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Post by silkyice on Jun 26, 2018 13:26:30 GMT -6
We've really bought into the idea of "minimum effective dose" with our guys and are selling it everyday. I do think a lot of old school guys would rather lose than be outworked. Love it!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 13:52:06 GMT -6
Inner City Program:
A lot of kids do work summer jobs, I make sure to give them a schedule months in advance so that they can try to get their schedule worked out beforehand.
In the month of June, we averaged 22 kids per day. We had 34 individuals show up at least once, and we had 15 individuals with 0 or 1 absences (this includes excused absences). During the month of June, we would go Tuesday and Thursday, 2pm to 5pm, to make sure that students that required summer school could attend. We would lift weights from 2pm to 3:15pm, then we would travel to the city park that we practice in. At 3:45 we would start speed and agility work, then from 4:15 to 4:45 we would do our football position based work.
In the month of July, we will ramp it is up a little bit. We will go Monday-Thursday, 9am to 12pm. Monday and Wednesday is all day on the field, nice and slow paced, really taking the time to teach. Tuesday and Thursday we will lift first, and then we will have a faster paced practice.
So really, who the hell wants to spend the amount of time that a college program spends on football? The kids dont, the coaches dont. Say it with me; "less is more, less is more, less is more..."
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Post by wiscoach on Jun 26, 2018 13:58:18 GMT -6
We go 3 times a week for 1.5 hours. Just lifting speed and agility.
We only get 5 days in the off-season to coach actual football in the off-season. (WI)
We've been mildly successful. 3 conference championships in 8 years, 4 playoff births.
Last year we had a kid come out for football who probably won 2 games on his own for us. Started both ways. 2 way all conference. Didn't do a lick until showing up Aug 1. We could have spent 20 hours a day with his backups and we would have still lost those other games.
It's such a talent dependant game, I can't see getting anything out of 4 hours at a time except a bunch of kids that quit listening 2 hours ago.
Its small school ball, too. (28ish 9-12)Some years we could line up and run fullback dive every play all season and go 7-2.
Some years we could facemelter option 6 different guys every game,install every rpo known to man, and still go 0-9.
Im at the point where my personal barometer for success is "did we win the close games?"
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Post by cbnindian on Jun 26, 2018 18:18:53 GMT -6
To each his own but I don’t want a kid who is out there for the fun of it. I want the kids who are going to have fun at it. We coaches need to make it fun. We don’t necessarily grind but we do get our kids on Tue, Wed and Thur from 8-12 in the morning. We get the kids in the weight room then speed and agility work and then football specific. We coach them hard but don’t kill them.
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Post by fantom on Jun 26, 2018 18:58:24 GMT -6
To each his own but I don’t want a kid who is out there for the fun of it. I want the kids who are going to have fun at it. We coaches need to make it fun. We don’t necessarily grind but we do get our kids on Tue, Wed and Thur from 8-12 in the morning. We get the kids in the weight room then speed and agility work and then football specific. We coach them hard but don’t kill them. If it isn't for fun why would a kid come out to play a game?
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Post by wiscohscoach on Jun 26, 2018 20:01:54 GMT -6
To each his own but I don’t want a kid who is out there for the fun of it. I want the kids who are going to have fun at it. We coaches need to make it fun. We don’t necessarily grind but we do get our kids on Tue, Wed and Thur from 8-12 in the morning. We get the kids in the weight room then speed and agility work and then football specific. We coach them hard but don’t kill them. This in your first sentence lies the problem. Football is a freaking game. Games are meant to be fun. If a kid is not out there to have fun and for the fun of it, then what the heck are we all doing?
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Post by coachdubyah on Jun 26, 2018 20:28:24 GMT -6
To each his own but I don’t want a kid who is out there for the fun of it. I want the kids who are going to have fun at it. We coaches need to make it fun. We don’t necessarily grind but we do get our kids on Tue, Wed and Thur from 8-12 in the morning. We get the kids in the weight room then speed and agility work and then football specific. We coach them hard but don’t kill them. This in your first sentence lies the problem. Football is a freaking game. Games are meant to be fun. If a kid is not out there to have fun and for the fun of it, then what the heck are we all doing? In 2012, I went into a rebuilding project as an Asst. The biggest mistake I made was going in there "Guns Blazin" dropping the hammer on all the kids, coaching for the wrong reasons, talked about winning, too abrasive if a kid "really was there just to hang out", talked about #TheGrind, etc... I was a bad coach, thought I had all the answers. We won 5 games that year, 1 the next, 4 after that, and I was miserable...Biggest mistake of my career. But, I learned from it. I'm much more mile-mannered now and I just flat out have fun when I'm out there. Long story short, I'm just me now. I'm also a 1st year HC now(crap changes when you're in the big chair guys). I still have to a lot to learn, but I'm at peace with the fact that I make it a point to have fun with the kids everyday while being efficient and getting stuff done. I say all that to say this, IT IS JUST A GAME and don't take yourself too seriously.
