Does character count?

If you ain't the HC there's little you can do if things get done by the HC in the manner you've described- I say move on.

My suggestion was that if a kid is not fulfilling his "citizen" responsibilities, he would sit behind a lesser athlete with better character.
I said by doing this, you would demand of the other kids to be great citizens to maintain their positions. By not doing this, you send the message that the only thing that matters is your ability??
Does anyone actually sit kids for not having good character?

dennis parker, head coach at texas lutheran and former head h.s. coach will tell you teaching character is the most importanat think you can do.

I can tell you this, I would rather have 11 rudy's then 11 michael vicks. I am going to have a whole lot less problems and rudys will do what they are told.

If winnings is the what it is about, then you justify anything in order to win.

It sounds like there are many thoughts similar to mine.
I really believe that you can change the behavior if there is a demand for it to be changed! With no demand, means no need to change your attitude!
Sometimes after having the conversation with "the boss" you begin to think maybe your own thinking is somehow flawed!
Im really thinking about leaving and moving on, I dont think coaching where I dont buy in to the way things are done will work for me.

My belief is as a sophomore in high school, if you get suspended, you also lose the priveledge of being a starter on the team. You can still play, and likely will, but the starting job will now belong to someone else. Obviously, if you are getting suspended from school, you are not the one to rely on in the 4th quarter when things are getting tough.
Character issues such as getting good grades in school, being respectful in hallways to students and teachers, following school and team rules at all times. We had an obvious incident last year because a player was not in camp because he was in jail..."but the drugs were not his"...and "it wasnt that bad this time"
This kid still played because he ran a 4.5 40...in fact, played both ways...over less talented kids who have been great kids playing behind him but not as good of athletes.
This is not the NFL or NBA where players should get suspended and come back to start IMO...I think it is about teaching kids that given 100% effort and the right amount of talent, chemistry, and character you win on the field and off!

Has anybody used this???

I know gary halvorson former woodbury high school minnesota coach started with the coaching to change lifes as a coach and now all he does is lecture on it. he thought is was the big reason behind why they won a minnesota state championship.
gary has left and since then woodbury has struggled to regain the winning ways.


one lecture I have always found interesting was the alaskan pipe line. working on the oil line, texas welders had problems compared to there cold weather counter parts. productivity was higer with the cold weather welders cause they could focus on the job at hand, while the texas welder would focus on the cold.

the moral is, you can only control yourself and what you choose to focus on. you can focus on your job and get it done or you can be distracted by external events andnot get the job done.

In our area this happens. www.charactercombine.com - Past speakers have be Joe Erhmann of "Season of Life" fame as well and Jeffrey Marx the author of "SOL". When I get home, I'll upload some of the stuff we are doing to address this.

The one thing in place right now is our "C" helmet sticker. We give out "C"s to any football player who performs an act of character, compassion, caring, etc. OUTSIDE of football and part of the school. The only way the player can get a "C" is if this is done off the field. Players have received awards for finding a wallet full of money in the lockeroom and returning it to the coach, breaking up potential fights on campus and taking the culprits to administration, giving up their chair to another student when the classroom didn't have enough desks (this happened to one of my position players in my class), volunteering to help stack firewood for the elderly, shoveling snow off the driveways of the local senior home, etc. The "C" is the most important sticker on your helmet.

I like what I'm reading...

And I think its already been said, but football doesn't develop character... it reveals it...

And I think what I'm also reading, is that some coaches don't like what's being revealed.

Kid tells a coach f-you... that's football revealing character, now the important question is... what does the coach do about it!

Not what the HC does about it, or the position coach, but the coach that was told f-you?

My major issue, is that many times I hear of coaches reacting as many have proposed... punish him... teach him a lesson... he'll never play for me, til he does exactly as i tell him...

No doubt about it, we coaches have control issues, who else would volunteer to make 50+ teenagers do as we say? But the point is, there are extenuating circumstances with all of our players, and if we aren't willing to delve into their lives, create substantial relationships with each and everyone of our kids... this character discussion is nothing more than a "red herring".

BD or not... white or black... low income or well to do... kids want attention, and they will get it one way or another. The essence of coaching is serving your players, meeting their needs, so that they can fulfill your expectations... the kid acting an a$$ is reaching out... and unfortunately his environment has prepared him to reach out in an appropriate manner.

You can do what the rest of society already does... punish him... you can do what the kid has come to expect... be punished... or you can affect that kids life, give him a little something different, and hopefully make an impact in an obviously distressed area.

All this talk about the HC's philosophy on winning at all cost, has nothing to do with you and your ability to engender relationships of importance. All this talk about wanting to quit because of philosophical differences, sounds to me like a cop out... its just too hard to reach those kids...

