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Post by jsucoach79 on May 24, 2008 6:31:21 GMT -6
I recently accepted a 5A job and have quite a dilemma. Here is the situation: I have a pure athlete that looked great in the Spring at QB in the spread . Only problem is that he is on the AAU basketball circuit. We can only condition until July 7. Then we have 15 days to practice before we are allowed to put on pads the 1st Monday in August. The kid will be in some big tournament out of town where he will miss the 14th and 15th of July as well as the 21st -30th of July. After looking at last years film ( they were a I pro team) when they placed him in the slot or he returned kicks and punts he made things happen. He would be perfect for this offense, has been playing QB since the age of 7 and has no problems getting the offense down. What do I do? As a head coach/ OC I would lose my mind with my QB gone for that long. I have already explained to him and his folks that he is responsible for the information while he is gone and that he will have to come back and possibly earn the spot back. I doubt anyone will be good enough to hold him off due to his athleticism. However think about all the 7 on7 and timing as well as team building things he will miss while gone. What to do? What to do?
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Post by easye17 on May 24, 2008 11:40:01 GMT -6
We had a similar situation with a WR who was an all-american lacrosse player (and I know WR's are different than QB's). We essentially did what you talked about. We worked and worked with what we had and then told him that he would not just be given the job. Now, he ended up taking a practice or two to get back into the swing of things, but in no time he was running with the 1's again.
There's apparently not much you can do about his AAU commitments, but how good is your backup going to be? If anything, it could improve your back up giving him reps that he may not have seen otherwise.
But I do feel your pain. I'm a new coach this year and the lacrosse program at my school is pretty good and they have a ton of stuff this summer that they have that could pose a big problem.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 24, 2008 12:29:25 GMT -6
This is the "ultimate" difference between H.S. and College/Pro ball. it is quite common in H.S to have players who, no matter their level of dedication (and it might not be there fault, as in this example) they are CLEARLY the better players. While the team policy might be "well they start at the bottom of the depth chart, and 'work' their way up" it is quite obvious that this 'work' will take all of one practice.
I feel for you coach..it is one of the toughest situations...
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Post by mwpilots on May 24, 2008 13:06:47 GMT -6
How would you treat it if he had an injury? Maybe that is how you should look at it. This also gives you a chance to do some real coaching rather than just relying on his athletic gifts. Focus on what you have and who is there and not so much on who is not there.
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Post by touchdowng on May 24, 2008 13:15:53 GMT -6
I've had this type of situation multiple times. Let it play out. I like the fact that you have made it clear that he is responsible to stay up on his assignments and if he's a good kid - he will.
We just use the term, "we'll work our depth" and we sure don't panic during the summer months. Last time I checked, most championships are won in Nov and Dec.
I wouldn't penalize him unless he had to miss some of the official season and then you have to decide his penalty.
With us, if you are not particpating in our practices by the 3rd day, you get to buy a ticket to watch games. This has eliminated some pretty good baseball kids who decided that August tournaments were more important than starting the football season, but you have to draw the line somewhere.
If it's not impeding on your official season, "work on your dept."
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Post by ajreaper on May 24, 2008 21:56:49 GMT -6
As long as he's there when he can be so be it- are you going to essentially run him off or bench him for being an outstanding athlete who plays another sport? As long as he's doing everything he can when he can wish him luck and pray he doesn't get hurt playing b-ball.
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Post by CVBears on May 24, 2008 22:16:51 GMT -6
Is there a compromise that could be worked out? Have you talked to the folks? Does he have to be at every AAU tourney? The worst that can happen is that nothing can be done and your in the same spot (that is as long as you don't push too hard. You don't want the kid to flake out altogether).
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Post by jsucoach79 on May 25, 2008 6:46:45 GMT -6
Is there a compromise that could be worked out? Have you talked to the folks? Does he have to be at every AAU tourney? The worst that can happen is that nothing can be done and your in the same spot (that is as long as you don't push too hard. You don't want the kid to flake out altogether). It's not his parents it is his adviser ( basically) agent that is the problem. The school basketball coach feels the same way about the situation in our brief conversations due to the fact that he says he is considering going on with out him due to having to deal with the adviser guy and his belief that football and AAU are the way for the kid to be seen despite the fact that the school team played for the state title. He says that Nike sponsors the team and that he must be there every game. I have not pushed too hard because basically I had planned on treating the kids like a billion dollars meaning something that I would like to have however I am going to keep doing the best with the few pennies that I have . The kid will be the key. (I have downloaded the game schedule and am expecting the kid to be there everyday that he is not out of town. That means if he gets back late last nigh he still needs to be there the next day. He chose to play both sports so the responsibility is on him.
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Post by jsucoach79 on May 25, 2008 6:48:24 GMT -6
As long as he's there when he can be so be it- are you going to essentially run him off or bench him for being an outstanding athlete who plays another sport? As long as he's doing everything he can when he can wish him luck and pray he doesn't get hurt playing b-ball. That will be the key will he do everything he can. I have to prepare for both cases. The backup can not even run his bath water let alone the qb trap.
