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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 23:15:12 GMT -6
My advice for a young offensive mind will be to learn the o-line play. My advice to a young defensive mind will be to learn the secondary play. i agree 100% Every offensive discussion should start with: whats the blocking scheme Every defensive discussion should start with: whats the coverage As an OL coach, it sucks working with someone who's never played or coached OL in his life and wants to install tons of new stuff every week or just expects 5 HS kids to automatically know the best way to block something. When someone hands you a sheet of plays all drawn up against the same defense with no blocking or blocking rules listed, those plays aren't worth the ink and paper he used to scribble them down. Coaches who have no experience with OL play are always so quick to blame "dumb@$$ linemen" for screwing up and "not blocking nobody" just because a play got stuffed for a loss, but they could very seldom tell you what the blocking rules actually asked each player to do on that play or even if we got 5 hats on 5 hats. It gets old working with guys like that fast. EDIT: To clarify, I don't work with anyone like that now, but I have in the past. We're pretty good about recycling schemes and teaching here.
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Post by gibbs72 on Oct 29, 2015 8:50:53 GMT -6
You could say that you are open to do any duty you guys don't want to do to lighten the work of the other coaches? Propose (taking over) duties that typically nobody wants to do, but doesn't take a whole lot of experience. Laundry (I don't care if managers already do it. That doesn't mean they like to do it), arrange the little things for practice and gameday both home and away, help with making scout cards, make sure you are the first to arrive, last to leave,... Show up for weightlifing duties year-round. (don't propose it, but do it) Volunteer to help enter basic data in Hudl; help draw up scout cards; help draw up drill cards for practice ==> these are some things as a DC a new/ younger coach could do that would get my attention in a positive way and show they are learning our system and are ready to tackle more and more responsibility
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Post by coachphillip on Oct 29, 2015 9:02:56 GMT -6
I got a new one courtesy of one of our freshman coaches. He thought our S&C guy was slacking because the kids work out as one big group and the workout isn't position specific. "We need to split the kids into position groups and by technical skill in their lifts. Then they can alternate and have a third group afterward for kids who aren't ready to lift yet that can learn functional movements." "Yeah. That sounds good. Know why we don't do that?" "Because our S&C coach is lazy." "No. We don't do that because our HC is doing administrative paperwork, our DC is a math teacher grading papers, and the rest of our coaches are off campus and can't get here until 3. This man is the only one with a manageable schedule and the sense enough to understand the importance of any kind of a S&C program so he tries like hell for us to be able to lift at all."
Don't assume that the reason your program doesn't do something is because the coaches are too stupid to think of it. Any time you come up with an idea, it better have a strategic plan of implementation and you better be the one that carries it out without piling more on to the plates of grossly undercompensated assistants or the overly stressed HC. We do the best with what we got.
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Post by olinedude on Oct 29, 2015 12:00:37 GMT -6
So where do you draw the line between "sit down and shut up" and "raise your voice because being quiet doesn't help anyone?" I feel like I'm falling into the latter trap where I'm at. I just started in August at a program where the staff's almost all been together for 15 years, has almost every resource available, and every task was already assigned on a team that's traditionally been pretty successful, so I didn't want to step on anyone's toes while I learned how we do things here and got my stuff together in the classroom. Heck, all the grunt work of laundry, setting up drills, etc. is already handled by 3 managers! Now I get the impression that the other coaches mistake this for laziness and passivity. My only assigned duties are to be freshman OC and coach freshman OL, plus spot on Friday nights. I do that to the best of my ability and i show up for all the meetings and pass out gear, etc. but I want to do more to prove myself to the staff I'm on, you know? I'm in a similar situation that you are. Went from being a 6A OL coach/running game coordinator in Texas where I had a lot of pull with what we did offensively to being a WR coach/Freshman OC on a good 5A staff. it's tough starting over with guys who know each other and don't know you, especially when you're a step behind because they know the offense and you don't. The best thing I can say is just be a good coach. Do what you do, keep your suggestions within the realm of your offense (don't be the "way we used to do it at..." guy) and slowly but surely you'll win these guys over and get more put on your plate in the future. Take that Freshman OC job as serious as a heart attack, and do a great job with those guys. That does get attention. I get ragged on for having freshman practice planned each period with a script, but it does get noticed that I'm not a total idiot just going off the top of my head out there. Also, you could go express these feelings to the HC, just let him know you don't want to be seen as lazy, your open to more on your plate, and you can handle whatever he wants to give you. A great coach once told me, "If you don't know don't guess," and I'd add, "if you do know, speak up."
