bl16qb
Sophomore Member
Posts: 118
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Post by bl16qb on Mar 25, 2018 9:47:31 GMT -6
Heard a great speaker talking about not starting practice with stretch. It’s slow paced, boring and redundant. They stretch about 20 minutes into practice but try to start with something more engaging.
I thought it was a great idea. By the time the regular season gets started, practice can feel too familiar and scripted.
Any ideas for what to start practice with? On air, up tempo offense? One on ones?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2018 10:27:16 GMT -6
Indy or group period for whatever side of the ball you start on.
Or you could do special teams right out of the gate while there is plenty of focus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2018 10:53:14 GMT -6
Cautionary tale
A few years ago one of our assistants showed us an article where some study claimed that stretching prior to strenuous strength training actually decreased athletic performance, he brought this up in a meeting, and the science behind it seemed sound
Now it was only 1 article
He suggested we try not stretching but simply warming up prior to games etc,
That idea lasted about 30 minutes till I brought up the litigation happy society we live in, therefore we never did implement it
Remember youre being judged on EVERYTHING you do, a kid gets hurt even if it has nothing to do with stretching, you can bet youre going to be at least answering some questions to your approach
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Post by silkyice on Mar 25, 2018 11:02:26 GMT -6
Haven’t stretched in 15 plus years.
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Post by coachbdud on Mar 25, 2018 11:06:52 GMT -6
we do a short dynamic warm up right at the beginning of practice and go straight into INDYs after
probably 5 minutes
we do a static strecth after each practice
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Post by s73 on Mar 25, 2018 11:55:44 GMT -6
Heard a great speaker talking about not starting practice with stretch. It’s slow paced, boring and redundant. They stretch about 20 minutes into practice but try to start with something more engaging. I thought it was a great idea. By the time the regular season gets started, practice can feel too familiar and scripted. Any ideas for what to start practice with? On air, up tempo offense? One on ones? We do dynamic warm up w/ exaggerated movements to improve flexibility and range of motion. Went away from stretching probably 10 years ago now b/c stretching is all about increasing range of motion so we just cut to the chase & go right to range of motion exercises & warm up. Whole thing takes about 10 minutes. I think the vast majority of muscle pulls has NOTHING to do w/ stretching but rather a lack of symmetry in your weight training as well as dehydration of the muscle tissue. What drives me crazy is when I see youth programs spend 20 minutes on stretching. When's the last time anybody has seen an 8 year old w/ a pulled hammy? Those guys are like rubber bands. Just warm up for 5-10 & go. JMO.
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Post by cbnindian on Mar 25, 2018 12:39:29 GMT -6
Took stretch out many years ago. Too much talking and screwing around.
Music starts we do Agilities/Bags/QB’s loosen up-5 minutes
Then team form tackle for everyone-(helps with liability hopefully so that they have been told numerous times to not use their head)-5 minutes
5 minutes group installreview-whether it is def or off day depends or 2 minute offense.
Then Indy drills and the rest of practice.
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Post by Yash on Mar 25, 2018 12:49:49 GMT -6
We start with perfect plays on air- 10 yards at a time. Helps us remember the install we did on Monday. We run the script we will be running during Team so they get a free run at it before we do it with a defense. 3 groups do it, groups 2 and 3 do what the group in front of them did. It helps our no huddle tempo, helps us remember the motions and things we want with certain plays.