And if that's the case, cool... not every coach can reach every kid... every coach should try... especially before doing what everyone else does, engender a dislike, formulate a systematic ritualistic punishment/fight with the kid until he quits or does something really stupid.

A coaches job is to model, develop and promote... and this need to punish... thats a personal issue.

I agree to an extent with you Khalfie, you do need to build relationships with kids and not just hand out consequences blindly. I also totally agree that you need to listen to your players. However, the coach is not the bad guy by handing out consequences. If the rules are spelled out and the kid chooses not to obey them. He is choosing to accept the consequences. I'm not saying that you kick him off the team, but you do need to expect correct behavior. Kids usually live up to expectations placed on them. Disciplining your players shows that you really do care about them and are taking the time/energy to try to help them. But discipline needs be done in a spirit of caring, not just blindly and coldly punishing them. If they have rotten home lives, they either have a lack of discipline, meaning that nobody really gives a crap what this kid does, or the discipline is given with the wrong motive, (to controll/manipulte the kid, out of anger not out of care or concern, to punish rather than to teach.). Not all kids respond to this though and that is unfortunate because they usually have to hit rock bottom before they are willing to accept correction from anybody.
Until they learn to accept correction in a positive manner, you cannot help them.


When they get to that point where they can accept correction, they have just learned an extremely valuable lesson that will carry them on throuout life and can also teach them many more lessons.

just my two cents.

That was a great point by Khalife (bravo!).

I don't think any of these responses actually address what mce86 posted, though.

He is referring to his situation possibly fatiguing him emotionally or being a complete waste of time = A BAD FIT for him.
maybe the thread is mistitled or something, but the soap box we're all preaching on really isn't rrelevant to this guy's situation(?).

If the HC doesn't believe in it - what is the point?

I agree brophy, I think the guy needs to either help change the hc or move on to a better situation.

It hasn't happend...

But if it did... I'd do what trainers do with killer whales... I'd end the training session and send the whale to its cave, until the whale is ready to be taught.

Recognizing I would be dealing with struggling organizations (read as bad football teams), and having a MBA, I quickly married football to corporate culture, and how to change said culture to a winning culture.

One particular book, "Whale Done", equated bad businesses to the training of killer whales... which is very synonymous to coaching teenagers.

The book detailed how you get a killer whale to jump through a flaming hoop. I thought that was great, considering i had no idea how you get a killer whale to jump through a flaming hoop... and my killer whale (bad football team) won't jump through any hoops also.

The key to getting a killer whale to jump through a flaming hoop is simple... meet the killer whales most pressing need, and it will do everything you ask... however, make sure you ask of the killer whale, real simple tasks, before asking to jump through the flaming hoop... and when the whale does that simple task, meet his most basic need immediately, and the basic need for a killer whale is food... for a teenager... attention... love... protection.

So, what trainers of killer whales do, is put a line under the water... and everytime the killer whale swims over the line, congratulate, celebrate and feed the whale immediately.

To bring it home with our football team... first and foremost, the coaching staff and myself go on a Whale Done crusade... catching, rewarding, and congratulating our players on the most minute of sincereties... "Eric... I saw you shared your water with your teammate... whale done!"

While creating relationships with our players... we are assessing their most primal needs... some may be looking for a male role model... some looking for a disciplinarian... others a friend... some a confident, and many a father figure.... so we prepare to be all of these things for many different players, fully recognizing that certain players will only trust certain coaches. Once we ascertain whose ears we have, we create huddle groups, and communicate from such.

We must catch our players doing Whale... so we can say whale done... we must set up the line under the water... give our bad kids real easy opportunities to be recognized as good kids, and tell them whale done when they do it, so they know we are paying attention.

Some bad behavior, we have to address, but not necessarily punish, killer whales know how to react when attacked... First and foremost we must make sure our kids know their well being is our first priority.

In short... if the bad kid told me f-you... and we were in an environment of bad language, in which emotions haven't been taught how to be addressed properly... I'd send the kid home. The next day, we'd talk about the interaction...

If I haven't created an environment where I can catch this bad kid doing whale, but only created an environment of flaming hoops without teaching the kids first how to cross the line under the water.... and then punish him for not jumping through the flaming hoop... even if its only flaming in his mind... then shame on me for being a poor trainer and accepting a job with killer whales involved... and f-me...

I know there are certain social discourses we should be able to expect from every individual... but again... if I don't know the background of the kid... shame on me, for messing the with killer whale in the first place.

If winning is all that matters, what do you have when you lose? And how many teams finish with a win?