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Post by blb on May 22, 2020 11:15:30 GMT -6
Agreed. We enforce making up the practice that you missed but we have kids who miss all summer to go and live with their Dad in another state. Can't fault a kid if that's his only chance to see his dad all year. I don't do the case by case basis because that's opening up yourself to bull$hit you don't have time for. Hard fast rule. You miss you make it up. If you have made it up by the time its game time then you can play if we feel like you are ready to. If its the whole summer kid it would be 2 weeks of make ups mostly for conditioning purposes and he would be fine and what do you tell the kid who shows to every session, then when practice starts, the guy who didnt show. For whatever reason gets all the reps? Can't speak for CS but on my teams nobody got "all the reps" during Pre-Season practice. They were divided up evenly. If somebody missed all summer they might start out second team but would still get same attention during practice-opportunity to earn PT as first team. Once we got into the season we obviously would have to focus to an extent on the kids who would be doing most of the playing. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 11:29:31 GMT -6
and what do you tell the kid who shows to every session, then when practice starts, the guy who didnt show. For whatever reason gets all the reps? Can't speak for CS but on my teams nobody got "all the reps" during Pre-Season practice. They were divided up evenly. If somebody missed all summer they might start out second team but would still get same attention during practice-opportunity to earn PT as first team. Once we got into the season we obviously would have to focus to an extent on the kids who would be doing most of the playing. Its not about any one individual on this board per say. So the kid who showed all offseason is still the loser. Which leads to my point; why does either kid need to show up for anything? I am not ripping anybody cause it happens here. Its why I said it depends on the kid. |
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Post by fantom on May 22, 2020 11:42:46 GMT -6
Can't speak for CS but on my teams nobody got "all the reps" during Pre-Season practice. They were divided up evenly. If somebody missed all summer they might start out second team but would still get same attention during practice-opportunity to earn PT as first team. Once we got into the season we obviously would have to focus to an extent on the kids who would be doing most of the playing. Its not about any one individual on this board per say. So the kid who showed all offseason is still the loser. Which leads to my point; why does either kid need to show up for anything? I am not ripping anybody cause it happens here. Its why I said it depends on the kid. Why show up at all? To make himself the best player that he can become. Unfortunately, because we'd love to see kids like that succeed, sometimes that isn't good enough. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 12:53:45 GMT -6
Its not about any one individual on this board per say. So the kid who showed all offseason is still the loser. Which leads to my point; why does either kid need to show up for anything? I am not ripping anybody cause it happens here. Its why I said it depends on the kid. Why show up at all? To make himself the best player that he can become. Unfortunately, because we'd love to see kids like that succeed, sometimes that isn't good enough. they, the kids who showed up at the non season stuff, get no reward for there hard work, and the kid who didnt show up for any non season, got the playing time for doing so. So again... Your argument isnt all wrong, but in competition when cant win or cant lose, why do any extra? |
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Post by CS on May 22, 2020 13:15:26 GMT -6
Agreed. We enforce making up the practice that you missed but we have kids who miss all summer to go and live with their Dad in another state. Can't fault a kid if that's his only chance to see his dad all year. I don't do the case by case basis because that's opening up yourself to bull$hit you don't have time for. Hard fast rule. You miss you make it up. If you have made it up by the time its game time then you can play if we feel like you are ready to. If its the whole summer kid it would be 2 weeks of make ups mostly for conditioning purposes and he would be fine and what do you tell the kid who shows to every session, then when practice starts, the guy who didnt show. For whatever reason gets all the reps? Like what blb said, not one person gets all of the reps anyway. Kids know who the better players are. Plus if you're not afraid of difficult conversations and you sit and talk to kids they generally understand. That being said if your scenario actually played out as you described it I have never coached a team that had a kid taking all the reps during the summer and then get bounced as soon as another kid got back. If the kid coming back was good enough i'm sure that the kid who got tons of reps in the summer would be at least good enough to split some reps if I had spent all summer repping his a$$ |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 13:36:53 GMT -6
