eric58
Junior Member
Me sparring Bruce Lee back in 79'
Posts: 298
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Post by eric58 on Oct 1, 2007 18:45:41 GMT -6
Okay, bare with me on this. Last thursday we had a frosh game and we lost 21-0. We battled hard and had good drives but fumbles killed us. After the game a dad comes up to me and ask's me if I'm the O.C. and I reply "yes". He tells me that I need to to give the ball to his other son the wr. (we have 2 brothers on the team one is a rb the other is a wr) I replied we'd like to but we're limited in what we can do, (meaning we can't pass) and if he had a problem with the playcalling that he should bring it up to the HC. He said he would and if we didn't use both his sons talents that he would pull them and go else where. I again told him to do what he wants to do and if he had a problem to talk to the HC. He then told me "I'll talk to you AFTER"! (Remember the game was already over and we were about to leave.) I asked him if he was threatning me and again he replied "I'll talk to you AFTER"! I said if your threatning me and you strike me then your striking a peace officer. As soon as I said that he got in my face and started pointing his finger in my face telling me that he wasn't threatning me. His older son who is a varsity player was also in my face rambling about his brothers are athletes and I should give them the ball. Then the mom was right behind them yelling to. Remember the last thing I said was Well my dad came out of the restroom and saw 3 people yelling in my face and doing what any dad would do came to his son's aid. My dad came over and said "what's going on, what's the problem"? They asked him "who the {censored} are you old man" "get the {censored} out of here" My dad told them that that was his son they were threatning and that they needed to back off. The older son who plays on varsity charged at my dad but was held back by his sister who was also cursing at my dad. The older varsity player son called me "a piece of {censored}" "I didn't know how to call fu**$&^ plays and that I sucked as an OC. It was hard for me as a son to see them come after my dad and for me not to do anything to help him. Now my dilema is they pulled the varsity player into the office and suspended him I thought for the day. I go to practice today and they told me that they didn't end up suspending him because the parents went to district office and complained. The dad is now saying he said everything and not his son. Should I just quit and still pursue this on the outside or should I stick it out? His 2 sons on the frosh level have accounted for 12 fumbles between the 2 in the last 2 games. If I stick it out and don't play them, then he'll think that I'm punishing them for the incident in which I'm not. They're hurting us big time.
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Post by phantom on Oct 1, 2007 18:53:15 GMT -6
What did the varsity coach have to say about this?
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Post by eickst on Oct 1, 2007 19:05:59 GMT -6
48 hour rule. Put it in. Tell the parents about it. And man, when I played HS ball the parents had NO CHANCE of ever talking to a coach unless it was random screaming from the stands. How do these parents get close enough to you to talk to you like that?
I would definitely talk to the varsity coach as well.
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Post by brophy on Oct 1, 2007 19:10:41 GMT -6
2 sons on the frosh level have accounted for 12 fumbles between the 2 in the last 2 games. They're hurting us big time.
You have a job to run the TEAM, why are these guys playing?
Grade each game performance.....then it is easy to say WHY a kid isn't playing, because the film don't lie.
In respect to their actions (and parents actions), that is for the chain of command to handle (HC, Principal, AD)..........clear violations that disrupt the entire integrity of the PROGRAM.
The PROGRAM (not individual players) is what matters. The PROGRAM is a reflection on the school, its educators,and administration.
....thats all I could think of.....
that being said, it would've been a heckuva lot easier reading that had you used paragraphs and punctuation |
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Post by schultbear74 on Oct 1, 2007 19:26:44 GMT -6
Sounds like the school administration needs to get on top of things. Where were they?
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Post by olinecoach61 on Oct 1, 2007 19:41:07 GMT -6
We have a strict policy that we lay out to parents in our preseason meeting. We will not discuss playing time, # of touches, etc before / after a game or practice. They need to schedule an appointment with the coaching staff. This way we bring the coach involved , the HC and the AD. Gotta watch your back.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 1, 2007 20:01:09 GMT -6
eric--yeah, your first mistake was trying to chat with him in that environment. You should not have said "we would like to but we are limited". LIKE everyone else said, you need to be proactive. Preseason meeting explaing what WILL and WILL NOT be discussed. Absent that, however, You should have said. Sir I want to thank you for coming out and supporting the team, but we don't discuss team matters in the parking lot.
Then you call the H.C and AD that night and tell them the issue.