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Post by Yash on Jun 26, 2018 21:00:46 GMT -6
Is #GrindSeason killing basketball or baseball too? I think numbers are declining because football is difficult and it isn't easy to be successful. Football is dependent on strength speed and getting 11 players to do it right. When a program is down there is no one stud player that can change the whole season. Basketball and baseball can count on a small number of players and be successful. A football team can't have one star. Football teams can't win by scoring 1 run. A "game winner" in football needs either a successful series of plays, pass protection a good throw, a good catch, or some collection of events to work. A "game winner" in basketball could merely need an inbound and a quick flick of the wrist. I am not downgrading other sports, but summer basketball and baseball do just as much or more than a one or two hour work out 3 or 4 days a week. I don't work kids to death, but the kids that roll up in August and haven't done anything or tried to be a part of the team can just stay away. I am not #GrindSeason, but I am about kids who care. August guys don't give a rat's ass. Go have fun shooting the ball while we build around a group of dependable young men who have a goal of committing and being successful. No disrespect to your post, but weight lifting is important to being good at football and preventing injuries. It isn't unjust to ask kids to better themselves and their team. Kids play basketball and baseball all summer. My post was saying the kids who you are missing are the ones that traditionally did it for fun. If you want to successfully play football this day and age, it’s a year round sport, that you play no less than 10 games in. Football is difficult yes. Weights and conditioning make you better yes. But the most difficult part of football to the kids is all the time spent when a game is so far away. To prove my point to you. If your first day of football was the first day of school. Would you have more players on your team? I think the first day of school question is relevant for the lower levels. I think if we started football later our numbers would go up at lower levels, which potentially would increase the numbers as those kids got to varsity. The kids who show up 2 games into the season and want to play that aren't freshmen or sophomores rarely help you. I don't want unlimited contact or practices all season long. I only want my kids lifting 3-4 days a week. There has to be commitment to a team. Its not a sport you can just show up and play without the preparation of the off season.
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Post by carookie on Jun 26, 2018 21:01:35 GMT -6
To each his own but I don’t want a kid who is out there for the fun of it. I want the kids who are going to have fun at it. We coaches need to make it fun. We don’t necessarily grind but we do get our kids on Tue, Wed and Thur from 8-12 in the morning. We get the kids in the weight room then speed and agility work and then football specific. We coach them hard but don’t kill them. I get what you are writing, but in the end, you still only went 12 hours a week. I think this is aimed more at coaches who are doubling that, and then getting frustrated at the kids who only make it half the time.
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Post by hunhdisciple on Jun 26, 2018 21:09:45 GMT -6
Way too many people simply waste time just to inflate their ego. They'll take 2 hours or actual work, stretch it into 6+ and then brag about it.
And it sounds good. Because it sounds like you're super committed. And you don't win rings unless you're committed. And everybody wants rings.
And it's all bull. 100% bull.
