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Post by coachcalande on Aug 2, 2007 12:48:23 GMT -6
I was offered a PE job and an OC title at a small high school in La. I was told pretty much word for word "roll out the basketball, get your CDL so you can pick up the kids for practices and take them home afterwards"...pay is poor, sounds like getting qualified teachers is difficult. Add to that increased cost of homes due to Katrina and the new construction....eh, ...different world.
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Post by brophy on Aug 2, 2007 13:38:46 GMT -6
Shoulda came down to the bayou, calande...............houses are CHEAP down here.
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Post by darebelcoach on Aug 2, 2007 15:57:57 GMT -6
I guess in the grand scheme of things...it comes down to what kind of teacher you want to be personally. I take as much pride in my teaching as I do my ability to coach, so I put forth a lot of effort into my teaching. I also know that if I don't do a good job teaching, i.e. just roll out a ball, I won't have a job, and thus won't be coaching at my school anymore. I think teaching P.E. is such a hard subject to teach because there are a lot of people hwo go into the profession because they think it is easy, and thus we sometimes get a bad rap..but overall, I know there are a good amount of P.E. teachers who take their job seriously. I must be honest though, I do love wearing shorts and a t-shirt to work every day!!! Good luck, the season is right around the corner!! August 8th, my Rebels start their quest for the playoffs!!!
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Post by thunder17 on Aug 2, 2007 17:35:09 GMT -6
I don't think it is an issue of "does being a rolling out the ball teacher make me a bad football coach"? It is an issue of whether you are teaching 700 or 70. Don't get me wrong, we all favor our boys, but you have to care about the other ones as well. There are plenty of jobs that will allow you to coach, pick one of those.
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Post by thunder17 on Aug 2, 2007 18:33:55 GMT -6
Reading my message above it sounded pretty harsh. I am not trying to point fingers I am just saying that a lot of people went into teaching Phys. Ed. to coach. That's fine, but sooner or later you have take the teaching as serious as the coaching. If it is all about coaching then it is time to take it up a notch.
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Post by coachcalande on Aug 2, 2007 19:04:45 GMT -6
when I was a college student one of my academic advisors said bluntly "The last thing the world needs is another person who goes into teaching just so they can be a coach. The world needs people who want to teach". Coaching is teaching. That really says it all.
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Post by lionhart on Aug 2, 2007 20:25:49 GMT -6
i dont agree with nclb, i did mention that. however, i think there must be minimum standards set for each subject in order to be an instructor. and no, caring about the kids is not enough to be a teacher, sorry. there's a man who hangs outside ouor h.s who talks to the kids, buys the girls flowers, goes to all the athletic functions,etc. hes been doing so for 20 years. hes clearly "slow" and harmless, just loves to be around the kids and be a part of things. but he cares about the kids, so i guess he could teach them? im not buyin it. the state needs to set a standard and those who choose to pursue a CAREER in education (NOT those who get a degree in journalism and then say "oh id just LOVE the summers off, i think ill go be a teacher) need to be evaluated and held to that standard. i have a2 frosh health classes, and last year one of my friedns who teaches algebra covered for me while i was busy for a day or two. a girl who was visiblt shaken came to him and said "what is an ectopic pregnancy?" he told her he had no idea and when i returned, she was not in school for a week. (do the math on this one) she didnt need a teacher to tell her that he didnt know... she needed information so she went to someone who is SUPPOSED to be able to help. in this case, i oculdnt have helped, per say, but i certainly could have explained to her what she was going through. Thats what happens when caring for the kids comnbines with content knowledge. the words "highly qualified" and "proficient" are very abstract, but if there are a set of standards that are enforced by each subject area's supervisors... then people who aren't able to teach subjects wont be doing so. and living in mexico doesnt mean you can teach spanish. its the same with football... its not what YOU KNOW, its WHAT YOU CAN TEACH!