Sounds like they aren't going to be worth the trouble... all about the ME and not about teh WE.
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Post by ajreaper on Oct 1, 2007 20:37:42 GMT -6
What did the HC say? Did you explain to him how the varsity player a cted toward you? If he did not take your word over that of the kid quit right now.
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Post by wolfden12 on Oct 1, 2007 21:20:57 GMT -6
Thats horrible. Its people like this who make you wonder sometimes whats wrong with the world of sports?
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Post by coachcoyote on Oct 1, 2007 21:49:05 GMT -6
I'm still waiting to hear what the HC and AD had to say. Is the admin involved, or did they find a dark corner to CYA? If a parent talked to one of my coaches that way, I'd demand a meeting with the admin, HC, AD and the Supt. Until that meeting occurred, none of the kids would play. Bench the frosh until they improve, sit the Varsity player until the parents have apologized. If HC won't stand up for you, you're with the wrong guy.
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Post by brophy on Oct 1, 2007 22:03:45 GMT -6
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eric58
Junior Member
Me sparring Bruce Lee back in 79'
Posts: 298
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Post by eric58 on Oct 1, 2007 22:22:27 GMT -6
Coaches, I write more later but I have to go to work. I had the HC immediately inform the A.D. and we tried to get ahold of the Varsity HC but couldn't until the morning. Told them the whole situation even had the principle of the other school witness to the incident. Now I have to go see the principle tommorow when I should have saw him friday when I spoke to the Assistant principal. The parents have to sign a contract at the beginning stating that they cannot hassle coaches. I'm going to get a copy of it tommorow.
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Post by dubber on Oct 2, 2007 1:19:04 GMT -6
Parents are the reason I am leaving the high school level........
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Post by brophy on Oct 2, 2007 6:28:03 GMT -6
I said if your threatning me and you strike me then your striking a peace officer.. just on a side note, do you find it ironic to be a RATM fan AND a cop? I'm jes saying.....also, I hear that line a lot from cops, what do you guys think it means, as in, what are you expecting that line to "do"? |
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Post by coachcalande on Oct 2, 2007 6:28:27 GMT -6
My guess is that the hs player who was cursing and yelling will be off the team and for good reason.
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Post by casec11 on Oct 2, 2007 6:43:22 GMT -6
My guess is that the hs player who was cursing and yelling will be off the team and for good reason. Absolutly, this kid should be suspended from football at the very least |
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Post by wingt74 on Oct 2, 2007 7:07:05 GMT -6
#1 thing you and your Dad need to learn from this situation is safety.
Two things I would like to quote:
Those responses escalate situations. They are essentially challenges
I use to deal with this sort of thing for a living. When someone is clearly angry, you have to give them two options. Example of what would have worked for either your dad or you "You can either calm down and have a rational conversation with me, or I am going to be forced to call 911."
Punches could have been thrown in this situation, you put up a defensive move, accidently elbow a kid in the face...and suddenly, guess what the story is?
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 2, 2007 7:10:40 GMT -6
dubber----wait to you get introduced to boosters
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Post by ajreaper on Oct 2, 2007 7:24:22 GMT -6
LOL, coaches explaining to a cop how to handle an angry individual? I'm fairly certain he identified himself as a police officer so if the idiot in question (and he clearly is an idiot) lays his hands on him he's assaulting a police officer- that's fairly serious. This parent and this kid were clearly in the wrong- their behavior, by any standard you choose to use to evaluate it was uncalled for. If there is any backbone what so ever within the administration of that school the kid is done playing ball and Dad gets a letter clearly stating conduct expected of him (a contract) and if he fails to behave appropriatley he should be banned from attending games- period. There was nothing wrong with the coaches response and there's nothing wrong with refering him to the HC or AD- to suggest this is in any way this coaches fault is silly. People are responsible for their own actions- emotions belong to the individual they are not given to us by others. To say another is responsible for our behavior because of something they said or did is a cop out- plain and simple. Have we gotten to the point as coaches where we now view behavior like that and actually believe someone other then the individual in question is responsible for their own actions?
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Post by brophy on Oct 2, 2007 7:38:34 GMT -6
Personally, I'm with wingt on this, even though it is a rather minute detail to the story.
Kids / Parents were wrong.
WHOSE to say "Later" is a threat, though?
