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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 16, 2015 21:13:54 GMT -6
Our DC and I get into it every week over this. I script all the way down to coverage and he gets into the wrong thing. Drives me nuts. "Coach, you don't know what coverage they'll be in" Not always, but I know tendencies and I won't call certain things against certain looks. This has driven me driven me crazy as well. I am not trying to beat the scout team or even the first defense. I am trying to win the freaking game. He has been better. The last time he didn't follow my script I kneeled the ball in victory several times on scout O. When he got mad I told him we were just showing what he was going to see if he didn't adequately help the offense prepare.
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Post by fantom on Oct 16, 2015 21:29:51 GMT -6
Our DC and I get into it every week over this. I script all the way down to coverage and he gets into the wrong thing. Drives me nuts. "Coach, you don't know what coverage they'll be in" Not always, but I know tendencies and I won't call certain things against certain looks. This has driven me driven me crazy as well. I am not trying to beat the scout team or even the first defense. I am trying to win the freaking game. One of the hardest thing that I do every week is put together the practice script. Often it's harder than putting the game plan together. We have a limited number of reps in Inside Drill, 7-on-7, and Team Defense. One thing that I try to do is stress the defense with plays that the opponent actually runs that challenge a particular call without screwing them and undermining their confidence with something that the opponent is unlikely to run or even something that I have never seen them run. Just as importantly, the coaches are looking for something specific on each play. In the right context, I enjoy surprises but this is not that. Bottom line, I put a lot of thought into that script and the position coaches and I am looking for something on every play. I'm a pretty even-keel guy but if you want to see me go off ad-lib the script.
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 16, 2015 21:39:35 GMT -6
This has driven me driven me crazy as well. I am not trying to beat the scout team or even the first defense. I am trying to win the freaking game. One of the hardest thing that I do every week is put together the practice script. Often it's harder than putting the game plan together. We have a limited number of reps in Inside Drill, 7-on-7, and Team Defense. One thing that I try to do is stress the defense with plays that the opponent actually runs that challenge a particular call without screwing them and undermining their confidence with something that the opponent is unlikely to run or even something that I have never seen them run. Just as importantly, the coaches are looking for something specific on each play. In the right context, I enjoy surprises but this is not that. Bottom line, I put a lot of thought into that script and the position coaches and I am looking for something on every play. I'm a pretty even-keel guy but if you want to see me go off ad-lib the script. Glad I'm not the only one who goes off on this. We run to throw, have an awesome ground game which in turn gives us an awesome pass game. Our DC doesn't understand that my playlist vs. cover 4 is different than cover 1, 0, 2, or 3 though. If I've watched 3 films on a defense and they have never ran zero, don't run that bullsh!t!
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Post by coachphillip on Oct 19, 2015 7:33:42 GMT -6
Exactly. I did not spend hours of my weekend thinking through the exact amount of reps of each play versus each front and coverage and then draw up all those scout cards so some slappy can run a double pass throwback "BECAUSE IT CAN HAPPEN IN A GAME"!
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Post by theyoungballcoach on Oct 19, 2015 7:49:54 GMT -6
Exactly. I did not spend hours of my weekend thinking through the exact amount of reps of each play versus each front and coverage and then draw up all those scout cards so some slappy can run a double pass throwback "BECAUSE IT CAN HAPPEN IN A GAME"! I would absolutely lose my mind.
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Post by WingTheT on Oct 19, 2015 9:27:08 GMT -6
When a young coach seems to be more interested in being the "cool coach" and a friend rather than being an actual good coach...hence why this certain guy is no longer coaching for his team anymore and has been asked to complete other "coaching duties" such as prepping the equipment and helping with the camera...
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Post by craines10 on Oct 20, 2015 9:52:58 GMT -6
When a young coach seems to be more interested in being the "cool coach" and a friend rather than being an actual good coach...hence why this certain guy is no longer coaching for his team anymore and has been asked to complete other "coaching duties" such as prepping the equipment and helping with the camera... We got a first year guy on our staff like this. Jokes around a lot with the kids, laughs at their jokes that are told at the wrong time..etc
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Post by groundchuck on Oct 20, 2015 10:04:48 GMT -6
Where do I start? If I could get in the DeLorean and go back to when I was 22 years old I'd probably fall over laughing at myself screwing things up.
