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Post by Wingtman on Oct 17, 2010 20:31:50 GMT -6
Friday night a program in our state, scored 94 points vs the state Military school. Final was 94-21. At one point the game was 15-15 in the second quarter. the game was 78-21 with 2 mintues left in the game, so they tacked on 16 more in the last 2. This is a class 3 school (mid sized), traditionally wins 4-5 games a year. The Militarry school is in the same district as this team, so it wasn't like school A scheduled them, but the Military school has no business playing that size football because of mulitplers and such (another rant for another day). How much is to much? I know, you can't tell your kids to NOT play hard, and this school is a double tight, double wing team, but when do you just punt on first down, or take a knee for 3 downs then punt?
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Post by phantom on Oct 17, 2010 20:36:06 GMT -6
Depends how they scored the points. Pick sixes, kicking game, 2nds and 3rds in the game. If you do yoiur part that's all you can do.
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Post by Wingtman on Oct 17, 2010 21:14:32 GMT -6
Like I said, not really sure how they scored, just a point for topic
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Post by rcole on Oct 17, 2010 21:29:22 GMT -6
We played a far inferior team Friday night. Halftime was 40-0. Final was 50-0. We started subbing in the second quarter. Started the starters in the 3rd (minus starting tailback and best Wr), played them two series. Didn't throw the ball in the 4th. Opposing team asked for a running clock in the second half (which I DO NOT agree with, but thats another topic). We only ran 41 plays after running 76 the previous week. Our starting tailback had 61 yards on 3 carries and never played another snap. Best Wr sat down halfway through the 2nd. Our head coach simply will not let us throw the ball with a lead like that.
In most cases I am not opposed to one team scoring 50 or 60 in a blowout, and I have been blown out many times in my career. Like phantom said, it depends on how it all transpired. This has been discussed here before and it seemed that most felt that running up the score was an overrated topic.
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Post by Yash on Oct 17, 2010 21:29:43 GMT -6
I will never punt on first down. If you can't stop my base running plays I'm sorry, but I'm not making it any simpler for you. My kids deserve to play too. I will not pass in a blow out, but I will run the ball, no trickeration, but I can run iso and power. You can put all 11 guys on the LOS, but I will run the ball. I will not knee it before the 1 min mark and I will not punt if it is not 4th down.
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Post by rcole on Oct 17, 2010 21:32:39 GMT -6
I dare say that kneeling early or punting early is MORE insulting that scoring again. At least that is how I would feel if I were being blown out.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 17, 2010 21:44:23 GMT -6
You can put all 11 guys on the LOS, but I will run the ball. Couple years ago, we were really putting to this other team. 34-0 at halftime. Plan was to try and get to 40-0 ASAP so the running clock would kick in. We got the 2nd half kickoff and scored in about 6 plays. 41-0 and the running clock kicks in. We get our starters out and put in our backups and sophomores to finish out the game. The other team leaves their starters in against our young guys and starts blitzing all 4 linebackers on every down. They force a fumble on the 3rd play, they recover, and then they score to make it 41-6. We get the ball back on the kickoff. They are still blitzing. Another forced fumble. They get the ball on our side of the field. We manage to hold them to 2 first downs before they turn the ball over on downs. We get the ball back. We know they are going to keep teeing off on our youngsters so we call a QB boot pass. The entire defense sucks in on the PA fake, no one covers the QB, and the backside TE is wide open downfield with no one within 40 yards of him. Easy TD. We go up 47-6 (missed the PAT). Anyway, their coaches start screaming and shouting over on their sideline. "That's bush league", "That's bullsh*t", "Way to run it up on us, a$$holes", and all kinds of other crap. I guess we should have just let them tee off on our backups and sophomores so their coaches would have felt better about their effort. Thing is, I respected their right to continue playing hard. Clearly, their starters did not match up with our starters. We were just better. They actually competed fairly well with our backups and sophs. So, I don't blame them for continuing to play hard. With that being said, they should not have been surprised when our backups played hard, as well.