By asking "are you threatening me?" and "you'd be assaulting a peace officer" are going to extremes (IMO). Those steps do NOTHING to diffuse a situation....they are power thrusts. They are essentially saying to an individual, "Hey I can do whatever I want, you have no power here"
Maybe AS AN ON-DUTY OFFICER that works, and 'controls' people........but if you are wearing a coaching polo (or whatever) you are representing the school in that capacity.....LET IT GO. The guy was upset and wanted to talk about it later.
Lesson learned - DIFFUSE FIRST.............set up a time to meet with any angry individual later - don't take it personal, they are just upset, because football is a game of emotions. Don't provoke things to another level.
I have worked with cops on staff before (one a Lt, one a captain, and one a SWAT trainer), and they never go to the line of "hey, I'm a cop......" to try to power thrust on folks. I worked with one who was a 'new' officer (21) and he would always try the "I know the mayor...I'll call him up right now" and "If you touch me, you're assaulting a city official" -
The kid(s) would've gotten benched based on their performance and if the old man had beef, he would've followed up with a meeting...............case closed.
Now, by RESPONDING to the parent with a challenge, you've laid down a gauntlet (him or me) to challenge the parents, the school board, the principal, the kids, the coaches.....
Rather than letting sleeping dogs lay, and only have to deal with a parent who needs to apologize for being rude.
Now, maybe I'm in left field and am wrong.....I'm just stating an opinion, however misguided it might be.
PS - it is "threatened", btw argh
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Post by wingt74 on Oct 2, 2007 8:08:02 GMT -6
LOL, coaches explaining to a cop how to handle an angry individual? I'm fairly certain he identified himself as a police officer so if the idiot in question (and he clearly is an idiot) lays his hands on him he's assaulting a police officer- that's fairly serious. This parent and this kid were clearly in the wrong- their behavior, by any standard you choose to use to evaluate it was uncalled for. If there is any backbone what so ever within the administration of that school the kid is done playing ball and Dad gets a letter clearly stating conduct expected of him (a contract) and if he fails to behave appropriatley he should be banned from attending games- period. There was nothing wrong with the coaches response and there's nothing wrong with refering him to the HC or AD- to suggest this is in any way this coaches fault is silly. People are responsible for their own actions- emotions belong to the individual they are not given to us by others. To say another is responsible for our behavior because of something they said or did is a cop out- plain and simple. Have we gotten to the point as coaches where we now view behavior like that and actually believe someone other then the individual in question is responsible for their own actions? Never said the coach is at fault. But, if someone punches you in the face, and goes to jail. Fine they are in jail...but you still got punched in the face. 100% their fault, not yours...but you still have a black eye and a loose tooth. All I'm saying is, when other people are being irriational and putting you in a potentially violent situation, there are verbal descalation techniques you can use to give your self the best chance of walking away from the incident unharmed. |
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Post by threeback on Oct 2, 2007 8:29:12 GMT -6
I agree with Brophy and Wingt- the best thing to do in this situation is to diffuse the situation. In my opinion, you escalated the situation by "challenging" the person- even though you probably didn't think so at the time.
You can be two things in situations like this- a diffuser or an escalator. When people act like those people did, the best scenario you could have followed was to diffuse the situation, and remove yourself from the situation- although it is often times hard to do (human pride is one of our greatest strengths AND weakenesses). People that look for a confrontation will often times make one if none exists-given the right circumstances. In my opinion, you should have diffused the situation and removed yourself from it. It is hard to argue with air.
When all else fails- kick his arse! LOL
BTW- It's comforting to know that the team that I coach for isn't the only one that has "stupid" coaches that "don't know how to use talent".- LOL
-For those of ya'll that offered advice when we cut those two brothers, you'll be glad to know that we are 2-0 since then. This past Friday, we had 571 yards rushing. I called four pass plays- 2 were complete- 1 for a TD. The other two, the QB broke containment on and ran for a TD and put us on the 4 on the other one. AND NEVER ONCE DID HE COMPLAIN THAT WE DIDN'T THROW THE BALL ENOUGH! Kids on the team have bonded like never before, and it really is a special feeling to be associated with these kids.