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Post by coachklee on Oct 29, 2015 17:35:44 GMT -6
So where do you draw the line between "sit down and shut up" and "raise your voice because being quiet doesn't help anyone?" I feel like I'm falling into the latter trap where I'm at. I just started in August at a program where the staff's almost all been together for 15 years, has almost every resource available, and every task was already assigned on a team that's traditionally been pretty successful, so I didn't want to step on anyone's toes while I learned how we do things here and got my stuff together in the classroom. Heck, all the grunt work of laundry, setting up drills, etc. is already handled by 3 managers! Now I get the impression that the other coaches mistake this for laziness and passivity. My only assigned duties are to be freshman OC and coach freshman OL, plus spot on Friday nights. I do that to the best of my ability and i show up for all the meetings and pass out gear, etc. but I want to do more to prove myself to the staff I'm on, you know? Great question! Keep showing up. Keep asking questions about why a technique is used or a drill is used. Keep asking to watch film with more experienced coaches to get an understanding of how/why your offense does move the ball leading to big plays or scores, of how/why sometimes you get stopped & the same for how/why your defense gets stops, of how/why your defense sometimes gives up big plays or scores. I do think the number one thing any coach can do is get good at watching film in his system as this leads to us being better at seeing the same mistakes as they happen during practice or in the games. I'm 30 & still on the young side myself, but do have my 13th season under my belt & 2nd as a DC...I know I get a little better whenever I really study film & do as much as possible on my own or with my HC when possible.
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Post by olinedude on Nov 2, 2015 10:23:57 GMT -6
Another thread reminded me of something I did, and still do. Yelling at officials, especially at sub-varsity games. After my wife called me out saying it was embarrassing early on in my career, I have been working to be more of the "attract more flies with honey," type coach. Last week we won a game we shouldn't have because we got a couple calls, their coaches went ballistic, and we got even more calls. In retrospect, first couple years of my career I probably cost us a few games because I was an idiot on the sidelines on thursdays.
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Post by dytmook on Nov 2, 2015 18:39:38 GMT -6
Slap nut coach this week, "why aren't we running power?" on third and goal from the 8 with a freshman at center and a sophomore at guard against a team with one loss and nine in the box...
We almost fought in the booth.
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Post by fbs on Nov 3, 2015 9:51:43 GMT -6
So where do you draw the line between "sit down and shut up" and "raise your voice because being quiet doesn't help anyone?" I feel like I'm falling into the latter trap where I'm at. I just started in August at a program where the staff's almost all been together for 15 years, has almost every resource available, and every task was already assigned on a team that's traditionally been pretty successful, so I didn't want to step on anyone's toes while I learned how we do things here and got my stuff together in the classroom. Heck, all the grunt work of laundry, setting up drills, etc. is already handled by 3 managers! Now I get the impression that the other coaches mistake this for laziness and passivity. My only assigned duties are to be freshman OC and coach freshman OL, plus spot on Friday nights. I do that to the best of my ability and i show up for all the meetings and pass out gear, etc. but I want to do more to prove myself to the staff I'm on, you know? man I love that question... Let me try to help you, not that I'm an authority on anything at all, but I think I can offer some direction from a been there and done that standpoint. I think there's been some confusion throughout this conversation about what "sit down and shut up" means. We don't want to hear how much you "know". We also don't want a million suggestions to do what someone else did, when it doesn't fit what WE do. So fill that silence by asking as many questions as you can. If you have a staff full of 15 year veterans, find the guys that work the hardest and do what they do ALL THE TIME. Get in their back pocket and make them tell you to leave them alone. It will show them that you care and they will go out of their way to teach you. I promise you will move up the ladder faster this way, rather than being a guy that tries to show everyone how smart they are.
