Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2014 0:23:09 GMT -6
How do you handle it when your players are acting up in class and a teacher comes to you for help in reigning him in?
Do you address the situation by punishing that player at practice or do you tell the teacher that she should handle her classroom discipline herself and leave you alone?
I've been a part of staffs now where each of the above approaches were in place. At my last school, if we heard a kid was causing trouble or if he'd been sent to the office, he'd answer to us by running hills after practice-10 for the first offense, 20 for the second, etc. At my current one, we used to be strict about holding kids accountable for missed workouts and stuff, but our policy is that we never punish kids for things that don't involve football because we don't want teachers pushing their classroom management problems onto us or treating football players more harshly than other students.
Teachers come up to us all the time at my current school complaining about stuff the players do in their classes (disrespect, disruption, bullying, not doing their work, or saying/doing inappropriate things with girls are the usual issues), whereas at the last school (3 times larger with 2 times as many players) that was pretty rare.
How do you handle this stuff?
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Post by Coach Bennett on May 11, 2014 5:30:27 GMT -6
I tell our teachers that if Johnny is acting up, keep him after school. A natural consequence is that he will miss some/all practice time and now will be disciplined by me for missing practice.
I like this approach b/c it still asks the teaching staff to take a role in disciplining THEIR student and doesn't use sports to punish a kid. The athlete also (hopefully) sees the ripple effect of his actions.
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Post by blb on May 11, 2014 6:22:24 GMT -6
Before school starts I tell team we expect them to attend (on time), behave, study, learn, and achieve. Just like they do for Football. Prepare for tests like they do for games.
If I hear of a problem from a teacher, I will address it with player, including caveat that if problem persists, there will be consequences (PIE).
We try to run our program in such a way that kids learn habits that can carry over into classroom.
At risk of breaking my arm patting myself on the back, it must work because at most of places I've been HC have had teachers and-or administrators comment on improved behavior of Football players in school.
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Post by fantom on May 11, 2014 8:27:39 GMT -6
If we find out that a player is causing problems we'll address it with some extra work after practice. We think that it helps everybody. It gives us a chance to take care of problems before they escalate into something too serious and it helps our relationship with the faculty. Sure there will be some weak teachers who are looking for a crutch and a few who just have a hard-on for football players but it doesn't take long to figure out who they are. A kid who gets into "trouble" for chewing gum does not get the same punishment as one who's cutting class and generally being a jerk.
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Post by powerfootball71 on May 11, 2014 8:59:22 GMT -6
Not working on campus I hate spending the first 15 min hearing from administration about football guys. I don't get alot of this anymore. What I do is take the offending player Usally a under classmen and have them run with the entire o and d lines after practice. When the other players ask why they are running for John boys in class screw up. The awnser is for failing to properly install the standards of the line and lack of leadership.
Is it right? I just now you take 12 or so guys between 6' and 6' 6" 220 to 300 pounds make them run tell they damn near puke because a football player is a jack ass in class it tends to only happen once and they sort of takes care of it self.
