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Post by gschwender on Feb 27, 2008 7:29:11 GMT -6
"That is a parents job."
How many of your parents do their jobs? I know that 85% of mine live with one parent or their grandmother. The parents do not do their jobs as they did in the past with us. If athletics was ONLY about wins/losses then it would not be in our schools. We are the next closest thing to a parent that most kids have. I just feel that if a coach does not teach charecter in their program they are doing the kid a disservice. I agree with your list they have to do the things required by the program but charecter should be taught through football if even with teachable moments as the season progresses. To just put it on the parents is not fair to the kids b/c most of them do not have good parents to begin with. If my kids' parents will not step up and do the job then I will and twenty years down the road that kid will remember me and what i did for him and that is why I coach. It is about teaching life through football. If you teach charecter through football the wins/losses will take care of themselves. Good coaches are good teachers and if you only teach win win win all the time without all of the things it takes to win then...
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Post by gschwender on Feb 27, 2008 7:32:56 GMT -6
kids do not care what you know until they know that you care
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mce86
Junior Member
Posts: 281
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Post by mce86 on Feb 27, 2008 8:03:18 GMT -6
It hasn't happend... But if it did... I'd do what trainers do with killer whales... I'd end the training session and send the whale to its cave, until the whale is ready to be taught. Recognizing I would be dealing with struggling organizations (read as bad football teams), and having a MBA, I quickly married football to corporate culture, and how to change said culture to a winning culture. One particular book, "Whale Done", equated bad businesses to the training of killer whales... which is very synonymous to coaching teenagers. The book detailed how you get a killer whale to jump through a flaming hoop. I thought that was great, considering i had no idea how you get a killer whale to jump through a flaming hoop... and my killer whale (bad football team) won't jump through any hoops also. The key to getting a killer whale to jump through a flaming hoop is simple... meet the killer whales most pressing need, and it will do everything you ask... however, make sure you ask of the killer whale, real simple tasks, before asking to jump through the flaming hoop... and when the whale does that simple task, meet his most basic need immediately, and the basic need for a killer whale is food... for a teenager... attention... love... protection. So, what trainers of killer whales do, is put a line under the water... and everytime the killer whale swims over the line, congratulate, celebrate and feed the whale immediately. To bring it home with our football team... first and foremost, the coaching staff and myself go on a Whale Done crusade... catching, rewarding, and congratulating our players on the most minute of sincereties... "Eric... I saw you shared your water with your teammate... whale done!" While creating relationships with our players... we are assessing their most primal needs... some may be looking for a male role model... some looking for a disciplinarian... others a friend... some a confident, and many a father figure.... so we prepare to be all of these things for many different players, fully recognizing that certain players will only trust certain coaches. Once we ascertain whose ears we have, we create huddle groups, and communicate from such. We must catch our players doing Whale... so we can say whale done... we must set up the line under the water... give our bad kids real easy opportunities to be recognized as good kids, and tell them whale done when they do it, so they know we are paying attention. Some bad behavior, we have to address, but not necessarily punish, killer whales know how to react when attacked... First and foremost we must make sure our kids know their well being is our first priority. In short... if the bad kid told me f-you... and we were in an environment of bad language, in which emotions haven't been taught how to be addressed properly... I'd send the kid home. The next day, we'd talk about the interaction... If I haven't created an environment where I can catch this bad kid doing whale, but only created an environment of flaming hoops without teaching the kids first how to cross the line under the water.... and then punish him for not jumping through the flaming hoop... even if its only flaming in his mind... then shame on me for being a poor trainer and accepting a job with killer whales involved... and f-me... I know there are certain social discourses we should be able to expect from every individual... but again... if I don't know the background of the kid... shame on me, for messing the with killer whale in the first place. I havent read the responses yet, but that was awesome! I totally can relate and feel what you are saying here, and Im ready to go get that book! That was an excellent analogy to the culture of kids we have at our school...where they havent learned the appropriate way to handle certain situations!!! Im going to print that out and refer to it as I get frustrated!!! Whale done!
