soopd
Freshmen Member
Posts: 28
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Post by soopd on Jan 13, 2009 22:01:14 GMT -6
During an intense session of workouts a kid stops working and watches everyone else. The S&C coach stops the drill and tells everyone they are going to continue until everyone is giving their best. The coach starts the session back up and the same kid(who is a starter) stops the drill and watches. ONe of the other assitants tries to motivate this individual to get his butt in gear. The player still refuses to work. The S&C coach stops the drill grabs a seat for the player to sit in so he can take a break while the rest of team continues the drill. The player refused to sit and said F this Sh## and FU to the S&C coach as he is walking out. The HC tells him if he leaves not to ever come back.
The player walked out on his teammates and cursed a coach in front of the team. This same player has walked out every year during the offseason and the HC has let him back on the team.
If this situation happenend to you as a HC what would you do?
If this situation happenend to you as the S&C coach what would you do?
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Post by cmow5 on Jan 13, 2009 22:08:27 GMT -6
If this was a Isolated incident I would try to figure out what was up with this kid, but since you said it is a reoccurring thing the kid would be gone forever and since I dont work in the school I would see what can be done as far as Suspension or In school ot whatever.
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Post by devilsadvocate on Jan 13, 2009 22:23:01 GMT -6
If I'm the HC, that kid is GONZO!! Not only do I not allow him back, I carry it over into a school disciplinary issue. A kid with that much disrespect has issues much greater than I am qualified to handle. It's one thing to lose your temper and do something irrational as a knee jerk reaction, but based on what you described, he was given a reasonable chance to make a decision that could have benefitted him, or at least not hurt him further. He chose insanity.
Every kid is worth saving--BUT--taken to water doesn't always equate to a drinking horse.
If I'm the S&C coach, either that kid goes, or I go. A line has to be drawn. Was there a history of conflict between the two prior to the most recent incident?
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Post by phantom on Jan 13, 2009 22:24:17 GMT -6
During an intense session of workouts a kid stops working and watches everyone else. The S&C coach stops the drill and tells everyone they are going to continue until everyone is giving their best. The coach starts the session back up and the same kid(who is a starter) stops the drill and watches. ONe of the other assitants tries to motivate this individual to get his butt in gear. The player still refuses to work. The S&C coach stops the drill grabs a seat for the player to sit in so he can take a break while the rest of team continues the drill. The player refused to sit and said F this Sh## and FU to the S&C coach as he is walking out. The HC tells him if he leaves not to ever come back. The player walked out on his teammates and cursed a coach in front of the team. This same player has walked out every year during the offseason and the HC has let him back on the team. If this situation happenend to you as a HC what would you do? If this situation happenend to you as the S&C coach what would you do? If I was the HC the kid would be gone. If I was the S&C coach and the kid wasn't gone I'd be gone.
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Post by touchdowng on Jan 13, 2009 22:30:55 GMT -6
Football would be the least of his worries.
He'd never would have gotten past the first F bomb in our program. it would have been addressed and there would have been a consequence with future consequence spelled out very concisely.
If it happened again, a much stronger consequence and depending on the situation, he would need to convince his parents to move in order to continue playing H.S. football because it wouldn't happen at our school.
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Post by jpdaley25 on Jan 14, 2009 6:24:27 GMT -6
Find out what's up with the kid. Something is obviously bothering him. Communicate, punish, 2nd chance. Hey, he may have just lost his grandmother, his best friend may have got knifed the night before, he may have a girl pregnant, he may be taking something, or he just may not want to play anymore and he used that method to quit and still save face with his bros. You won't know until you talk to him. Kids do not know how to handle stresses in their lives and it manifests itself through their behavior. Be a professional. No anger. Find out what's going on. Teach him right from wrong.
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Post by tvt50 on Jan 14, 2009 6:48:09 GMT -6
I would say that the player quit and he is no longer on the team. If you had admin to back you up on this. That is the way to handle it. Heck we had a kid who was just beating his helmet against a locker and would not come out for the 2nd half this year. Made a scene in the locker room so we just told him he was done. The mother called and we told her we could not have behavior like that and told her, he was no longer on the team. AD supported it so it was a closed deal.