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Post by fantom on May 11, 2014 9:15:49 GMT -6
Not working on campus I hate spending the first 15 min hearing from administration about football guys. I don't get alot of this anymore. What I do is take the offending player Usally a under classmen and have them run with the entire o and d lines after practice. When the other players ask why they are running for John boys in class screw up. The awnser is for failing to properly install the standards of the line and lack of leadership. Is it right? I just now you take 12 or so guys between 6' and 6' 6" 220 to 300 pounds make them run tell they damn near puke because a football player is a jack ass in class it tends to only happen once and they sort of takes care of it self. Unless one of them breaks the kid's jaw and you end up in court, fighting to save your teaching job, and banned from coaching (and that's not a hypothetical case). |
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souza12
Sophomore Member
Posts: 179 
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Post by souza12 on May 11, 2014 10:29:05 GMT -6
How do you handle it when your players are acting up in class and a teacher comes to you for help in reigning him in? Do you address the situation by punishing that player at practice or do you tell the teacher that she should handle her classroom discipline herself and leave you alone? I've been a part of staffs now where each of the above approaches were in place. At my last school, if we heard a kid was causing trouble or if he'd been sent to the office, he'd answer to us by running hills after practice-10 for the first offense, 20 for the second, etc. At my current one, we used to be strict about holding kids accountable for missed workouts and stuff, but our policy is that we never punish kids for things that don't involve football because we don't want teachers pushing their classroom management problems onto us or treating football players more harshly than other students. Teachers come up to us all the time at my current school complaining about stuff the players do in their classes (disrespect, disruption, bullying, not doing their work, or saying/doing inappropriate things with girls are the usual issues), whereas at the last school (3 times larger with 2 times as many players) that was pretty rare. How do you handle this stuff? I guess you could hold a meeting between player/coach/teacher and perhaps the parent |
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Post by fantom on May 11, 2014 10:36:05 GMT -6
How do you handle it when your players are acting up in class and a teacher comes to you for help in reigning him in? Do you address the situation by punishing that player at practice or do you tell the teacher that she should handle her classroom discipline herself and leave you alone? I've been a part of staffs now where each of the above approaches were in place. At my last school, if we heard a kid was causing trouble or if he'd been sent to the office, he'd answer to us by running hills after practice-10 for the first offense, 20 for the second, etc. At my current one, we used to be strict about holding kids accountable for missed workouts and stuff, but our policy is that we never punish kids for things that don't involve football because we don't want teachers pushing their classroom management problems onto us or treating football players more harshly than other students. Teachers come up to us all the time at my current school complaining about stuff the players do in their classes (disrespect, disruption, bullying, not doing their work, or saying/doing inappropriate things with girls are the usual issues), whereas at the last school (3 times larger with 2 times as many players) that was pretty rare. How do you handle this stuff? I guess you could hold a meeting between player/coach/teacher and perhaps the parent Do you really want to schedule formal conference every time every time a kid wears a hat to class? |
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Post by coachdubyah on May 11, 2014 11:19:13 GMT -6
Not working on campus I hate spending the first 15 min hearing from administration about football guys. I don't get alot of this anymore. What I do is take the offending player Usally a under classmen and have them run with the entire o and d lines after practice. When the other players ask why they are running for John boys in class screw up. The awnser is for failing to properly install the standards of the line and lack of leadership. Is it right? I just now you take 12 or so guys between 6' and 6' 6" 220 to 300 pounds make them run tell they damn near puke because a football player is a jack ass in class it tends to only happen once and they sort of takes care of it self. Unless one of them breaks the kid's jaw and you end up in court, fighting to save your teaching job, and banned from coaching (and that's not a hypothetical case). BigM (can't remember his full screen name) said something that has stuck with me. Since then I have presented it to our HC. We implement it and our Classroom discipline has improved tremendously. Offending players will be dealt with by themselves. We usually make them do something that "will not help them in football" (Bear Crawls, Tire Runs, Indian Mile, etc...). We only punish the group for mental mistakes (penalties, missed assignments, etc...). If they are a repeat offender, you suspend them from anything football for a week. Is that what everyone wants to hear??? No. But in this day and age their needs to be consequences from the Coaches not players. Our starting Tb, probably one of our best and we were not very good last year, has missed the first week of Spring due to this very issue. Will it work? We will find out Monday. But, this has gotten our kids attention. There is no use in punishing kids that do the right thing for the few Jake Legs that do the wrong thing. Note: Make sure the teacher is not one of those that "targets" football players. You would be surprised by how much this happens. You will know when you come across them. |
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souza12
Sophomore Member
Posts: 179
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Post by souza12 on May 11, 2014 11:49:11 GMT -6
I guess you could hold a meeting between player/coach/teacher and perhaps the parent Do you really want to schedule formal conference every time every time a kid wears a hat to class? OP listed reasonable offenses such as bullying, disrespect, etc. I dont think wearing a hat in class falls within "acting out" ... now if he was being a dick about taking a hat off in class well then my answer is yes. I really just want an opportunity to meet the teacher.. get a feel for their temperment and personality.. and it can better prepare me for likely future conflicts. If we are going to talk about being more than football coaches to these young people this isnt really a drastic step to take. |
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Post by powerfootball71 on May 11, 2014 13:07:43 GMT -6
Of corse i don't advocate violence towards the
Offender. A little peer pressure gos a long way. Bottom line I expect players to reflect the program at all times and am willing to go to fairly extrema measures to insure it. If a kid hits a kid then we are out two players. But creating a culture where the older kids let the younger ones know you don't act like a ass in school creates a culture. Now the younger kids police themselves also. I don't spend much time thinking about lawsuits or what others out side the program think of me.