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Post by kcbazooka on May 25, 2008 6:55:33 GMT -6
I'm with touchdowng -- work on your depth. What if this kid gets hurt during the season - you better have the back up ready. I know it can be frustrating but you work with the kids you have.
Example, it's only one weekend so its not as traumatic - but our basketball coach has scheduled a basketball camp the same weekend as our conference 7-on-7 tournament. We won't do as good but it will be a learning experience for our kids that are at the tournament. And as somebody else said - championship is won in November - not in a July tournament.
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Post by schultbear74 on May 25, 2008 7:40:52 GMT -6
A friend of mine was up for a job that had two D1 top prospects who would not work out with the team in the summer because their "pimp" (what I call these advisors) advised them and handled all of their workouts. He told them that this was unacceptable and did not get the job. The team wasn't too good last year, but the two top prospects did well. I was just wondering if the post I'm viewing here is a milder version of this.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 25, 2008 9:24:42 GMT -6
Contact the NCAA and inform them of said "advisor" if you feel this guy is not acting in the best interest of the child. Perhaps ..and this is unlikely, but who knows... they can send an emissary to inform the kid of the dangers of latching on to "advisors". OJ mayo ring a bell?
At SOME point...I think that schools are going to start "blackballing" some of these kids, simply because of the baggage.
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kw
Freshmen Member
Posts: 87
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Post by kw on May 25, 2008 10:02:36 GMT -6
Let him be a kid. This is not college he is not under a scholarship. Bottom line.
kw
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Post by coachorr on May 25, 2008 13:16:44 GMT -6
Be a "user- friendly" program. Tough situation, how you outlined your actions is exactly how I think it should be handled. (maybe that is a bad thing if I think you handled it well ) But in all reality, what more can you do, but to support the athlete and create a fair environment for all those involved. As someone mentioned, it will give you a great opportunity to work on your depth should said player get injured. Thanks for the post, I think this is how I will handle this situation when it comes up.
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Post by wingtol on May 25, 2008 16:07:59 GMT -6
When is your 1st official day of practice? If he is there the first day of official practice then no prob if he was missing time during the official season then it could be a problem. We have had kids miss alot of summer work outs for various reasons but when the pads came on they were the best out there and played. We always feel that we are starting over when the pads come on just because it seems like the kids are always back at square one when the pads go on.
I know its a crappy situation and you want him there all summer but like a few other posts have mentioned are you gonna punish him for being a stud athlete? Kids are kids and it sucks that other sports are able to go year round with seemingly no off-season. Look at the Pryor kid he did all that aau stuff and lead his team to a state title and also missed about 5-6 BBall games because of football. I think you have set the rules and he knows he is expected to be there when he is in town. If he is dedicated I am sure he would be at your workouts.
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Post by jsucoach79 on Jun 2, 2008 18:08:35 GMT -6
A friend of mine was up for a job that had two D1 top prospects who would not work out with the team in the summer because their "pimp" (what I call these advisors) advised them and handled all of their workouts. He told them that this was unacceptable and did not get the job. The team wasn't too good last year, but the two top prospects did well. I was just wondering if the post I'm viewing here is a milder version of this. pretty much the same
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Post by jsucoach79 on Jun 2, 2008 18:23:05 GMT -6
It gets more interesting every day. He practiced Mon and Tuesday but missed Thursday because he had a AAU tournament Friday that his "coach"wanted him to rest for. He then missed today and called and said that he played in 4 games in 2 days this weekend and was exhausted. He said that he would like the day after tournaments off so that he can rest because the football and basketball practices are too hard in one day and he wants to get his Rival's ranking up this summer over the AAU circuit. He also will only be able to practice just Tuesday, Wednesday, and maybe Thursday it just depends on what time his AAU team is leaving.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 2, 2008 18:29:53 GMT -6
jsu---Depending on your school policy about summer work outs... I think you might have to consider revoking this kids invitation to be a member of the team. Right now, he seems to be telling YOU what he will and won't do. Who is to say that will change come September? Shake his hand, tell him good luck with the hoops, and you can't wait to see him take it to the rack come December.
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Post by jsucoach79 on Jun 2, 2008 18:53:08 GMT -6
Coach I am leaning that way
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 2, 2008 19:04:03 GMT -6
coach--after further tought perhaps you should schedule a meeting with the principal and AD first..discuss with them..see what THEY say. You don't want to go into a situation where the player and his pimp go to them and bully the administration....and then YOU lose that battle. Then it is completely over.