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Post by 54695469 on Jun 26, 2018 22:20:55 GMT -6
Way too many people simply waste time just to inflate their ego. They'll take 2 hours or actual work, stretch it into 6+ and then brag about it. And it sounds good. Because it sounds like you're super committed. And you don't win rings unless you're committed. And everybody wants rings. And it's all bull. 100% bull. Excellent post! Totally agree!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 3:21:53 GMT -6
I have been thinking about this awhile. I graduated high school when the Grind season was beginning to start catching attention. It seems coaches have fallen into this as well. If you dont spend 18 hours a week in the summer at the field house, than you are not a committed coach. I have seen numerous threads talking about various things i'll mention in this thread. First, there was a thread months maybe years back talking about the declining numbers in football. I am currently coaching at a school where the numbers are in the lower 20s, and in the 80s and 90s they would be in the upper 30s to lower 40s. I am about to say something that either everybody wants to say, or nobody wants to hear. Most Summer workouts and Summer activities are killing off the classic football roster. Used to, kids would be able to show up for fall camp two weeks before school and be able to play. Kids would be able to be recruited to play during the first days of school. Kids played because it was something to do. Kids played because it was fun. Now, it has turned into a summer job for players. How many kids on your teams work the traditional summer jobs? Construction, Farms, etc. Talked to a coach today at a large school who said only 20% of their players even have part time jobs. The reason the numbers are declining is the kids who would play for fun are now being kicked off or bad mouthed by coaching staff. Today, if a kid chooses not to make football his life for four years, he's wasting his potential, or he is lazy. These are the players who do not play anymore. The number one thing I hear from a quitting football player is "I just want to focus on *insert sport here*". They say this because they were playing football out of boredom. Something to do in the fall. But since you want to spend 2-4 hours a day everyday in the summer, it is no longer worth it to those type of players to play. Thus, killing the large roster size, and the "every boy in the school plays football" era. Long story short, if a Kid is unwilling to make football his summer job, he doesnt play football anymore. I understand everyone is doing it, which makes you have to out work them or keep up with them to be successful, but at some point, you have to remind yourself that we are turning a generation from football. I think we have gone to far, and long for the time where kids were able to be kids, and football at this level was a sport and not a year round job. The reason numbers are is not #grindseason. Its the adults. We cannot ask to show for 25 work outs over the summer and 80 pct.of the staff can't be found. Or only shows up for 10 workouts. Kids will look at you sideways. You cannot demand kids show up on time then start the meeting whenever it convenes you or have staff members walk in late. Cannot claim family as a reason to leave the office then ask parents to schedule events around your practices. The kids can see the non sense and double standard. They will in kind tell you where to go. Its not the kids that are the problem.
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Post by jlenwood on Jun 27, 2018 5:00:02 GMT -6
Who's gonna be the first to implement this "new fangled" way of thinking? Who's gonna be seen as a guy who let another coach "out work" him? I have coached teams in the past who could show up and put a couple of weeks of hard work in and be ready to go come that first scrimmage. I have also coached teams where we could have practiced 12 hours a day for months and they still wouldn't be able to get out of their own way. I agree, the arms race is killing the sport. Not only driving kids away, but I am sure every one knows that one or two coaches in your building who just say they don't want to do it anymore. Not only football, but other sports as well. It just seems that football is the worst offender. It's exactly why I'm a retired coach now. #metoo
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Post by throwahitch on Jun 27, 2018 6:06:21 GMT -6
Way too many people simply waste time just to inflate their ego. They'll take 2 hours or actual work, stretch it into 6+ and then brag about it. And it sounds good. Because it sounds like you're super committed. And you don't win rings unless you're committed. And everybody wants rings. And it's all bull. 100% bull. Former HC would have workouts at 6AM and 6PM. Would not go home between them. When he was fired I remember him saying no ones going to be up there as much as he was. Never mind he never came to practice..
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Post by throwahitch on Jun 27, 2018 6:09:59 GMT -6
To each his own but I don’t want a kid who is out there for the fun of it. I want the kids who are going to have fun at it. We coaches need to make it fun. We don’t necessarily grind but we do get our kids on Tue, Wed and Thur from 8-12 in the morning. We get the kids in the weight room then speed and agility work and then football specific. We coach them hard but don’t kill them. This in your first sentence lies the problem. Football is a freaking game. Games are meant to be fun. If a kid is not out there to have fun and for the fun of it, then what the heck are we all doing? TO GET OFFERS COACH!! (Obvious sarcasm) I’m with you. I’m shocked a coach just said “I don’t want a kid who is out there for the fun of it”.
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Post by silkyice on Jun 27, 2018 6:39:37 GMT -6
This in your first sentence lies the problem. Football is a freaking game. Games are meant to be fun. If a kid is not out there to have fun and for the fun of it, then what the heck are we all doing? TO GET OFFERS COACH!! (Obvious sarcasm) I’m with you. I’m shocked a coach just said “I don’t want a kid who is out there for the fun of it”. Hold on. Hold on. Any statement can be taken out of context. No one wants a kid who is out there JUST to laugh or JUST to goof off or JUST to play the games. Football has to be fun, but if all you do is fun is then you probably won’t win much or teach much, and then football WON’T be fun. There just is a balance. We want the kid that plays football because it is MORE than fun. Not JUST fun. The kid that sacrifices, works hard, has commitment, discipline, plays for pride, competetion, and his teammates, etc. I could go on all day. And where the satisfcation and joy of having been apart of it all outweighs the “fun”. Just saying don’t crucify someone for a comment on the internet because we all know what he really means. I think...
