|
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 13, 2007 11:48:45 GMT -6
From reading the "level of coaching" thread, it seems that a majority, if not a VAST majority of those coaching the sport, are teaching simply to coach.
Just wondering if it would be better if football was taken out of the schools all together, and have it become a club sport.
|
|
gcarter
Probationary Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by gcarter on Dec 13, 2007 12:06:05 GMT -6
You would probably have some Administrators agree with you. I think there are many educational benefits gained from playing football, I think more than many other sports. It's my understanding that the service academies require their students to be involved in some type of sport (varsity or intramural). Leadership, Perseverence, Work Ethic, Teamwork all pretty important qualities that I think most communities want engrained in their youth. Football teaches all.
|
|
|
Post by tribepride on Dec 13, 2007 12:06:52 GMT -6
Does it matter what your motivation is for teaching? i.e. coaching, hours, time off, love of the kids, love of the subject matter, etc. I believe that if you do an honest job teaching that it really doesn't matter what your motivation may be.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 13, 2007 12:09:03 GMT -6
gcarter...I agree with you on that...I am just saying, it seems like most of the "leaders" don't want anything to do with teaching, and in our society, we have deemed that working full time on H.S. football is not worth a living wage for 7-10 men. (I would agree with that assessment).
Why must those educational benefits be gained within the school setting? Are they somehow lessened if done outside the school setting?
|
|
|
Post by airman on Dec 13, 2007 12:11:25 GMT -6
i have no problem with this as long as all extra curriculars go then to. this includes year book, debate, marching band. we should also eliminate woman teachers as many woman like teaching just so they can have summers off to be wtih their kids and the great health insurance.
WE have a librarian who thinks this way. funny thing is, he is always last to come and first to leave when it come to the school day.
|
|
|
Post by tothehouse on Dec 13, 2007 12:14:15 GMT -6
Why does a coach that wants to get hired at our place have to show more interest in teaching than coaching?
If some fired up coach that has a teaching credential comes in to interview for a social studies job, let's say, he is guided to show way more interest in the social studies position than the teaching position. Is this right?
People say a good coach is a good teacher. Why should you have to show more interest in one than the other?
|
|
|
Post by Coach Goodnight on Dec 13, 2007 12:15:16 GMT -6
The school where I teach does not have an athletic period. They do have electives where the kids can "choose" PE but most dont. So all athletics end up happening either before or after school and the "School day" is meant for instruction time.
|
|
|
Post by struceri on Dec 13, 2007 12:21:17 GMT -6
we have no athletic periods either and all practice time is in the morning before school or after school.
|
|
|
Post by lochness on Dec 13, 2007 12:23:08 GMT -6
With the exepction of my typing class, I learned more from Football than I did from all my other High School experiences combined.
|
|
|
Post by CoachMikeJudy on Dec 13, 2007 12:23:47 GMT -6
Who cares why you teach as long as you get your job done?
If you don't like teaching you probably will:
1) Do a poor job and (if you work in a good district) get fired
2) Find another profession- teaching will wear you out if you don't have a passion for it...
Question- Schools fund the program with tax dollars- so if it got switched to a club sport, who exactly would fund the programs? How many less programs would we have? Think of all the great players that came from nothing and how football helped them survive to adult hood...
|
|
|
Post by brophy on Dec 13, 2007 12:29:25 GMT -6
If it becomes a club sport, now wouldn't it come down to who has the largest sponsorship / payroll, because now you are just going to have a bunch of volunteers or you'll have a collection of the cream of the crop coaches (because you're paying them).
Does athletics improve the student experience? Does athletics impact the school's reputation? Does athletics affect the bottom line of a school district budget?
I don't see where the answers to those questions would be "no", precipitating a change in moving to a club milieu.
In regards to football, are you packing 3,000+ in the stands on Friday night and selling concessions to listen to the English department recite Thoreau?
MONEY is what it always boils down to, and there is no larger draw in HS or College, than the football program
I would assume Teacher/Coaches get geeked up for their sport (basketball/volleyball/golf) are that way because they have an interest in it and it provides them a true opportunity to control the curriculum (which may not be the case in the classroom).
But then again, I'm not a teacher.
Where I was at a few years ago, several community leaders wanted to make Jr High ball a club sport. Great concept, but if you did that you would probably eliminate 80% of our starters because they couldn't afford it.