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Post by chadp56 on Jan 14, 2009 7:18:31 GMT -6
I doubt I would have him back. With that said, I am trying to figure out ways not to esculate things with kids who have a lot of baggage or emotional problems. Getting him a seat and all that probably wasn't the way to handle it. It would have been better to send him home, tell him he needed to meet with you before he came back. Then you can sit down with him and find out what the heck is going on. However, it sounds like there weren't any cool heads in this case so to quote Confederate Railroad, "when you leave that way you can never go back."
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Jan 14, 2009 7:39:27 GMT -6
Find out what's up with the kid. Something is obviously bothering him. Communicate, punish, 2nd chance. Hey, he may have just lost his grandmother, his best friend may have got knifed the night before, he may have a girl pregnant, he may be taking something, or he just may not want to play anymore and he used that method to quit and still save face with his bros. You won't know until you talk to him. Kids do not know how to handle stresses in their lives and it manifests itself through their behavior. Be a professional. No anger. Find out what's going on. Teach him right from wrong. Although the hard-ass in me says he'd be gone I will say that the above statement is very true and should be considered. BUT... IMO walking out/quitting on us and his teammates is forgivable in certain situations (jp lists some above), but M-F'ing a coach is a death sentence. Meet with AD, Kid, and Parents and let it be known that he crossed the line through defiance and he made the verbal-equivalent of drop kicking the coach in the face. Things are different nowadays (we all know this and need to come to terms with it). I firmly believe that if you hold true to what you believe in, don't give in, and tow the line that the kids will adjust to you. That's part of teaching a kid right from wrong. I don't care what his homelife/socioeconomic status is- mfing an authority figure is not acceptable. You can't go around M-F'ing authority figures like cops, judges, your boss, etc. and expect to get your way. This kid is 1-4 years from technically being an adult- he needs to learn from his mistake. If you give in you are NOT helping this kid at all.
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Post by jpdaley25 on Jan 14, 2009 9:44:05 GMT -6
I agree that it depends on the situation. On the face of it, it sounds like the kid has quit and the program should move on without him. But a lot of young men make mistakes and they don't know how to handle their frustration and anger. Adults do. If it were me I would bring him in and ask why he acted the way he did. I would try to find out if there were extenuating circumstances. I would find out if he still wanted to play football. Then I would tell him what he would have to do to remain on the team - His punishment would be severe and public. The offense took place in public, so the punishment must take place in public. This is necessary to maintain the discipline of the others, and so the player can regain the respect of his teammates. I'm here to help kids and to teach lessons, and I'm not going to let my personal pride get in the way, and I cant teach a lesson to someone who's not there. Again, it depends on the situation. If he's CCT (Cancerous, Certified Terd) and you know it, then let him go and let school discipline handle it. But, if you sense that there might still be some hope for him, talk to him, and give him an opportunity to redeem himself.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 14, 2009 9:54:56 GMT -6
I cant speak for anyone else but I learned that my TEAM is better without any cancers, distractions or energy drainers.
The rest of the team benefits when the coaching staff can focus on the team and not the weak individual who takes all time and effort.
I invite a kid to the weight room, I tell them what to do, if they do not do what I expect I do not invite them back. They can still come out for football but they will be hard pressed to win a spot without the conditioning required. Those that are not in workouts have makeup work to do. Perhaps a "time out" away from the coach and the players peers is just what the young man needs.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 14, 2009 10:44:58 GMT -6
I learn from you. Check your pm.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 14, 2009 10:54:34 GMT -6
During an intense session of workouts a kid stops working and watches everyone else. The S&C coach stops the drill and tells everyone they are going to continue until everyone is giving their best. The coach starts the session back up and the same kid(who is a starter) stops the drill and watches. ONe of the other assitants tries to motivate this individual to get his butt in gear. The player still refuses to work. The S&C coach stops the drill grabs a seat for the player to sit in so he can take a break while the rest of team continues the drill. The player refused to sit and said F this Sh## and FU to the S&C coach as he is walking out. The HC tells him if he leaves not to ever come back. The player walked out on his teammates and cursed a coach in front of the team. This same player has walked out every year during the offseason and the HC has let him back on the team. If this situation happenend to you as a HC what would you do? If this situation happenend to you as the S&C coach what would you do? one thought on this. Any player who quits during a workout, refuses to do as instructed, is disrespectful to authority figures is more than likely to quit when the game gets tough and will do something to attract attention that in the end will result in coach being fired. This needs to be fixed, the young man needs to be disciplined, do it FOR HIM.
