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Post by coachfite on Sept 7, 2007 10:08:48 GMT -6
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Post by timtheenchanter on Sept 7, 2007 11:00:00 GMT -6
From a non-coaches perspective, the coach can't let them come back on their terms. If he does, he will have lost all authority over that team and program. Ultimately, it is that coach's program until the time he is relieved of that duty by the school district. To allow a group of students to use a walk out to exert control over the football team will render the coach a figure head if they are successful.
Self analysis is hard at any level and those players' parents are doing them no favors by allowing this to occur. Some of the best lessons I learned in my life were in football when I didn't agree with a coach and dad made me gut it out and work through it. Quiting was never provided as an option and quiting on my team was even less so. Just the humble opinion of a former player and current official.
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Post by coachjimmer on Sept 7, 2007 11:57:53 GMT -6
Great post, Referee!
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Post by wingtol on Sept 7, 2007 12:31:21 GMT -6
What a nice commentary on the state of the youth now days. My parents would have been like....What you boycotted practice? Cause the coach said you didn't do your job in the game? Are you kidding me! Get your a$$ back to practice before we kill you!! Guess who was on the field during the game junior? You not the coach so drag your a$$ back and hope to God that the coach takes you back cause if he doesn't you can sleep in the basement for a month!
When the going gets tough...just quit..........
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Post by coachdbs on Sept 7, 2007 12:49:28 GMT -6
What a terrible lesson for these players. I worked in private industry for 8 years before becoming a teacher/coach. There are so many flippin a$$holes in corporate America and many of them are in management. The walkout method works really great in business. You walkout...you get fired and they find someone else at a lower salary. If that was my kid, I would kick his butt (figuratively) all the way back to school and he would apologize to his coaches and teammates!
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Post by superpower on Sept 7, 2007 13:04:24 GMT -6
Reminds me of the scene in HOOSIERS when one of the players walks out of practice and the dad drags him back in a short time later. Junior is much more humble once dad gets ahold of him in the movie. Too bad that isn't how parents deal with things any longer. These parents blew a perfect chance to teach a life long lesson.
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Post by mitch on Sept 7, 2007 13:07:25 GMT -6
With today's culture of "me first", this is going to become much more common.
Get ready.
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Post by wingt74 on Sept 7, 2007 13:36:52 GMT -6
There has to be more to this story...I hope there is. To have a group of kids walk out on a coach because he tore into them just makes me shiver at the thought.
What a waste of time coaching these kids if that is the case
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Post by superpower on Sept 7, 2007 13:45:58 GMT -6
The good news is that, at least from what I read into the article, the administration is supporting the coaching staff.
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50Murf
Sophomore Member
Posts: 212
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Post by 50Murf on Sept 7, 2007 13:51:44 GMT -6
This is a trend, and it is unfortunate that it is occurring. I see way too many kids who feel that things are supposed to be given to them - from welfare to opportunities. Somewhere, IMO, the current generation has lost that desire to get up and earn things on their own. Everyday at work (police officer) I come across kids who feel that they are entitled to stuff - stuff that I use to, and I am sure a lot of you did too, earned. Money, grades, a starting spot - all were earned when I was in HS. My gosh, I shiver to think what my parents would have done to me if I came home and told them I quit, or I stagged a walkout It would not have been a good thing, that is for certain. Not enough of kids today fear the phone call to home like I did when I was a kid, and I'm not that old - I'm 37. I guess the question is, when did things turn so bad, so quickly?? I agree with timtheenchanter, the coach can not bend his rules, for his sake, and the sake of this team and his program. I only hope he has a school board that will back him up.