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Post by Wingtman on Oct 17, 2010 22:05:18 GMT -6
I agree about the punting thing. If your running base stuff, then that's fine. Reverses and such...lame. and I hate hate hate it when varsities tee off on obvious jv players
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2010 22:10:39 GMT -6
As stated above, it depends on how the points were scored. I've been on the wrong end of an 84-8 game and I can't say the opponent ran it up. Five of their scores were defensive or special teams scores.
I've lost 42-14 and the opponent was trying to run it up at the end by hurrying to the line and running two straight hail mary's to get another one in on us. Again, it's kind of like that saying about porn--hard to define, but you know it when you see it!
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 18, 2010 8:28:07 GMT -6
You should never take a knee 3 times in a row and punt. You should never punt on 1st down. That's just rediculous and shows the team up more!
What you do is play all your subs and run your base run plays. If you score you score. Your JV players practice just as hard as the starters. They deserve to at least be able to run basic plays rather then take a knee and punt.
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Post by wingt74 on Oct 18, 2010 8:33:31 GMT -6
I'm finishing up my 10th season as a HC. Every team I've ever coached, I've had a kid who played HB that I could give the balll to, and know he'll execute, get a few yards if there is a hole...but he won't bust it.
That kid never gets to play, or plays very little and is very happy to get in the game and get some touches. Even with my first team OLine.
It's inexcusable to run up the score. You know when you have a team's #. Very strong opinion on this.
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Post by bigdog2003 on Oct 18, 2010 8:45:51 GMT -6
Some times there is little you can do to keep the score down. If you put in the 3rd and sometimes 4th teams and run up the middle, and are still scoring, what else can you do?
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Post by coachcb on Oct 18, 2010 8:59:05 GMT -6
1. I will never punt on a 1st down; I think it's worse than running up the score. As good as the intention might be, you're 'pitying' them and that's worse for the oppositions moral.
2. I will never take a knee for three straight downs and punt for the same reasons I described above.
3. When I've run into these situations over the years, the special teams and defense were a huge part of the score. There were a lot of turn-overs that went for scores and the the return teams couldn't be stopped.
4. I have no issue with chuck-n-duck teams throwing the ball when they're up big as it's their offense. They don't spend all week repping their passing game to come out and run QB draw every down. Now, if they're a ground team that's rolled us running the ball, I would have an issue with them throwing late in the game. There is a team in our conference that hung 100 points on someone and they're a double wing unit; they left their starters in and threw off of PA all game long. BUT, I would never say anything to the opposing coaches, my kids or anyone else about it.
5. If you're up by a lot, it's not only classless to leave your starters in, it's stupid on your part. You're risking injuring your players for the sake of stats. Plus, it does your program a lot of good to get your depth reps in a game time situation; I feel that it builds moral and enthusiasm.
If you develop a bad reputation when it comes to this stuff, it will carry with you throughout your career. We had a team run it up on us bad this year and the opposing parents and even a player apologized to us. Again, I didn't say anything, other than congratulating them on playing tough and I wished them well for the rest of the season. Apparently, their HC has been doing it for a long time and it's been a detriment to the program. The community doesn't back football and some kids don't go out because of it.
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Post by lsrood on Oct 18, 2010 8:59:27 GMT -6
Had this happen to us two weeks ago playing the defending state champions. We are having a rough year, only dressing on average 18-19 players per game and starting mostly sophomores (9 underclassmen start on both sides of the ball) which has led to an 0-7 record and only two competitive games. Anyway they were up 48-0 with about a minute to go in the 1st half when we punt and they run a reverse on the punt with their #1 returners in the game and take it down to our 5. They score to go up 54-0 then the holder picks up the ball on the snap, not a bad snap and they run a two point play which we stop. So as we head into half-time their coach comes over toward me saying that he wanted to apologize because the players did that on their own. I just waved him off cause I feel it's my job to coach my team up to prevent that from happening. Well, he must have felt bad because when they got the ball because he had his subs kneel down two straight plays at the 50 yard line.
