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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 22, 2017 20:00:21 GMT -6
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Post by PIGSKIN11 on Dec 22, 2017 20:03:00 GMT -6
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Post by 44dlcoach on Dec 22, 2017 20:06:47 GMT -6
I know this is more common in basketball for top recruits, not really sure why unless it's just to get to the NBA a year sooner. Seems like the trend in football has been the opposite direction where guys try to get "older" for their class not skip ahead.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 22, 2017 20:36:39 GMT -6
I know this is more common in basketball for top recruits, not really sure why unless it's just to get to the NBA a year sooner. Seems like the trend in football has been the opposite direction where guys try to get "older" for their class not skip ahead. Yes, but in basketball it seems AAU will soon become, if it is not already considered "more important" than HS basketball. Basketball guys are already playing best against the best from middle school ages. HS football is the "big thing". Just seems like such a mercenary move to skip your senior year of high school to go play college ball. Along those lines, I wonder if the kid is already "older". I know here in Louisiana one of the greatest LSU players in history Tommy Cassanova raised a big stink about HS players ages when he was in the state legislature, once stating that it shocked him that so many players were 18-19 year olds playing in HS, because when he was 19 he was a sophomore corner playing in the SEC (Made all SEC, and All America soph, jr, sr years) on a defense that gave up 9 points a game. |
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Post by 44dlcoach on Dec 22, 2017 20:43:49 GMT -6
I know this is more common in basketball for top recruits, not really sure why unless it's just to get to the NBA a year sooner. Seems like the trend in football has been the opposite direction where guys try to get "older" for their class not skip ahead. Yes, but in basketball it seems AAU will soon become, if it is not already considered "more important" than HS basketball. Basketball guys are already playing best against the best from middle school ages. HS football is the "big thing". Just seems like such a mercenary move to skip your senior year of high school to go play college ball. Along those lines, I wonder if the kid is already "older". I know here in Louisiana one of the greatest LSU players in history Tommy Cassanova raised a big stink about HS players ages when he was in the state legislature, once stating that it shocked him that so many players were 18-19 year olds playing in HS, because when he was 19 he was a sophomore corner playing in the SEC (Made all SEC, and All America soph, jr, sr years) on a defense that gave up 9 points a game. Don't want to be too speculative here, I know that's not what this board is for. But my first thoughts were "I wonder if the kid is a year older, and I wonder if somebody at USC made it clear to the kid that they think he can win the job right away." |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 22, 2017 20:45:36 GMT -6
Yes, but in basketball it seems AAU will soon become, if it is not already considered "more important" than HS basketball. Basketball guys are already playing best against the best from middle school ages. HS football is the "big thing". Just seems like such a mercenary move to skip your senior year of high school to go play college ball. Along those lines, I wonder if the kid is already "older". I know here in Louisiana one of the greatest LSU players in history Tommy Cassanova raised a big stink about HS players ages when he was in the state legislature, once stating that it shocked him that so many players were 18-19 year olds playing in HS, because when he was 19 he was a sophomore corner playing in the SEC (Made all SEC, and All America soph, jr, sr years) on a defense that gave up 9 points a game. Don't want to be too speculative here, I know that's not what this board is for. But my first thoughts were "I wonder if the kid is a year older, and I wonder if somebody at USC made it clear to the kid that they think he can win the job right away." I wouldn't say either one of those is very speculative. |
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Post by 3rdandlong on Dec 22, 2017 21:11:50 GMT -6
John David Booty did the same thing when he went to USC.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 22, 2017 21:31:05 GMT -6
John David Booty did the same thing when he went to USC. But there were some additional circumstances there. His Dad had just left the school during a large religious rift. |
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Post by wolfden12 on Dec 22, 2017 21:53:55 GMT -6
Every situation is different. I know it happens in other sports specifically those more individualized such as golf Ty Tryon and Lydia Ko both I believe were 15 when they tried to go pro. I think it raises eyebrows in football because it is so uncommon and the nature of the nature of the sport. AAU and other sports hockey (jr. leagues specifically in other countries (Canada, Europe and Russia) kids play professionally in their teenage years (16-17).