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Post by chadp56 on Jan 14, 2009 11:32:18 GMT -6
One other thought, people have to be sure there isn't a medical reason the kid is stopping. It sounds like the kid was o.k. because he had the energy to tell people off, but a lot can be learned from the deaths at Central Florida and other places where what looked like a kid slacking was really a kid on the verge of dying. In the case of UCF, the coaches kept yelling at the kid and that may have contributed to him not stopping and thus dying. Anyhow just something to think about. What we think is going on with the kid and what is actually going can be two different things. It is worth investigating before things escalate. Trust me, I've escalated a lot of things in my time, so I'm not immune to getting caught up in it. www.orlandosentinel.com/community/news/ucf/orl-ucf1108apr11,0,36924.story
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Post by fishon37 on Jan 14, 2009 13:36:44 GMT -6
If they are a fresh or soph they are removed from the offseason class and not allowed to play the next season....after the season they are put back into the off season class(if thats what they want)and have to make it thru the off season class,after school workouts and summer workouts without incident.If they do they are allowed to play again....Jrs would be gone....
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 14, 2009 17:01:28 GMT -6
Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
He gone!!
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Post by los on Jan 14, 2009 20:15:07 GMT -6
Thats a good post jpd25......only thing I'd add (for whats its worth?)......when you're in the business of "pushing" people to their limits, then asking them for more, and pushing even harder.....I'd expect a few "FU's"....."MF's"...."Read between the lines, coach", "middle finger gestures" and other assorted obscenity's murmured under their breath.....comes with the territory to me.....you can make a big deal out of it and escalate it......or stay in control, let things cool off, then get back to work.......since none of us but soopd was there, we don't actually know what the entire story is ......in my experiences, the football boys could be a little testy at times, when you "pushed them hard"......but the "worst" by far was.....my (15-19) "womens softball team", I coached for several seasons..... That was a real love/hate relationship at times....nothing like coaching a bunch of angry women, after you've pushed them to the limit....they'd call me an old f---in....SOB one minute/hug my neck the next, lol! ;D
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Post by coachcb on Jan 14, 2009 20:27:40 GMT -6
If it happened once and is out of character, I'd sit down with the kid an figure out what's going on. I would still find an appropriate punishment for the player, but I'd see if there was a deeper issue.
If it's a reoccurence; HE'S GONE. Not only do I kick him off of the football team, I also pursue disciplinary action within the school. In our case, I'd write up a discipline report and take it down to the player's dean. He'd be in the office the next day, with myself and the administration, explaining who the heck he thinks he is.
If I were the S&C coach and the HC decided to bring the player back after multiple offenses, I'd have my letter of resignation in ASAP.
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Post by bleefb on Jan 14, 2009 22:05:38 GMT -6
In my District (where I work and used to coach) the S & C coach would be called onto the carpet for making the kid sit in the chair, thus embarrassing him in front of his peers. If the S & C coach was an off-campus non-teacher he would be asked to resign. The head coach would be told he needed to apologize to the kid and his parents. The kid would definitely let back on the team, no consequences for his behavior.
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soopd
Freshmen Member
Posts: 28
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Post by soopd on Jan 14, 2009 22:55:17 GMT -6
More history to help clarify the situation for some. The kid is an upcoming Jr. He started last year as a sophmore. He got 3 personal foul penalties and ejected once. Last offseason he walked off the field and took his stuff off because he did not want to do his running. (he weighs about 280) His mom called and the HC let him come back. The year before that the kid walked out during the season because the JV coach made him run due to an incident that happened during a game. He has a history of quitting.
