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Post by airraider on Feb 10, 2009 11:39:14 GMT -6
And my friend.. you think this method of passive aggressiveness is any less "deplorable... immature, and indicative of a bigger problem"? You can take 2 hours to break down a post if you want.. but the bottom line.. someone that would degrade another person in this business to the point of questioning their ability as a coach based on some simple knowledge of the way he handled a situation is pretty irresponsible. Sure, he did something stupid.. but it was a judgment call.. one which we all surely have equaled at some point in life.. and most probably in the profession.. I am just glad there wasn't some jerk around to tell us how much we suck at our jobs. Hill Larry... 1. My first response was based on you telling half the story... a story about a kid who quit on his team... a coach who was being forced to honor said quitter, by his administration and booster club... but wait a minute... the kid didn't quit on his team... that was just some LIE concoted by a "friend" of a guy, who was angry at a kid for not wanting to play for him any longer... 2. We need more "jerks" in this world... otherwise people would do whatever they want, simply because they think its the right thing to do, regardless of its effect on others. 3. When in a hole... stop digging man! I fail to see where a LIE has been "concoted"? ... I still dont see your beef with this.. YES he overreacted and SHOULD have gone to the banquet.. but you cant fault the guy for being upset about the kid quiting the team.. and as far as it being me.. hell all of our kids quit until spring football.. then some of them quit during the summer.. and come back during the fall.. and we are TOO poor to even have a banquet.
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Post by brophy on Feb 10, 2009 12:01:14 GMT -6
not for nothing, but I cannot recall a time seeing this in a post and what follows ever amounting to anything productive outside of a cheap, sardonic, biting comment. Point being, this doesn't do anything for a discussion (because all it becomes is an insult) - the next time you look to fire off this contrived comment, just ask what purpose it is truly serving among your colleagues.
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Post by jpdaley25 on Feb 10, 2009 13:41:02 GMT -6
Anyone want a beer?
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Post by phantom on Feb 10, 2009 14:55:44 GMT -6
not for nothing, but I cannot recall a time seeing this in a post and what follows ever amounting to anything productive outside of a cheap, sardonic, biting comment. Point being, this doesn't do anything for a discussion (because all it becomes is an insult) - the next time you look to fire off this contrived comment, just ask what purpose it is truly serving among your colleagues. Thank you. The point of this board is to discuss issues. We don't need arguments and insults. We can get those at school.
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Post by khalfie on Feb 10, 2009 15:35:55 GMT -6
Hill Larry Us! Ooops! My bad... didn't mean to upset the post nazis! Look... Bro, Phantom... any others that may find my post to not be of their standards... I apologize... I promise... I'll do better... I'll post so great you guys will all be proud of me... I'll be the greatest poster to ever post on Coachhuey's site. You'll never have to reprimand me again, for not posting like you guys like it... I promise! Scouts honor! No more cheap, sardonic, biting comments from me... nothing but the facts and issues... Won't even use the cool face... ... or the sarcastic face anymore... Just keep reading... that's all I ask... please, please, please... just keep reading! Oops... My bad!
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Post by phantom on Feb 10, 2009 18:27:00 GMT -6
Hill Larry Us! Ooops! My bad... didn't mean to upset the post nazis! Look... Bro, Phantom... any others that may find my post to not be of their standards... I apologize... I promise... I'll do better... I'll post so great you guys will all be proud of me... I'll be the greatest poster to ever post on Coachhuey's site. You'll never have to reprimand me again, for not posting like you guys like it... I promise! Scouts honor! No more cheap, sardonic, biting comments from me... nothing but the facts and issues... Won't even use the cool face... ... or the sarcastic face anymore... Just keep reading... that's all I ask... please, please, please... just keep reading! Oops... My bad! Thank you for your cooperation in creating an environment in which coaches can discuss issues in a professional manner.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 10, 2009 19:11:39 GMT -6
.. but you cant fault the guy for being upset about the kid quiting the team.. I think this is where many disagree, and thus are strongly expressing their disagreement with your buddy. The ONLY reasons not to play football are : 1) you don't like football 2) you don't want to do the work necessary to be successful. Reasons such as : 1) To work on grades 2) To concentrate on baseball/soccer etc. to get a "scholarship". 3) To work so I can pay for my car (when car is only used to get to school, mall, and parties). all are crappy reasons. This kid had a good reason. I can completely fault the coach in this case.