I think if he feels he is ready physically and more importantly mentally then go take the chance. Life is about learning. I am 20 years out of high school and enjoyed it tremendously. The school day, teachers, peers, events, etc however, times and society have changed and more kids are about "me" as well as certain parents. I hope this doesn't become a trend because for everyone that makes it there will be a larger number who hit and miss.
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Post by jlenwood on Dec 22, 2017 23:06:05 GMT -6
When you read this story, it reminds me of why I believe most if not all sports writers are frickin pinheads. I think it's great if kid can get out of HS early and get on with their life, be it the pro's (Harper) or getting a jump start on college ball. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 23, 2017 0:49:01 GMT -6
When you read this story, it reminds me of why I believe most if not all sports writers are frickin pinheads. I think it's great if kid can get out of HS early and get on with their life, be it the pro's (Harper) or getting a jump start on college ball. Why? With Harper, One can make an argument that they knew he was going the pro ball route, so getting there ASAP might make financial sense. Also, in baseball, you would have to go to HS for the full year, as baseball is a spring sport. But why the rush to play college ball? Any NFL shot is still 3 years away, and he would have had the option to Enroll in Spring of 2019 if he wanted. |
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mc140
Sophomore Member
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Post by mc140 on Dec 23, 2017 1:03:53 GMT -6
Virtually every kid who reclassifies in basketball was held back at some point in middle school.
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Post by rsmith627 on Dec 23, 2017 1:09:58 GMT -6
When you read this story, it reminds me of why I believe most if not all sports writers are frickin pinheads. I think it's great if kid can get out of HS early and get on with their life, be it the pro's (Harper) or getting a jump start on college ball. Why? With Harper, One can make an argument that they knew he was going the pro ball route, so getting there ASAP might make financial sense. Also, in baseball, you would have to go to HS for the full year, as baseball is a spring sport. But why the rush to play college ball? Any NFL shot is still 3 years away, and he would have had the option to Enroll in Spring of 2019 if he wanted. The only thing I can maybe think of is that he felt like he had the opportunity to go compete for the job right away, vs. waiting a year and somebody else taking the job? |
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Post by KYCoach2331 on Dec 23, 2017 5:40:32 GMT -6
I’m pretty sure the same thing happened with South Carolina’s QB, I’m not for sure if it’s exactly the same but I know he didn’t go to high school his senior year
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Post by 19delta on Dec 23, 2017 7:27:16 GMT -6
I know this is more common in basketball for top recruits, not really sure why unless it's just to get to the NBA a year sooner. Seems like the trend in football has been the opposite direction where guys try to get "older" for their class not skip ahead. Yes, but in basketball it seems AAU will soon become, if it is not already considered "more important" than HS basketball. Basketball guys are already playing best against the best from middle school ages. HS football is the "big thing". Just seems like such a mercenary move to skip your senior year of high school to go play college ball. Along those lines, I wonder if the kid is already "older". I know here in Louisiana one of the greatest LSU players in history Tommy Cassanova raised a big stink about HS players ages when he was in the state legislature, once stating that it shocked him that so many players were 18-19 year olds playing in HS, because when he was 19 he was a sophomore corner playing in the SEC (Made all SEC, and All America soph, jr, sr years) on a defense that gave up 9 points a game. About 15 ago, there was a documentary titled "Go Tigers" about the football program at Massillon Washington High School in Ohio. According to the film, it was a fairly common practice for parents to "redshirt" their football-playing some by voluntarily holding them back in 7th or 8th grade. As a result, the number of 18 and 19 year old seniors on the varsity football team certainly raised eyebrows. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 23, 2017 7:32:39 GMT -6
