching.
I play for a good level of rugby team in Scotland, and we've warmed up like that for years - only thing we stretch is the back and hips.
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Post by los on Nov 24, 2005 15:28:33 GMT -6
Brophy, what actually causes cramps (I mean scientifically) and why are some guys more prone to get them than others? It seems like whatever teams I've played on or coached, it was always the same few guys always cramping up and it didn't seem to make any difference in reguards to temp. or humidity or clothing!
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Post by boblucy on Nov 24, 2005 16:52:31 GMT -6
For 'Smalls': Mike Leach explained this to an audience in the summer. His quote was "when you've been watching a nature documentary on TV, when was the last time you saw a Cheetah slowly pace towards the antelope, hide down in the long grass, then pause and stretch his hamstrings and groin?" "Muscles need trained, not strained" Two good points to make to your team if you remove the stretching. I play for a good level of rugby team in Scotland, and we've warmed up like that for years - only thing we stretch is the back and hips. If I had a minute to speak with Coach Leach, I would tell him that to my knowledge, Cheetahs also do not pay child support, drive cars or chew watermelon bubble gum(my favorite). Trying to compare human leg muscles and the leg muscles of a creature that has four legs and is BORN to sprint is illogical to me.
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Post by los on Nov 24, 2005 18:38:51 GMT -6
Thats funny, Bob! Somebody answer my technical medical questions!
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Post by coachjd on Nov 24, 2005 19:03:46 GMT -6
UBWestVic Academy of Sport – Dynamic warm ups for team sports. Adapted from2005 AFL coaches conference By UBWestVic Physical preparation Coordinator DrWarren Young.
Firstly, what is a dynamic warm-up? A dynamic warm-up involves continuousmovement rather than static stretching where a position is held for 10-30s.The objective of a pre-game or training warm-up is to optimally prepare physicallyand mentally for play. More specifically, it is to improve performance, allow freedomof movement to perform skills effectively, and reduce the risk of muscle & tendoninjuries.The typical warm-up contains:1. General aerobic/sub-maximum component such as a run2. Stretching, usually static in nature3. Rehearsal of some of the skills about to be performedHowever there are 8 important reasons why static stretching is not necessary in warm-up1. May create over relaxation.2. Very time consuming – you may stretch on muscle group for 1 minute, in thelower body there are 7 main areas which means at least 14 minutes or staticstretching.3. Boring – many athletes don’t like it.4. May lose muscle temperature in cold conditions5. May not reduce the risk of injury. “Stretching can reduce passive stiffness butnot active stiffness.” (McNair & Stanley, 1996)6.
Static stretching may actually increase risk of injury if athletes stretch too hard.It is very difficult to control the intensity of stretching and if the tissues arelengthened too much, it can cause muscle damage.7. Static stretching doesn’t seem to increase ROM/flexibility when added to theother components of the warm-up eg run.8. Static stretching may impair muscle performance.What has been found is that static stretching in warm-up impairs muscle strength,muscle power, vertical jump performance and 20m sprint performance. Where thebenefits of dynamic warm-up illustrate after a 5 minute general sub maximal aerobicwarm up; improvements are shown in increased muscle temperature, increased releaseif oxygen, increase in the metabolic process, decrease in stiffness or viscosity,increased in nerve conductibility and increase in blood floe to the muscle which alllead to better performance.Importantly dynamic warm-up allows for specific skill rehearsal and alsoneuromuscular benefits or mental preparation. Further benefits of dynamic warm-upcompared to static are; it’s quicker, more enjoyable and it seems to achieve everything that static stretching can!
When developing a dynamic warm-up it is always wise to first identify practicalconstraints such as available space and equipment, increase the core and muscletemperature, include exercises that target the specific muscle groups used, try toinclude as many skills as possible and if possible individualise to the athletes. Despite identifying dynamic stretching as possibly a better method for warm-up, staticstretching does also have its place. Limitations in current range of movement can behelped as can reduce muscle shortening and potential muscle tightening after exercisealthough this is best done in a separate session, away from your specific workout.