and what do you tell the kid who shows to every session, then when practice starts, the guy who didnt show. For whatever reason gets all the reps? Like what blb said, not one person gets all of the reps anyway. Kids know who the better players are. Plus if you're not afraid of difficult conversations and you sit and talk to kids they generally understand. That being said if your scenario actually played out as you described it I have never coached a team that had a kid taking all the reps during the summer and then get bounced as soon as another kid got back. If the kid coming back was good enough i'm sure that the kid who got tons of reps in the summer would be at least good enough to split some reps if I had spent all summer repping his a$$ I know the kids know the pecking order. And there is always a social draw to playin any sport. But if its the players play, the coach really doesnt really believe in discipline. THe. Coach doesnt really believe in hard work or any of the other non sense he is selling. |
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Post by blb on May 22, 2020 13:58:51 GMT -6
Like what blb said, not one person gets all of the reps anyway. Kids know who the better players are. Plus if you're not afraid of difficult conversations and you sit and talk to kids they generally understand. That being said if your scenario actually played out as you described it I have never coached a team that had a kid taking all the reps during the summer and then get bounced as soon as another kid got back. If the kid coming back was good enough i'm sure that the kid who got tons of reps in the summer would be at least good enough to split some reps if I had spent all summer repping his a$$ I know the kids know the pecking order. And there is always a social draw to playin any sport. But if its the players play, the coach really doesnt really believe in discipline. THe. Coach doesnt really believe in hard work or any of the other non sense he is selling. I wasn't a college coach who could hold a scholarship over a kid's head for his out of season attendance. I was a HS coach who could not make Off-Season activities mandatory (not that I would have if I could), just provide kids with opportunities to as fantom said become the best players they could be. Football is a meritocracy - best players, as demonstrated on the field, play. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 14:09:44 GMT -6
I know the kids know the pecking order. And there is always a social draw to playin any sport. But if its the players play, the coach really doesnt really believe in discipline. THe. Coach doesnt really believe in hard work or any of the other non sense he is selling. I wasn't a college coach who could hold a scholarship over a kid's head for his out of season attendance. I was a HS coach who could not make Off-Season activities mandatory (not that I would have if I could), just provide kids with opportunities to as fantom said become the best players they could be. Football is a meritocracy - best players, as demonstrated on the field, play. Forget off season then. Why bother practicing. The message of discipline, hard work still means nothing. Makes the coach a hypocrite. |
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Post by blb on May 22, 2020 14:23:32 GMT -6
I wasn't a college coach who could hold a scholarship over a kid's head for his out of season attendance. I was a HS coach who could not make Off-Season activities mandatory (not that I would have if I could), just provide kids with opportunities to as fantom said become the best players they could be. Football is a meritocracy - best players, as demonstrated on the field, play. Forget off season then. Why bother practicing. The message of discipline, hard work still means nothing. Makes the coach a hypocrite. You are using an extreme example - the star player who does nothing in Off-Season, and a coach who gives him a starting position on first day of practice anyway. That might make the coach a hypocrite but doesn't diminish value of either Off-Season workouts-camps or the hard work and discipline required when practice starts. Certainly doesn't justify doing away with either in vast majority of HS situations. It is disconcerting how negative and full of hyperbole the vast majority of your posts, apparently based on personal experience, are. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 14:50:31 GMT -6
Forget off season then. Why bother practicing. The message of discipline, hard work still means nothing. Makes the coach a hypocrite. You are using an extreme example - the star player who does nothing in Off-Season, and a coach who gives him a starting position on first day of practice anyway. That might make the coach a hypocrite but doesn't diminish value of either Off-Season workouts-camps or the hard work and discipline required when practice starts. Certainly doesn't justify doing away with either in vast majority of HS situations. It is disconcerting how negative and full of hyperbole the vast majority of your posts, apparently based on personal experience, are. jumping the gun are you not? I never said anything about doing away with it all. |
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Post by CS on May 22, 2020 15:04:01 GMT -6
