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Post by CS on Jul 19, 2023 17:50:08 GMT -6
I don't get why people are getting worked up. The OP asked for ideas for pre-season testing. If you don't like an idea don't use it. I wasn’t worked up either. Just looking for a simple explanation for the reasoning behind doing it. I can understand why if you won’t see a kid all summer. For example, if a kid has to go and live with another parent. Honestly, I feel that it was a carryover from when nobody had summer training and some people never questioned why they were still doing it. It has the same meaning for me as continuing to do 2 a days. It had a reason at one time but it’s an outdated practice
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Post by CS on Jul 19, 2023 16:54:55 GMT -6
I’m done
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Post by CS on Jul 19, 2023 16:45:18 GMT -6
Didn’t see that. Went back and read it. So you hand out all kinds of things for rewards for showing up but use the testing as motivation for the “knuckleheads.” You said they got a score so what was the score for? Wouldn’t skipping all summer be enough to tell the parents why he wasn’t playing? What happened when someone who didn’t show up all summer got a high score but didn’t play? In my state you couldn't make anything in the off-season mandatory. That means that you can't avoid giving a kid playing time strictly because he didn't work out. So the score meant nothing other than equipment checkout and a shirt? Consequences? Extra conditioning if they didn’t reach a certain score? I’m not saying you tell them you’re holding them out because of not showing up. You could say if Johnny had lifted all summer his body may be stronger which would allow him to compete with the players ahead of him. If you test them and their score is low and they don’t play I can’t understand how that isn’t the exact same thing?
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Post by CS on Jul 19, 2023 16:38:23 GMT -6
I still don’t understand why you call it “voluntary” when it’s clearly not if you’re testing them? The one to two week dead periods before testing week were voluntary. In our Section you can only strength train and condition. Most of us took our vacations then. In our community we felt that we needed to open the weight room for some of the kids. Some needed a place to go for an hour or so, if you met their families you would understand. I’m saying that you can call it voluntary all you want but if there is a fitness test after the dead period then the expectation is for them to come and condition. It would be voluntary if it was 2 weeks dead period and then come back for regular practice with no test or consequences(which in this case the test is actually a consequence). You did them and that’s fine. That’s the way you did things but don’t pretend it’s something it’s not.
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Post by CS on Jul 19, 2023 16:16:50 GMT -6
I gave you two in my first reply this thread. You just refuse to accept them. Didn’t see that. Went back and read it. So you hand out all kinds of things for rewards for showing up but use the testing as motivation for the “knuckleheads.” You said they got a score so what was the score for? Wouldn’t skipping all summer be enough to tell the parents why he wasn’t playing? What happened when someone who didn’t show up all summer got a high score but didn’t play?
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Post by CS on Jul 19, 2023 16:12:18 GMT -6
We tested three times a year. Coinciding with the end of our three 12 week cycles. Generally we tested at the end of the season before we left on Winter break. We tested anyone that was new to our program when we returned. The next test came around Spring Break and usually we bent the schedule to do so right before they left. The third test came the week before we started practice. This was the test you qualified for the award t-shirts and hoodies for certain clubs (800, 900, 1,000, etc.) You also received helmet stickers for certain levels of achievement (all helmet stickers were earned from off season accomplishments). I was the Head Coach for 23 years and kept all the records. We could see the development of our athletes from their freshmen year until their senior year. The other subtle reason we did testing the week before was it got our knuckleheads back into the program. In our Section we had a two then eventually a three week dead period. This was vacation time, etc. We would usually open the weight room but it was true voluntary. "Testing Week" became physical/paperwork week as well as handing out gear so that on Monday we hit the ground running, so to speak. The Strength program was vital to our programs development into a year in and year out contender. The testing held them accountable. It also is competitive and you cannot practice competition enough IMHO. I have been called an idiot and incompetent, but never because of our strength program! Usually those comments came from the stands on Friday nights for running trap on 3rd and 15 I still don’t understand why you call it “voluntary” when it’s clearly not if you’re testing them?