When we don't do that, each position group starts with position specific drills at a low intensity that will loosen them up. Have done this for past 6 years and have had 0 pulls, strains, sprains related to not being warmed up. If a kid needs some special stretching or loosening up they do it with trainer prior to practice. If I am in charge I will never have a stretch session before practice again.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 25, 2018 13:02:06 GMT -6
Cautionary tale A few years ago one of our assistants showed us an article where some study claimed that stretching prior to strenuous strength training actually decreased athletic performance, he brought this up in a meeting, and the science behind it seemed sound Now it was only 1 article He suggested we try not stretching but simply warming up prior to games etc, That idea lasted about 30 minutes till I brought up the litigation happy society we live in, therefore we never did implement it Remember youre being judged on EVERYTHING you do, a kid gets hurt even if it has nothing to do with stretching, you can bet youre going to be at least answering some questions to your approach I think you will find plenty of support for NOT static stretching, providing you have a proper warm up period. Heck, you could easily flip your concerns and say that someone might question your approach for using outdated practices if you static stretch prior to practices and games.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2018 13:34:06 GMT -6
Cautionary tale A few years ago one of our assistants showed us an article where some study claimed that stretching prior to strenuous strength training actually decreased athletic performance, he brought this up in a meeting, and the science behind it seemed sound Now it was only 1 article He suggested we try not stretching but simply warming up prior to games etc, That idea lasted about 30 minutes till I brought up the litigation happy society we live in, therefore we never did implement it Remember youre being judged on EVERYTHING you do, a kid gets hurt even if it has nothing to do with stretching, you can bet youre going to be at least answering some questions to your approach I think you will find plenty of support for NOT static stretching, providing you have a proper warm up period. Heck, you could easily flip your concerns and say that someone might question your approach for using outdated practices if you static stretch prior to practices and games. Outdated, maybe but most major sports, including the NCAA, and NFL still do, if anyone's progressive its those major markets, arguments may be made either way, but Ill err on the side of caution.
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Post by thomasmagnum on Mar 25, 2018 14:23:15 GMT -6
Mondays we start with Offensive Indy progressing from half speed to 3/4 to full speed in 10-15 mins Tuesdays we start with an Offensive screen period with two groups going back to back getting as many reps as we can get in 5-10 mins full speed Wednesdays we start with a special teams circuit usually either running kickoff/punt lanes or punt block take offs
Before games we don't do the all together team static stretch either
So far after 3 years we haven't had more than one hamstring, quad or calf strain/tears.
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Post by bluboy on Mar 25, 2018 14:42:48 GMT -6
The first thing we do (after pre-practice) is field goal/extra point. We go to a 7-minute dynamic warm up after that. Depending on the weather, we might have players do different movements across the field (sideline to hash -hash to hash - hash to sideline)We will stretch at the end of practice, but not before. We use the same dynamic warm up in pre game.
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Post by mrjvi on Mar 25, 2018 15:22:08 GMT -6
We start practice with practice, not any stretching. I guess we run from the end line to whatever group work is first if that's a warmup.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 25, 2018 15:50:21 GMT -6
I think you will find plenty of support for NOT static stretching, providing you have a proper warm up period. Heck, you could easily flip your concerns and say that someone might question your approach for using outdated practices if you static stretch prior to practices and games. Outdated, maybe but most major sports, including the NCAA, and NFL still do, if anyone's progressive its those major markets, arguments may be made either way, but Ill err on the side of caution. Whatever. Just pointing out that by your logic, you could be sued because you ran ____ system, and kept some precious angel from getting a scholarship to Notre dame.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2018 17:11:35 GMT -6
Outdated, maybe but most major sports, including the NCAA, and NFL still do, if anyone's progressive its those major markets, arguments may be made either way, but Ill err on the side of caution. Whatever. Just pointing out that by your logic, you could be sued because you ran ____ system, and kept some precious angel from getting a scholarship to Notre dame. Scheme and injury prevention are (should be at least) a little different Lets us not forget the Mike Leach TT saga, whether he was guilty of what he was accused of or not Scheme wise theres nothing preventing them from leaving the program if they feel the system we are using to said school will prevent them from going to a top progra, and in this day and age, Id be stunned if a player actually stayed put in a school where they didnt like what the HC ran nyway Injuries on the other hand are a completely different situation ...if a kid gets injured, whether it be the result of stretching prior or not, whether it's your fault or not , if your program is doing something out of the ordinary you can bet someone's probably going to be asking questions Then you have the trickle down , especially if the precious angel was indeed a div 1 prospect, then chances you are going to hear at least some discussion along the lines of -Why don't they stretch prior ? -Couldve this injury have been prevented if they stretched? -Does the staff know what they are doing ? -What are their qualifications/certifications (they'll most likely ask to be produced) -Where is the data against stretching ? (likewise) Again stretching may not hinder injuries at all, but if 10 minutes of your time prevents dealing with potential legal action through actual means or perceived means...thats what im saying
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Post by kylem56 on Mar 25, 2018 17:38:00 GMT -6
All the questions/arguments in this thread aside, to answer the OP
We start every practice with kickoff or turnover station / tackling stations / or blocking stations
at my previous school we did Team Take Off which was all of our core plays on air as fast as possible down the field.