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Post by jsucoach79 on Jul 8, 2008 16:33:36 GMT -6
When is your 1st official day of practice? If he is there the first day of official practice then no prob if he was missing time during the official season then it could be a problem. We have had kids miss alot of summer work outs for various reasons but when the pads came on they were the best out there and played. We always feel that we are starting over when the pads come on just because it seems like the kids are always back at square one when the pads go on. I know its a crappy situation and you want him there all summer but like a few other posts have mentioned are you gonna punish him for being a stud athlete? Kids are kids and it sucks that other sports are able to go year round with seemingly no off-season. Look at the Pryor kid he did all that aau stuff and lead his team to a state title and also missed about 5-6 BBall games because of football. I think you have set the rules and he knows he is expected to be there when he is in town. If he is dedicated I am sure he would be at your workouts. We are allowed 15 days of zero pads/contact pre practice before the first day of official practice which begins the end of this month. the kid came to conditioning a total of maybe 5 times prior to this and will basically miss the entire pre practice session. He has been in town for at least 3 of the days but says that he does not want to wear himself out for the big AAU tournament that is coming up.
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Post by jsucoach79 on Jul 8, 2008 16:37:20 GMT -6
coach--after further tought perhaps you should schedule a meeting with the principal and AD first..discuss with them..see what THEY say. You don't want to go into a situation where the player and his pimp go to them and bully the administration....and then YOU lose that battle. Then it is completely over. They are in total support of whatever decision I make. I took your advice and talked to them already and they basically said that sense he is not even trying to make a effort to come I should do what I think is best for the team. He his the starting point guard on the bball team and the coach and myself are prepared for the fact that he may transfer and both of us said we will wish him well if he does.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 8, 2008 16:48:11 GMT -6
jsu--I would go ahead, and draft him a letter...have the AD and Principal sign the letter..and go ahead and tell him he is either ON BOARD...or not...and then go from there.
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Post by tog on Jul 8, 2008 17:05:08 GMT -6
luckily aau crap hasn't hit too big down here
make him pay for being gone until he makes up such and such amount of conditioning that the rest of the team does he doesn't get to play
keep the kid out if you set the precedent now that you will not work with those kids you will lose all of them
kids have to work kids have all sorts of things going on nowadays--we find ways to make it work the team understands it isn't always "fair" but hey life isn't either
we just make the expectation that they will make up any conditioning owed before they play in a game
this is conditioning that the players did--plus some extra to make up for the excused absence
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Post by eickst on Jul 8, 2008 17:25:35 GMT -6
What do you do to kids who miss practice for other reasons?
Do you sit them for a quarter or a half?
What do you do when a player misses practice more than once in a week?
Should be the same regardless of the reason practice was missed. A missed practice is a missed practice.
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Post by k on Jul 8, 2008 18:34:23 GMT -6
I just wanted to share the other side of the coin.
We're a co-op right now with only a couple years left on it and had oh about 25 kids from the upcoming freshman clash show up every day this summer... Have 50+ kids showing up daily now. This time last summer we had 10-15 daily...
Our top WR will be a junior. As a freshman he started as our Split and both on the basketball and baseball teams. He didn't attend a single summer workout (or spring practice) either of the last two years because of baseball and basketball. This year he stepped back on both baseball and basketball. He is playing both over the summer but has made football lifting and conditioning his top priority over the summer.
Had another kid turn it around. He'll be a senior this year and he'll prolly start at right tackle. Last year he half assed summer workouts. Made less than half the workouts and didn't put a ton of effort into the ones he made. Hasn't missed a workout this summer.
So two examples of kids who sucked in years past and are now working their butts off over the summer... There is hope.
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Post by eaglemountie on Jul 8, 2008 19:03:12 GMT -6
I understand you position as AAU basketball is big here and a lot of our kids think they are big time basketball players. Problem with these kids is that they lack the ball skills to be big time college basketball players but are so athletic that they would more than excel on the football field.
I personally think that AAU basketball is just another excuse not to lift weights (except for those kids that are being heavily recruited by D-1 schools across the country).
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jul 8, 2008 20:09:06 GMT -6
kick the kid off your team. send him to my team - we have a great basketball program
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Post by jtdunbar on Jul 8, 2008 21:14:46 GMT -6
If you are a new coach,send a message now. We have not had a problem getting our players to workout during the summer but there were a couple of instances early on in my coaching career that we had to lose some very talented players because summer jobs,summer leagues etc. seemed to be more important. We no longer have that problem because the players now understand how important our weight program is. Some of these kids get some pretty sorry advice from outsiders but they must understand what making a committment is about. Cut your losses now and you will be much better off later.
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Post by tog on Jul 8, 2008 22:24:19 GMT -6
If you are a new coach,send a message now. We have not had a problem getting our players to workout during the summer but there were a couple of instances early on in my coaching career that we had to lose some very talented players because summer jobs,summer leagues etc. seemed to be more important. We no longer have that problem because the players now understand how important our weight program is. Some of these kids get some pretty sorry advice from outsiders but they must understand what making a committment is about. Cut your losses now and you will be much better off later. not if you get your teeth kicked in because the other schools have their athletes out for football. get the kids there hold them accountable but this my way or the hiway stuff is cutting your nose off to spite your face in my mind winning breeds more participation and investment by the kids than anything having all the kids salute when you walk in the room but you have no athletes yet is a recipe for disaster I have seen many many old school hardball coaches with these kind of kids lose them to basketball forever---and lose most if not all of the future kids too as the team with few athletes sucked
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