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Post by pantherpride91 on Dec 14, 2007 9:36:49 GMT -6
I was wondering how many of you coachs out there do not use stretching or sprints for your team. Was reading an article when Mumme and those guys were at UK and Chris Hatcher was saying they do not use stretching or sprints in a way to keep football fun. Also, I watched DVD of a clinic speech by the USC S&C coach and was saying the same things. They do not do sprints or conditioning running. He was saying how the high tempo practices keep their keys in shape.
Does anyone else subscribe to this concept? I could see how keeping a high intensity practice at all times would lend itself to not needing to run much. I do not know about the stretching part, I would think you needed some type of form running slow stretch at the start of practice, but maybe not.
I know how many of the kids loathe the sprint running at the end of practice and how stretching before practice can turn into more a social event than anything getting done.
Also, how do you handle pre-game stuff? Still no stretching?
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jburch
Freshmen Member
Posts: 84
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Post by jburch on Dec 14, 2007 9:45:49 GMT -6
We are going to some air raid (Mumme/Franklin) stuff. I have saw these tapes and we are doing alot of catching and sprinting to score. I'm thinking it might work. The Franklin practice organization is very interesting. I also would like to hear more from guys that do this
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Post by minterj on Dec 14, 2007 9:51:19 GMT -6
St. John's in Minnesota has a very interesting philosophy regarding this.
We've also found that if kids know they are going to run at the end of practice they will "save up" some energy during practice. We now condition only at the beginning of practice and that is only on Wednesday's when we do grade checks.
Otherwise, practice is conditioning and I never felt like we couldn't finish a game.
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Post by superpower on Dec 14, 2007 9:51:45 GMT -6
We do a dynamic warm-up (high knees, crossovers, lunges, etc.) at the beginning of practice. We do a light stretch at the end of the day in two-a-days, but after two-a-days we don't stretch. We do some sprinting, but we also subscribe to the high tempo practices so we don't feel the need to do much sprinting at the end of practice.
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Post by superpower on Dec 14, 2007 9:52:55 GMT -6
By the way, we have very few problems with pulled muscles.
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Post by dhooper on Dec 14, 2007 10:04:18 GMT -6
I have also been thinking a lot about stretching, it takes to much time out of a practice. Do any of you coaches have any studies done on not stretching? I need something so when parents come down on me about he got hurt because you don't stretch I have something to back me up.
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Post by wingt74 on Dec 14, 2007 10:11:54 GMT -6
No stretching here. waste of time. I love seeing my opponents before games doing jumping jacks. Looks like a bunch of fish dumped on the beach.
We get into 5 lines and do dynamic stretching. Kids get warmed up and ready to go. No pulled muscles in three seasons now.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Dec 14, 2007 10:12:30 GMT -6
We are almost exactly like what superpower described. We do sprints before our last period of practice (either goal-line O or D, 2 min. O or D). It is kind of our "gut it out" time where we want to combat fatigue and manufacture intensity. Our sprint work tapers off... and by the end of the regular season we do very little. We do almost none during playoffs.
Also, I'll agree with superpower...muscle pulls are much more infrequent since we went to this format.
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Post by minterj on Dec 14, 2007 10:53:33 GMT -6
Regarding stretching, we focused a lot on hip flexibility during our summer strength and conditioning program. Then continued this program at the end of practice during two-days.
Once regular season started we were almost fully dynamic including game time.
Not only did we not have issues with pulled muscles, we didn't have injury problems period. Only games missed were due to concussions or kids that didn' lift/stretch enough during the summer.
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Post by pantherpride91 on Dec 14, 2007 10:58:53 GMT -6
How many focus more on stretching in the offseason? Make it a core part of their offseason winter/summer workouts
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jburch
Freshmen Member
Posts: 84
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Post by jburch on Dec 14, 2007 11:08:05 GMT -6
Dynamic warm ups? I have seen one team do this. I like the idea. Can you describe this period (explain what drills, intensity, distance, etc.) thanks! I hate to watch my kids lay around and waste 10-15 minutes everyday!!!
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Post by coachvann on Dec 14, 2007 11:16:26 GMT -6
We are dynamic warm up team...We do stretches at the end of our off-season workouts and summer workouts but that is it. As for conditioning we hit 'em hard durning the summer workouts. If our kids look great during the games we will back off. If we are running out of gas in the 4th quarter we will add conditioning to the end of practice on Mondays and Tuesdays.