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tobc
Probationary Member
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Post by tobc on Oct 20, 2015 11:25:32 GMT -6
young coaches:
1) show up early. don't show up right on time. shows you aren't committed. 2) keep your mouth shut for the first couple of years during meetings. LEARN. 3) do the laundry. we've all had to do it. don't gripe and moan about it. 4) coach asks you to do something, do it. shows loyalty and respect. 5) keep your mouth shut.
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Post by coachwilliams2 on Oct 20, 2015 11:38:46 GMT -6
What kind of "young coaches" are we talking about here? 9th grade? JV? Varsity?
If you are hired to be a varsity coach, I would be furious as a HC with a coach regardless of age who "kept his mouth shut" during meetings. Don't hire a guy as a varsity coach if you don't want his opinion.
I think 9th and JV coaches should always defer to the varsity staff on things.
Coaches IN General should:
1. Do things that need to be done. Take pride in the program and make it better. ADD VALUE. 2. Stay within the schemes and offer well-thought out ideas and ANSWERS. 3. DO YOUR JOB. Simple, but often over looked.
I wouldn't want a coach on my staff, regardless of age, who didn't want to contribute and add value to the program beyond field work. If you want to sit back while others do the grunt work (unless you are a coordinator or HC) then I don't think many HC's would want to hire guys like that regardless of whether they are young or old.
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Post by fantom on Oct 20, 2015 11:45:35 GMT -6
If you are hired to be a varsity coach, I would be furious as a HC with a coach regardless of age who "kept his mouth shut" during meetings. Don't hire a guy as a varsity coach if you don't want his opinion. I agree. A good idea is a good idea no matter where it comes from. I'd modify the "Keep your mouth shut" to something like, "Don't get argumentative or butthurt if your idea gets shut down" or "Think your idea through before you present it".
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Post by groundchuck on Oct 20, 2015 12:08:00 GMT -6
When coach asks you to do something do it yourself. Don't pass it in to somebody else to do. He asked YOU to do it. He didn't tell you to get somebody else.
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Post by stilllearning on Oct 20, 2015 12:21:45 GMT -6
Not understanding that coaching is not about Xs and Os. When I was young I was like 'I know this game inside and out, why are we losing'. Now I know why. All coaching is life coaching the sport is just an excuse to get to the good stuff. Good post. I'm a first year coach, so this thread is interesting to me. So far, the biggest thing I've learned is how much of coaching is just dealing with people. There is just as much thought put into how to motivate kids or explain things another way as their is thoughts about formations and play calling.
I have found that I was a lot closer to being where I need to be in terms of Xs and Os than in terms of leadership, teaching ability, inspiration, etc.
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Post by fbs on Oct 21, 2015 9:08:49 GMT -6
What kind of "young coaches" are we talking about here? 9th grade? JV? Varsity? If you are hired to be a varsity coach, I would be furious as a HC with a coach regardless of age who "kept his mouth shut" during meetings. Don't hire a guy as a varsity coach if you don't want his opinion. I think 9th and JV coaches should always defer to the varsity staff on things. Coaches IN General should: 1. Do things that need to be done. Take pride in the program and make it better. ADD VALUE. 2. Stay within the schemes and offer well-thought out ideas and ANSWERS. 3. DO YOUR JOB. Simple, but often over looked. I wouldn't want a coach on my staff, regardless of age, who didn't want to contribute and add value to the program beyond field work. If you want to sit back while others do the grunt work (unless you are a coordinator or HC) then I don't think many HC's would want to hire guys like that regardless of whether they are young or old. If you hire a first year guy to coach your varsity chances are you're not very good at hiring people. I don't know a lot of guys that are going to hire someone with no experience and expect them to be good coaches. we go into this knowing that first year coaches are awful coaches. sorry to be the one that shoots straight here, and i hate to hurt some of your lil feelings, but the truth is the first two years young guys just get in the way until they learn the game and learn how to really coach. There is a difference between adding value and opening your mouth. Add value by doing the things that nobody else wants to do, and do it before you're asked to do it. if laundry needs doing, do it. if there's trash piling up, take it out. you get the point... but i don't need your input in the meeting room unless I ask for it, and I also don't need your suggestions about how we can be more like ________ if we just do it this way. One of the hardest things I dealt with coming up was humbling myself to understand that 1. this will be a long learning process, 2. nobody wants to hear my opinions 3. this is HARD work 4. I don't know anything I thought I knew, and finally 5. these guys know more than I do. Just because I yell loud does not mean i'm a good coach.
