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Post by deaux68 on Nov 19, 2007 18:36:03 GMT -6
A weird time to say this, considering we just got beat by a team that left Bryant-Denny in yellow school buses. I think it was the turning point of the program though. Maybe an LSU fan can help me out with the particulars of the UAB loss, but I know there is a story that goes around about the seniors on the 2003 using the UAB game in 2000 as a example for their NC year. Nick Saban's press conference was awesome today. I know he isn't politically correct (referencing 9-11, Pearl Harbor, alcoholism) he basically offended anyone and everyone. Once you get past that and to the part where he talks about people wanting to win before they did the work, it got me fired up. Here's a link. About the middle of the page you can see the presser. I know he's probably said it a million times, but I don't care I thought it was awesome. www.tuscaloosanews.com/section/WVUA03
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Post by airraider on Nov 19, 2007 19:06:30 GMT -6
It sounded pretty jumbled up to me. Lots of talking about nothing. Sounds like a team management problem to me. Dont come out and talk about how your players are not doing this or not doing that, fix it!! You are the coach.. take responsibility for things you are responsible for!! I HATE Saban.. and I dont even like LSU..
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Post by ajreaper on Nov 19, 2007 19:16:01 GMT -6
LOL, well at least your opinion is an unbiased one
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Post by deaux68 on Nov 19, 2007 19:20:36 GMT -6
He has taken credit for it. It's hard to watch this press conference and get a pulse for what is going on right now.
I was at home on one Monday and he had a press conference on TV. From then on I was sold. I think I've watched most of them since then.
He has taken responsibilty throughout the year, but 6 guys were suspended Saturday. One of them was a senior, DJ Hall, who was suspended on SENIOR day. I think he's pretty much fed up with these guys.
I don't blame Saban at all. Being a student with a good percent of them and worked a few camps, and been in practices around them.....I'll use kid gloves here and say that the University could do a lot better.
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Post by wildcat on Nov 19, 2007 20:32:14 GMT -6
None (or a very small number) of the guys on the 'Bama roster are Saban's recruits. I think that it was pretty evident from that interview that the guys who Saban inherited from Mike Shula had better figure things out pretty quickly or they are going to need to find somewhere else to play next year.
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Post by wildcat on Nov 19, 2007 20:53:12 GMT -6
Here's what I thought was the best part:
"I think we should sugarcoat it. When they are doing the wrong thing, we should say that’s good, you’re doing good, we love you for doing the wrong thing. I think that is how we will be successful in the future. I’ll tell you what…that ain’t ever going to happen while I am here. And if we can’t win getting guys to do it the right way, then I ain’t gonna be here…Your putting winning before doing it right and that is wrong…You are putting winning a championship and winning games before getting people to do the right thing…Every coach who I have ever been around who sugarcoats it for the players, it does no good and it just blows up."
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 19, 2007 20:59:07 GMT -6
And I agree..the man says all the right things...I have NOTHING wrong with what he says. I simply don't respect him because he holds everyone else up to a standard that he doesnt hold himself to.
Brophy...as far as you having his baby...just remember, he probably would say it wasn't his.
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Post by wildcat on Nov 19, 2007 21:14:42 GMT -6
This is good, too.
"Leadership is people who are willing to reinforce the values and principles of the organization".
"I'm not into punishing people. I'm into changing people's behavior so they can do the right thing and that is really the only reason to punish anybody. To get them to do right and it's in their best interest, if there is a consequence, to get them to change their behavior in a positive way so they will do right. That's what we would like to do. Hopefully what we did will have some positive effect."
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Post by tog on Nov 19, 2007 21:21:10 GMT -6
he is totally right
maybe it is stuff our media/population/fans are not ready to hear so it might not be the wisest move
but
he is right
totally right
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herky
Sophomore Member
Posts: 189
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Post by herky on Nov 19, 2007 21:36:31 GMT -6
It was an odd intro....but I did agree with much of what he said during the Q/A.
He is just abrasive enough to turn me off.
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Post by deaux68 on Nov 19, 2007 22:42:46 GMT -6
Oh, there is no doubt he has some personality issues. There was an interview with his wife during the summer and she talked about it. Talked about how he was hard to get to know, hard to get close to, etc.
Biggest thing she talked about was how he had a huge blindspot when it comes to media, his surrounding, and what people percieve him to be.
Abrasive is a great word for it. I really do think he cares about people, regardless of what some will say on here.
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 20, 2007 20:46:17 GMT -6
Why is it then when Alabama wins a big game, we hear about how Saban is an amazing coach, and he gets all the credit...but when they lose to MSU and ULM, we hear that none of the team are his recruits, so somehow we shouldn't hold it against them.