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Post by gschwender on Feb 27, 2008 8:05:01 GMT -6
i guess we will have to agree to disagree hater--but I have done it, it has worked for me and i'm not going to stop period
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Post by buchananm on Feb 27, 2008 8:13:54 GMT -6
Schools would continue to exist without the presence of football, however, football would not exist without the presence of schools. School is about education, learning, growing and preparing kids to be productive people when they leave and football is one of many facets of the education process. Many football players do not get proper character building from their coaches and end up being rich thugs who can play a game at a high level. Society ends up paying for their bad choices because of the lack of character.
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Post by gschwender on Feb 27, 2008 8:25:04 GMT -6
agreed. When you teach win win win all of the time you get a bunch of guys who do anything to win regardless of whether or not it is hurting anyone (ie steroids and baseball). When you teach the win at ALL costs--you get a bunch of Michael Vicks--maybe someone who could have used a little charecter ed.
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Post by coachweav88 on Feb 27, 2008 8:25:23 GMT -6
Khalfie,
I see where you are coming from now. And I do agree reward is more powerful than punishment. Basic behavioral psychology. Rewards teach someone what to do. Punishments teach people what not to do. The more the person desires the reward, the more powerful the reinforcement is. If you only punish, then all you teach an athlete is what not to do. You never really teach him what to do. There is a time to punish, the best punishment is taking something positive away (sending a kid home from practice,) rather than adding something unpleasant (updowns, running, etc.)
B.F. Skinner also noted in his novel Walden II that reinforcement is also more powerful because people believe they have a choice. When they have a choice, they are less likely to rebel.
I'm with you now that I understand your position a little better.
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Post by gschwender on Feb 27, 2008 8:32:08 GMT -6
It is like telling a kid in a game "do not drop the ball" and when the pass comes to him what does he do? He drops the ball. He does this because the coach said this and that is what the kid is thinking about--not dropping the ball--when he should be thinking "catch the ball" --sounds retarded but it works more times than not
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Post by coachweav88 on Feb 27, 2008 8:48:26 GMT -6
"A teacher has two jobs; fill young minds with knowledge, yes, but more important, give those young minds a compass so that the knowledge doesn't go to waste."
Principal Jacobs in Mr. Holland's Opus
I feel the same can be said about the coaching profession
I believe Hall of Fame Basketball coach John Thompson Jr. stated that he considered himself an educator.
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Post by khalfie on Feb 27, 2008 8:59:40 GMT -6
I like what I'm reading... And I think its already been said, but football doesn't develop character... it reveals it... And I think what I'm also reading, is that some coaches don't like what's being revealed. Kid tells a coach f-you... that's football revealing character, now the important question is... what does the coach do about it! Not what the HC does about it, or the position coach, but the coach that was told f-you? My major issue, is that many times I hear of coaches reacting as many have proposed... punish him... teach him a lesson... he'll never play for me, til he does exactly as i tell him... No doubt about it, we coaches have control issues, who else would volunteer to make 50+ teenagers do as we say? But the point is, there are extenuating circumstances with all of our players, and if we aren't willing to delve into their lives, create substantial relationships with each and everyone of our kids... this character discussion is nothing more than a "red herring". BD or not... white or black... low income or well to do... kids want attention, and they will get it one way or another. The essence of coaching is serving your players, meeting their needs, so that they can fulfill your expectations... the kid acting an a$$ is reaching out... and unfortunately his environment has prepared him to reach out in an appropriate manner. You can do what the rest of society already does... punish him... you can do what the kid has come to expect... be punished... or you can affect that kids life, give him a little something different, and hopefully make an impact in an obviously distressed area. All this talk about the HC's philosophy on winning at all cost, has nothing to do with you and your ability to engender relationships of importance. All this talk about wanting to quit because of philosophical differences, sounds to me like a cop out... its just too hard to reach those kids... And if that's the case, cool... not every coach can reach every kid... every coach should try... especially before doing what everyone else does, engender a dislike, formulate a systematic ritualistic punishment/fight with the kid until he quits or does something really stupid. A coaches job is to model, develop and promote... and this need to punish... thats a personal issue. At some point or time, coach, LIFE is going to get real hard for that kid. Somebody wont care if he has a shoulder to cry. Wont care if he has enough love at home. THE REAL WORLD DOESNT CARE. The kids respect and behavior issues exsist because he has NEVER been PUNISHED. NEVER. He has ran his house since he got out of the womb. It is far better that he gets run/thrown off a hs team than get to college where I GUARANTEE you, they wont tolerate what was accepted in HS and at home. I know where you are coming from... but what makes you think LIFE isn't real hard for this kid RIGHT NOW? What makes you think someone cares if he's loved at home RIGHT NOW? I don't know what world you live in... or where the majority of your kids come from... but there are areas, in which the things you are taking for granted, are the exception to the rule... and kids aren't being PUNISHED, but more so are being abused. Kids are running the house, because... no one else is running the house! Go to college? No one's going to college, unless a real man of influence steps into his life... college isn't a given for the majority of society... how can you even think those things are givens?