If kids aren't required to meet academic standards to stay eligible, do those 'borderline' kids lose motivation and give up? Does your school now become "at-risk" because of the failure rates?
Sometimes, kids need football more than football needs them.
Should we eliminate the Spanish Club as well? What about band?
|
|
|
Post by superpower on Dec 13, 2007 12:32:00 GMT -6
At many schools football ends up funding other activities, so I don't think most schools could afford to cut their fb programs.
|
|
|
Post by Coach Goodnight on Dec 13, 2007 12:35:51 GMT -6
Does athletics improve the student experience? I would have to say that for some it would be yes, because it is the only outlet they have as far as a positive experience in life, someone telling them they did a good job and patting them on the back. It gives them a sense of belonging that they may not have had otherwise because I am sure they wouldnt be a part of band, academics team, etc.... It is their chance to get away from all of the sh!tty happenings in their lives.
|
|
|
Post by Yash on Dec 13, 2007 12:36:04 GMT -6
If you are saying that football coaches are just teaching to get the coaching job I think you need to look deeper into the make up of schools. There are way more teachers who are just teaching for a paycheck than coaches teaching just for a coaching job. How many teachers can you think of who throw notes on an overhead, and hand out a quiz without ever actually teaching a single lesson. Now the kids are going to get way better life lessons from a quality football coach than a history teacher who just throws notes up and quizzes you without ever going into the reasoning behind history and how it applies to todays world. So I think overall coaches in the teaching atmosphere can have a bigger impact on childrens lives than some of those other teachers we all remember that were only there because they got pay checks. Also if a kid stays involved in school because of sports, and it helps keep them out of trouble, I think it serves a purpose.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 13, 2007 12:38:42 GMT -6
whitemike...recreational programs could receive the funding rather than. Lochness--I would say that was an extremely ignorant statement. Facts are not knowledge, thought process, hidden curriculums..all are probably more beneficial than the lower levels of blooms taxonomy, which is where most H.S. classes operate (Meaning you learned...you just didnt realize you were learning)
airman, I would say many other of the extra curriculars would need the school setting to survive. your response comes off as "HEY, i like my situation..don't rock my boat". Which is ok, but is it really examining a situation?
|
|
|
Post by k on Dec 13, 2007 13:01:55 GMT -6
From reading the "level of coaching" thread, it seems that a majority, if not a VAST majority of those coaching the sport, are teaching simply to coach. I'm a teacher. I love teaching my discipline and love teaching football. I'd be a teacher without being a coach so I may be biased here. But why do schools force the coaches to be in the building? Our HC isn't a teacher and it works out fine. I wouldn't want it taken out of the schools because of how much sports help the students to stick to what is important. Make it like Legion baseball or whatever and you've just killed the carrot and the stick for kids to do well in the classroom. I've got kids in my classes who ONLY passed because they wanted to play ball.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 13, 2007 13:17:30 GMT -6
Just to be clear, I am not arguing one way or the other, just trying to look outside the paradigm.
|
|
|
Post by tog on Dec 13, 2007 13:36:06 GMT -6
hell no
I answered the question about the level of football like this
wherever I could do football full time.
I mean it.
Coaching is teaching and teaching is coaching but.
in the classroom they have added so many ticky tack rules and just plain junk to a teacher's duty it is ridiculous.
if they would just let me be with the kids and teach them the subject, trust that i am a good man with integrity that will bust my tail on it just like i do in football then it wouldn't be an issue
even then i would still prefer to do straight football is it realistic? no
but someone asked i just like football more i think it teaches more about life than anything else out there USABLE stuff about life
|
|
|
Post by mnpasso on Dec 13, 2007 14:12:06 GMT -6
This is simply a broad generalization with a negative inference which is then used to theorize about the place and status of high school football. I don't see any benefit of casting a "vast" majority of teacher who coach into such a mold.
|
|
|
Post by Coach Goodnight on Dec 13, 2007 14:15:29 GMT -6
If you think about it, most of the coaches nowadays are dang good teachers, both on the field and in the classroom as well.
|
|
|
Post by coachcalande on Dec 13, 2007 14:31:39 GMT -6
In my high and mighty opinion I think anyone who gets hired to coach SHOULD BE good enough to teach in a district as well. I think teachers and coaches SHOULD BE held to the same standards when it comes to how they teach and treat players (STUDENT athletes)= now, that said there would be some real pluses to coaching a club team and some negatives too.