Urban Meyer admitted last year that he won the National Championship largely with Ron Zook recruits.
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Post by burtledog on Nov 20, 2007 21:40:43 GMT -6
Brophy. You are correct my friend. One of our big problems as a people is our thin skin. We are so upset about being insulted that we can't be corrected or have our flaws pointed out to us. I can say that and I am a Southerner. Grace Alone, Greg
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 20, 2007 22:35:18 GMT -6
I will admit that I don't really follow Alabama all that closely, but I am aware of the suspensions and other issues. My point was not specific to Saban, but to coaches that get all the credit when things go right, and seem to be impervious to criticism when things go wrong because "they're not HIS recruits." The same could be said of Charlie Weis this year. He had two great seasons built on Tyrone Willingham recruits. Willingham was fired halfway through season three which turned out to be a 6-5 season. Charlie Weis signed a 10-year megadeal, which seems to be the only reason he hasn't been fired. Can we stop referring to him as a genius who will give his team a "decided schematic advantage" (his words) over his opponents?! Sorry, I'll kill the Weis rant. As for Alabama, in a slightly different vein, Saban's comments about Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were way out in left field. ** I am not a fan of any school....however, the Big ten blows. I don't deny that the Big Ten is very weak this year, but 10 of 11 teams are bowl eligible. That has to mean something. That being said, living in State College with season tickets to Penn State, you won't find even me defending the Big Ten this year.
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Post by wildcat on Nov 20, 2007 22:52:33 GMT -6
My point was not specific to Saban, but to coaches that get all the credit when things go right, and seem to be impervious to criticism when things go wrong because "they're not HIS recruits." Nick Saban is certainly not impervious to criticism...their are LOTS of people who are not happy with the last two weeks of 'Bama football. As far as criticizing Saban for those losses, is he the one who convinced several of his starters to do stupid things and get suspended for those games? The problem at 'Bama is not Xs and Os and playcalling...it is the culture. Saban has to change the culture in that lockerroom and that is not as easy as changing the playbook. As for Alabama, in a slightly different vein, Saban's comments about Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were way out in left field. Did you even LISTEN to the press conference? He CLEARLY did not equate the problems at Alabama with catastrophes like 9/11 or Pearl Harbor. He simply used those two events to illustrate that change is often (and sometimes only) facillitated by a complete breakdown of an organization or system. At no time did he say that Alabama losing a couple of football games was in any way, shape, or form, equal to or more serious than war or international terrorism.
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 20, 2007 23:04:12 GMT -6
again, not defending Saban (specifically) but in what context did he use them? Don't get me wrong, I understand what Saban was trying to say. Having read the transcripts, I understand the context of what he was trying to say. That being said, I can't think of any context in which suggesting that losses in two football games were wakeup calls in any way comparable to 9/11 and Pearl Harbor. When the athletic department has to release statements to clafify what Saban said, it clearly signifies to me that "what he said isn't really what he meant to say."
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 20, 2007 23:05:25 GMT -6
<delete duplicate post>
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 20, 2007 23:08:35 GMT -6
Did you even LISTEN to the press conference? He CLEARLY did not equate the problems at Alabama with catastrophes like 9/11 or Pearl Harbor. He simply used those two events to illustrate that change is often (and sometimes only) facillitated by a complete breakdown of an organization or system. Yes, and I read the transcripts, too. I'm not here to start a fight, just wanted to state my opinion. Let's just agree to disagree.
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 20, 2007 23:11:37 GMT -6
theprez98, are you Katie Couric? Are you THAT sensitive where you are scared to say what you really mean? What is a better analogy that 98% of the ignorant masses known as citizens could comprehend? Jimminy Christmas! I thought I've been clear in what I wanted to say. Either way, as I suggested in the previous post, I was just stating my opinion, and wasn't trying to be problematic. The real question, is it necessary to dumb down analogies so that 98% of the citizens understand them?
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Post by deaux68 on Nov 20, 2007 23:15:47 GMT -6
Why is it then when Alabama wins a big game, we hear about how Saban is an amazing coach, and he gets all the credit...but when they lose to MSU and ULM, we hear that none of the team are his recruits, so somehow we shouldn't hold it against them.
I would say that Mike Shula was 6-6 with mainly the same players. Saban at one time was 6-2 with an overtime loss to UGA and a 7 point loss to FSU. They blew UT out of the water and shoulda, coulda, woulda against LSU.
Like he says in the erroneously reported press conference, something happend since that LSU game that made the players stop playing and preparing like winners. That being said, he also has taken credit for not making that right and for losing both games. He apologized to the fans and himself has called it embarrasing.
He is currently winning and losing with Mike Shula's players (although a starting corner, the starting RB, and the starting NT are true frosh) but he is coaching circles around the staff before him.