Like what blb said, not one person gets all of the reps anyway. Kids know who the better players are. Plus if you're not afraid of difficult conversations and you sit and talk to kids they generally understand. That being said if your scenario actually played out as you described it I have never coached a team that had a kid taking all the reps during the summer and then get bounced as soon as another kid got back. If the kid coming back was good enough i'm sure that the kid who got tons of reps in the summer would be at least good enough to split some reps if I had spent all summer repping his a$$ I know the kids know the pecking order. And there is always a social draw to playin any sport. But if its the players play, the coach really doesnt really believe in discipline. THe. Coach doesnt really believe in hard work or any of the other non sense he is selling. My example was a kid who had to leave the state to live with another parent because his parents were divorced and it was the only time he could see his dad throughout the year and somehow you turn that into not believing in hard work or discipline? I have had this happen at two different schools now. One kid, who is at Harvard now, got all of his make-ups done in one week(he doubled up if you are wondering). The other kid quit after a few days. We can "what if" all day long but ultimately if a kid is just skipping practice he won't be very good. He won't know the plays or be in shape and the other kids will. If a kid has to miss because of family and pays his dues and is physically ready to play when the season rolls around then he will play if he is the best. |
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Post by blb on May 22, 2020 15:04:18 GMT -6
You are using an extreme example - the star player who does nothing in Off-Season, and a coach who gives him a starting position on first day of practice anyway. That might make the coach a hypocrite but doesn't diminish value of either Off-Season workouts-camps or the hard work and discipline required when practice starts. Certainly doesn't justify doing away with either in vast majority of HS situations. It is disconcerting how negative and full of hyperbole the vast majority of your posts, apparently based on personal experience, are. jumping the gun are you not? I never said anything about doing away with it all. Seriously? Reread your own last post - "Forget the off season then. Why bother practicing." What else could that mean? Or maybe it was just more of your hyperbole. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 15:29:14 GMT -6
jumping the gun are you not? I never said anything about doing away with it all. Seriously? Reread your own last post - "Forget the off season then. Why bother practicing." What else could that mean? Or maybe it was just more of your hyperbole. and... |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 15:33:16 GMT -6
I know the kids know the pecking order. And there is always a social draw to playin any sport. But if its the players play, the coach really doesnt really believe in discipline. THe. Coach doesnt really believe in hard work or any of the other non sense he is selling. My example was a kid who had to leave the state to live with another parent because his parents were divorced and it was the only time he could see his dad throughout the year and somehow you turn that into not believing in hard work or discipline? I have had this happen at two different schools now. One kid, who is at Harvard now, got all of his make-ups done in one week(he doubled up if you are wondering). The other kid quit after a few days. We can "what if" all day long but ultimately if a kid is just skipping practice he won't be very good. He won't know the plays or be in shape and the other kids will. If a kid has to miss because of family and pays his dues and is physically ready to play when the season rolls around then he will play if he is the best. off topic a little, i went to school with a harvard guy...all ivy league everyting...different cat. Talk about doing whatever coaches and teachers wanted him to do. And much like those teams, tough as raw hide. |
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Post by fantom on May 22, 2020 15:46:21 GMT -6
I wasn't a college coach who could hold a scholarship over a kid's head for his out of season attendance. I was a HS coach who could not make Off-Season activities mandatory (not that I would have if I could), just provide kids with opportunities to as fantom said become the best players they could be. Football is a meritocracy - best players, as demonstrated on the field, play. Forget off season then. Why bother practicing. The message of discipline, hard work still means nothing. Makes the coach a hypocrite. How? The idea of working is to make the team better and to do that the best players play. Sure you give the worker the first crack at the job but if the other guy is clearly better he plays. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 15:54:27 GMT -6
Forget off season then. Why bother practicing. The message of discipline, hard work still means nothing. Makes the coach a hypocrite. How? The idea of working is to make the team better and to do that the best players play. Sure you give the worker the first crack at the job but if the other guy is clearly better he plays. and you just explained, at least in part, why kids dont stick around, come out, numbers are down. It still makes the coach a hypocrite cause ultimately it is not about the cliches. Especially if Talent wins out no matter what. |