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Post by burtledog on Sept 7, 2007 17:34:58 GMT -6
Guys: Never coached, did teach. Yes, it is believable that not much more could happen than "guys, you stunk" and 20 sr. and jr.'s would walk. In my opinion, the tipping point happened between 87 and91. I did my student teaching in 87, went into the Army. I did the student teaching in THE innner city school in a large southern town district. I had 1 discipline problem. In 91 I began subbing and eventually taught for 4 years. Even in a school full of military kids and later a suburb near my student teaching haunt discipline was non-existent. There was an excuse for everything from 8 to 18 and 75% of the time the parent either would not engage with you (not return calls or notes) or would come down on the side of a nearly violent disrepectful child. The diagnostician is the problem, not the diagnosis. Face it, since WW2 we have gotten what we wanted, and it has only made us want more for even less. A nice little depression would be good for us. No fighting over little dis's or wanting a better brand of sneaker when you only get a couple of lean meals and the thermostat is at 55 during a hard winter. Greg
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Post by eickst on Sept 7, 2007 17:41:39 GMT -6
I was born in 79 and consider myself to be part of one of the worst generations in US history. I had it rough, my dad was born in the early 40s and grew up in Georgia, so he didn't mess around with me. I got plenty of discipline, verbally and otherwise. But it doesn't surprise me that the timing another post suggested was between 87 and 91.
Kids starting school in 90-91 were born in 85-86, and their parents were probably born in the 60s. That means it's the hippies' kids that are ruining our country. Damn hippies.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 8, 2007 7:51:46 GMT -6
If that were my kid, I would drag his butt down to the practice and make him publicly apologize to the coaching staff for being an arrogant little tool. Of course, if I were the coach, I wouldn't accept the apology and send the little princesses packing.
Especially after b-tching about having to practice on Labor Day. If I had a team pitching a fit about practicing over on Labor day, I would schedule 2 practices that day. Make a loud point; when we have the time, we're going to practice.
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Post by phantom on Sept 8, 2007 9:20:36 GMT -6
Ridiculous. Practicing on Labor Day? I haven't had a Labor Day off since 1967. We practiced at 7 AM on Monday. We were done by 10. If they didn't have practice the kids wouldn't have been out of bed by then.
We had it happen to us. We suspended our star tailback for a game and the seniors boycotted practice supposedly until he was reinstated. We met with them and took them back but made clear that: A. we run the team, not them; and B. the tailback's suspension would stand. We lost the game but the stars replacement had a great game. We missed out on the playoffs by one game. That was one of our most talented but most underacheiving teams. Fortunately the underclassmen got the message. We've been pretty good since.
With all that said, the coach isn't blameless. You learn in Coaching 101 never to tell the kids that you coached well but they played bad. The Bear said, "When we lose it's the coaches. When we win it's the players.". I also agree with Ohio. There's more to the story. Maybe not.
Hopefully, the coach learned a lesson and the pu$$ies, whether they play again or not, did, too, and grow up.
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Post by coachfite on Sept 8, 2007 22:28:38 GMT -6
Update:
The school board announced the kids are not allowed back on the team. They have been kicked off.
The link will take you to the story. Hillcrest lost 56-12 (I think).
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Post by coachorr on Sept 9, 2007 0:43:56 GMT -6
These kids suffer from MMS. See it all the time in Idaho and Utah.
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Post by coachorr on Sept 9, 2007 0:46:08 GMT -6
MMS FOR SURE.
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Post by coachcoyote on Sept 9, 2007 2:07:15 GMT -6
Hurrah for the coaching staff and the school board. I would have never expected the admin. and the board to back them. Maybe the kids will learn something from this, both the ones that stayed and the ones who bolted.
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Post by coachfite on Sept 9, 2007 8:02:42 GMT -6
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Post by champ93 on Sept 9, 2007 13:44:44 GMT -6
After a 9th grade game 2 weeks ago, one of my coaches was verbally attacked by a parent who felt a 9th grade asst. was picking on his kid. I walked up just as the tirade began and tried to calm things (I'm the Varsity HC). I suggested a meeting away from the stadium when cooler heads could prevail, dad told me he didn't want to meet, I told him then it's time to leave, mom steps in and sets up a meeting for the next day. At the meeting (w/ the AD who witnessed this whole thing) mom tells me I'm unprofessional and I had no business stepping in during the altercation btw. her hubby and my coaches. (Did I mention she teaches 2nd grade in our district?) She has a list of complaints agst 1 coach. Things like "Jr. gets yelled at all the time. He just steps with the wrong foot and Coach ___ is on him!" & coach's comments like "will you guys (meaning the O-line) please block so & so (who is playing nose tackle), you're making him look like an all-American!" Needless to say, when Jr. (who is a screwball) gets in trouble for messing around, "he's being picked on". Thus, according to the parents, dad's screaming at the coach in front of players and spectators is justified. He's an angel, good kid, perfect student. I was encouraged to ask another asst., who had Jr in class last year, what a model student he is (I did, my asst. laughed and says he screws around all the time). The funny thing is, mom approached the asst. in question the second day of practice and asked him if her son had a bad attitude. But now, it's his fault that Jr. is 14 and moody. Of course, mom and dad aren't upset with him being yelled at because, and I quote "he gets that kind of abuse at home."