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Post by khalfie on Feb 27, 2008 9:23:22 GMT -6
Winning is all that matters and I dont care what it is. That kids soul is going to be WON or LOST. You can look yourself in the mirror and like what you see?(win) or hate what you see?(loss) Do you like your profession? (win) or hate it(loss) ARe your children what they should be in your eyes? Yes? (win) NO? (loss) vice versa? wife love you and sincerely? and only you know the answer yes(win) No(loss) EVERYTHING you do is winning or losing. as for the scoreboard on friday night? 90 pct I bet that coach on Fri night would rather be doing something else. You think its coincidence that their are so many goliaths that play like jane? THEY DONT WANT TO BE THEIR! why the do it? I dont know. Coach... you are being disingenious... If winning is all that matters... then why are you kicking the 4.2 40 running... super moves, super strong kid off the team? Character be damned... he's playing if winning is all that matters? Huh? More so... if winning is all that matters, then you should be running a program that facilitates winning. I've only been coaching 10 years... but the one thing I know about winning... is that if I create young men of character... WINNING will take care of itself. If I can get young men to internalize the rudiments of manhood... being accountable and responsible... WINNING will take care of itself... You can't hold someone accountable and responsible for something they don't know... so first you must teach it... and once the two of you come to an understanding that the required information is known, then and only then, can you hold them accountable and responsible. You want your team to hit the weights at 6:00am before school? That's a flaming hoop... will your killer whale jump through it? I doubt it... so what do you do? Kick the best kid off your team because he's not committed? I thought Winning was all that mattered? I want to win... so I work to get that kid committed. But before I ask him to be committed, I first make sure he understands what committment means... I make sure, I get him committed to small things... such as addressing the coaches as coach or sir... making sure he and one other teammate are in constant contact... addressing his grade situation... not bettering... just recognizing where it currently stands. I got problems with your conversation Liberalhater, because you are not consistent.... you remind me of my high school coach, which is the main reason I became a coach... he didn't care about the kids... really didn't care about the x's and o's, but all he talked about was winning... A coaches job is to model, promote, and develop... to do anything else, IMHO, is to be irrelevant.
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Post by gschwender on Feb 27, 2008 9:30:06 GMT -6
nice post khalfie!!
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Post by khalfie on Feb 27, 2008 9:31:42 GMT -6
This nuts! gschwender, You are not hired to build character or teach life lessons to your kids. That is a parents job. here character as I see it from my coaching perspective: IS FOOTBALL IMPORTANT TO YOU? it is to me. IF IT IS TO YOU? YOu will go to class you will do the assignments. You will be on time for practice and team functions. You will be a listener You will do what you are told. You will give 110 pct. all times You will not cause problems at home You will not put yourself first in any situation with or away from the team. Again... if you really want to win... You'll go find some kids, who football isn't important too... basketball stud... track stud... bully in the hallways... and give them something more important to believe in... and because they believe in you... football will become important to them. Football is the quintessential analogy to life... to be successful, you have to work your butt off... prepare continuously... and still, you don't always win... it has highs and low, bumps and bruises, you might not get to play the position you want... or play at all... but the game goes on! How does a child deal with that... learn to deal with life... by being taught the values of being a man. Accountability, Responsibility... as a coach, these kids are my responsibility... I have accepted the charge of making them better men... not players... but men... if I succeed... we'll win... if I fail, society will have another group of boys, poorly matured into manhood, to have to coddle, punish, and pay for. I like your rules... but who's going to follow them, if they don't believe in you or the game? I know there are many schools with legacies and traditions that can put up those rules, and have 9th graders who come in already knowing them, and ready to obey... But for every one of those schools, there are a 100 more, struggling to get enough kids to have a team... stadiums aren't full, football isn't making any money, its the biggest expenditure in the budget. Sometimes, when a bunch of people tell you are wrong... you just might be wrong.