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Post by throwahitch on Jun 27, 2018 7:00:06 GMT -6
TO GET OFFERS COACH!! (Obvious sarcasm) I’m with you. I’m shocked a coach just said “I don’t want a kid who is out there for the fun of it”. Hold on. Hold on. Any statement can be taken out of context. No one wants a kid who is out there JUST to laugh or JUST to goof off or JUST to play the games. Football has to be fun, but if all you do is fun is then you probably won’t win much or teach much, and then football WON’T be fun. There just is a balance. We want the kid that plays football because it is MORE than fun. Not JUST fun. The kid that sacrifices, works hard, has commitment, discipline, plays for pride, competetion, and his teammates, etc. I could go on all day. And where the satisfcation and joy of having been apart of it all outweighs the “fun”. Just saying don’t crucify someone for a comment on the internet because we all know what he really means. I think... Yeah there’s always a context. I’m just saying it’s possible he’s one of the ones who call the kids who have part-time jobs selfish. Not saying him as an individual, and no it can’t be a big circle jerk everyday. It does take hard work.
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Post by blb on Jun 27, 2018 7:07:14 GMT -6
Hard work can be fun, if it's purposeful, not just to fill up time.
Any idiot with a whistle and clipboard can make kids sweaty, sore, and tired, even throw up. Doesn't necessarily make them better.
Our summer workouts lasted until we got done, not a preconceived time slot. When we had 40+ kids on the team we usually got done in about 1:30. When we had 20+ kids we got done in an hour.
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Post by CS on Jun 27, 2018 7:15:11 GMT -6
TO GET OFFERS COACH!! (Obvious sarcasm) I’m with you. I’m shocked a coach just said “I don’t want a kid who is out there for the fun of it”. Hold on. Hold on. Any statement can be taken out of context. No one wants a kid who is out there JUST to laugh or JUST to goof off or JUST to play the games. Football has to be fun, but if all you do is fun is then you probably won’t win much or teach much, and then football WON’T be fun. There just is a balance. We want the kid that plays football because it is MORE than fun. Not JUST fun. The kid that sacrifices, works hard, has commitment, discipline, plays for pride, competetion, and his teammates, etc. I could go on all day. And where the satisfcation and joy of having been apart of it all outweighs the “fun”. Just saying don’t crucify someone for a comment on the internet because we all know what he really means. I think... ^This all day. We build relationships, take them places as a team and hope that we can provide an enjoyable experience for the kids but if someone if playing while we are teaching we crawl up their a$$ real quick. At the end of the day we want to win and so do the kids. I would find it hard to “care” if all we were doing was playing grab a$$ and not putting in work. We don’t grind the kids but don’t use the “it’s just a game” quote. Monopoly is a game. I have never heard of anyone getting fired for losing at monopoly
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 8:14:39 GMT -6
And if you think its going back to the good old days where you just show up and play? I have some beach front property in Hollywood to sell you.
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Post by blb on Jun 27, 2018 8:29:33 GMT -6
And if you think its going back to the good old days where you just show up and play? I have some beach front property in Hollywood to sell you.
Nobody has implied or suggested that.
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Post by junior6589 on Jun 27, 2018 9:28:17 GMT -6
A lot of small programs around my area (NJ) are having a tougher and tougher time getting kids to come out because the regular season itself is not starting before school begins. Teams used to be able to pick up a bunch of underclassmen at the end of summer/first week of school. Now? A kid wants to do that the season's already 3 games old.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 9:33:37 GMT -6
I think we have gone to far, and long for the time where kids were able to be kids, and football at this level was a sport and not a year round job.
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Post by fantom on Jun 27, 2018 9:33:45 GMT -6
And if you think its going back to the good old days where you just show up and play? I have some beach front property in Hollywood to sell you.
Nobody has implied or suggested that.
But it wouldn't be a bad thing.
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Post by blb on Jun 27, 2018 10:48:25 GMT -6
I think we have gone to far, and long for the time where kids were able to be kids, and football at this level was a sport and not a year round job.
I long for the days when I had a full head of hair and weighed 170, but that doesn't imply or suggest I'm going back to them.
Why do you always have to be so caustic?
You seem like a smart guy. Please try to contribute some positive posts once in awhile.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 27, 2018 10:53:23 GMT -6
A couple of thoughts.