To me that was more humiliating than running the reverse and the two point try. I called time out and went out onto the field and basically shouted over to him to"Let your kids play. You are humiliating us more kneeling down than if you score." He let them play and they only scored one more on us with his subs running base plays. I don't have a problem with that, but I do have a problem with kneeling down and humiliating my players.
To be fair, they have another great team and will probably win the states again and could have beaten us by a much larger margin had they chosen to do so. We have a very young team that will be lucky to win a game. It was a mismatch going in, ended up a mismatch, and I wouldn't have been so upset at the end if they hadn't pulled the kneeldowns.
I have also been on the other side of the score many times and always call off the dogs and run base plays with my back-ups. I have never tried to humiliate the other teams kids. It's something I feel very strongly about.
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Post by mattharris75 on Oct 18, 2010 9:12:26 GMT -6
OK, so since many of you find kneeling humiliating to your opponent here's a scenario for you.
3 weeks ago we were up 49-0 on a team with less than a minute to play in the first half. We had the ball on their 3 yard line and we knelt twice to keep from going up 56-0 in the first half.
Was that an acceptable course of action in the opinion of most here? I felt like it was the right thing to do. (We already had backups in at that point, and our freshmen played the entire second half with shortened quarters)
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Post by lsrood on Oct 18, 2010 9:20:09 GMT -6
Coach, if you had your rserves in then yes it is humiliating. I would have had no problem with your reserves scoring. They deserve to play if the game gets out of hand and it is up to my team to stop them. You scoring with reserves right before the half is not humiliating it is just football. Now if your #1s were still in it is a different story.
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Post by wingtol on Oct 18, 2010 9:22:39 GMT -6
I'm finishing up my 10th season as a HC. Every team I've ever coached, I've had a kid who played HB that I could give the balll to, and know he'll execute, get a few yards if there is a hole...but he won't bust it. That kid never gets to play, or plays very little and is very happy to get in the game and get some touches. Even with my first team OLine. It's inexcusable to run up the score. You know when you have a team's #. Very strong opinion on this. Had this very situation on Sat night. We ended up winning 67-7. Was just a horrible game to coach in. We were playing our jv's after the first series of the second half. In the 4th quarter we had a kid break a 65 yard run. This kid is I would say honestly our 9th string half back, he gets the ball on bucksweep and off he goes. We timed it on film, it took him almost 16 seconds to run that far. I mean what do you do at that point? On a side note I did feel bad for the other team after the game until I watched our film and saw their OL high lowing our DL the entire game. It was consistent and you could tell they were taught/told to do it. So after that I don't feel that bad anymore.
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 18, 2010 10:34:25 GMT -6
We are the team in our area that 'runs up the score'. It is what it is. We run our stuff, even with back ups in. If you line up in C0, we will throw a fade. If you're running the hitch/pitch, reverses, etc... we will blitz. We coach our kids to go hard. Our back ups get in the game. We expect them to go hard.
We are in a stretch of several games to be honest we should have no problem with. The problem is at the end of this stretch, we have a huge game in which starters will have to fight and scratch for 48 minutes. How is pulling the starters after the 1st series of the second quarter going to prepare them that game?
And yes, we do the fast pace pratice, SAQ, etc.... thing.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 18, 2010 11:02:22 GMT -6
We are the team in our area that 'runs up the score'. It is what it is. We run our stuff, even with back ups in. If you line up in C0, we will throw a fade. If you're running the hitch/pitch, reverses, etc... we will blitz. We coach our kids to go hard. Our back ups get in the game. We expect them to go hard. We are in a stretch of several games to be honest we should have no problem with. The problem is at the end of this stretch, we have a huge game in which starters will have to fight and scratch for 48 minutes. How is pulling the starters after the 1st series of the second quarter going to prepare them that game? And yes, we do the fast pace pratice, SAQ, etc.... thing. I guess my 'cut-off' is the middle of the third or the beginning of the fourth quarter. If you're rolling us (or vice-versa), I don't expect to see the second string in there until later in the game. My nose is only going to out of joint when the game is totally out of hand and the opponent's starters are in there way into the fourth quarter. But, that's from a sportsmanship standpoint. From a practical, coaching stance, playing your starters a lot in the second half when the game is out of reach isn't a good idea. You're risking the players' health for no reason at that point. Why play the studs and risk an injury for the sake of teaching them to play a full football game?