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Post by boblucy on Nov 24, 2005 21:10:13 GMT -6
When I think of injuries that are soft muscle tissue based, hamstring and quad pulls, I think of how to prevent them. Even ankle muscles need to be unstiffened. When minimizing the importance of keeping nagging, preventable injuries at bay, the process of winning is interupted. When your best players, or just average starters are either standing on the sidelines during games with ankle sprains or ham/quad pulls, or you have some kids sucking it up and trying to play at 50%, strategies and x' and o's all go out the window......
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Post by wildcat on Nov 24, 2005 21:45:39 GMT -6
We used the Parisi Dynamic Warmup method this year prior to practice and the results were fantastic. We didn't have any of our starters miss games due to pulled muscles.
The best part of the Parisi Warmup is we got down to getting through the routine in about 10 minutes.
Static stretching should be done only after practice. Dynamic warmups "wake up" the CNS while static stretching puts the CNS to sleep. Doesn't make sense to have a sleepy CNS prior to a game or practice!
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Post by coachjd on Nov 25, 2005 5:40:25 GMT -6
Have been using dynamic warm-ups for 10 years for both football and track and have not had one hamstring, quad or groin injury in practice or a game.
The Eastern Europeans have been using dynamic warm-ups since the late 1960's, and as the story goes, they used to laugh at the all the US athletes doing static stretching prior to competition in the 1970-1980's. This story came from one of the strength coaches from Bulgaria who now works in Colorado Springs. When I took the USA weightlifting club coach and sports performance classes, all they could preach was dynamic warm-up prior to event and static post event.
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ike2112
Sophomore Member
Posts: 158
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Post by ike2112 on Nov 25, 2005 19:40:25 GMT -6
Wildcat,
Excuse my ignorance, but what is the Parisi Dynamic Warmup method? Is it just the idea of doing a dynamic warmup as opposed to stretching or is it a specific programme of exercises?
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Post by wildcat on Nov 26, 2005 8:35:00 GMT -6
ike2112 -
It is basically calesthenics followed by agility/plyometric running.
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Post by masonjones5711 on May 18, 2024 5:11:05 GMT -6
Skipping stretching before practice might seem unconventional, but some coaches believe in it for various reasons. While it can save time, it's crucial to consider injury prevention. Incorporating supplements like HGH can aid in muscle recovery and flexibility, potentially complementing this approach. I've personally found www.hghworld.top to be beneficial in optimizing my performance and reducing the risk of injuries.
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Post by wingtol on May 18, 2024 5:35:07 GMT -6
An almost 20 year old thread revived, never go away Coach Huey...never go away....
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Post by 44dlcoach on May 18, 2024 8:28:57 GMT -6
We still don't stretch before practice haha.
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Post by nhsehs on May 18, 2024 12:55:02 GMT -6
An almost 20 year old thread revived, never go away Coach Huey...never go away.... There are coaches on this site younger than this thread.
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Post by fantom on May 18, 2024 18:47:42 GMT -6
Skipping stretching before practice might seem unconventional, but some coaches believe in it for various reasons. While it can save time, it's crucial to consider injury prevention. Incorporating supplements like HGH can aid in muscle recovery and flexibility, potentially complementing this approach. I've personally found www.hghworld.top to be beneficial in optimizing my performance and reducing the risk of injuries. Is HGH legal in HS football?
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Post by hornetfan63 on May 20, 2024 13:04:49 GMT -6
Did this 20 year old thread get revived by AI? This account only has 3 posts, Two promoting the same website and the other is about using AI...
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Post by 44dlcoach on May 20, 2024 13:47:09 GMT -6
Did this 20 year old thread get revived by AI? This account only has 3 posts, Two promoting the same website and the other is about using AI... All three with suspicious looking links too.
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