Yes, but in basketball it seems AAU will soon become, if it is not already considered "more important" than HS basketball. Basketball guys are already playing best against the best from middle school ages. HS football is the "big thing". Just seems like such a mercenary move to skip your senior year of high school to go play college ball. Along those lines, I wonder if the kid is already "older". I know here in Louisiana one of the greatest LSU players in history Tommy Cassanova raised a big stink about HS players ages when he was in the state legislature, once stating that it shocked him that so many players were 18-19 year olds playing in HS, because when he was 19 he was a sophomore corner playing in the SEC (Made all SEC, and All America soph, jr, sr years) on a defense that gave up 9 points a game. About 15 ago, there was a documentary titled "Go Tigers" about the football program at Massillon Washington High School in Ohio. According to the film, it was a fairly common practice for parents to "redshirt" their football-playing some by voluntarily holding them back in 7th or 8th grade. As a result, the number of 18 and 19 year old seniors on the varsity football team certainly raised eyebrows. The same thing was happening around that time at Evangel Christian, John Curtis Christian and West Monroe High School in Louisiana. People aware of the practice used to chide those schools for having an "8+" grade level. Kind of sours the fact that also during that time, The school resumes looked like this : John Curtis state championships 1975, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2011, 2012, Evangel Christian state championships 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2016 Evangel did not open a HS until 1989. West Monroe State Championships 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2005, 2009, 2011 Prior to the Early 1990s, West Monroe was a whipping boy in LA high school football. Article from 20 years ago. www.edweek.org/ew/articles/1996/04/03/28shirt.h15.html States that one year West Monroe High School held back 19 kids at "parent request" who had performed well enough academically for promotion. As the article points out, that is an entire class. |
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Post by hsrose on Dec 23, 2017 9:03:23 GMT -6
Some additional articles on Daniels heading to USC. Last year CIF 'did away' with the athletically motivated transfers. Still a couple of areas that can hinder a move, but pretty much did away with it being athletically motivated. So the word on one of the boards is that a new QB will be moving in before the uniforms are washed and put away. Daniels is, per the articles, 2-time Gatorade state player of the year (Frosh, Soph), and National Player of the year as a junior. 15-0 record this year, 72% passing completion rate, national champion. What else can he do? Article says that he's 17 so he's on track age-wise. www.maxpreps.com/news/wsb5ieHNdkyYlL9BQ25KAA/mater-dei-quarterback-jt-daniels-joining-class-of-2018.htmFrom a gossip board here in NorCal - QB Bryce Young, LA Cathredal HS, with offers from Alabama, Oklahoma and USC, (as a sophomore) is expected to transfer in to Mater Dei. www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-high-school-sports-updates-usc-commit-j-t-daniels-is-the-gatorade-1513714838-htmlstory.htmlwww.latimes.com/sports/highschool/varsity-times/la-sp-mater-dei-daniels-20171215-story.htmlEven doing the 'Transfer of the year' now - www.latimes.com/la-sp-high-school-sports-updates-the-transfer-of-the-year-in-prep-1511895581-htmlstory.html |
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Post by CS on Dec 23, 2017 11:53:04 GMT -6
About 15 ago, there was a documentary titled "Go Tigers" about the football program at Massillon Washington High School in Ohio. According to the film, it was a fairly common practice for parents to "redshirt" their football-playing some by voluntarily holding them back in 7th or 8th grade. As a result, the number of 18 and 19 year old seniors on the varsity football team certainly raised eyebrows. The same thing was happening around that time at Evangel Christian, John Curtis Christian and West Monroe High School in Louisiana. People aware of the practice used to chide those schools for having an "8+" grade level. Kind of sours the fact that also during that time, The school resumes looked like this : John Curtis state championships 1975, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2011, 2012, Evangel Christian state championships 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2016 Evangel did not open a HS until 1989. West Monroe State Championships 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2005, 2009, 2011 Prior to the Early 1990s, West Monroe was a whipping boy in LA high school football. Article from 20 years ago. www.edweek.org/ew/articles/1996/04/03/28shirt.h15.html States that one year West Monroe High School held back 19 kids at "parent request" who had performed well enough academically for promotion. As the article points out, that is an entire class. Soooooo you’re saying that we need to figure out a way to convince parents to hold their kids back in jr high...... if everyone would just read outliers |
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Post by joker31 on Dec 23, 2017 13:39:40 GMT -6
I am okay with this move, with or without the other good player transferring in.