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Post by airraider on Feb 10, 2009 21:37:13 GMT -6
.. but you cant fault the guy for being upset about the kid quiting the team.. I think this is where many disagree, and thus are strongly expressing their disagreement with your buddy. The ONLY reasons not to play football are : 1) you don't like football 2) you don't want to do the work necessary to be successful. Reasons such as : 1) To work on grades 2) To concentrate on baseball/soccer etc. to get a "scholarship". 3) To work so I can pay for my car (when car is only used to get to school, mall, and parties). all are crappy reasons. This kid had a good reason. I can completely fault the coach in this case. And just what reason do you think the kid gave for quiting? He said, and I quote.. "If I didnt have to do all the off season stuff I would play." How is you are just too lazy to put in the work.. and want to "just play the games" any better of a reason than wanting to get your grades up?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2009 21:41:30 GMT -6
We can debate what's a good reason and a poor reason all we want. In this case, I think there's something to be said for a kid being up front and saying "don't count on me for next year. I won't be there."
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Post by airraider on Feb 10, 2009 22:10:14 GMT -6
We can debate what's a good reason and a poor reason all we want. In this case, I think there's something to be said for a kid being up front and saying "don't count on me for next year. I won't be there." But everyone is assuming the kid was up front.. he is a basketball player.. which ends this week.. so the kid knew he was about to have to get back into the swing of football off season.. he had been rumoring around that he wasnt going to play.. it got back to the head coach.. so he called him in on it.. The kid wasnt exactly a "man" about it.. he didnt coward away or anything.. but he didnt make a decision and then let it be known.. But, none of that really makes much of a difference.. The HC doenst hate the kid.. it wasnt about punishing the kid.. or black balling him.. Just.. if you quit your job in Nov.. its probably not the best thing for you to show up to the Christmas party expecting your bonus.. thats all Im sayin.. ;D
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Post by los on Feb 10, 2009 23:28:45 GMT -6
You know airraider, reading this post made me remember a friend and teammate of mine in HS.....and you know that took some serious brain work for me to remember past yesterday, but anyway....this guy was a good lineman(actually pretty big for back then and very quick.....maybe 6' 210-220)......been playing since middle school....starting rt gd as a junior at the 2nd largest size school back then in NC....then sometime after the season, decided he was thru with sports altogether....let his hair grow long......started hanging out with the "hippies" at school......you know, just pretty much got away from the "athletes" in general.....I still talked to the kid whenever I saw him and tried my best to get him to come back out.....but he'd made up his mind and really didn't let us(his teammates) know why! Now comes the interesting part.....I'm "pretty sure" the coach's were gonna let him come to the football banquet(and these were some real hard a$$ fockers) and most of us guys on the team, while disappointed, still respected the guy for the effort he gave during the hell of pre-season thru the regular season, and would have welcomed him at the banquet......he was good enough and a real asset to the offense/team and probably would have gotten some kind of recognition or award......but the fact is....he didn't wanna come....when he was thru with sports.....he meant he was thru.......I'd see the kid around the next year between classes and stuff.....he was always friendly.....good student.....just never played another second of any sport.....Guess he was "sticking up for what he believed in".....I just never found out exactly what it was.... Anyway.....this post just made me think about that story for some reason?