The Tide's two best defensive players, Darren Mustin and Rashad Johnson, are walk-ons. The starting QB, who I like and admire very much, is a "grayshirt". Meaning he was signed, sat out a year so he could count on the next year's class. Meaning he wasn't highly recruited at all.
There are talented players, but there aren't many talented football players. That's were this press conference is basically rooted.
Too bad a bunch of hacks in Bristol, CT have to ruin and continue to patsify the rest of America.
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Post by djwesp on Nov 20, 2007 23:20:48 GMT -6
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Post by deaux68 on Nov 20, 2007 23:22:07 GMT -6
On a related note.......
ESPN's own poll for tonight ask America if they were offended by Saban's comments.
As of earlier tonight 66 percent weren't offended and the only states that were offended were your northern liberal states of New Hampshire, Conn., the Dakotas(go figure), and Louisiana was a 50/50 split. Which I thought was extrodinarily funny and a reflection of their fanbase itself.
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 20, 2007 23:28:17 GMT -6
On a related note....... ESPN's own poll for tonight ask America if they were offended by Saban's comments. As of earlier tonight 66 percent weren't offended and the only states that were offended were your northern liberal states of New Hampshire, Conn., the Dakotas(go figure), and Louisiana was a 50/50 split. Which I thought was extrodinarily funny and a reflection of their fanbase itself. Just an off-topic FYI...1964 was the last time either of the Dakotas voted for a Democrat for President (LBJ). New Hampshire has traditionally been a lean state either way. Connecticut is the only state which could really be called liberal, and even then, in a very independent sense.
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Post by silkyice on Nov 21, 2007 0:05:23 GMT -6
On the suspended players, Bama blew out Tenn and nearly beat the number 1 team in the country with the same guys suspended. Therefore, no excuse. Heck, there is no excuse anyway for losing the last two games. On the walk-ons and grayshirts: Boo-hoo. Everyteam in America has the same problem. Next, nobody on Lousiana-Monroe was good enough to even be a gray-shirt at Bama coming out of high school.
Nick Saban is a good coach. But, he is a jerk I have heard him flat out lie at a clinic to Alabama high school coaches. I have heard him flat out lie to everyone in America at Miami.
He is living off of one year at LSU. A bunch of events transpired in the right way for him to get that shared championship. LSU isn't exactly hurting three years after he left.
His comments do offend me. Not becuase any political reason. They were just stupid and self-serving. Essentially, he was saying he fell asleep at the helm in his first year. Isn't that what happened on 9/11 and Pearl Harbor? America just wasn't really paying attention. Is that what he is saying, that he didn't really prepare? He talks about being on rock bottom. Again, if you analyze what he is saying, "Shula didn't get us to rock bottom, I did." LOL!!!
Those comments are good two years later after Bama wins a championship, but right now they just seem stupid. I have no problem with him telling his team that in private, but in a press conference? You should be better than that, especially if you make $4,000,000+ a year.
About the doing it right and winning. The press and fans couldn't care less if Bama is doing it right or not (I don't mean cheating, I mean how you practice and play). All they care about is winning. While Satan, I mean Saban, (sorry), is actually correct, he is not paid to teach his players how to do it right. He is paid to win. If teaching them how to do it right accomplishes winning, then freaking teach them that.
By the way, I do think that high school is different beacuse you are a service for the students there. In college, the players are there for the university. Big difference.
I also believe that doing it right is how you win. But again, I think those comments are extremely self-serving. "Hey everbody, I am still the almighty coach, I am teaching them to do it right, it is ok that Japan and Al-Quida bombed us, I mean La-Monroe." Freaking La-Monroe.