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dbeck84
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Post by dbeck84 on Oct 21, 2015 9:24:31 GMT -6
What kind of "young coaches" are we talking about here? 9th grade? JV? Varsity? If you are hired to be a varsity coach, I would be furious as a HC with a coach regardless of age who "kept his mouth shut" during meetings. Don't hire a guy as a varsity coach if you don't want his opinion. I think 9th and JV coaches should always defer to the varsity staff on things. Coaches IN General should: 1. Do things that need to be done. Take pride in the program and make it better. ADD VALUE. 2. Stay within the schemes and offer well-thought out ideas and ANSWERS. 3. DO YOUR JOB. Simple, but often over looked. I wouldn't want a coach on my staff, regardless of age, who didn't want to contribute and add value to the program beyond field work. If you want to sit back while others do the grunt work (unless you are a coordinator or HC) then I don't think many HC's would want to hire guys like that regardless of whether they are young or old. If you hire a first year guy to coach your varsity chances are you're not very good at hiring people. I don't know a lot of guys that are going to hire someone with no experience and expect them to be good coaches. we go into this knowing that first year coaches are awful coaches. sorry to be the one that shoots straight here, and i hate to hurt some of your lil feelings, but the truth is the first two years young guys just get in the way until they learn the game and learn how to really coach. There is a difference between adding value and opening your mouth. Add value by doing the things that nobody else wants to do, and do it before you're asked to do it. if laundry needs doing, do it. if there's trash piling up, take it out. you get the point... but i don't need your input in the meeting room unless I ask for it, and I also don't need your suggestions about how we can be more like ________ if we just do it this way. One of the hardest things I dealt with coming up was humbling myself to understand that 1. this will be a long learning process, 2. nobody wants to hear my opinions 3. this is HARD work 4. I don't know anything I thought I knew, and finally 5. these guys know more than I do. Just because I yell loud does not mean i'm a good coach. So if I'm a young coach, and I'm not btw, and my only job is to do the bitch work that no one else wants to do, why am i going to stick around? I'll find a staff where my opinions and ideas are valued. Where are you finding these first year coaches that know absolutely nothing about the game of football?
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Post by fantom on Oct 21, 2015 9:34:23 GMT -6
If you hire a first year guy to coach your varsity chances are you're not very good at hiring people. I don't know a lot of guys that are going to hire someone with no experience and expect them to be good coaches. we go into this knowing that first year coaches are awful coaches. sorry to be the one that shoots straight here, and i hate to hurt some of your lil feelings, but the truth is the first two years young guys just get in the way until they learn the game and learn how to really coach. There is a difference between adding value and opening your mouth. Add value by doing the things that nobody else wants to do, and do it before you're asked to do it. if laundry needs doing, do it. if there's trash piling up, take it out. you get the point... but i don't need your input in the meeting room unless I ask for it, and I also don't need your suggestions about how we can be more like ________ if we just do it this way. One of the hardest things I dealt with coming up was humbling myself to understand that 1. this will be a long learning process, 2. nobody wants to hear my opinions 3. this is HARD work 4. I don't know anything I thought I knew, and finally 5. these guys know more than I do. Just because I yell loud does not mean i'm a good coach. So if I'm a young coach, and I'm not btw, and my only job is to do the bitch work that no one else wants to do, why am i going to stick around? I'll find a staff where my opinions and ideas are valued. Where are you finding these first year coaches that know absolutely nothing about the game of football? It's not that they don't know football. It's that (1) They don't know as much as they think that they do; and (2) Thy don't know how to teach it. Still, I disagree with the idea that new coaches shouldn't make suggestions or voice their opinions.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 21, 2015 9:39:33 GMT -6