All I know is that's how I've handled it and haven't dealt with school discipline issues or academic issues at any the schools I've been at.Im shure there is a kinder gentler way but that's not me.
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Post by pvogel on May 11, 2014 13:31:17 GMT -6
If a teacher ever tells me anything about one of my kids doing something in their class or in the halls, i will have the kid do extra conditioning.
Teachers will always know that I will handle the issue and fix it. It gives them some peace of mind and helps you win the staff over. I know some teachers have some kind of bone to pick against football coaches or players or whatever but it is important to either get them on our side or give them nothing to be unreasonable about. It also guarantees that you don't lose a player for a game because they get assigned after school detention on a friday or something like that. It also stresses that our players are held to a higher standard and that they must walk the line and know that they are under a microscope. The issue tends to always get fixed.
The catch - Its not completely black/white. Punishment is varied based on severity. But they will always do something. It may just be a 100 yd sprint if its something real ridiculous and I know it will not happen again. But they know that they will do something.
When I have kids of my own, my policy at home will be similar.
If you put your hands up and say "not my problem, thats up to the teachers to maintain solid classroom management" then you're just like the parents who blame the school or teacher for their child's misbehavior.
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Post by carookie on May 11, 2014 16:39:56 GMT -6
I've found a simple, "cut the crap!" will go a long way to eliminate a problem. Shoot I'll talk to non football kids if they are acting up in a class where the teacher struggles with them. In the end they are my colleagues and I want to help them out. This kinda ties back to the thread about GPA, if a kid doesnt take care of business in the classroom they cant play. I want to be proactive to make sure I don't end up losing a kid for something as easy to handle as classroom discipline.
As far as those teachers who target football players, they are a rough lot to deal with. I had one guy who thought he could dictate specific punishments he wanted the football team to implement if a kid acted up in class. You don't want to step on toes, because you don't know how vindictive he may end up being, but you certainly cannot let him dictate what you do. Find your best allies in admin document and keep them informed of his attempts; that way if he does try some superfluous punishments on a Friday night you can try to stop it.
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Post by Wingtman on May 11, 2014 19:29:55 GMT -6
"One of YOUR football players"...Goodness, I hate that sentence. Shouldn't it be, "One of my students"? Anyway...
Agree with what's been said by someone earlier, if Johnny is being a jerk, keep him after school. He misses practice, then it's my problem.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on May 11, 2014 22:52:38 GMT -6
Does anyone do anything other than run kids to death for discipline? It works but I don't want athletes to associate running with punishment. For me, It is something you do to get better. I've made kids clean locker rooms, sheds, weight rooms. When we run out of chores to do, I have them make a sand castle in our sand pit for a couple hours. They hate it, it's pointless and they know it, we then take a picture and post it in the locker room before they have to smooth it out as soon as they soon as they are done.
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Post by tothehouse on May 11, 2014 23:08:04 GMT -6
I have told teachers..."I'll talk to Johnny" and then did some conditioning. I got an email two days in a row. I told the teacher..."if Johnny is a problem give him the discipline you'd give any other kid in the class". Then I boom Johnny a little more. Depending on what he did he would also be apologizing.
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Post by Coach Bennett on May 12, 2014 4:38:22 GMT -6
Just playing devil's advocate here but let's pretend it's not a teacher who is having problems with discipline, it's a parent. Would you follow the same course?