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Post by brophy on Feb 27, 2008 9:33:23 GMT -6
Not to be a smartass, but are any of you guys actually reading these posts?
the author of the thread, or liberhaters.....
the responses would tell me folks are just responding to the title.
Secondly, do any of you actually think someone is going to get on here and say "I will win by any means necessary!" (if you check, that isn't what liberhater wrote)?
So if all we are going to do is agree with this 'the children are our future" rhetoric and not address the issue the author presented, what is the point?
He is returning to the profession, but feels THE GUY HE WILL BE WORKING FOR, may be misguided in the message he sends to the kids though the direction of the program. The author doesn't need to re-affirm his belief that character-building is important (maybe I read that wrong).
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Post by dhooper on Feb 27, 2008 10:05:17 GMT -6
I was a assistant at a school where one of the star football players told me F---you in class. It went on in the hall way also. We had are homecoming game the next day. The head coach decided to let him play any way. I almost quit that night but I use the 24 hr. rule and decided the kids needed me and I stay. I took another head job as soon as the season ended. The next season that kid was the leading rusher in the state, and he got caught doing things he shouldn't of been doing and they gave him a game suspension and he then quit. Don't figure. Discipline isn't what you do to someone its what you do for someone. Kids need it, sometime they don't receive it at home. Yes of course love them up also.
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mce86
Junior Member
Posts: 281
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Post by mce86 on Feb 27, 2008 12:16:26 GMT -6
Brophy, you are half right...I was wondering is character important? maybe my title lead to all the answers of only that question. The other part was should I stay in a situation, where talent is first and character is second? How would people handle that... The best thing to do is to develop relationships with the people and players I am involved with and coach them in the manner I can. By taking some advice and developing the character in my position group, perhaps can spread to other areas. Perhaps I'll decide this is not the best for me and move on...if thats the case, that definitely will be a question I ask in return for places I interview...how do they develop character and leadership.
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Post by coachorr on Feb 27, 2008 14:17:03 GMT -6
I just work here.
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Post by coachorr on Feb 27, 2008 14:20:45 GMT -6
Kalfie, thank you, for sharing. You get it.
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Post by knighter on Feb 27, 2008 17:13:04 GMT -6
I wrote the following article for our Eagles Quarterly newsletter (which is given to all JCO's and workers that send kids to us). I am guessing you will see where I sit on the fence of character building being important.
The Direction Of Clarinda Academy Athletics
The first question everyone will ask is, “How much emphasis will be put on winning athletic contests?” While you read the direction in which I hope to lead athletics here at CA keep that question in mind and you will begin to understand the thought process behind it. Here at the CA I hope to instill a 7-step process towards becoming successful in all athletic activities that we offer.
Step 1 I believe we need to teach our athletes that athletics are merely an extension of what we are trying to teach them each and every day. (Trustworthiness, Respect, Fairness, Responsibility, Caring, and Citizenship) Here at the CA we do an outstanding job of teaching these things. Ultimately athletics do not build character, however they do reveal character. So our athletic programs will give us an idea as to how well we are doing our job. This is always a work in progress, and involves taking the time to look at everything we do, and determine if we need to “tweak” our ideas from time to time.
Step 2 We need to teach our athletes that a “Blue Collar” work ethic will lead them to success. Everything you get in life happens in direct proportion to how hard you work to attain it. Success and hard work go hand in hand. We would love to see these young people begin to take P.R.I.D.E. in what they do. (P= Personal, R= Responsibility, I= In, D= Daily, E= Effort) Vince Lombardi said it best when he talked about “paying the price”. To be successful one must be willing to pay the price to EARN success.