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Post by ajreaper on Oct 2, 2007 9:59:44 GMT -6
I've coached with police officers and know several fairly well and a cop is a cop at all times- even when he is not in uniform. I do not know about the laws in the state this occurred but threats made against teachers and coaches in my state are taken very seriously and if that individual was making a threat that coach would be quickly changing hats and going into cop mode and not coach mode. If that guy is just upset because Jr. didn't get enough touches or he's upset over a loss that's one thing if he wants to make threats that's another thing altogether. I don't know many cops who'd just walk away from someone who was perhaps violating the law. LOL, and once he identified himself as a police officer the idiot escalated the confrontation- in my mind being an idiot comes with a price if you don't make them pay the price you'll just keep dealing with the idiots.
I know from experience if a staff member approaches an unruly fan and ask them to control themselves they often get abuse heaped upon them have the coach who's also a cop do it and watch the idiots change their attitude as soon as they know there dealing with a cop and not a coach.
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Post by brophy on Oct 2, 2007 10:05:05 GMT -6
ajreaper.........shut up, I am a black belt in karate and my hands are licensed weapons.
does that escalate or diffuse ?
I'm jes sayin'.....
The guy approaching you in the PARKING LOT is one thing,
The guy saying he'll talk about it later after a game on the field, is another......... 
Like my ex-wife, the situation went from 0-Krazy in 2.3 seconds and it didn't need to.
PS - being an OFFENSIVE coordinator / play-caller is a very tough position ---- EVERYONE wants to kill that guy, even if you win. You'd better have a thick skin
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Post by dubber on Oct 2, 2007 11:17:58 GMT -6
dubber----wait to you get introduced to boosters That's the beauty of coaching at a private D III school-------boosters are not the all-powerful forces they are at Alabama and the likes....... ........these kid's (through their parents, scholarships, financial aid, etc.) are shelling out $27,000+ a year------that's where the team gets the money......... still, I'd rather deal with boosters (as if I'd ever coach at Alabama :  , at least their main concern is winning, and not that little timmy gets enough PT Plus, a booster guy isn't going to approach me at my most volatile time: right after a game....... That's the real problem, getting confronted after a game------you just spent 3 hours going through extreme peaks and valleys of emotion..............you are not yourself.............. Honestly, I feel more exhausted after coaching a game than I ever did playing one (though I don't hurt as badly) |
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 2, 2007 11:27:09 GMT -6
DIII private school???---Wait to you meet debt collectors   |
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Post by ajreaper on Oct 2, 2007 11:35:26 GMT -6
LOL, well geeze Brophy if I'm a cop and a guy is robbing an old lady if I intervene am I escalating the situation or diffusing it- what happens if it pisses him off and he takes a swing at me I guess that's my fault? He's a cop first and a coach second- he is not use to simply letting things go because that's the easist way out of a situation- cops address things the rest of us let go. If he honestly believed it was a threat as a cop he's going to address that while you may not as a coach- even one with a black belt  He's thinking like a cop- because he is. I guess they don't teach that in karate school. |
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eric58
Junior Member
Me sparring Bruce Lee back in 79'
Posts: 298
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Post by eric58 on Oct 2, 2007 12:54:02 GMT -6
Just to clarify I'm a probation counselor. Well I talked to the principle, A.D. and the assistant superintendent this morning. They are not going to back me. What they want to do is have me sit down and talk with the parents. Which I'm not. The kid got to play in last weeks game and no punishment will be handed down to him. So he and the family win. Even with the parents signing the contract I asked are we not going to hold them accountable and they said "well if it happens next time, then we will". I don't want to coach now. That just tell players hey you can yell at a coach and go after his family and get away with it.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 2, 2007 13:06:06 GMT -6
eric---sigh... well unfortunately, in the public school system, you are a servant to the people. If you were a teacher, I would say to contact a union rep as soon as you could.
Do you work for the school system? If not, then I say HOORAY..because now, you only have your "coaching" position at risk, and you can try to retaliate (legal measures, contact an attorney etc. ) about the threats. Yes, you will lose your coaching spot most likely, but truth be told, I probably wouldn't want to coach their anymore either. (Chances are they aren't a very successful program....usually the spinelessness of of administrators leads to this)
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Post by ajreaper on Oct 2, 2007 13:19:51 GMT -6
That's to bad but given the circumstances the best thing to do is not coach there. It's a sad when those in a position to say explicitly "this type of behavior will not be tolerated" cower and do nothing. I'd be willing to bet "the next time" never comes with anyone, under any circumstances with these people.
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, at least their main concern is winning, and not that little timmy gets enough PT