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Post by CS on Jul 19, 2023 15:12:11 GMT -6
No one was punished for showing up. In fact we gave special T-Shirts to kids that achieved at different levels on Bench and Squat. Also those that had perfect attendance at summer workouts (we weren't allowed to have "practices"). Additionally kids that attended most got issued equipment first including choice of jersey number. And nobody "failed" our PFT per se - they just didn't score as well as others. A "reasonable person" might make a case that a coach who didn't test just prior to start of practice was "lazy" (as opposed to incompetent or an idiot). By practices I meant anything you do over the summer. But since you handed out shirts for attendance then you had some expectation for them to show up and condition their bodies all summer. If a kid didn’t show up all or most of the summer then why test him? He will be worse. You know that. Also what if he’s a freak who can sit around and pass the test? He gets to skip while the others have to bust their a$$es? I just can’t understand a reason for it and you still haven’t given me one
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Post by CS on Jul 19, 2023 14:24:45 GMT -6
Who among us would be offended by being labeled an "idiot" or "incompetent"? Ok. Then explain to me why you would need to test kids for strength and/or conditioning if you held practices all summer? If the kids aren’t motivated enough to come to practices with the team they won’t be motivated to do it on their own. So a reasonable person could assume that they aren’t going to complete a test in a way that would be considered “passing.” I look at it more along the lines of punishing everyone else for showing up. So what ever the term applies to the person that can’t put that together on their own then that’s what I meant. Edit: This is also coming from a person that has only been in one program that did testing before fall camp and that was in college for the reason given previously. I’ve never even thought about it until a day ago and came to the realization that it’s not needed
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Post by CS on Jul 19, 2023 14:01:33 GMT -6
Isn’t this an out dated practice anyway? Kids are around all summer now. If you have to test them aren’t you an idiot? With all the posts that have been on here about how to get kids to weight lifting, workouts, etc. - If you think they are around all summer at every school-program, maybe you're the idiot. In any event that comment is over the line. Didn’t mean that directed at anyone in particular just thinking. Also, I doubt there is a program these days that doesn’t hold practices in the summer. If the kids don’t show up then obviously they’re not in shape and weaker as a general rule and I believe everyone can agree to that statement. The whole testing after summer practice was back when there were no schools summer training or for college teams because the players go home with a packet and a conditioning schedule. So in modern high school football if you have to test your players before practice you’re at the least an incompetent coach As a side question…What happens if a kid missed no summer practices and fails? That makes you as the coach look bad. I will apologize if my previous statement offended you
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Post by CS on Jul 19, 2023 13:46:47 GMT -6
Isn’t this an out dated practice anyway? Kids are around all summer now. If you have to test them aren’t you an idiot?
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Post by CS on Jul 17, 2023 14:20:43 GMT -6
The one I saw said 7:07 for a 17 year old male. I haven't found them yet but that sounds about right. That's averaging only 1:47 a lap, not unreasonable especially if one has been training for it at all (as kids in my classes would have been). You think that is "insane"? I’ve never ran a 7 min mile and I was a mid skill player
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Post by CS on Jul 14, 2023 14:35:35 GMT -6
I actually saw this exact situation unfold at a school I coached at in another sport. There was hazing allegations in years prior so he or an assistant took turns making sure the lockerroom was empty before going into the coaches office. Johny wasnt happy he wasnt playing as much and accused the coach of inappropriate behavior, mind you, the coach stood in front of a glass 2 way window that the coaches office could see into the locker room and vice versa, but school board didn't like said coach, he had a losing season and was non-renewed. One of my assistant coaches said "Nobody wants to be accused of being a 'pecker checker'." I’ve never been to a place where the kids even cared if we were in there. Of course, we’re not just sitting in there staring at them like weirdos. We do laundry, clean up, talk to the non nude ones and use the bathroom. It just takes being around to prevent the nonsense
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Post by CS on Jun 22, 2023 15:02:55 GMT -6
I’m looking for a good setup for our weight room. Looking at 2 Loudspeakers with Bluetooth capabilities. Not sure if we go Rockville or spend extra money for JBL or something similar. Any suggestions? Onn party speakers from Walmart. Large ones. &140 a piece with great sound