Step 3 We need to teach our athletes that being a positive contributor to a team effort is vital. This is a critical area that must be addressed, as I do not know of many coaches or employers who think that teamwork is not important. These young men and women need to understand that every person on the team has a job to do, a role to fulfill, and that they need to do their job to the absolute best of their ability in order to help the team be successful. This means that not every one can be the “star”. It is the ultimate goal of every coach that the team wins. In order for this to happen everyone involved in the team needs to learn what role they play, and accept that role.
Step 4 We need to teach our athletes what the definition of success is. Success is more than a Win/Loss record. It is more than what the scoreboard says at the end of an athletic contest. Success IS doing your absolute best in preparation for a contest, and performing to the best of your ability in that contest. Ultimately you can be successful even in a loss if you have “left everything on the field/court/mat”. Giving your best effort at all times will lead to success.
Step 5 We must teach our athletes to have confidence in themselves and their teammates. An average team steps into the arena wondering if they are going to be successful, a good team steps into the same arena and thinks they can be successful, a great team steps into the contest KNOWING they will be victorious. We need to develop the mentality that great athletic teams have. That confidence that we will emerge victorious is something we have to teach. This involves having confidence or trust in one’s teammates. If our athletes begin to believe in one another, and trust in one another to do their absolute best at all times, we can begin to achieve great things.
Step 6 We must teach our athletes to be resilient. Unfortunately in the athletic world, and in “real life” things will not always go as planned. There are going to be setbacks and obstacles to overcome. The measure of a person is how they overcome the setbacks and obstacles that happen. A winner focuses on the ultimate goal (success) instead of the obstacles that lay ahead of them that keep them from being successful. We need to help our athletes and coaches develop that type of focus. We need to focus on the goal of being successful instead of focusing on the things that hinder the chances of success. This is not only an important lesson in athletics, but in life as well.
Step 7 It is my belief that one of the most beneficial things for all athletics and athletes at the Clarinda Academy would be the hiring of a full time Strength and Conditioning Coordinator. Due to the limited size and space currently housing our weight room it is nearly impossible to get a large group of athletes lifting in a safe, yet time efficient manner. By utilizing our block scheduling and hiring someone to teach/implement a quality strength program combined with a plyometric, power, and agility program during the school day for a physical education credit, we can limit the number of athletes in the weight room, while still making it available to every athlete (male and female) on our campus. A quality program would help our athletes to become more powerful, more agile, faster, and more explosive, while also reducing the number of injuries sustained in athletics. It is my firm belief that if we could implement just one thing right now that would enhance our athletic programs immediately, this would be that one thing. I have seen poor athletes become average, and average athletes become great due to the work they put in in these areas. No doubt we have the athletes, now we simply need to make them better.
Ultimately, as you can see, if we can instill in our athletes each of these things, the wins will begin to take care of themselves. We need to hold firm in our belief that we can and will be successful, and that we need to develop this belief in our athletes as well. It may take some time, and a lot of reteaching, but it is our belief that we can make this happen. The 7 steps to success will help us to accomplish many things if we apply them.
Brad Knight is a 1996 graduate of the University of Northern Iowa where he played on 4 Gateway Conference Championship football teams. He has been a teacher and head football and track coach for 11 years having all but one of his football teams qualify for post-season play, and having numerous athletes qualify for the state track meet. He is a member of the Board of Directors in the Iowa Football Coaches Association. Brad and his wife Kala have two children, Hailee Rae (4) and Jerzee Jo (1).