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Post by lochness on Oct 18, 2010 11:05:25 GMT -6
"Running the score up" is decidedly different than "scoring a lot of points."
I would define "running the score up" as continuing to play starters and / or calling plays that are outside the base structure of the offense with the intention of padding the score even though there is no chance of that team coming back and beating you.
Bottom line: the defense is responsible for stopping the offense. If they can't stop your JV guys from scoring with base plays...that's not running the score up. That's football.
If I leave my starters in and I'm throwing 5-step and playaction routes when I'm typically a 75% run team...yeah, I think that's wrong.
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Post by phantom on Oct 18, 2010 12:44:51 GMT -6
We are the team in our area that 'runs up the score'. It is what it is. We run our stuff, even with back ups in. If you line up in C0, we will throw a fade. If you're running the hitch/pitch, reverses, etc... we will blitz. We coach our kids to go hard. Our back ups get in the game. We expect them to go hard. We are in a stretch of several games to be honest we should have no problem with. The problem is at the end of this stretch, we have a huge game in which starters will have to fight and scratch for 48 minutes. How is pulling the starters after the 1st series of the second quarter going to prepare them that game? And yes, we do the fast pace pratice, SAQ, etc.... thing. We're in the same boat so I understand exactly what you mean. There have been games when we've had to leave the firsts in because they need to know how to play late into the game. Sorry about that but we have to worry about us.
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Post by airman on Oct 18, 2010 15:16:28 GMT -6
I like to use the statement if the shoe where on the other foot a lot so I tend to think before I act.
Many times I think people confuse running up the score with scoring points. they see a lopsided score and automatically thinking running up the score.
I think anytime you try to embarrass the other them when the score it big. It amazes me how many coaches like to try the trick plays when they are up big. I guess they think this is the best time as if it fails it is no big deal.
we had a wishbone team in a conference I used to coach in who liked to practice their passing game when they were up big.
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 18, 2010 16:34:46 GMT -6
OK, so since many of you find kneeling humiliating to your opponent here's a scenario for you. 3 weeks ago we were up 49-0 on a team with less than a minute to play in the first half. We had the ball on their 3 yard line and we knelt twice to keep from going up 56-0 in the first half. Was that an acceptable course of action in the opinion of most here? I felt like it was the right thing to do. (We already had backups in at that point, and our freshmen played the entire second half with shortened quarters) If you had your subs in then I wouldn't care at all if you scored on me. I'd rather you not take a knee at my 3 yard line.
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newhc
Sophomore Member
Posts: 209
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Post by newhc on Oct 18, 2010 18:13:04 GMT -6
I have been on both sides as well. I guess here are my things:
If there are some things that a team will work on for the future ie playoffs, that they have done in a regular game. When your down you become a prime candidate for that. They kick FG's, run trick plays, run special 2 Pt. Conversion Plays, or other things out of the ordinary.
Does that make it running up the score? Is that humiliating?
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newhc
Sophomore Member
Posts: 209
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Post by newhc on Oct 18, 2010 18:13:29 GMT -6
I have been on both sides as well. I guess here are my things: 1. I don't mind if you do it with your 2's and 3's. They deserve to play and score My motto is this "If you don't want anyone to step on you while your down, get off the F$#&^ing floor.:
As coaches, I understand that there are some things that a team will work on for the future ie playoffs, that they have done in a regular game. When your down you become a prime candidate for that. They kick FG's, run trick plays, run special 2 Pt. Conversion Plays, or other things out of the ordinary. Does that make it running up the score?