On the schools side, one has to identify the PURPOSE of a school sport..money? thats part of it, but providing a complete education is really what its all about.
anyhow, I say no...football should not be removed from the schools and I say no, college athletes should not be paid ...(that one really irks me for some reason)- just an opinion which is mostly uneducated.
|
|
MaineManiac
Junior Member
What you see depends on what you're looking for.
Posts: 311
|
Post by MaineManiac on Dec 13, 2007 15:33:00 GMT -6
Balance!
We have a teacher who was just named to our State's Teaching Hall of Fame and also is a vital member of the football staff. Why is it that one can't evenly distribute the time and energy they have in the day between football and teaching? Given, maybe an English teacher who has hundreds of papers to grade might not be the best candidate to be an OC or DC, but there is value to the football staff. In our program some of our best teachers are in some way involved with the football staff. It goes a long way when you need academic support to keep our athletes eligible for participation.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 13, 2007 15:43:17 GMT -6
BEFORE this gets way off tangent...
This thread was NOT created to be a "coaches slacking on teaching threads" and by saying that many are teaching to coach does not insinuate that they are not quality teachers.
The point was...since many of the replies on that "level of coaching thread" seemed to aim that the given their druthers, most of the coaches that replied (obviously not a scientific sample) would rather coaching job's without teaching.
|
|
|
Post by tog on Dec 13, 2007 15:53:55 GMT -6
given their druthers, most of the coaches that replied (obviously not a scientific sample) would rather coaching job's without teaching. this and taking football out of schools does not compute to me hell half the old teachers I have been around don't even like kids and treat them as trash, call them trash--and look what we produce football and athletics in general is one of the true things that is holding this country together in my opinion we are about the only group that holds kids truly accountable for their actions anymore
|
|
|
Post by coachcalande on Dec 13, 2007 16:26:01 GMT -6
good point Tog - In my experience MOST of my collegues are nice people. I think MOST of them have the kids best interest at heart, however, there are sometimes people who are simply FRIED and can no longer "do right by the kids"...its time for them to move on from teaching.
I also think teachers, like a parent, can have good days and bad days.
|
|
|
Post by lionhart on Dec 13, 2007 18:02:28 GMT -6
i dont think you have to be "in love" with your job to be effective. yes, some guys teach just to coach, and i might be one of them. but i dont see the problem. if you are qualified, do your job up to the district standards, and come to work every day.... who cares if you "love it"? does everyone on the trading floor on wall street "love" their job? i dont think so. a wise man said to me once that if you find a job that youre good at, AND you enjoy it... you should consider yourself a lucky man.
|
|
|
Post by tog on Dec 13, 2007 18:04:07 GMT -6
I love teaching I just don't love all the bs that goes with it
|
|
|
Post by coache67 on Dec 13, 2007 19:03:58 GMT -6
A school without football is in danger of deteriorating into a medieval study hall. -Vince Lombardi
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 13, 2007 19:09:22 GMT -6
tog--yes, I agree..the profession is becoming less and less desirable as accountability standards set by people with no concept of how to evaluate them continue to roll in.
Just thinking of a different paradigm. Other than "thats how it has been for 150 years", is there any reason for it? The knee jerk response is to spout off all of the values and such that athletics are supposed to bring to the table.
However, while watching a recent PBS special on college athletics (Amherst was one of the schools profiled) some interesting points of view were presented. One of the most interesting counter arguments was that at the college level, all of those values that college sports is supposed to develop, is already deeply ingrained in the athletes because that is what got them there. Not just football, which is a H.S sport...but sports such as Volleyball/Basketball/Soccer/Baseball (which are all probably 50-50 or 60-40 H.S /Club) and more importantly sports such as swimming, tennis, golf, gymnastics.... which are nearly 100% club.
Does anyone else know how athletics are handled in other parts of the world?
|
|
|
Post by groundchuck on Dec 13, 2007 19:09:57 GMT -6
I love teaching I just don't love all the bs that goes with it WORD my Brotha! That is such a true statement. And more and more BS gets added every year.
|
|