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Post by blb on May 12, 2014 6:05:27 GMT -6
Just playing devil's advocate here but let's pretend it's not a teacher who is having problems with discipline, it's a parent. Would you follow the same course?
Not unless it involves a training rule violation.
I tell them I can't do in 11 weeks what hasn't been done in 15-17 years.
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Post by larrymoe on May 12, 2014 8:15:29 GMT -6
My involvement in other teacher's classrooms is sort of dependent on the kid, the teacher and the violation. There are some teachers who tell me things and I don't do anything to the kid because I know they don't do anything in their classroom to correct the behavior. It is not my job to discipline your classroom just because you don't want to.
However, if a teacher is having some particular issues with a student and has taken steps to correct it, then we get involved.
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beebe
Freshmen Member
Posts: 32
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Post by beebe on May 12, 2014 9:54:04 GMT -6
I believe that I want my football players representing themselves in a proper manner at all times. I am in my first semester as HC after 3 years as an assistant here. The kids know that when I ask them to do something I will follow through. The first thing i did was make them where their IDs (school rules require this) when I catch them without it they do 10 pushups on the spot. They are almost all wearing their IDs at all times now. Been about 2 weeks so far. As for discipline in class, yes that is the teachers job but, there is no doubt I have WAY more power to influence the football players than a teacher does. Yes I will require them to do some form of punishment that varies by the severity of the infraction and the number of infractions. I would much rather nip the problem in the bud than have to have a kid miss practice due to a detention. A little extra work on my part, that pays off sooner than later. Plus my inventive punishments are quickly becoming the talk of the team. They absolutely hate them.
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Post by larrymoe on May 12, 2014 10:46:36 GMT -6
I believe that I want my football players representing themselves in a proper manner at all times. I am in my first semester as HC after 3 years as an assistant here. The kids know that when I ask them to do something I will follow through. The first thing i did was make them where their IDs (school rules require this) when I catch them without it they do 10 pushups on the spot. They are almost all wearing their IDs at all times now. Been about 2 weeks so far. As for discipline in class, yes that is the teachers job but, there is no doubt I have WAY more power to influence the football players than a teacher does. Yes I will require them to do some form of punishment that varies by the severity of the infraction and the number of infractions. I would much rather nip the problem in the bud than have to have a kid miss practice due to a detention. A little extra work on my part, that pays off sooner than later. Plus my inventive punishments are quickly becoming the talk of the team. They absolutely hate them. If it is a "school rule", why are they just now wearing them? Are you going to hold true to this punishment for any complaint rule when you eventually run into that "one" teacher that inevitably you will? It's very easy to stick to your guns and make bold predictions early on, but it's a little harder to do once you have that "one" experience. |
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Post by blb on May 12, 2014 10:56:57 GMT -6
We have three weeks of official Football practice before school starts.
That's three weeks where we can teach players importance of Self-Discipline, punctuality, respect for others ("Golden Rule"), etc., all habits that can carryover into classroom.
If we do that then we may not have to worry about dealing with teachers and classroom problems. |
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Post by mariner42 on May 12, 2014 12:31:48 GMT -6
Note: Make sure the teacher is not one of those that "targets" football players. You would be surprised by how much this happens. You will know when you come across them. I didn't believe this to be 100% true, but then I met one. He ended up giving football players a full grade less than their typical grade. An A student FB player will get a B in their class, almost guaranteed. He also managed to block my being hired there, despite the fact that he had previously requested me as a sub anytime I was out for a whole year. To paraphrase my students: The 'haters' are real. |
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Post by fballcoachg on May 12, 2014 17:06:40 GMT -6
I am all for reinforcement but this is more of a story...