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Post by touchdownmaker on Feb 11, 2009 5:11:33 GMT -6
I think this is where many disagree, and thus are strongly expressing their disagreement with your buddy. The ONLY reasons not to play football are : 1) you don't like football 2) you don't want to do the work necessary to be successful. Reasons such as : 1) To work on grades 2) To concentrate on baseball/soccer etc. to get a "scholarship". 3) To work so I can pay for my car (when car is only used to get to school, mall, and parties). all are crappy reasons. This kid had a good reason. I can completely fault the coach in this case. And just what reason do you think the kid gave for quiting? He said, and I quote.. "If I didnt have to do all the off season stuff I would play." How is you are just too lazy to put in the work.. and want to "just play the games" any better of a reason than wanting to get your grades up? Thurm- We played without a 64, 220 lb te, a 5-10 240 lb tackle and another big tight end all because they didnt want to do the work required. We took a pretty good hit at those positions. It was not easy but it was setting a precedent. The tackle is coming back this year and has told his friends "if I have to lift, I will lift", the two tightends just flat missed out. (one of them tried to make a mid season walk on but again didnt like my policies) I believe a kid telling you now that hes not going to play if he has to do all of the work is a test, hes testing. He wants to see how serious you are about what you say. Are the workouts really required or are you bluffing? No matter what you have to follow through now. I had a kid sit in the weight room yesterday. Just sat there and refused to lift. he hates lifting. I said to him " if you want to play football at all, even one down, you will lift weights, its not negotiable". He did not lift and instead sulked for a bit. It was at that moment that I wrote him off in my mind. Sad but thats how it is. Are the coachable right now? If not, they when? When I see my weight room filling with young eager hard working kids I know I am doing the right thing even if we have to go young next season. Changing a culture can happen fast, there are casualties sometimes. Usually older kids who werent forced to do it with the previous coaching staff. What I would suggest with your kid whos refusing to do the work is to continue to treat him as a member of the team, get on his case about workouts, keep doing it, even if he says "I am not playing" just keep getting on him and maybe just maybe he will change his tune. I have one of those. Probably one of the best football bodies in the building. Wants to do his own thing "the fitness center workout" or just "training arms" and also "doesnt do august". yeah, thats not going to fly with me. His parents are difficult too, but thats not his fault. I just keep on him, he gets ticked but I refuse to let a youngster run my program.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 11, 2009 5:54:32 GMT -6
I think this is where many disagree, and thus are strongly expressing their disagreement with your buddy. The ONLY reasons not to play football are : 1) you don't like football 2) you don't want to do the work necessary to be successful. Reasons such as : 1) To work on grades 2) To concentrate on baseball/soccer etc. to get a "scholarship". 3) To work so I can pay for my car (when car is only used to get to school, mall, and parties). all are crappy reasons. This kid had a good reason. I can completely fault the coach in this case. And just what reason do you think the kid gave for quiting? He said, and I quote.. "If I didnt have to do all the off season stuff I would play." How is you are just too lazy to put in the work.. and want to "just play the games" any better of a reason than wanting to get your grades up? His reason is #2, which I believe is a perfectly valid reason to not play football. Your christmas bonus analogy is not accurate because it is not "time served" based. I do know several organizations that allow past employees to attend the Christmas parties though... Regardless air, I think you are running out of discussion room here. The facts of the case are simple. 1. Kid played 2008 football season 2. Kid informed coach that he would not be playing 2009 football season. 3. Coach wrongly objects to kid attending banquet for the season in which kid played. 4. Coach makes further poor decisions (and shows poor leadership and mentoring skills, I agree with Khalfie on this one) by then failing to show up and HONOR ALL of his kids because the principal (rightly) backed the kid and parent who want to go to the banquet for the season that the kid participated in. Just based on those facts alone, I would have to side more with Khalfie, and really question this coach's ability to run a first rate program. I mean, these facts present a complete no brainer, and the idea/concept that once you decide to play football it must become a lasting 365 day a year commitment for every single athlete until graduation is silly.
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Post by phantom on Feb 11, 2009 8:32:12 GMT -6
And just what reason do you think the kid gave for quiting? He said, and I quote.. "If I didnt have to do all the off season stuff I would play." How is you are just too lazy to put in the work.. and want to "just play the games" any better of a reason than wanting to get your grades up? His reason is #2, which I believe is a perfectly valid reason to not play football. Your christmas bonus analogy is not accurate because it is not "time served" based. I do know several organizations that allow past employees to attend the Christmas parties though... Regardless air, I think you are running out of discussion room here. The facts of the case are simple. 1. Kid played 2008 football season 2. Kid informed coach that he would not be playing 2009 football season. 3. Coach wrongly objects to kid attending banquet for the season in which kid played. 4. Coach makes further poor decisions (and shows poor leadership and mentoring skills, I agree with Khalfie on this one) by then failing to show up and HONOR ALL of his kids because the principal (rightly) backed the kid and parent who want to go to the banquet for the season that the kid participated in. Just based on those facts alone, I would have to side more with Khalfie, and really question this coach's ability to run a first rate program. I mean, these facts present a complete no brainer, and the idea/concept that once you decide to play football it must become a lasting 365 day a year commitment for every single athlete until graduation is silly. Air, I agree that you're defending the indefensible. Your friend went into a snit when he didn't get administrative support. When you're wrong, though, you can't expect administrative support.
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