At my previous stop and current gig, once we finish our opening drill, we give them 1 minute to static stretch whatever they need to then its go time.
We still do static stretch during pre game on Friday nights but I would prefer to get rid of that as well. Does anyone NOT do your standard static stretching during pre game on game day? I think alot of it is more so for the kids to get focused before the game but I am always interested to hear what others are doing
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Post by silkyice on Mar 25, 2018 18:06:14 GMT -6
All the questions/arguments in this thread aside, to answer the OP We start every practice with kickoff or turnover station / tackling stations / or blocking stations at my previous school we did Team Take Off which was all of our core plays on air as fast as possible down the field. At my previous stop and current gig, once we finish our opening drill, we give them 1 minute to static stretch whatever they need to then its go time. We still do static stretch during pre game on Friday nights but I would prefer to get rid of that as well. Does anyone NOT do your standard static stretching during pre game on game day? I think alot of it is more so for the kids to get focused before the game but I am always interested to hear what others are doing I just find it odd to stretch on game day and not before practice. I would think that could lead to injuries. At the very least, why a different routine?
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Post by **** on Mar 25, 2018 18:52:51 GMT -6
We dynamic warm up for maybe 3 minutes to start practice
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Post by mrjvi on Mar 25, 2018 19:41:10 GMT -6
We never static stretch.
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Post by realdawg on Mar 26, 2018 5:51:44 GMT -6
We never static stretch before practice. Quick dynamic warmup during prepractice then straight into pursuit drill ( or 1/2 line or team goal line). Idk what the offense does first. Usually team tempo or team screen I think.
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Post by blb on Mar 26, 2018 6:21:40 GMT -6
I'm ambivalent on the topic.
I do think still-developing, maturing teenagers need to continue to work on flexibility and ROM, so they should do stretching exercises some time.
And I wonder at teams that do Dynamic warm-up before games yet do "Static Stretching" after 15-minute rest at halftime.
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Post by cwaltsmith on Mar 26, 2018 7:14:45 GMT -6
I don't know any strength coach that advocates static stretching of a cold muscle? ?? zero... If you know of one, I'd like to know who it is and talk with them. Every ounce of research I have seen over the last 10 years has said this is terrible for muscles.
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Post by mrjvi on Mar 26, 2018 7:40:31 GMT -6
I believe that proper strength training contributes to mobility as much as anything. Resistance through ROM builds mobility and strength in the ROM. Though hard to believe, even strength in somewhat less than full ROM helps mobility.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 26, 2018 8:06:56 GMT -6
we do a short dynamic warm up right at the beginning of practice and go straight into INDYs after probably 5 minutes we do a static strecth after each practice Yep, this is how w e do it. Our dynamic stretches never take more than 5-10 minutes. We jump straight into blocking or tackling stations right after. We change up our blocking and tackling stations on a daily basis to keep things fresh and to engage the kids. I have book that's geared for youth football but it has hundreds of blocking and tackling drills that we use. We've found that starting off with these stations sets a high, aggressive tempo for practice. The kids get a ton fast paced reps, straight off of the bat.
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CoachC
Freshmen Member
Posts: 56
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Post by CoachC on Mar 26, 2018 12:01:56 GMT -6
Plenty of information available showing that you don't improve flexibility/ROM trying to stretch a cold muscle. (Health teacher here) A cold muscle's natural inclination when stretched is actually to tighten up, which then reduces flexibility. Static stretching should only be done after a proper warm-up/increasing blood flow/increasing heart rate.
At that point, static stretching could be implemented at any point in the practice. Immediately after some dynamic warm-up drills, or like we do, at the end of practice.