One teacher wore out my old HC about disciplining football players. It was nearly every day, she had even contacted him about non-football players, she thought they were because they were athletic looking. He stops by her class a few times unannounced to check up on the players, she is behind the computer each time and all of the kids are treating it like a free period. Sure enough he gets an email with a list of players that were disrupting the class and refusing to do as they were told, at this point it is clear it was her. About a week later there is a fight in the cafeteria, the fight is brought up at the faculty meeting (fights weren't uncommon, just happened to be the end of a bad week and the principal wanted to reiterate some things). The HC is asked to say somethings about discipline etc as that was essentially his job, after he makes a few generic statements he drops "Well I think if anyone else runs in to problems with Mrs. Williams english students they should email her, she is very supportive of the 'takes a village' philosophy and will take extra time to remind her students how important it is to behave from bell to bell."
Crickets except for every sport coach in the building holding in laughs, the man had clearly reached his point and besides some bickering in the halls she stopped sending emails for every little problem.
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beebe
Freshmen Member
Posts: 32
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Post by beebe on May 13, 2014 6:48:51 GMT -6
I believe that I want my football players representing themselves in a proper manner at all times. I am in my first semester as HC after 3 years as an assistant here. The kids know that when I ask them to do something I will follow through. The first thing i did was make them where their IDs (school rules require this) when I catch them without it they do 10 pushups on the spot. They are almost all wearing their IDs at all times now. Been about 2 weeks so far. As for discipline in class, yes that is the teachers job but, there is no doubt I have WAY more power to influence the football players than a teacher does. Yes I will require them to do some form of punishment that varies by the severity of the infraction and the number of infractions. I would much rather nip the problem in the bud than have to have a kid miss practice due to a detention. A little extra work on my part, that pays off sooner than later. Plus my inventive punishments are quickly becoming the talk of the team. They absolutely hate them. If it is a "school rule", why are they just now wearing them? Are you going to hold true to this punishment for any complaint rule when you eventually run into that "one" teacher that inevitably you will? It's very easy to stick to your guns and make bold predictions early on, but it's a little harder to do once you have that "one" experience. First of all, when the former HC had the job it was not a priority for him. I am making it a priority. School enforcement has been spotty, but I expect my kids to be leaders in the school. And yes, I will stick to it even after THAT teacher. I am not easily swayed from my convictions. Discipline is key for football but it is not only for the football field. If a student/athlete cannot have discipline in all areas then their discipline will fail on the field. That is my belief.....the more they can act with discipline the better they will be. |
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Post by larrymoe on May 13, 2014 7:11:20 GMT -6
My question was this- if it is a school rule, then it should be enforced by the school, not the football coach. If the school is that lax on enforcing rules, your battle is going to be more than uphill.
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scottc
Sophomore Member
Posts: 149
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Post by scottc on May 13, 2014 7:41:40 GMT -6
I think it depends on many factors: kid, teacher, behavior in question.
I always told our kids that once the problem gets to us the teacher is right. I agree it is not my job to discipline another teacher's classroom but once the problem reaches me I have to go about some way to back that teacher up so not to undercut their authority any further. Its kinda like the questions what if this happened how would you react? You really cant give a good answer until you are in the situation.
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Post by fantom on May 13, 2014 8:06:19 GMT -6
I can't understand why a coach wouldn't want to help to discipline his players.
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Post by larrymoe on May 13, 2014 8:20:16 GMT -6
I can't understand why a coach wouldn't want to help to discipline his players. If my players are truly an issue in class, I will certainly do what I can to help stop the issue. However, when you have a few busy body old bitties such as I do right now, I can't help but be a little leery when they come up to me every five seconds and tell me who is doing what and then expect me to correct it when I know they don't do anything about it in class. It's just expected to be my responsibility because they're "football players". On a school wide level, I don't understand why you have school rules if apparently everyone in the building but you isn't going to enforce them. |
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Post by s73 on May 13, 2014 8:32:25 GMT -6
I've kind of think disciplining your players is (like most things in life) situational. One kid requires a discussion w/ the old "I'm really disappointed" Richie Cunningham approach, another requires conditioning and then some just suffer from a medical condition I call "numb nuts" . These guys usually just get cut loose.
I think in our position, we have to be able to "read kids" and their behavior as well as we judge talent. To me, it's kind of the same thing.
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