What kind of "young coaches" are we talking about here? 9th grade? JV? Varsity? If you are hired to be a varsity coach, I would be furious as a HC with a coach regardless of age who "kept his mouth shut" during meetings. Don't hire a guy as a varsity coach if you don't want his opinion. I think 9th and JV coaches should always defer to the varsity staff on things. Coaches IN General should: 1. Do things that need to be done. Take pride in the program and make it better. ADD VALUE. 2. Stay within the schemes and offer well-thought out ideas and ANSWERS. 3. DO YOUR JOB. Simple, but often over looked. I wouldn't want a coach on my staff, regardless of age, who didn't want to contribute and add value to the program beyond field work. If you want to sit back while others do the grunt work (unless you are a coordinator or HC) then I don't think many HC's would want to hire guys like that regardless of whether they are young or old. If you hire a first year guy to coach your varsity chances are you're not very good at hiring people. I don't know a lot of guys that are going to hire someone with no experience and expect them to be good coaches. we go into this knowing that first year coaches are awful coaches. sorry to be the one that shoots straight here, and i hate to hurt some of your lil feelings, but the truth is the first two years young guys just get in the way until they learn the game and learn how to really coach. There is a difference between adding value and opening your mouth. Add value by doing the things that nobody else wants to do, and do it before you're asked to do it. if laundry needs doing, do it. if there's trash piling up, take it out. you get the point... but i don't need your input in the meeting room unless I ask for it, and I also don't need your suggestions about how we can be more like ________ if we just do it this way. One of the hardest things I dealt with coming up was humbling myself to understand that 1. this will be a long learning process, 2. nobody wants to hear my opinions 3. this is HARD work 4. I don't know anything I thought I knew, and finally 5. these guys know more than I do. Just because I yell loud does not mean i'm a good coach. There is a lot of truth in this post, but it is not the 100% truth. While everyone improves with experience and while we all are better coaches now than we were when we started out, there are good young coaches who will just become great older coaches.
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dbeck84
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Post by dbeck84 on Oct 21, 2015 9:45:50 GMT -6
If you hire a first year guy to coach your varsity chances are you're not very good at hiring people. I don't know a lot of guys that are going to hire someone with no experience and expect them to be good coaches. we go into this knowing that first year coaches are awful coaches. sorry to be the one that shoots straight here, and i hate to hurt some of your lil feelings, but the truth is the first two years young guys just get in the way until they learn the game and learn how to really coach. There is a difference between adding value and opening your mouth. Add value by doing the things that nobody else wants to do, and do it before you're asked to do it. if laundry needs doing, do it. if there's trash piling up, take it out. you get the point... but i don't need your input in the meeting room unless I ask for it, and I also don't need your suggestions about how we can be more like ________ if we just do it this way. One of the hardest things I dealt with coming up was humbling myself to understand that 1. this will be a long learning process, 2. nobody wants to hear my opinions 3. this is HARD work 4. I don't know anything I thought I knew, and finally 5. these guys know more than I do. Just because I yell loud does not mean i'm a good coach. There is a lot of truth in this post, but it is not the 100% truth. While everyone improves with experience and while we all are better coaches now than we were when we started out, there are good young coaches who will just become great older coaches. I agree totally. Coaches become better by being able to voice their ideas an opinions and have a more experienced coach tell them, "That's a good idea because..." or "That won't work because...". No one will learn anything by being a glorified, or even not glorified, manager.
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tobc
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Post by tobc on Oct 21, 2015 9:51:16 GMT -6
you guys get your feathers ruffled too easily.
i was a young coach myself once. fresh out of college, thought i knew everything about coaching ball, went to my first pre-season coaches meeting and found out very quickly that i had a TON of learning to do. i had ideas, thoughts, and opinions. who doesn't? but i found out that those ideas and opinions can get shot down really quick if you don't know exactly what you're talking about. i figured out then, that i needed to keep my mouth shut, learn from the older guys on staff, and do what all coaches have to do when they first start out: PUT IN THEIR TIME. i went in thinking that i was going to revolutionize the way things were done because i thought i knew it all about coaching. i had to learn how to game plan, i had to learn how to watch and effectively break down film, i had to learn how to teach what we wanted the kids to do in a way that they were able to learn it. a lot of these young guys want to go into coaching thinking they know everything there is about coaching when in all reality they don't know crap. like the guy stated above, if your idea gets shot down, don't get butt hurt over it. move on. i've seen some guys that will start having a cussing fit because they thought they weren't being given a fair chance because their idea was shot down. and for those of you who don't agree with the young guys doing the grunt work: you are out of your mind. its called a right of passage. i've been in it for a while, and i still help mow the field, stripe it, do laundry, etc. had a young kid on staff one year who thought all that crap was beneath him. he didn't last in the profession very long.