- He completed all the required course work as a JR in HS. Check.
- He is an elite player at his position and on any given game was the best player on the field. Check.
- He will not get better by going against HS competition. Check.
- AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, he helped lift the program to win a state championship. Check.
If any of the above were not accomplished, he should have come back. All four apply, he should go.
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Post by coachb5806 on Dec 23, 2017 16:58:23 GMT -6
The same thing was happening around that time at Evangel Christian, John Curtis Christian and West Monroe High School in Louisiana. People aware of the practice used to chide those schools for having an "8+" grade level. Kind of sours the fact that also during that time, The school resumes looked like this : John Curtis state championships 1975, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2011, 2012, Evangel Christian state championships 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2016 Evangel did not open a HS until 1989. West Monroe State Championships 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2005, 2009, 2011 Prior to the Early 1990s, West Monroe was a whipping boy in LA high school football. Article from 20 years ago. www.edweek.org/ew/articles/1996/04/03/28shirt.h15.html States that one year West Monroe High School held back 19 kids at "parent request" who had performed well enough academically for promotion. As the article points out, that is an entire class. Soooooo you’re saying that we need to figure out a way to convince parents to hold their kids back in jr high...... if everyone would just read outliers Probably the most interesting book i have read. Makes me look at everything in a different light. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 23, 2017 17:03:48 GMT -6
I am okay with this move, with or without the other good player transferring in. - He completed all the required course work as a JR in HS. Check. - He is an elite player at his position and on any given game was the best player on the field. Check. - He will not get better by going against HS competition. Check. - AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, he helped lift the program to win a state championship. Check. If any of the above were not accomplished, he should have come back. All four apply, he should go. I have to disagree vehemently with your last item on the list particularly your labeling of "most importantly". It is absolutely irrelevant. |
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Post by joker31 on Dec 23, 2017 19:14:17 GMT -6
I am okay with this move, with or without the other good player transferring in. - He completed all the required course work as a JR in HS. Check. - He is an elite player at his position and on any given game was the best player on the field. Check. - He will not get better by going against HS competition. Check. - AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, he helped lift the program to win a state championship. Check. If any of the above were not accomplished, he should have come back. All four apply, he should go. I have to disagree vehemently with your last item on the list particularly your labeling of "most importantly". It is absolutely irrelevant. To each their own, but I'm willing to bet this was a factor. If they ended up losing to DLS, perhaps he comes back. |
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Post by jlenwood on Dec 23, 2017 20:46:03 GMT -6
When you read this story, it reminds me of why I believe most if not all sports writers are frickin pinheads. I think it's great if kid can get out of HS early and get on with their life, be it the pro's (Harper) or getting a jump start on college ball. Why? With Harper, One can make an argument that they knew he was going the pro ball route, so getting there ASAP might make financial sense. Also, in baseball, you would have to go to HS for the full year, as baseball is a spring sport. But why the rush to play college ball? Any NFL shot is still 3 years away, and he would have had the option to Enroll in Spring of 2019 if he wanted. My pinhead argument was concerning Harper. Everyone in baseball new Harper was going to be a big deal and his payday was going to be huge. The writer makes it seem as though if he eschewed college and went pro, he would surely regret that he didn't get his "education". I say BS. If the purpose of the college education system is to prepare you for employ, and yet you can be employed 2-4 years earlier, ggo make the money. As far as football, I know Braxton Miller left early to go to Ohio State, and it worked out pretty good for him. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 23, 2017 21:15:27 GMT -6