I have seen the phrase "kids need time to be kids"...used several times. What exactly does that mean in 2018? Kids need time to sit indoors and text/play fortnight?? What exactly are the 15-19 year olds doing (I only work with the little ones now)
2nd, I agree it does seem like everyone is demanding far too much. Unfortunately, much like society, the high school athletic landscape seems to be growing a gap between the haves and have nots. If there is a "have" in your path, and somehow their community has embraced the #grind culture (and they have good coaching) well...how do you beat them?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 13:48:37 GMT -6
I long for the days when I had a full head of hair and weighed 170, but that doesn't imply or suggest I'm going back to them.
Why do you always have to be so caustic?
You seem like a smart guy. Please try to contribute some positive posts once in awhile.
I am not being negative. I am not trying to be a downer. I am just being honest. The money being thrown around has made the game something else. At least where I am at one had better put aside the Idea that war stories and beer are a big part of the coaching gig. The 2nd in line where I am at now, kizzin cousin to the hc is taking him 15k in a stipend. But he is in that building 25 hrs min a week During summer.And he is not a coordinator. At least I am seeing the beer and war coach being pushed out. And as a result, a lot of "really good jobs" are open. HC that are demanding at the very min.you are not coach I described in my first post. As a result kids getting jobs in the summer has been a way to be a kid. The demands placed on the kids is far less when flipping burgers. Football, actual academics, actually being held accountable and at a high level aka playing football is just not fun. And same can be said for coaching. I think structure is good for everybody. But I understand that is not helping the game.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 13:52:09 GMT -6
A couple of thoughts. I have seen the phrase "kids need time to be kids"...used several times. What exactly does that mean in 2018? Kids need time to sit indoors and text/play fortnight?? What exactly are the 15-19 year olds doing (I only work with the little ones now) 2nd, I agree it does seem like everyone is demanding far too much. Unfortunately, much like society, the high school athletic landscape seems to be growing a gap between the haves and have nots. If there is a "have" in your path, and somehow their community has embraced the #grind culture (and they have good coaching) well...how do you beat them? You left out the one I see meat least as much as kids being allowed to kids, and that is coaches that want to be around to watch their kids grow up. Most of my friends are of the mindset that kids are a necessary evil.
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Post by carookie on Jun 27, 2018 13:55:51 GMT -6
A couple of thoughts. I have seen the phrase "kids need time to be kids"...used several times. What exactly does that mean in 2018? Kids need time to sit indoors and text/play fortnight?? What exactly are the 15-19 year olds doing (I only work with the little ones now) 2nd, I agree it does seem like everyone is demanding far too much. Unfortunately, much like society, the high school athletic landscape seems to be growing a gap between the haves and have nots. If there is a "have" in your path, and somehow their community has embraced the #grind culture (and they have good coaching) well...how do you beat them? 1) Summer off. Limited amount of responsibilities. Probably sleeping in, maybe staying up late. Not worrying about having too many responsibilities but just free. 2) This part seems to presuppose that grinding is beneficial and leads to winning. If they are better than you then they most likely will beat you, if not they most likely will not. Grinding should not improve their shot, unless it helps them steal players. Of course that presupposes that we have found the magic number of practice time ourselves, and that doing anymore or any less is worse.
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Post by cbnindian on Jun 27, 2018 14:01:51 GMT -6
Like I said to each his own! I don’t want a kid out there who has not paid a price or sacrificed somewhat to come out when he wants yet my job is on the line all the time! Those kids that “just show up for the FUN of it don’t pay my bills, pay for my kids to go to college and other things a person/coach faces. Those so called FUN kids will let you down when the game is on the line and eventually get you fired so why let them out. Play the kid that has been there during the summer. Sometimes on here you guys seem that your way is the only way. I was just stating what WE do. The things that we have set up in our program. We get our kids in 3 days a week. They get Monday off along with the coaches getting Monday off. You basically get a chance for a life in the summer as a player and a coach yet get work in each day. You also have a chance for a long weekend Thursday afternoon through Monday if possible. Something must be working because we are a small school where I am at of about 475 yet we have 73 on the roster. We have an average about 70 each day at workouts. We feed them twice a day and also provide rides to camps and things a coach does. Pay for many other things people don’t see. And many other extras for the kids that SACRIFICE. We don’t GRIND as a coaching staff and we do win! When you WIN to me that is a lot of FUN! Kids like to win also!
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