Our warm-up is in individual groups. I have the QB's about 5 yards from the sideline. The WRs line up on the sideline and do some high knees for 5 yards. They then catch an easy throw from the QB, who is warming up his arm with this drill. They WRs go one at a time through the line and then repeat in the other direction. As the QBs loosen up, they back up. The WRs can do butt-kickers or any type of movement really for their 5 yard window. The QB stays light on his feet and waits for the WR to plant and turn before throwing.
We do this for about 5-7 minutes, and then they're ready to go.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 26, 2018 18:36:27 GMT -6
Whatever. Just pointing out that by your logic, you could be sued because you ran ____ system, and kept some precious angel from getting a scholarship to Notre dame. Scheme and injury prevention are (should be at least) a little different Lets us not forget the Mike Leach TT saga, whether he was guilty of what he was accused of or not Scheme wise theres nothing preventing them from leaving the program if they feel the system we are using to said school will prevent them from going to a top progra, and in this day and age, Id be stunned if a player actually stayed put in a school where they didnt like what the HC ran nyway Injuries on the other hand are a completely different situation ...if a kid gets injured, whether it be the result of stretching prior or not, whether it's your fault or not , if your program is doing something out of the ordinary you can bet someone's probably going to be asking questions Then you have the trickle down , especially if the precious angel was indeed a div 1 prospect, then chances you are going to hear at least some discussion along the lines of -Why don't they stretch prior ? -Couldve this injury have been prevented if they stretched? -Does the staff know what they are doing ? -What are their qualifications/certifications (they'll most likely ask to be produced) -Where is the data against stretching ? (likewise) Again stretching may not hinder injuries at all, but if 10 minutes of your time prevents dealing with potential legal action through actual means or perceived means...thats what im saying My point (as is well supported by a ton of posts here in this very thread) is that not doing static stretching would definitely NOT be considered "out of the ordinary"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 18:43:01 GMT -6
Scheme and injury prevention are (should be at least) a little different Lets us not forget the Mike Leach TT saga, whether he was guilty of what he was accused of or not Scheme wise theres nothing preventing them from leaving the program if they feel the system we are using to said school will prevent them from going to a top progra, and in this day and age, Id be stunned if a player actually stayed put in a school where they didnt like what the HC ran nyway Injuries on the other hand are a completely different situation ...if a kid gets injured, whether it be the result of stretching prior or not, whether it's your fault or not , if your program is doing something out of the ordinary you can bet someone's probably going to be asking questions Then you have the trickle down , especially if the precious angel was indeed a div 1 prospect, then chances you are going to hear at least some discussion along the lines of -Why don't they stretch prior ? -Couldve this injury have been prevented if they stretched? -Does the staff know what they are doing ? -What are their qualifications/certifications (they'll most likely ask to be produced) -Where is the data against stretching ? (likewise) Again stretching may not hinder injuries at all, but if 10 minutes of your time prevents dealing with potential legal action through actual means or perceived means...thats what im saying My point (as is well supported by a ton of posts here in this very thread) is that not doing static stretching would definitely NOT be considered "out of the ordinary" Well chalk it up to experience, I've never seen a team not static stretch.
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Post by silkyice on Mar 26, 2018 18:45:43 GMT -6
My point (as is well supported by a ton of posts here in this very thread) is that not doing static stretching would definitely NOT be considered "out of the ordinary" Well chalk it up to experience, I've never seen a team not static stretch. Seriously? Never. Or has no team that you have been a part of not stretched and you haven’t really paid attention to others. I couldn’t tell you if teams we play stretch or not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 18:48:40 GMT -6
Well chalk it up to experience, I've never seen a team not static stretch. Seriously? Never. Or has no team that you have been a part of not stretched and you haven’t really paid attention to others. I couldn’t tell you if teams we play stretch or not. Its possible, but I don't ever recall (24 years now) not seeing an opponent stretch, I know every team i've ever been on staff with did
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Post by blb on Mar 27, 2018 7:57:53 GMT -6
To specifically address the topic, we always started practice with a 15-minute Specialties period.
During that time we emphasized passing or kicking. Linemen who were not specialists worked on pass pro-rush and techniques.
We then did our Warm-up which was not always Flexibility.
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