As for pulled muscles...the team has had zero since we started dynamic warm-up. Parisi has a great video on dynamic warm up.
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Post by wingt74 on Dec 14, 2007 11:16:55 GMT -6
Dynamic stretching is a lot of this stuff.
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Post by minterj on Dec 14, 2007 11:17:18 GMT -6
Talk to other coaches in your school. I would try and get a consistent program.
We did a few walking lunge variations (lunge, side lunge, pull knee to chest and lunge, lunge with torso twist, etc..) followed by carioca, high skips, shuffles, etc... Goal is to get loose, but we also continued to focus on our hip flexibility (lunges)
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Post by coachbw on Dec 14, 2007 12:10:18 GMT -6
We went to a clinic last year and had our staff and kids totally buy into the no stretching, no sprinting idea. We will start practice with a drill that can be run half speed and then eventually get quicker as a warmup. A lot of the time, this will be position footwork drills, but it may be team on air, or a skelly route read period or something of that nature as well. We didn't have a pulled muscle at all this year which we were suprised by.
A couple of notes for those considering not stretching. First, you may want to find another structured activity/breakdown to begin practice so that their is a clear start. Second, for liabiility reasons, we did find time (either in the hall after meetings, at the end of team session, etc.) every day to do neck isos.
We did sprints 3 times this year, each was as a punishment at the beginning of practice. We had very high tempo practices and were getting our kids reps for and hour and a half straight. We constantly checked in with them during the year and they all felt they were in good enough shape in the 4th quarter (this coming from kids who the year before were asking for more conditioning).
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Post by spencerxi on Dec 14, 2007 12:28:35 GMT -6
static stretching for flexibility can decrease performance of muscles up to 25%. Therefor staic stretching is bad before a game/practice is bad. Dynamic warm ups are the only way to go imo..
AGain st Johns is another great example of how this can work for your program!
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jw8
Sophomore Member
Posts: 154
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Post by jw8 on Dec 14, 2007 12:43:18 GMT -6
One day I was watching Basketball practice and noticed that they never lined up and did stretches and many of the same kids I had just had in Football. Got me thinking. Then we went to the Air Raid type offense and read how they organized practice. We went to the TT Settle and Noose type start to every practice and did not do any stretching or sprint training. We used our offensive practice time with our different tempos of playcalling as our conditioning. The route running and skills the WR types do is a great workout. We found that our kids were very excited about how the practices went and "enjoyed" working more. Kids will go hard if they know that they are getting the ball. We will not be going back. Plus you are working on skills during that time. Maximize practice time and get them into playing shape. If they like running we tell them to go out for CC....lol
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Post by wingt74 on Dec 14, 2007 12:44:59 GMT -6
static stretching for flexibility can decrease performance of muscles up to 25%. Therefor staic stretching is bad before a game/practice is bad. Dynamic warm ups are the only way to go imo.. AGain st Johns is another great example of how this can work for your program! Do you have proof of that statistic? Not saying I disagree...I just want to prove to the coach's at all levels where I coach why Dynamic stretching is the way to go. |
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Post by airman on Dec 14, 2007 13:33:21 GMT -6
I like dynamic warm ups and I believe in conditioning before the start of practice. some will say this tires players out and they are right. I want tired players. see you will be tired in the game and you need to learn how to fight through being tired, especially if you play defense. I also believe in a warp speed no huddle appraoch so you need to be in shape.
just ask boxers, ufc fighters and wrestlers, you need a high leve of conditioning to win. I have seen average wrestlers better more skilled opponents because they conditioned themselves.
one also has to deal with the level we are at. most high schools do not have the conditioning programs in the off season which big time colleges do. not to hard to motivate a player to get out of bed at 6 am to do agility, weight training adn conditioning in the off season if you can take away their scholarship. in the nfl they pay the athletes to work out.
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Post by biggroff on Dec 14, 2007 13:55:48 GMT -6
Wwe have not stretched of does sprints for 3 years. Besides the dynomic warm-up that most have talked about befroe practice we also do the following....
1) Interval sprinting in the spring and summer. We will come into shape come two-a-days.
2) The weight program is centered around hip flexibility. Olympic style deep sauats, overhead deep squats, hurdle work, kettel bell work. Everything we do centers around hip and core strentgh and felxibility.
Interesting side note...since we have doen this we have NOT had a single significant knee or back injury on Varsity in the past 3 years (Knock on wood)
I would argue that sprints after practice will make you slower as a team. If a kid is tired after a full practice and you make him do 20 40 yard sprints, I guarentee you 19 of them will look like crap and thus that kid will be ingraining bad srpint habbits.