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Post by eagledp on Feb 28, 2008 9:51:00 GMT -6
Character definitely counts. Yeah yeah yeah, we can lose our jobs over the scoreboard, but if the scoreboard is the measuring stick of your success, then your gonna find that you will be pretty empty inside at the end of your career, regardless of the number of rings you have. If only score matters, then I guess every season that falls short of a state championship is a failure. I recently visited with a coach at Maryville High School in TN. Right now their program is 113-2 since September of 2000, 6 state championships, 60 game winning streak right now. His exact words were, "I coached 20 years before I was a part of a championship team. Does that mean all those years meant nothing or were unsuccessful? Absolutely not." I agree that it is a parent's responsibility to teach morals/ethics. But it is also ours. We are often with these kids more hours/day than their parents, making us the #1 role model in their lives. If we build these young men(and our classroom students as well, lets not forget about that part of our job) fom the inside out, build character, loyalty, pride...PROGRESSING along to X's and O's then you will have at least a GOOD team and if you get fired for caring for kids, then you probably didn't need to be at that school in the first place. We already put these guys through the fire and force them to be mentally tough and resilient, why not spend 5 minutes to explain that that same tenacity and drive is what will carry them in life when times get rough. You and I both know that life WILL kick you in the nuts at some point. 99.99% of kids who have played football have been exposed to the tools they need to persevere. The only question is, did we show them that it could be applied elsewhere in life?
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Post by coachorr on Feb 28, 2008 9:53:48 GMT -6
Coach Knight, this is a great article. The point I liked the most was, teaching confidence to kids. I find this one aspect in a young adult's life is what can or could make or break them. Many times kids make bad choices, because they do not have the courage in themselves to do something different than those around them when others around them are doing the "wrong" things.
Which, plays into your perspective of teaching them to be part of the team and depend on their teammates.
And, I love the part of winning is not everything but trying and working with that "blue collar" mentality is. It is so funny, we get out of life what we put in and good things seem to happen more frequently to those who work at it.
This article sums it up for me, thanks for sharing.
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Post by eagledp on Feb 28, 2008 9:55:29 GMT -6
Now off my soapbox, mce86, I would not stay. I don't know your situation, and I wouldn't put my family out the streets in a cardboard box over it, but first chance I got, I would be out. If my views don't align with the HC then I don't need to be there. Kids can sense that, and somewhere down the road tension will be seen by the kids and then you are showing them they can disrespet their boss if they don't agree, see what I mean. I would go merely for the fact that it will put you in a bad way with respect to wlaking the walk.
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mce86
Junior Member
Posts: 281
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Post by mce86 on Feb 28, 2008 11:15:07 GMT -6
Those who are parents on this board, Nobody else is going to teach your kids character, they can only exemplify(sp?) it. They learn it from you. From you say and what you do. And that is winning, whether on the football field, basketball court, court of law, battle of egoes ect...., begins. Football at the HS level if it didnt make money would be deemed to violent for our kids by the libs. It is not their for Morals and values as some have suggested. That was the original intent, but no longer. MONEY.Your only responsibility as a coach is to set boundaries and guidelines to hopefully reinforce what is being taught at home. Brophy, Ulitimately is ALL about winning. THE end game is to win. and yes at all cost. But that includes the integrity race, character race, your relationship with god race...........If you break the rules to win then THEN ULTIMATELY you LOSE. IF you destroy everybody to get to the top, THEN ULTIMATELY YOU LOSE. If you divorce your WIFE because she is xyz....YOU LOSE. You lose when depending on how you define winning...if winning is Marrying your beautiful trophy wife because youve been taught that winning is most important, and then your wife has a child with a disability, has to quit her job to care for the child, and you walk out and quit, because, hey...its all about winning..having the beautiful wife and perfect child...thats how you define winning! Or, have you learned that winning is staying strong when things are difficult, being there for your family and teammates in tough times, and never quitting regardless of the price that needs to be paid or the "scoreboard" of life! And what about those kids whose family hasnt taught them the right morals? Are they just screwed? They cant be taught I suppose according to you... The speech from the end of Friday Night Lights sums it up greatly. Its not about the scoreboard..its about the relationship to your teammates (family) and knowing you gave everything you had and didnt let them down. You cannot always control winning...but you can control your effort. If your effort is 100%, you win! The actual win or loss is usually more dependent on your opponent than on yourself!!!
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Post by brophy on Feb 28, 2008 11:36:34 GMT -6
At the risk of offending 98% of the members of this board, if the educational system is supposed to teach kids how to survive in the 'real world' and function as adults, it fails miserably in my opinion.