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Post by CS on Jun 18, 2023 16:48:51 GMT -6
Something else to add in, especially at the pro level, is the emphasis on takeaways. Hard to execute a good form tackle when you're trying to rip the ball out of the runner's hands. And there is a stigma on going full contact in practice now where tackles aren't always finished or guys are tackling wheels. I'm not saying everything should be live all the time but at some point guys need to feel how to finish a tackle We attack the ball and talk about it but also teach them how to secure the tackle AND go for the ball. We’re a good tackling team
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Post by CS on Jun 18, 2023 14:08:26 GMT -6
I like to show them their major formations and what they do out of it on the field. I will make cut ups of there major formations in playlists and share it with them. Fast food way of watching film
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Post by CS on Jun 18, 2023 11:44:24 GMT -6
We practice tackling every day. Not saying we don’t miss tackles but it’s rare
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Post by CS on Jun 17, 2023 10:33:32 GMT -6
The ironic thing, IMO, is that despite hours and hours more of football specific activities in the summer, fundamentals are far worse than ever before. I feel like it’s the era of scheme over substance. I know scheme over fundamentals have always been a problem but with social media there are so many scheme whores out there with a ton of people peddling the next big thing for money. Also you have people posting a ton of obscure drills they do with no context. A lot of guys can’t put a coherent scheme together with drills to actually get the kids better at the tasks they will have to do within the scheme So they throw all these “cool” drills together that have no substance and no real application within the scheme that is being ran.
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Post by CS on Jun 16, 2023 17:39:19 GMT -6
Yes, but I think this situation is different in that the crazy parent probably isn't worried about 10 years in the future. They are just worried about instagram followers and social media dollars in the present. Which is essentially just exploiting his son. Agreed. The sad thing is that the kid will probably make a decent amount of money through social media “influencing” but judging by his dad that money will be squandered instead of going to the kids future
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Post by CS on Jun 12, 2023 14:17:35 GMT -6
Explain to me how anyone can have a real offer without papers signed anyway
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Post by CS on Jun 11, 2023 6:44:49 GMT -6
Keep in mind that some of those pages are fluff. Philosophies, mottos, etc. Many pages are just the same thing drawn up against multiple variations. Even cutting out the fluff, that's still a lot of chit, man. And to some extent that's true on the variations, but it's still gotta be learned and re-taught/rehashed until it becomes second nature if you want the players to be good at it... Because that 2:30 hour practice you have to split with the offense and sp teams in high school gets cut down to just having to split it with sp teams and you get a full 2 hrs to teach your defense to the players If I had 2 hrs and a meeting to teach we could do a ton more on defense Also if you can hold a scholly over someone’s head they will study the playbook
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Post by CS on Jun 10, 2023 19:29:22 GMT -6
You’re comparing apples to oranges. I find it difficult to understand how you could make that argument. Ncaa has time restrictions for practicing Then just how exactly are those 500+ page offensive or defensive install packets getting taught and rehashed/revisited until they become second nature for the players? What are the weekly time restrictions in the summer on teaching meeting time, lifting, and on-field practice (contact and limited/non-contact)? Why does that mean HS players can't come in for 6 hours a day M-Thu or M-F during the summer, assuming the HS players are bought in and willing to? If the players aren't willing to, then sure, but if they are willing to, why not? Cause they’re kids. Let them have the summer
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Post by CS on Jun 10, 2023 17:47:57 GMT -6