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Post by airraider on Aug 2, 2007 20:31:59 GMT -6
OMG...I knew better than to even open this thread. The ever eternal battle of PE teaching philosophies. Personally I don't get the "Academically driven" PE teachers.....PHYSICAL EDUCATION....key word... PHYSICAL. And you know...I understand the need for PE...but until the PE credit counts towards eligibility, I don't want to hear it. Take attendance, check if they dress or not and don't over estimate your impact on a child's education. I think if you are a PE teacher and you feel like your class is an academic class, then I say you got in the wrong teacher line in college. My views toward academically driven PE teachers is not a positive one. At the first school I taught the PE teacher would assign homework, give quizzes and tests. Which, you know...whatever. However, if Jimmy is spending time studying, researching and doing homework for PE instead of doing his English, Math, Science, Social Studies homework then I do believe the PE teacher needs a reality check, PE is not that important. DC.. batten down the hatches my friend.. you are about to be bludgeoned to death by some of these guys.. and PE doesnt count towards eligibility for yall?? Some of our kids would never get to play if it wasnt for the A they get in athletic PE. |
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Post by airraider on Aug 2, 2007 20:35:02 GMT -6
i dont agree with nclb, i did mention that. however, i think there must be minimum standards set for each subject in order to be an instructor. and no, caring about the kids is not enough to be a teacher, sorry. there's a man who hangs outside ouor h.s who talks to the kids, buys the girls flowers, goes to all the athletic functions,etc. hes been doing so for 20 years. hes clearly "slow" and harmless, just loves to be around the kids and be a part of things. but he cares about the kids, so i guess he could teach them? im not buyin it. the state needs to set a standard and those who choose to pursue a CAREER in education (NOT those who get a degree in journalism and then say "oh id just LOVE the summers off, i think ill go be a teacher) need to be evaluated and held to that standard. i have a2 frosh health classes, and last year one of my friedns who teaches algebra covered for me while i was busy for a day or two. a girl who was visiblt shaken came to him and said "what is an ectopic pregnancy?" he told her he had no idea and when i returned, she was not in school for a week. (do the math on this one) she didnt need a teacher to tell her that he didnt know... she needed information so she went to someone who is SUPPOSED to be able to help. in this case, i oculdnt have helped, per say, but i certainly could have explained to her what she was going through. Thats what happens when caring for the kids comnbines with content knowledge. the words "highly qualified" and "proficient" are very abstract, but if there are a set of standards that are enforced by each subject area's supervisors... then people who aren't able to teach subjects wont be doing so. and living in mexico doesnt mean you can teach spanish. its the same with football... its not what YOU KNOW, its WHAT YOU CAN TEACH! So the fact that he has no idea made it worse on the girl?? Are you qualified to give medical advice?? Then how could have you helped her anymore than her googling the term? Also, I am not sure what perfect world you are striving for, but it doesnt exist.. So by your standards there would be 100 kids per class due to only having teachers who are "highly qualified" being able to teach a given subject. |
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Tampa
Sophomore Member
Posts: 211
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Post by Tampa on Aug 2, 2007 20:36:51 GMT -6
How many COACHES here would be teachers if they could not COACH?
If you said yes, then God bless you, consider yourself a teacher.
For me, coaching comes first. To say I have to step it up a notch or I need to take teaching as serious as coaching is BS. Talk to me after you gain some experience. I happen to be one heck of a teacher, but I am a COACH first!
Maybe I'm old school, but I'm a FOOTBALL COACH who happens to teach Physical Education.
and Steve...save the clichés...besides, most college academic advisors never played ball.
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Post by airraider on Aug 2, 2007 20:48:15 GMT -6
How many COACHES here would be teachers if they could not COACH? If you said yes, then God bless you, consider yourself a teacher. For me, coaching comes first. To say I have to step it up a notch or I need to take teaching as serious as coaching is BS. Talk to me after you gain some experience. I happen to be one heck of a teacher, but I am a COACH first! Maybe I'm old school, but I'm a FOOTBALL COACH who happens to teach Physical Education. and Steve...save the clichés...besides, most college academic advisors never played ball. Amen to that.. I have worked with several guys over the years who were teachers who happened to play football in high school and we needed coaches.. so they paid them a stipend and let them coach.. BIG MISTAKE... Here in Louisiana it is becoming a very big to do with Non-faculty coaches.. they have just upped the amount of non-faculty coaches to 8.. You are allowed 4 CECP coaches.. which are just guys who are not teachers who coach while having a regular job.. and 4 student coaches.. students who are enrolled in an education program working towards certification.. Some of the big time privates around here do not have to hire certified teachers and they hire FOOTBALL coaches and call them "Bible Teachers".. because the state does mandate that all faculty coaches must teach a certain number of hours in the day.. |
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Post by lionhart on Aug 2, 2007 21:03:27 GMT -6
i am not qualified to give medical advice. i DO strive for something better than we have. i know it will never be perfect, but what a sad day when we all stop trying, huh? and if you check my post again you will find that i said "highly qualified" is very abstract. however, having a set of standards in writing and making sure that all content instructors are adhering to those standards is not abstract at all... its quite tangible.