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Post by olcoach53 on Nov 3, 2015 11:09:20 GMT -6
So where do you draw the line between "sit down and shut up" and "raise your voice because being quiet doesn't help anyone?" I feel like I'm falling into the latter trap where I'm at. I just started in August at a program where the staff's almost all been together for 15 years, has almost every resource available, and every task was already assigned on a team that's traditionally been pretty successful, so I didn't want to step on anyone's toes while I learned how we do things here and got my stuff together in the classroom. Heck, all the grunt work of laundry, setting up drills, etc. is already handled by 3 managers! Now I get the impression that the other coaches mistake this for laziness and passivity. My only assigned duties are to be freshman OC and coach freshman OL, plus spot on Friday nights. I do that to the best of my ability and i show up for all the meetings and pass out gear, etc. but I want to do more to prove myself to the staff I'm on, you know? man I love that question... Let me try to help you, not that I'm an authority on anything at all, but I think I can offer some direction from a been there and done that standpoint. I think there's been some confusion throughout this conversation about what "sit down and shut up" means. We don't want to hear how much you "know". We also don't want a million suggestions to do what someone else did, when it doesn't fit what WE do. So fill that silence by asking as many questions as you can. If you have a staff full of 15 year veterans, find the guys that work the hardest and do what they do ALL THE TIME. Get in their back pocket and make them tell you to leave them alone. It will show them that you care and they will go out of their way to teach you. I promise you will move up the ladder faster this way, rather than being a guy that tries to show everyone how smart they are. Oh man, this was awesome. Don't come up with ideas and plays you THINK will work. Tell me WHY they will work or show me why they will work. Also do not try to change plays or add plays DURING A GAME. Nothing good has ever come from that. The fact of the matter is that some coaches just aren't very good coaches and even the "veteran" coaches still suggest ignorant things during games.
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Post by dytmook on Nov 3, 2015 17:19:22 GMT -6
man I love that question... Let me try to help you, not that I'm an authority on anything at all, but I think I can offer some direction from a been there and done that standpoint. I think there's been some confusion throughout this conversation about what "sit down and shut up" means. We don't want to hear how much you "know". We also don't want a million suggestions to do what someone else did, when it doesn't fit what WE do. So fill that silence by asking as many questions as you can. If you have a staff full of 15 year veterans, find the guys that work the hardest and do what they do ALL THE TIME. Get in their back pocket and make them tell you to leave them alone. It will show them that you care and they will go out of their way to teach you. I promise you will move up the ladder faster this way, rather than being a guy that tries to show everyone how smart they are. Oh man, this was awesome. Don't come up with ideas and plays you THINK will work. Tell me WHY they will work or show me why they will work. Also do not try to change plays or add plays DURING A GAME. Nothing good has ever come from that. The fact of the matter is that some coaches just aren't very good coaches and even the "veteran" coaches still suggest ignorant things during games. you mean I shouldn't suggest the double reverse fumblerooski to add at half time?
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Post by olcoach53 on Nov 3, 2015 18:12:50 GMT -6
Oh man, this was awesome. Don't come up with ideas and plays you THINK will work. Tell me WHY they will work or show me why they will work. Also do not try to change plays or add plays DURING A GAME. Nothing good has ever come from that. The fact of the matter is that some coaches just aren't very good coaches and even the "veteran" coaches still suggest ignorant things during games. you mean I shouldn't suggest the double reverse fumblerooski to add at half time? The only play I will EVER consider is the Annexation of Puerto Rico
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Post by dytmook on Nov 3, 2015 18:44:22 GMT -6
you mean I shouldn't suggest the double reverse fumblerooski to add at half time? The only play I will EVER consider is the Annexation of Puerto Rico Only if you have a good fullback.
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Post by 33coach on Nov 3, 2015 21:53:29 GMT -6
Oh man, this was awesome. Don't come up with ideas and plays you THINK will work. Tell me WHY they will work or show me why they will work. Also do not try to change plays or add plays DURING A GAME. Nothing good has ever come from that. The fact of the matter is that some coaches just aren't very good coaches and even the "veteran" coaches still suggest ignorant things during games. you mean I shouldn't suggest the double reverse fumblerooski to add at half time? Only if you film the HCs response.
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mikeyg
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Post by mikeyg on Nov 3, 2015 23:56:05 GMT -6
One more thing I would add about how to be a better coach. For the love of God man don't be one of those screaming at the refs type of coaches. I have seen nothing but bad happen to those kind of coaches. I guarantee that if you treat the refs with respect and maybe shoot the breeze with them during some down time they will remember. Few weeks ago we showed up to a away game and I recognized the zebra crew from 3 yeas ago. One of them remembered me and it was like 2 old friends reuniting after being apart for 20 years. We had a few calls go our way that probably most likely shouldn't have and it was mostly in part to us not being up their butts the entire time and them remembering us. The same way coaches remember refs the refs remember coaches.