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Post by k on Dec 14, 2007 15:12:18 GMT -6
I do have to say that I'm pretty shocked that so many people here are advocating no conditioning. We conditioned very heavily (on a normal day we'd see 20 100s or 40 40s or so) and I know that it helped me a ton back in the day...
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Dec 14, 2007 15:19:25 GMT -6
I do have to say that I'm pretty shocked that so many people here are advocating no conditioning. We conditioned very heavily (on a normal day we'd see 20 100s or 40 40s or so) and I know that it helped me a ton back in the day...
I'm not sure many are saying "no conditioning". A lot of guys seem to be advocating conditioning for football by playing football.
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Post by minterj on Dec 14, 2007 15:34:08 GMT -6
Exactly Bluto.
How do you find the time in practice to spend running 40 40's???
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Post by davecisar on Dec 14, 2007 17:44:16 GMT -6
Youth Football coach.
No Stretching, dynamic warm ups, no sprints.
Have not had a problem with endurance or vs teams that spend 1/3 of their practices on conditioning.
Very high intensity level during practice is all that was needed for us.
Was told by a very successfull HS coach, "Coaches that dont know how to practice just condition and scrimmage all day"
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 14, 2007 18:13:18 GMT -6
QUESTION....do any of you static stretch AFTER practice?
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bigcroz
Junior Member
Go STAGS!!
Posts: 356
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Post by bigcroz on Dec 14, 2007 18:54:36 GMT -6
we do a dynamic warm up for practice and game then a short 5 min static stretch at end of practice and after games. No pulled muscles in the 3 years we have been doing it this way. Kids also report that stretching after the game has reduced the soreness they have when they report Sat morning for film and lifting.
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Post by blackfly73 on Dec 14, 2007 22:44:21 GMT -6
A couple ideas & thoughts:
1) Why not run a stretch as part of your INDY period?
I've often thought that you could do some quick stretches related to the positions and dynamic warm-ups related to the players position skills.
2) Since when do you really run 40's in a football game? Why not again do a no-huddle period, or pick up the tempo of all practice periods?
To me it comes down to focussing on stuff that directly determines the outcome of the game - and running 40's ain't in that list.
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Post by k on Dec 15, 2007 0:07:34 GMT -6
How do you find the time in practice to spend running 40 40's??? When the sun goes down you can't throw anymore and seeing who to block is even difficult. Running however is easy. =) I'd say that spending 15-20 minutes doing hard conditioning is probably better spent time than anything else. Heck when your guys are going both ways into the fourth quarter that conditioning is as important as anything IMO. |
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zwaps
Freshmen Member
Posts: 29 
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Post by zwaps on Dec 15, 2007 7:33:36 GMT -6
I have also been thinking a lot about stretching, it takes to much time out of a practice. Do any of you coaches have any studies done on not stretching? I need something so when parents come down on me about he got hurt because you don't stretch I have something to back me up. There is no scientific reason or evidence that non-dynamic stretching does anything positive. In fact, some scientists believe it may be counterproductive. We do dynamic stretching and also advocate stretching outside of the season in a special way that carries a long term effect on flexibility. However, it is much like a workout and takes up to 45 minutes, so it's not during practice time or even on practice days. |
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Post by touchdowng on Dec 15, 2007 12:06:31 GMT -6
We stretch for two reasons (lasts a total of 5 minutes). To get our scout teams set up (name callouts) and to get the kids dialed in that practice is starting and school is OVER. Stretching is overstating the actual activity we do for these 5 minutes. It's more of a loosening up period. We do our real stretching (to improve flexibility and neck strengthening) after practice.
We sprint just to keep our kids working on that team pride thing. We expect our kids to be in shape (set up the offseason and preseason to accomplish this) and only do our end of practice sprints to build a little more unity and discipline. We always ask the kids, "how many 40's, or 100's, or whatever are we doing?"
They always know the answer is "ONE"
If it is perfect (and we explain perfect) - they're done.
If not, we go through the same sequence again.
95% of our sprinting is within our drills and the fact that we (coaches) freak out if a kid is loafing. Uptempo is just like breathing at our practices. If you stop, we will probably will run a lot of 40's or 100's to get to that perfect one. Kids understand the relationship and usually end up running 1-3 sprints to end practice.
We like this because it rewards them when they are flying around.
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