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Post by fantom on Oct 21, 2015 9:54:31 GMT -6
There is a lot of truth in this post, but it is not the 100% truth. While everyone improves with experience and while we all are better coaches now than we were when we started out, there are good young coaches who will just become great older coaches. I agree totally. Coaches become better by being able to voice their ideas an opinions and have a more experienced coach tell them, "That's a good idea because..." or "That won't work because...". No one will learn anything by being a glorified, or even not glorified, manager. Keep in mind that a new coach's role will be different in different programs. At an established program at a big school there will be different expectations for a kid right out of college then there will be at a Single A school with a four man staff.
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pistola
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Post by pistola on Oct 21, 2015 10:37:22 GMT -6
exactly fantom.. alot of people seem to be talking about rather large staffs, with multiple level staffs, and alot of coaches, in reality there are just as many smaller school staffs with very few coaches. so expectations will vary greatly between the two.
A first year coach at school with 3-4 coaches will be coaching varsity in some capacity. The biggest things a first year coach can learn is that they dont know near as much as they think (actually one of the biggest things a coach in any year can learn or know), and all of the things that go along with coaching that arent on the field (hours, house work)
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j4setti
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Post by j4setti on Oct 21, 2015 10:48:03 GMT -6
I think young coaches (I myself is still considered young at 35) need to listen to the Head Coach and look at them as a mentor and don't worry about titles and just coach. There are too coaches that care about title. They want to be the assistant Offensive Coordinator or something. Just go out there, coach your position and be yourself.
Also, we have had young coaches on the staff that didn't support the Head Coach and some of his decisions. Someone mentioned that earlier in this thread. Especially if that coach is young and befriends some of the players, it can really ruin chemistry between the kids and the staff. Assistant Coaches need to support the Head Coach regardless of theories. If the Head Coach says the sky is Green, dam it the sky is Green.
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Post by fbs on Oct 21, 2015 10:55:50 GMT -6
If you hire a first year guy to coach your varsity chances are you're not very good at hiring people. I don't know a lot of guys that are going to hire someone with no experience and expect them to be good coaches. we go into this knowing that first year coaches are awful coaches. sorry to be the one that shoots straight here, and i hate to hurt some of your lil feelings, but the truth is the first two years young guys just get in the way until they learn the game and learn how to really coach. There is a difference between adding value and opening your mouth. Add value by doing the things that nobody else wants to do, and do it before you're asked to do it. if laundry needs doing, do it. if there's trash piling up, take it out. you get the point... but i don't need your input in the meeting room unless I ask for it, and I also don't need your suggestions about how we can be more like ________ if we just do it this way. One of the hardest things I dealt with coming up was humbling myself to understand that 1. this will be a long learning process, 2. nobody wants to hear my opinions 3. this is HARD work 4. I don't know anything I thought I knew, and finally 5. these guys know more than I do. Just because I yell loud does not mean i'm a good coach. So if I'm a young coach, and I'm not btw, and my only job is to do the bitch work that no one else wants to do, why am i going to stick around? I'll find a staff where my opinions and ideas are valued. Where are you finding these first year coaches that know absolutely nothing about the game of football? I feel like your reaction shows your age... hang in there, kid, it'll all make sense in a few years.
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Post by ogre5530 on Oct 21, 2015 10:57:45 GMT -6
A mistake young or old, but mainly seen with younger guys is not being loyal to the HC. I've seen young guys with their own agenda bad mouth the HC plenty of times and we paid for it when the team was not on the same page as a result of a lack of staff loyalty.
Also, don't air our your dirty laundry on social media!
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Post by 33coach on Oct 21, 2015 11:21:54 GMT -6
Still Learning folks...
i had one yesterday - after 7 years, this is the first time anyone has brought it up to me.
We were running a drill, and we had kids who werent getting it. i was getting pi$$ed after the 3rd or 4th time i yelled "same group". to the point where the other coach had to step in and he said "dont be so sensitive when kids dont do something right".
and that hit me, i wasnt getting mad because they werent doing it right. i was mad because the drill wasnt going the way i wanted it to... like a little kid throwing a tantrum.
i had to step back, reevaluate and attack the problem from a new direction.