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Post by brophy on Nov 4, 2015 1:08:33 GMT -6
and for those of you who don't agree with the young guys doing the grunt work: you are out of your mind. its called a right of passage. i've been in it for a while, and i still help mow the field, stripe it, do laundry, etc. had a young kid on staff one year who thought all that crap was beneath him. he didn't last in the profession very long. this. Related is....thinking that Varsity is where its at. Sure, no one is really watching the JV scores closely or the freshmen team isn't going to state, but young coaches that regard Varsity as the only place of value. Realizing that coaching just fundamentals at the lower and freshmen levels is the absolute foundation of a successful program. Young coaches will often times be put on these staffs and not appreciate the value of fundamentals (and over value schemes and plays)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2015 6:23:17 GMT -6
and for those of you who don't agree with the young guys doing the grunt work: you are out of your mind. its called a right of passage. i've been in it for a while, and i still help mow the field, stripe it, do laundry, etc. had a young kid on staff one year who thought all that crap was beneath him. he didn't last in the profession very long. this. Related is....thinking that Varsity is where its at. Sure, no one is really watching the JV scores closely or the freshmen team isn't going to state, but young coaches that regard Varsity as the only place of value. Realizing that coaching just fundamentals at the lower and freshmen levels is the absolute foundation of a successful program. Young coaches will often times be put on these staffs and not appreciate the value of fundamentals (and over value schemes and plays) I love the post! Fundamentals coincide with plays and schemes. I say that as a minimalist in regards to plays and schemes.
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 4, 2015 6:52:03 GMT -6
and for those of you who don't agree with the young guys doing the grunt work: you are out of your mind. its called a right of passage. i've been in it for a while, and i still help mow the field, stripe it, do laundry, etc. had a young kid on staff one year who thought all that crap was beneath him. he didn't last in the profession very long. this. Related is....thinking that Varsity is where its at. Sure, no one is really watching the JV scores closely or the freshmen team isn't going to state, but young coaches that regard Varsity as the only place of value. Realizing that coaching just fundamentals at the lower and freshmen levels is the absolute foundation of a successful program. Young coaches will often times be put on these staffs and not appreciate the value of fundamentals (and over value schemes and plays) This is an excellent post for the young guys (I am young too but I've bounced around a bit). I have done the varsity position coach and varsity OC thing. Right now I'm doing JV because we moved across the country. I can tell you that I have had way more fun coaching JV football in a successful program that has a great culture than I ever did being "the man" up on varsity calling the plays in a sh!tty culture where we were doing a turnaround job. It was cool, and yes varsity is the big show in the school, but for me coaching ball is coaching ball. Doesn't matter what level. I'll be patient, do the best job I can, and in a couple of years I know I'll get the chance to move up. The point is younger guys, don't get so caught up in the future. Do the best damn job you can where you're at. If you do that, the promotions will take care of themselves. I promise.
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Post by dytmook on Nov 8, 2015 14:36:54 GMT -6
you mean I shouldn't suggest the double reverse fumblerooski to add at half time? Only if you film the HCs response. This year he might have just said do it, but it was a long year...
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souza12
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Post by souza12 on Nov 8, 2015 14:56:28 GMT -6
I got a new one courtesy of one of our freshman coaches. He thought our S&C guy was slacking because the kids work out as one big group and the workout isn't position specific. "We need to split the kids into position groups and by technical skill in their lifts. Then they can alternate and have a third group afterward for kids who aren't ready to lift yet that can learn functional movements." "Yeah. That sounds good. Know why we don't do that?" "Because our S&C coach is lazy." "No. We don't do that because our HC is doing administrative paperwork, our DC is a math teacher grading papers, and the rest of our coaches are off campus and can't get here until 3. This man is the only one with a manageable schedule and the sense enough to understand the importance of any kind of a S&C program so he tries like hell for us to be able to lift at all." Don't assume that the reason your program doesn't do something is because the coaches are too stupid to think of it. Any time you come up with an idea, it better have a strategic plan of implementation and you better be the one that carries it out without piling more on to the plates of grossly undercompensated assistants or the overly stressed HC. We do the best with what we got. Aside from that it hurts team chemistry imo.. it breaks up the team into subgroups and in my opinion is a bad idea.
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Post by youngdlcoach on Nov 9, 2015 2:03:27 GMT -6
First post here. Have coached at a few camps but that is it. Shutting up now and have my pen and legal pad out.
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Post by CoachCP on Nov 12, 2015 8:51:21 GMT -6
I can't stand when young coaches yell "block somebody", single out a kid who is clearly injured for not playing (audibly), wonder why we're not throwing the ball to his receivers when they've had 5 drops and we ran for over 200 yards, or complain that we need to be running a different defense each week.
This was one receivers coach who "knew" what he was talking about because he played Division II college football the year before.
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