Until someone with authority has the guts to rein them in, then what will stop them. Remember, a lot of the coaches who are doing this believe that 20+ hours a week throughout summer is not surpassing the point of negative returns. I imagine most of them would argue that 20 hours (or whatever they do) is the sweet spot, but I imagine that stems from their background, and coming from a situation where having done less at one point was attached to a losing season. Which leads me to wonder, what will the next generation of coaches do? Maybe a decade from now 30 hours a week in the summer will become the norm? I wonder if we were to isolate coaches in a natural state, and they were to look at the information from the outside vantage point with no biases, what would they view as the optimal amount of practice time? RE: The 30 hours a week thing in the future, to play the opposite side of this, why not? College and pro players spend all day in either teaching/install/meeting time, practicing, or lifting. If an 18 year old college player can be expected to do that, why cant a HS coach expect that from a 17 or 18 year old HS player? Bring them in at 7 or 8 in the morning, and have them doing something football related for 6 hours a day, M-T or M-F during the summer. If 18 year old college players supposedly don't get burned out on that and have the attention span to be in meetings all day to memorize and retain 500+ page offensive/defensive install packets, don't see why a 17 or 18 year old HS player would get burned out? (Again, playing the other side of this, and being at least slightly facetious...) You’re comparing apples to oranges. I find it difficult to understand how you could make that argument. Ncaa has time restrictions for practicing and nfl players are being paid a lot of money
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Post by CS on Jun 9, 2023 22:55:17 GMT -6
fantom speaks truth. If you have to keep up with the Jones to win, then you do. The after thought is do you HAVE TO. There’s a balance IMO. Doing things just because others are is not guaranteeing success but taking a bunch of time off to be contrarian isn’t either. The 5 game COVID season in California taught me a lot about our program. We went 1-4 and got killed by teams we usually beat. I’m a believer that it was largely due to limited workout and practice time. Didn’t they have the same limitations?
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Post by CS on Jun 8, 2023 19:07:51 GMT -6
6-10 AM Mon-Thur. Our HC places a lot of importance on winning 7 on 7 tournaments… {censored}. That. Agreed
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Post by CS on Jun 8, 2023 19:06:34 GMT -6
Just saw this in the local paper last night about the summer practices starting. xxxxx will have summer practices every Monday through Friday from 5-8 p.m. The players will work on agility drills, lift weights and go over the installation of both the offense and defense. Thoughts? I have mine because that's a school I very familiar with so I'm very biased. They had 28 players, Fr to Sr at the first practice. I’ve been at a place that was 4 hrs a day Monday through Thursday. I didn’t mind but I felt like we burned the kids out.
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Post by CS on Jun 6, 2023 11:48:18 GMT -6
Why not call instead? I always just call the school to get in touch
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Post by CS on Jun 2, 2023 5:58:20 GMT -6
I get the usefulness of it as a tool, but I really enjoy being a human. As fas using it to find answers during the game, I am skeptical about the actual effectiveness. It feels like buying a system as a quick fix instead of learning how to actually coach kids to execute it. Seems like the best time to ask would be in game planning and then have time to implement the answers, but still I like the personal nature of coaching. I like digging for answers to solve the puzzle and I like the challenge of getting kids to be able to execute those answers. As far as using it as a communication tool, I also see the effectiveness but it’s so generic it certainly can’t match tone or voice of an individual. Kids are using it to cheat and class and it has made it harder to prove but not catch. Used to theyd copy from some website so you could Google a full sentence of an essay and the site would pop right up that they copied from. Can’t do that with ChatGPT. But once you read the essay it’s flawless in punctuation and uses a noticeable different verbiage than the individuals. I don’t mind it in either scenario as a means to start gathering information but to find full and final answers I don’t think it can do that…yet. Back to football. If a team is killing you with power, I would hope as a coach you were expecting to see it and already had your adjustments ready and repped. You can copy and paste into chatgpt and it will tell you if it wrote it
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Post by CS on Jun 2, 2023 3:43:11 GMT -6
I used it to write an email to a parent earlier this year. That was convenient
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Post by CS on Jun 1, 2023 13:49:59 GMT -6
We no longer meet on the weekends. I assign a coach to do laundry(usually myself). We make cut ups via Hudl and text each other. Won the most games I have ever won as a HC this year. You obviously don’t love the game and aren’t doing right by the kids. Probably should hang up your whistle
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Post by CS on Jun 1, 2023 4:02:20 GMT -6
This thread being 5 pages now is proof of the prime effect. This year we may not see it but the national exposer alone will help him recruit better players whether he’s “fit” or not is irrelevant IMO.
Who the he!! Gave a sh!t about Colorado before he was hired?
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