Eventually cooler heads prevailed, mom realizes Jr. isn't quite the angel (dad's not sold) she thinks and the coach isn't the devil, he's just trying to teach him about football and teamwork. Coach spoke with the boy and that fence is mending. However, the bad attitude is spreading throughout the 9th grade team. I can keep an eye on what is going on over there, but I can't control what happens in their homes.
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Post by coachorr on Sept 9, 2007 14:50:06 GMT -6
Mormon Mother Syndrome (MMS) is a case that I have seen many times at all three places I have coached. One place, nine varsity players walked out, because the coach called them on the carpet and questioned their effort.
In Idaho, and I would imagine the same is true in Utah, these kids come from excellent families with excellent values, which makes for great kids to coach. The moms of these kids are so over protective that they really have no salt to them. When someone gets on them or does not start them, then it is someone else's fault and the kid is allowed to quit. The mother then reassures the kid that it is okay, because football has little to do with the grand scheme of things. Things like seminary class and going on a mission are more important.
Well, I think that it is awesome that these kids are taught many values and have an understanding of the big picture, however, the Church (there is only one in Idaho and Utah) overrides everything, so a thing like a football team holds a trivial value, especially if the kid is not starting. I have seen this several several times. Great kids and great people, yet your football team doesn't really matter to them, nor do they see how it is going to teach them any lesson which the Church has not covered already.
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Post by carookie on Sept 10, 2007 23:17:40 GMT -6
I'm 27; graduated HS in 98, and my HS headcoach was an A-hole.....and I love the guy for it. Sure he'd chew me out, but thats football. I know that my generation (and now those who currently are in HS) has its fairshare of pansies but I'd like to think this isn't purely an age based thing, and hopefully not a trend. I've taught and coached in some bad places, with some bad attitudes, but couldnt imagine a mass exodus like this. Theres just an acceptance of mediocrity (which is a generational thing) but moreover there has to be more leadership on the team; a few guys who'd crack skulls for even talking about quiting. Guys who don't care about being popular but will keep the team in line.
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Post by amikell on Sept 11, 2007 9:12:42 GMT -6
Ok, I have to chime in on this one. 1st of all: I have actually been in a similar situation. The kids didn't quit, but made their point by taking their time through senior led stretches the next practice. while I do think the kids took it too far and the school board is right for not letting them back on the team, let's not forget the coach's role in this. Like Phantom said, when we win it's the kids, when we lose it's the coaches. I learned that lesson, and won't make the mistake of telling the kids it is the scheme that's gaining them yards and not them. (that's almost a quote. I was being a jerk. i was floundering for some way to get the team going. completely backfired.) Does it sound like the kids are being enabled by parents, yes. However, unless we know exactly what the coach said, then we can't really say that they are completely wrong. Think about it. If you saw the video of Miami Northwestern that was on here over the summer, would you want your kids playing for those A$$holes? I wouldn't. to be honest, I might pull my kid against his wishes.
All I'm saying is that before we go on b--ing and moaning about what a terrible generation we have, and how bad these kids are, let's take a look at what made them quit in the first place. After all, as coaches, we are supposed to be the mature ones in control of our emotions and actions. The kids on the other "aren't done cooking yet." So their allowed to make some mistakes.
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Post by cqmiller on Sept 11, 2007 9:38:23 GMT -6
Hey coach...which school are you at in SLC? I just left there last season.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2007 9:42:21 GMT -6
Like Dan Devine said when the movie Rudy came out, "there's no way that those players actually came into my office and put their jerseys on my desk, because if they had they wouldn't ever have got it back."
Gotta applaud the guy who stands tall for the Team.