you're missing my point about the inquisitive student. ill clarify..... i work in the inner city. this girl is 14 with close to zero parental support. she misseed her period and thought she was rpegnant then experioenced alot of pain and was told at the lcinic she had an ectopic pregnancy. she left there scared and had NO CLUE what was happening to her. google? you need to have a computer first... which most of my students dont have. so she went to someone who she EXPECTED (and rightly so) to have an answer for her... her health teacher. she didnt need anything medical, she needed information about what was happeining inside her body, which a QUALIFIED health instrcutor could have easily told her. i see it like this... kids see teachers as having answers to their questions. yes, sometimes a kid will come up with a rediculous situational question whcih you cant answer , but you should be able to answer most of them. especially if they are pertinent ot oyur area of certification. if i tried to teach world history and someone asked me a rudimentary question about WWII that i couldnt answer, what odes that tell the kid? that this guy doesnt know what the hell hes doing here!
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Post by airraider on Aug 2, 2007 21:13:21 GMT -6
i am not qualified to give medical advice. i DO strive for something better than we have. i know it will never be perfect, but what a sad day when we all stop trying, huh? and if you check my post again you will find that i said "highly qualified" is very abstract. however, having a set of standards in writing and making sure that all content instructors are adhering to those standards is not abstract at all... its quite tangible. you're missing my point about the inquisitive student. ill clarify..... i work in the inner city. this girl is 14 with close to zero parental support. she misseed her period and thought she was rpegnant then experioenced alot of pain and was told at the lcinic she had an ectopic pregnancy. she left there scared and had NO CLUE what was happening to her. google? you need to have a computer first... which most of my students dont have. so she went to someone who she EXPECTED (and rightly so) to have an answer for her... her health teacher. she didnt need anything medical, she needed information about what was happeining inside her body, which a QUALIFIED health instrcutor could have easily told her. i see it like this... kids see teachers as having answers to their questions. yes, sometimes a kid will come up with a rediculous situational question whcih you cant answer , but you should be able to answer most of them. especially if they are pertinent ot oyur area of certification. if i tried to teach world history and someone asked me a rudimentary question about WWII that i couldnt answer, what odes that tell the kid? that this guy doesnt know what the hell hes doing here! you tell them the truth about you not knowing and you help them find the answer.. You stated that you would be pissed off if your kids had teachers who were not qualified to teach their subject.. well based on what standards?? Just because NCLB says they are not qualified doesnt mean they are not. Im sure there are a whole lot of teachers who have taught a subject for many many years.. but was told they would have to go back to school to become highly qualified.. is that right?? not really.. would you trust one of those people to teach your child even though the government says they are not qualified to do so? |
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Post by wingman on Aug 2, 2007 21:23:12 GMT -6
Shower is pretty funny. No one has showered at our school in PE or after football ( games too ) since about 1980. No one wears jocks either. Swimmers go into a bathroom stall to change from suit to underwear. When I tell them we used to plug up the drains and slide around on the floors in the showers, they look at you like you were crazy.
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Post by airraider on Aug 2, 2007 21:25:10 GMT -6
our showers make great storage..
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Post by thunder17 on Aug 3, 2007 5:44:22 GMT -6
tampa, been teaching and coaching for 15 years so the experience is there. Just saying the kids in the gym deserve more than a basketball. Totally agree with getting the kids active as soon as possible, but also teaching them a variety of activities. Why doesn't anyone roll out a football?
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Post by lionhart on Aug 3, 2007 6:47:07 GMT -6
should a dentist be allowed to perform a kidney transplant? i mean, he's a DOCTOR, isnt he? he went to school to be a dr. and is liscensed.