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Post by fantom on May 22, 2020 16:25:54 GMT -6
How? The idea of working is to make the team better and to do that the best players play. Sure you give the worker the first crack at the job but if the other guy is clearly better he plays. and you just explained, at least in part, why kids dont stick around, come out, numbers are down. It still makes the coach a hypocrite cause ultimately it is not about the cliches. Especially if Talent wins out no matter what. What's hypocritical, the idea that we'll do whatever is best for the team? We never tell them anything other than that. Kids don't work out to make them the best player at their position on our team. They're trying to get them better than they guys who they're going to play against. The plain fact is sometimes a kid can work as hard as possible, make himself as good as he can be, but somebody else may still be a better football player and give the TEAM a better chance to win. Football is, after all, a team sport. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 17:54:25 GMT -6
and you just explained, at least in part, why kids dont stick around, come out, numbers are down. It still makes the coach a hypocrite cause ultimately it is not about the cliches. Especially if Talent wins out no matter what. What's hypocritical, the idea that we'll do whatever is best for the team? We never tell them anything other than that. Kids don't work out to make them the best player at their position on our team. They're trying to get them better than they guys who they're going to play against. The plain fact is sometimes a kid can work as hard as possible, make himself as good as he can be, but somebody else may still be a better football player and give the TEAM a better chance to win. Football is, after all, a team sport. all is true except the discipline and the team just hit the door. If work ethic means nothing, if it is not rewarded, and by extension, lack of work ethic is rewarded, you lose the team, but future potential players. That is not what is best for the team. And it makes the coach a hypocrite. The coach says all the right things but does not believe or live it out. |
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Post by fantom on May 22, 2020 18:34:28 GMT -6
What's hypocritical, the idea that we'll do whatever is best for the team? We never tell them anything other than that. Kids don't work out to make them the best player at their position on our team. They're trying to get them better than they guys who they're going to play against. The plain fact is sometimes a kid can work as hard as possible, make himself as good as he can be, but somebody else may still be a better football player and give the TEAM a better chance to win. Football is, after all, a team sport. all is true except the discipline and the team just hit the door. If work ethic means nothing, if it is not rewarded, and by extension, lack of work ethic is rewarded, you lose the team, but future potential players. That is not what is best for the team. And it makes the coach a hypocrite. The coach says all the right things but does not believe or live it out. Well, I think that if the kid who's worked his a$$ off to get his 40 down to 5.2 keeps starting and getting toasted I'm pretty sure the kids will wonder why he's still playing. |
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Post by CS on May 22, 2020 18:36:05 GMT -6
What's hypocritical, the idea that we'll do whatever is best for the team? We never tell them anything other than that. Kids don't work out to make them the best player at their position on our team. They're trying to get them better than they guys who they're going to play against. The plain fact is sometimes a kid can work as hard as possible, make himself as good as he can be, but somebody else may still be a better football player and give the TEAM a better chance to win. Football is, after all, a team sport. all is true except the discipline and the team just hit the door. If work ethic means nothing, if it is not rewarded, and by extension, lack of work ethic is rewarded, you lose the team, but future potential players. That is not what is best for the team. And it makes the coach a hypocrite. The coach says all the right things but does not believe or live it out. I'm going to play your part for a moment. What happens when your most hard working, never misses a second, first one there, last one to leave but couldn't play dead in a western kid is in the same position as a kid who would be there but he has been sitting in the hospital with his dying mother and missed a few weeks of summer sessions? By your logic, of discipline and work ethic rewarding, the gangly kid with no athletic ability gets to start all season because, you know, family isn't as important as making your workouts |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 20:07:42 GMT -6