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soopd
Freshmen Member
Posts: 28
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Post by soopd on Jan 14, 2009 22:56:57 GMT -6
Also, all of this took place within the first 10 minutes of work.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 15, 2009 8:59:18 GMT -6
More history to help clarify the situation for some. The kid is an upcoming Jr. He started last year as a sophmore. He got 3 personal foul penalties and ejected once. Last offseason he walked off the field and took his stuff off because he did not want to do his running. (he weighs about 280) His mom called and the HC let him come back. The year before that the kid walked out during the season because the JV coach made him run due to an incident that happened during a game. He has a history of quitting. The personal foul penalties would have been a huge deal for us; chances are he wouldn't have made it to the off season workouts. We had a kid this year who had a terrible temper and collected himself a few personal foul calls. After the second one, we punished him for it in practice. After his third one, we sat him for a couple of games. He wasn't happy about it, but it forced him to think about what he was doing. He decided that football was worth enough for him to control his temper; we didn't have any issues with him when his punishment period was over.
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mce86
Junior Member
Posts: 281
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Post by mce86 on Jan 15, 2009 10:59:05 GMT -6
That player would no longer be a starter. I think that is a big problem is starting kids on talent alone....and the kid always breaks your heart. The other option is to send him home. Work or go home, the choice is yours!
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Post by jpdaley25 on Jan 15, 2009 13:18:26 GMT -6
In light of the new data from SOOPD, I reckon I'd hang up my spurs on that one. He's already had more than a second chance. You do your best to reach them and teach them the right way, and to have the right attitude, but you can't win them all. Sounds like the type that will be lookin through bars before he's 20. It's sad, but the team comes first.
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soopd
Freshmen Member
Posts: 28
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Post by soopd on Mar 10, 2009 22:38:27 GMT -6
An update on the situation.
The kid got to come back with an apology only to the S&C coach (no form of punishment for his actions).
I am the S&C coach and I had a disucussion with the head coach about how I was not happy with the situation. He told me you can not just kick kids off the team for things like that. So I stayed and kept running the offseason program trying to get passed my feelings and was going to let it slide. Then during another intense workout session the same kid takes a knee during one of the drills. His position coach gets on to him and he starts shaking his head no and being a real smarta@*. The head coach kicks him out of the field house and tells him in front of the entire team and staff, "You are done, do not ever try to come back."
I was thinking in the back of my mind that the HC was finally fed up with the kid so I decided I was going to let things slide on the past incident and stay on as a coach. However, 1 week later the kid is back in our offseason drills and in the weightroom. Nobody talked with me about it or anything. I asked the HC about it and he said we are going to give him another chance.
I told the HC that I was not going to work in an environment that lets the kids do whatever they want to when they want to.
I resigned from my position.
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Post by jpdaley25 on Mar 11, 2009 5:16:32 GMT -6
It sounds like your HC doesn't have the nuts to do what needs to be done. I think you did the right thing. Are you moving on to another school?
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mib36
Sophomore Member
Being a male is a matter of birth. Being a man is a matter of choice.
Posts: 238
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Post by mib36 on Mar 11, 2009 7:58:19 GMT -6
God bless you brother. Hope things work out for you in Alabama.
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Post by bluecrazy on Mar 11, 2009 8:04:32 GMT -6
Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya. He gone!! Thanks for the morning laugh ;D
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Post by olinecoach61 on Mar 11, 2009 9:27:10 GMT -6
I think you did the right thing. At least you can sleep at night.
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Post by njlopez on Mar 11, 2009 10:23:14 GMT -6
In the past, I have been a part of teams were this had happened. In those situations the kids have been let back on the teams. At first the kids changed their attitudes, but later in the season we were faced with the same challenges. Now my attitude has changed on this situation not only is he a cancer to your Team, he will end up embarrassing you in the somewhere down the road. Get rid of him ASAP!
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