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Post by coachcalande on Aug 3, 2007 7:00:54 GMT -6
Yknow, when I got into teaching all I wanted to do was teach the "good sports" and yknow, it was all boys in my classes...we did the fun stuff, floor hockey tournaments, flag football, fast pitch "junk ball' whiffle ball, basketball tournaments, 'war ball" - "medic dodgeball" volleyball tournaments where any spike was worth two points,...stuff like that...a few years into it we HAD TO go coed...I absolutely hated it, hated it! All of the aggressive competitive play was removed from the class really. Effort and intensity among the boys dropped sharply (except for a few sociopathic boys who enjoy decking a 98 lb frail girl)- anyhow, we do "fitness circuits" every year, not my favorite unit...but Ill tell ya something, the kids generally dont like it, at least not the big athletic types and certainly not the 8th graders...but the goofy, less athletic, uncoordinated self aware types get to do things THAT ARENT COMPETITIVE yet lead to some improved self image progress, get to try new activities, learn about target heart rates, max heart rate etc. and even become interested in other things than just computers, dungeons and dragons and video games. Know what I mean? Maybe Im mellowing in my old age but I have come to enjoy the coed classes and I think I do a good job with all of the kids. For me the mental shift had to be less about competitive games and more about lifetime fitness activities. Not as fun maybe, but perhaps of more value to the kids in the long run? not sure how many of these kids would be playing varsity volleyball right now if we didnt do such a good job of introducing them to the sport in PE class. Interesting discussion.
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Post by airraider on Aug 3, 2007 9:28:45 GMT -6
should a dentist be allowed to perform a kidney transplant? i mean, he's a DOCTOR, isnt he? he went to school to be a dr. and is liscensed. You are SOOO making this out to be more than it is.. Its not like a math teacher has to bring in only the knowledge he has learned prior to teaching the class.. he is given resources in order to facilitate the learning process. Lets just agree to disagree.. because its very clear that neither is going to change the other's mind. |
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Post by fbdoc on Aug 3, 2007 9:50:58 GMT -6
QUESTION: What do you call the guy who graduates LAST in his class at Medical School?
ANSWER: You call him "Doctor".
This thread started out as a request for ideas for a new PE teacher.
It evolved (devolved?) into should rolling the ball out in PE be ok to should a lazy/lousy PE teacher's performance impact his position as a coach on the football staff to ...
As the posts have grown, I've been very pleased to see that the large majority of the respondents state that rolling out the balls in PE is not acceptable for a professional teacher - trained or not.
Let's keep in mind most of us are teachers so we can coach. BE professional and encourage (demand) that those on your staff do the same.
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Post by bopper235 on Aug 3, 2007 21:58:42 GMT -6
Just wanted to say to all the coaches thanks for the opinions!!
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Post by coachcalande on Aug 4, 2007 3:44:04 GMT -6
I don't have a problem with different activities. I have a problem with tests, quizzes and homework over the dimensions of a field hockey field, or a basketball court. I have a problem with written tests and quizzes over badmitten rules. I'm all in favor of taking the kids out and exercising, playing a variety of sports and doing a variety of activities. and if you all have never heard of such a PE teacher, one who gives written tests and quizzes over stuff like court dimensions or rules...and not general rules mind you...then I apologize and count yourself lucky...I know 3. I hear you, everytime we HAVE TO give a written test the kids say "tests in gym class?" - again, its written into the curriculum as a way to provide a grade ...written tests are about 10% of the total grade. Nobody enjoys that part of pe im sure. I know I dont like to have to grade 300 papers or whatever it is. |
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Post by gunandrun on Aug 4, 2007 6:15:03 GMT -6
Well stated drebelcoach. As a PE teacher -No offense taken airraider. Teachers and coaches are all part of the teaching profession that requires rolemodeling to be effective. Sadly, only a few, or more than a few in your parts Airraider, can give PE teachers a bad name.
Bopper 235, I advise you to check out your curriculum, visit other professionals, network, and avoid reinventing the wheel. PM I have tons of stuff that could help you. The forementioned outline by coach jd is how we do it in at my school in both wellness classes and fitness/conditioning.
We use the daily grade model
CHAMP
Comes prepared (Uniform etc) 1pt
Honor Code- Abides by school honor code 1pt
A- Attitude that is Positive 1 pt
MP- Meaningful Participation 2 pt
Does not come prepared 0 for the day.
Assessments are written and performance based (rubircs)
Best of luck to you all.
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Post by coachcalande on Aug 6, 2007 4:09:05 GMT -6
My personal favorite "hubba hubba hubba ding bat ding, your team plays like a washing machine!"....yep, unsportsmanlike.... and the catcher asking questions like "why is your zipper always down?" just as the pitcher throws a heater...classic.
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