all is true except the discipline and the team just hit the door. If work ethic means nothing, if it is not rewarded, and by extension, lack of work ethic is rewarded, you lose the team, but future potential players. That is not what is best for the team. And it makes the coach a hypocrite. The coach says all the right things but does not believe or live it out. I'm going to play your part for a moment. What happens when your most hard working, never misses a second, first one there, last one to leave but couldn't play dead in a western kid is in the same position as a kid who would be there but he has been sitting in the hospital with his dying mother and missed a few weeks of summer sessions? By your logic, of discipline and work ethic rewarding, the gangly kid with no athletic ability gets to start all season because, you know, family isn't as important as making your workouts exactly. The superstar corner who didnt do a thing take his rightful place on field. Academic ? Ah screw it? Practice? We talkin' about practice? Hell with coaches call this is his team. That works out well. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 20:12:10 GMT -6
all is true except the discipline and the team just hit the door. If work ethic means nothing, if it is not rewarded, and by extension, lack of work ethic is rewarded, you lose the team, but future potential players. That is not what is best for the team. And it makes the coach a hypocrite. The coach says all the right things but does not believe or live it out. Well, I think that if the kid who's worked his a$$ off to get his 40 down to 5.2 keeps starting and getting toasted I'm pretty sure the kids will wonder why he's still playing. that is fine. But then quitting, showing up when its convenient is just as ok. is just as ok by that logic. |
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Post by fantom on May 22, 2020 20:15:12 GMT -6
A few years ago we had a junior tell us that he wanted to play football. Thing is, he was a basketball player first, committed to a D.1 college so he was going to miss a lot of summer work to play AAU. So, we should have benched the kid who made this play in the state championship game? Who the hell would we have been kidding?
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 20:20:04 GMT -6
A few years ago we had a junior tell us that he wanted to play football. Thing is, he was a basketball player first, committed to a D.1 college so he was going to miss a lot of summer work to play AAU. So, we should have benched the kid who made this play in the state championship game? Who the hell would we have been kidding? No. he is working at something. Something legit. That isnt a contradiction to statement of an expectation of a player. |
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Post by CS on May 22, 2020 20:51:03 GMT -6
I'm going to play your part for a moment. What happens when your most hard working, never misses a second, first one there, last one to leave but couldn't play dead in a western kid is in the same position as a kid who would be there but he has been sitting in the hospital with his dying mother and missed a few weeks of summer sessions? By your logic, of discipline and work ethic rewarding, the gangly kid with no athletic ability gets to start all season because, you know, family isn't as important as making your workouts exactly. The superstar corner who didnt do a thing take his rightful place on field. Academic ? Ah screw it? Practice? We talkin' about practice? Hell with coaches call this is his team. That works out well. You make zero sense and i'm not sure that you can |
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Post by larrymoe on May 22, 2020 20:57:38 GMT -6
wow, very tough. This all apply for your stud two-way QB / OLB week of the big rival game? I try to keep it vague. Any rule I put out there that is hardline, i'll have to follow. Attendance = Playtime. Don't attend, playtime gets cut. Leave it at that Yes. We beat a state champion without our stud FB/DT. There's more things important than winning a game. Have standards is up there. |
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Post by larrymoe on May 22, 2020 20:59:31 GMT -6
A few years ago we had a junior tell us that he wanted to play football. Thing is, he was a basketball player first, committed to a D.1 college so he was going to miss a lot of summer work to play AAU. So, we should have benched the kid who made this play in the state championship game? Who the hell would we have been kidding? The run back is OK, but that's not really that earth shattering a play. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2020 12:47:08 GMT -6
I’m guessing there will be a name change/new member soon.
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Post by 60zgo on May 23, 2020 13:46:21 GMT -6
As far regular season: Miss a practice = Miss a quarter.
Offseason/Summer: We use an incentive system for everything. Gear, Jersey Choice, Line order for pregame, leading team out at pep rally, etc. The stuff that is actually important to a lot of kids. Better attendance/performance puts you on a higher tier.
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Post by dubber on May 24, 2020 13:59:37 GMT -6
Peer accountability is the best way to go.
When your kids don’t miss because they don’t want to let their buddies down, your life will be much easier
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