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Post by ajreaper on Sept 11, 2007 10:08:59 GMT -6
Amikell- very good post. I've always believed the better things are going on the field for them the harder I can be on them at half time or after the game- when things have gone badly they really need their coaches. You can lose kids, hell you can lose your team if you do not choose your words very carefully in those situations. Hell if they don't execute the scheme who's fault is that? As coaches we are either teaching it or allowing it- if we expect them to be accountable we must be willing to step up and say we share the responsibility for what occurrs on the field.
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mojoben
Sophomore Member
Posts: 149
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Post by mojoben on Sept 11, 2007 13:00:27 GMT -6
I graduated high school in 1997 and things have changed a lot since even then. Coaching now i'm amazed at how the kids act on the team. A lot of them can't take being yelled at even if it is weak talk. We have had a 5+ kids quit already because they couldn't get their way and didn't want the discipline. Yes, we have even had the very over protective mother that has chewed out the coaching staff because we yelled at her son during practice (to be honest we weren't yelling at him as a individual, but as a team as a whole).
We entered the season with a positive approach and didn't want to yell at the kids, but it is hard. It is very sad when a coaching staff has to take that approach because you fear you will lose all your snot nosed little princesses. If I ever acted the way a lot of these kids do, my dad would have killed me.
I think the team is getting better and tougher, but it cost us a few good players. We are better off without them in the long run... they can be put back on the nipple by one of the other sports coaches. With that being said, we have two of our senior football players (we didn't t bring it up to them) going before the school board trying to get it in the student handbook that if you quit a sport, you shouldn't be able to be able to participate in other seasonal sports. One of the kids that quit football has done it for two straight seasons now, even if he is one of the best and biggest athletes in the school. He is also the defending 4A state champ in the 215-pound weight class in Kansas for wrestling. He is a cancer, but the wrestling coach lets him get away with murder.
I'll quit ranting, but it makes me mad seeing how many of these kids act. It ruins it for the good kids on and off the field that have tough skin.
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Post by burtledog on Sept 11, 2007 14:38:37 GMT -6
Actually, the difference I noticed between 87 and 91 was in HS age kids. My mom also noticed this. My brother graduated in 91. Mom said she clearly saw the difference in my peers (Class of 83 and my student teaching class-87) and my brothers. Rob and I were different, but Mom and Dad raised us with the same outlook and were tougher on him as I was rather submissive in comparison. I am a minister, he is a salesman:) I see it as my Dad was a child of the Depression and WW2 on a farm with brothers and brothers in law in the Navy/Pacific. Mom's earliest memories are of her father being away running gas fields during the war, without hour limits. Digging potatoas because even a manager couldn't get enough rationed food. A 17 year olds parents in 87 had the excess of post WW2 with an economic hardship meaning terribly little. Food a plenty, may loose a house and move into something smaller (been there done that), but no real life and death decisions or better yet, the only decision is are you going to work and live or quit and watch your family suffer. Surely there is always an easier choice! The kids are the result of what most of us/our peers have done to them. Even the "best generation" screwed up by giving too much without asking for more from their kids. Just a well thought out idea. Grace Alone, Greg
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Post by burtledog on Sept 11, 2007 15:40:13 GMT -6
The other corresponding factor I didn't mention, is the absence of stay at home moms and the rate of divorce. Mom's and Dad's who have little time and see their children as short term life enhancers (instead of a long term legacy they have responsibility to) you worry more about the image and less about the internal facts. I see this in my own grown step kids. I am not Mormon, and disagree with most of their doctrine, but with the value on family and children they hold stuns me that you guys in the Mountain areas already have a well known psuedo-syndrome to label it. Evangelicals Christians and Mormons share at least the idea of swearing allegiance to things they aren't willing to really suffer for. Greg
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mojoben
Sophomore Member
Posts: 149
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Post by mojoben on Sept 11, 2007 19:31:22 GMT -6
That is big thing that has hampered the school district i'm working in now. We have a very high rate of divorce in the area and also it is a rural school so we have a lot of fathers that work long hours.
A lot of these kids spend a lot of time on there own and don't get the proper attention they need. The parents don't understand when their kids get in trouble in many cases.
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