Does the idealist belief that you can save every kid by being a teacher may get you out of bed in the morning and to your job, but the reality that we're able to erase 17 years of irresponsible upbringing is far-fetched.
We put kids in school so they we can train them to take our educational standards test. We need them to perform well on our tests, or we're not going to get state / federal funding. If we don't get funding we can't get raises or new computers. It isn't about cultivating minds for prosperous citizenship, it is about training young minds to obey and recite. ........follow the money, and you'll see why we all are seeking the administrator positions.
Should we model respectful and ethical treatment? Sure. Is it ideal? absolutely.
Football coaches are generally hired to win games, however. If you don't win games, you WILL be fired. If you do win games, you will prolong the eventual firing process.
The with-us-or-against-us / all-or-nothing logic of this thread is ridiculous.
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Post by coachorr on Feb 28, 2008 11:39:23 GMT -6
But what about One? What if you can improve the life of one person?
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Post by eagledp on Feb 28, 2008 11:40:13 GMT -6
i agree, the definition of winning is the most important thing. "moral victories" are victories because it usually involves someone giving or doing more than was expect from them or more than they were thought capable to do. liberalhater, i agree with a lot of what you said, but i do feel that we as coaches should define that for the kids, not assume they know it from their parents and write them off if they don't. we understand your logic about ULTIMATELY LOSING but kids don't see the consequences. IMO we have to help paint that picture for them.
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Post by coachorr on Feb 28, 2008 11:45:41 GMT -6
Should a coach swear in front of the kids? I have before, and this is something that I have worked to change. Seems like a little thing, but it has an impact, whether you admit that it does or not.
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Post by eagledp on Feb 28, 2008 11:47:54 GMT -6
I like what khalfie said, "You can't hold someone accountable and responsible for something they don't know... so first you must teach it... and once the two of you come to an understanding that the required information is known, then and only then, can you hold them accountable and responsible.
You want your team to hit the weights at 6:00am before school? That's a flaming hoop... will your killer whale jump through it? I doubt it... so what do you do? Kick the best kid off your team because he's not committed? I thought Winning was all that mattered?
I want to win... so I work to get that kid committed. But before I ask him to be committed, I first make sure he understands what committment means... I make sure, I get him committed to small things... such as addressing the coaches as coach or sir... making sure he and one other teammate are in constant contact... addressing his grade situation... not bettering... just recognizing where it currently stands.
A coaches job is to model, promote, and develop... to do anything else, IMHO, is to be irrelevant."
Well said...kid has to recognize and then DECIDE to improve. we can not do it for him. our job is to point out the obvious, explain the ramifications in real world terms, point the right way, and then hit our knees at night and pray they follow our example
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Post by eagledp on Feb 28, 2008 11:48:45 GMT -6
i meant for that to be in quotations, don't know how to do that yet, sorry khalfie not trying to steal your thunder!!
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Post by knighter on Feb 28, 2008 11:49:14 GMT -6
I agree and disagree with you Brophy. We may not be able to "save" them all. But in 12 years as a head coach and professional educator I can point out numerous examples of students that have been helped on the right path by people I have worked with. Would like to say that in some small way I have helped many of my students and athletes, and at CA if I can help even 5 kids over the course of a year become better citizens of the world, I am sure that I can hurt my elbow patting myself on the back.
Educators are not all in favor of NCLB or standardized testing, many (most IMO) are totally against solely judging the products we are putting in to the "real world" based on the criteria set forth by the government (remember NCLB was a Democratic initiative that was implemented by the Republican party). Most of the professional educators in the world do what we do (and more often than not live in poverty or close to it doing it) because we care enough to try to make a difference. If I wanted to get rich, I wouldn't be doing what I am doing, but helping (or trying to help) kids may not pay the bills, but it is sure a helluva lot more rewarding for me than punching a time clock. I am in this profession because people gave to me time and effort to mold me and help me in anyway possible (teachers and coaches) and I felt as though I owed the "next generation" that same thing. (sappy I know but 100% truthful)
So can you make a difference in the life of 1 kid? If you can and I am sure you have Brophy...how did it make you feel?
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