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Post by fshamrock on Oct 21, 2015 13:52:40 GMT -6
One thing that I've started to notice lately that hasn't been mentioned is how young coaches will act when they are around opposing teams coaches.
Note to young coaches: you are not playing in the game, at no point will you get into a physical confrontation with the opposing coaches. They are almost certainly decent guys that are pretty much like you in every way. When you see them before the game, or after the game, or in your personal life, there is no reason to spread your lats and bow your neck up like you are mortal enemies about to face off in a highlander style battle to the death. It is perfectly fine to talk to them like you would any other human being.
It always cracks me up when guys do this, It's usually young guys...but not always.
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Post by fbs on Oct 21, 2015 14:37:08 GMT -6
I think young coaches (I myself is still considered young at 35) need to listen to the Head Coach and look at them as a mentor and don't worry about titles and just coach. There are too coaches that care about title. They want to be the assistant Offensive Coordinator or something. Just go out there, coach your position and be yourself. Also, we have had young coaches on the staff that didn't support the Head Coach and some of his decisions. Someone mentioned that earlier in this thread. Especially if that coach is young and befriends some of the players, it can really ruin chemistry between the kids and the staff. Assistant Coaches need to support the Head Coach regardless of theories. If the Head Coach says the sky is Green, dam it the sky is Green. 100% this. well said. Your career will take care of itself and you'll get those titles when you are ready. The funny thing that a lot of young guys don't realize is that you probably won't ever be your current head coaches OC or DC, but if you ever get one of those titles it will probably be from one of the coordinators or assistants you work with now down the road. What I'm saying is that if you bust your butt and understand that every relationship you make will either help or hurt you sometime in your career (to varying degrees obviously), you'll be way ahead of the curve. As far as supporting your HC... You took the job, it's your duty as a professional to support the HC's decisions and when contract time comes up, if you vehemently disagree with the direction, then it's time to find another job that suits you better. Trust me guys, nothing will get you blackballed in this business quicker than being disloyal. I would NEVER recommend someone to another coach if they had shown disloyalty to me. Never.
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Post by fbs on Oct 21, 2015 14:40:03 GMT -6
Still Learning folks... i had one yesterday - after 7 years, this is the first time anyone has brought it up to me. We were running a drill, and we had kids who werent getting it. i was getting pi$$ed after the 3rd or 4th time i yelled "same group". to the point where the other coach had to step in and he said "dont be so sensitive when kids dont do something right". and that hit me, i wasnt getting mad because they werent doing it right. i was mad because the drill wasnt going the way i wanted it to... like a little kid throwing a tantrum. i had to step back, reevaluate and attack the problem from a new direction. You're right, man... I feel embarrassed when it doesn't go the way I want it to. Now sometimes I have to go back to the drawing board and see if it's me, the drill, or the kids that are making it not work. If it's anything but the drill, I can then ask the question "what's the adjustment to make it work?" You're right though... sometimes our approach is as if we are doing the drill and it should be perfect.
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Post by fbs on Oct 21, 2015 14:42:42 GMT -6
Still Learning folks... i had one yesterday - after 7 years, this is the first time anyone has brought it up to me. We were running a drill, and we had kids who werent getting it. i was getting pi$$ed after the 3rd or 4th time i yelled "same group". to the point where the other coach had to step in and he said "dont be so sensitive when kids dont do something right". and that hit me, i wasnt getting mad because they werent doing it right. i was mad because the drill wasnt going the way i wanted it to... like a little kid throwing a tantrum. i had to step back, reevaluate and attack the problem from a new direction. man you're right about that. I know exactly what you mean. When this happens to me I have to figure out if it's me, the kids or the drill that's keeping it from being successful. That's frustrating, but humbling... it teaches you really quick that a drill isn't going to work just because YOU (SUPERCOACH) are the one running it. At the end of the day, all we really do is solve problems anyway, so this is really right up our alley.
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Post by fbs on Oct 21, 2015 14:43:41 GMT -6
double post... it told me the last one didn't go through so I reposted it but got derailed from the first one.
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