"Hey, do you have my check, and I will not be the head coach of Alabama, oh yeah, that was last year's press conference"
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Post by khalfie on Nov 21, 2007 8:52:27 GMT -6
On the suspended players, Bama blew out Tenn and nearly beat the number 1 team in the country with the same guys suspended. Therefore, no excuse. Heck, there is no excuse anyway for losing the last two games. On the walk-ons and grayshirts: Boo-hoo. Everyteam in America has the same problem. Next, nobody on Lousiana-Monroe was good enough to even be a gray-shirt at Bama coming out of high school. Nick Saban is a good coach. But, he is a jerk I have heard him flat out lie at a clinic to Alabama high school coaches. I have heard him flat out lie to everyone in America at Miami. He is living off of one year at LSU. A bunch of events transpired in the right way for him to get that shared championship. LSU isn't exactly hurting three years after he left. His comments do offend me. Not becuase any political reason. They were just stupid and self-serving. Essentially, he was saying he fell asleep at the helm in his first year. Isn't that what happened on 9/11 and Pearl Harbor? America just wasn't really paying attention. Is that what he is saying, that he didn't really prepare? He talks about being on rock bottom. Again, if you analyze what he is saying, "Shula didn't get us to rock bottom, I did." LOL!!! Those comments are good two years later after Bama wins a championship, but right now they just seem stupid. I have no problem with him telling his team that in private, but in a press conference? You should be better than that, especially if you make $4,000,000+ a year. About the doing it right and winning. The press and fans couldn't care less if Bama is doing it right or not (I don't mean cheating, I mean how you practice and play). All they care about is winning. While Satan, I mean Saban, (sorry), is actually correct, he is not paid to teach his players how to do it right. He is paid to win. If teaching them how to do it right accomplishes winning, then freaking teach them that. By the way, I do think that high school is different beacuse you are a service for the students there. In college, the players are there for the university. Big difference. I also believe that doing it right is how you win. But again, I think those comments are extremely self-serving. "Hey everbody, I am still the almighty coach, I am teaching them to do it right, it is ok that Japan and Al-Quida bombed us, I mean La-Monroe." Freaking La-Monroe. "Hey, do you have my check, and I will not be the head coach of Alabama, oh yeah, that was last year's press conference" Hear... hear... Silky... Saban has been lauded as the greatest coach since Lombardi on this board... He was great for turning around a struggling Bama team... and now that they've lost two in a row, to teams that shouldn't have been able to stop running clock... he's still held as a great coach while throwing his kids under the bus. "Its the kids fault... they weren't ready to play... pearl harbor, 911, alcoholism... its the kids fault!" Its week 11 buddy... those are his kids now... if they weren't ready to play... shame on him and his staff... they were ready to play against LSU... Georgia... Tennessee..
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 21, 2007 9:26:01 GMT -6
khalfie--actually its 3 in a row. Got to get those details in, Like I have said, the things he says... VERY good. Definitely could build a program philosophy with them. The message is fine. The messenger, leaves much to be desired...such as many of the qualities he espouses. As far as his latest press conference, I just think he was pretty foolish to not realize what the ramifications would be for those analogies. Brophy--your analogy of "war" is similar, but the difference is that it was a general analogy, not a specific one.
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Post by deaux68 on Nov 21, 2007 10:29:20 GMT -6
There is one thing he most certainly is.
Polarizing. You hate him or you love him.
I hate such a great speech is lost on some because he used two words and two numbers.
And silky you totally missed the whole point of my post. And apparently missed the part where I said they were his players in wins and losses. The point was that something has happened since the loss to LSU and that was the gist of the press conference.
Not throwing kids under the bus.
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Post by cqmiller on Nov 21, 2007 10:50:11 GMT -6
I am one of the few LSU fans who doesn't flat out HATE Nick Saban, so I guess a lot of people are going to throw him under the bus for his comments, but I will say this...
Was his message to say that "Alabama losing to ULM is exactly the same as the events of 9/11"?...or was it, "In order for people to accept change, BAD things have to happen first"
I wasn't a history major, but I do remember learning about a thousand examples in history where change was needed in a population for years...but nobody did anything about it, until something catastrophic occured.
Another example...EVERYONE knew what Germany & Japan were doing was wrong in the 1930's, but America's stance was "It's not our problem" for years...until this thing we call "Pearl Harbor" occured. A catastrophic event that caused EXTREME CHANGES in attitude, policy, and economy.
I understand that people are still upset by the events that occured in 9/11, but we need to look at the message for what it was intended, and NOT freak out when someone brings it up.
(How do you think all the LSU fans will react if Miles goes to Michigan and LSU rehires Saban?)lol
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 21, 2007 12:13:21 GMT -6
I don't hate the guy either, and I agree with you guys that his press conference is really being over scrutinized. His message was exactly what cqmiller described. Simply that maybe NOW, the team and fans will realize that being BAMA just doesn't cut it anymore.
I think he is getting hammered because of his character (or lack thereof), and his previous actions. He is "do as I say, not as a do" attitude and litany of values that he doesn't hold himself to are well known in coaching circles, and now they are becoming apparent to the media, who has no problem holding his feet to the fire.
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Post by deaux68 on Nov 21, 2007 17:27:23 GMT -6
He is getting hammered because he is an unlikable guy. He treats the media like crap or if you look at it another way, he uses them to get his message out.
Let's not pretend like the media has done any research on this CoachD. Most of them only know Saban from leaving Miami and winning a NC at LSU.
And like yourself there are plenty out there that find any chance possible to tell you what a creep his is or in your case, doesn't live by what he preaches. Whether it's true or not, it gets a rise out of people and like I said is polarizing issue.
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