Why? With Harper, One can make an argument that they knew he was going the pro ball route, so getting there ASAP might make financial sense. Also, in baseball, you would have to go to HS for the full year, as baseball is a spring sport. But why the rush to play college ball? Any NFL shot is still 3 years away, and he would have had the option to Enroll in Spring of 2019 if he wanted. My pinhead argument was concerning Harper. Everyone in baseball new Harper was going to be a big deal and his payday was going to be huge. The writer makes it seem as though if he eschewed college and went pro, he would surely regret that he didn't get his "education". I say BS. If the purpose of the college education system is to prepare you for employ, and yet you can be employed 2-4 years earlier, ggo make the money. As far as football, I know Braxton Miller left early to go to Ohio State, and it worked out pretty good for him. Actually, that is not supposed to be the purpose of higher education. That is supposed to be the job of the primary and secondary school system. Sadly , we have evolved such that is now the case. But your point is well taken. Did Miller skip his Senior Year ( Both Semesters) or did go to HS From Aug until Christmas and then Enroll at OSU in January? The latter is becoming fairly common, but not many are simply skipping their entire sr year (and senior season) to go enroll in college. |
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Post by Defcord on Dec 24, 2017 3:37:38 GMT -6
Sounds like a good excuse to skip prom... |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 24, 2017 6:53:30 GMT -6
Sounds like a good excuse to skip prom... I know you are being tongue in cheek, but foregoing your last semester of high school and enrolling in January is not uncommon. That would allow you to skip prom as well. Skipping your senior season of HS football and your entire senior year is less common |
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Post by Defcord on Dec 24, 2017 7:49:28 GMT -6
Sounds like a good excuse to skip prom... I know you are being tongue in cheek, but foregoing your last semester of high school and enrolling in January is not uncommon. That would allow you to skip prom as well. Skipping your senior season of HS football and your entire senior year is less common I definitely think a family should do what’s best for them based on their own values and goals. I went to a small high school and bought into everything my head football coach said. My son is named after the guy. From a pure nostalgic stand point I can’t imagine missing my senior season. I coach at small school now and kids have a lot of community pride and brotherhood and think most of them would think it’s crazy to miss senior season. But I have worked in schools with multiple feeder schools in cities where recruiting and transferring was common so senior year didn’t seem as special across the board. At least this kid isn’t going to the cross town rival his old team plays in week 9. If my son were given the opportunity to go to college early, pursue a football career and prestigious degree then as a dad I would be inclined to consider to back his decision if he chose to go. |
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Post by jlenwood on Dec 26, 2017 20:31:09 GMT -6
My pinhead argument was concerning Harper. Everyone in baseball new Harper was going to be a big deal and his payday was going to be huge. The writer makes it seem as though if he eschewed college and went pro, he would surely regret that he didn't get his "education". I say BS. If the purpose of the college education system is to prepare you for employ, and yet you can be employed 2-4 years earlier, ggo make the money. As far as football, I know Braxton Miller left early to go to Ohio State, and it worked out pretty good for him. Actually, that is not supposed to be the purpose of higher education. That is supposed to be the job of the primary and secondary school system. Sadly , we have evolved such that is now the case. But your point is well taken. Did Miller skip his Senior Year ( Both Semesters) or did go to HS From Aug until Christmas and then Enroll at OSU in January? The latter is becoming fairly common, but not many are simply skipping their entire sr year (and senior season) to go enroll in college. I think he just enrolled early so he could be a part of spring ball if memory serves right. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 26, 2017 20:48:16 GMT -6
Actually, that is not supposed to be the purpose of higher education. That is supposed to be the job of the primary and secondary school system. Sadly , we have evolved such that is now the case. But your point is well taken. Did Miller skip his Senior Year ( Both Semesters) or did go to HS From Aug until Christmas and then Enroll at OSU in January? The latter is becoming fairly common, but not many are simply skipping their entire sr year (and senior season) to go enroll in college. I think he just enrolled early so he could be a part of spring ball if memory serves right. Yeah, that seems to be fairly common. In this case, the kid is deciding to forgo his senior football season to enroll early. Also, makes me wonder if so many can do that (mid year enrollments or the more rare example being discussed here) just what are the necessary qualifications? |
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Post by fkaboneyard on Dec 27, 2017 0:05:36 GMT -6
Not making a criticism, just raising a question. Do you think a kid benefits physically from playing his senior year of high school, enough to warrant finishing 12th grade? I realize MD's athletes are not the athletes I typically see but there is a significant transformation in the athletes from 11th to 12th grade in the programs I've been part of.
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