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Post by coachcb on Oct 18, 2010 19:44:53 GMT -6
There have been many situations in our conference where a team has been accused of running the score up when that wasn't the case at all. It's just the reality of 8-man football; if an athlete gets out into space, you're one missed tackle away from a big gain or a score.
We lost to a team 56-35 a few weeks back and parents were hollering because they threw their starters back in late in the game. But, they failed to realize that we had scored 14 points on the varsity unit in the first half (48-14)and then another 14 (48-28) in the third quarter when they pulled a few of their studs. We weren't just moving the ball; we were ripping off big runs and scoring quickly. We traded scores late in the game to make it 56-35. They knew, that even with a running clock, we were in a position to make it a game and had to get their guys back in there. I mean, a pick-six or a big special team play would put us right back in the mix. They got really spooky when we recovered an onside kick.
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Post by brophy on Oct 19, 2010 7:04:07 GMT -6
I hate teams that run up the score! /mad! Last Friday, a district opponent (that will likely win 4A state) with a QB committed to Miss State and a RB/LB with offers from DI schools ran for 397 yards and passed for 202 yards.....beat our team like a drum 84-42 (could've scored 100) I'm so mad!! Argh! They wouldn't stop scoring on us! **of course I'm kidding. They were a great team, but you tell me if there's something wrong with this arithmetic.... 'quarters match' while blitzing 7 every play Point being - teams can't "run the score up on you" unless you let them. Shut up and coach your team
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hwkfn1
Junior Member
Posts: 258
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Post by hwkfn1 on Oct 19, 2010 7:16:38 GMT -6
We had this situation last week. Up 46-0 at the half. We started subbing not quite halfway through the 2nd quarter. Back-ups played the entire 2nd half, except for the first play. We ran iso and we went 70 yards for a TD. They scored several TDs against our 2s, 3s, and 4s. We put together a drive with our reserves. On a 3rd and long we run a pass that should hve been thrown into the flats. Instead our back up QB throws across his body towards our 4th string TE on a post. TE out jumps the DBs and scores a TD. We are still debatingabout whether or not that was running up the score.
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Post by gdoggwr on Oct 19, 2010 8:42:23 GMT -6
If you score on me with your subs running your base, so be it. if you chuck and duck, then chuck and duck with your 2 and 3's. That said, if i'm down 50-0 and you're still running full speed hurry up no huddle and throwing fades, etc, I'll probably be pissed. you can walk up to the line and snap the ball with 3 seconds on the playclock at least.
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Post by mattharris75 on Oct 19, 2010 9:09:01 GMT -6
OK, so since many of you find kneeling humiliating to your opponent here's a scenario for you. 3 weeks ago we were up 49-0 on a team with less than a minute to play in the first half. We had the ball on their 3 yard line and we knelt twice to keep from going up 56-0 in the first half. Was that an acceptable course of action in the opinion of most here? I felt like it was the right thing to do. (We already had backups in at that point, and our freshmen played the entire second half with shortened quarters) If you had your subs in then I wouldn't care at all if you scored on me. I'd rather you not take a knee at my 3 yard line. Thing is, the subs had already scored the last 2 TD's on them. Including a 60 yard TD pass by our backup QB. It's not like they didn't have an opportunity to play. Not to mention that 2nd string QB and both backup RB's start on defense. We felt for the sake of our team it was more important for our freshmen to get game reps than our #2's, who already get PT on both sides of the ball. But regardless of that, the point of us kneeling at the end of the half wasn't to embarrass the other team. It was simply an attempt to show class. We've been there before ourselves. Now maybe the other team didn't interpret it that way. Maybe it's like all you are saying, they were insulted and pissed off. But that certainly wasn't our goal. I think that very often it's easy to interpret the actions of the opposing team in whatever way suits your emotions at the time, regardless of intention.
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