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Post by gators41 on Nov 3, 2017 10:27:31 GMT -6
How important do you think this is in advancing your career?
Here are my thoughts:
Its a terrible necessity. As the game changes, so does the rules. Social media and getting out your hype message is becoming too important.
I dont even know how I would begin self promoting. Is there a classy way to do it?
FYI- I am feeling a bit petty today. I am having a hard time effectively communicating my thoughts on what I am asking here.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Nov 3, 2017 10:33:04 GMT -6
I feel the most effective promotion is to win. Not to over-simplify your OP, because in theory I understand what you're tying to say. But nothing attacts attention like a winner.
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Post by 53 on Nov 3, 2017 10:45:26 GMT -6
If that's your personality go for it, it's just not my cup of tea
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Post by gators41 on Nov 3, 2017 10:52:14 GMT -6
I feel the most effective promotion is to win. Not to over-simplify your OP, because in theory I understand what you're tying to say. But nothing attacts attention like a winner. I agree. Thats what should be. But- If you win and dont take enough credit for it, your pundits attack you. 1. He won because of a Weak Schdule 2. He won because he has Great Players 3. He won because they got lucky 4. They are good on offense or he is a good coordinator because they have a great HC You cant always just win, I feel like you have to take credit for it and I hate that. I dont want to take credit. Its the kids at the end of the day.
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Post by gators41 on Nov 3, 2017 10:57:02 GMT -6
If that's your personality go for it, it's just not my cup of tea Totally Agree. Are you a HC. Maybe you got your job the right way. I am in a very competitive State and it is not easy
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Post by stilltryin on Nov 3, 2017 11:18:55 GMT -6
I obviously don't know you Gators41, and I hope I'm wrong, but it sounds like you came on here hoping someone would justify your desire to self-promote. We've all seen plenty of that over the years, and it's never a good look. Speaking only for myself, humility is one of the traits I treasure most, right up there with integrity. Take care of the kids, the team, the program, the school, and the people who value those things will notice. Especially, as Shocktroop says, if you're winning. If whatever form of self-promotion you've been considering makes you uncomfortable, maybe that ought to tell you something.
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Post by gators41 on Nov 3, 2017 11:26:08 GMT -6
I obviously don't know you Gators41, and I hope I'm wrong, but it sounds like you came on here hoping someone would justify your desire to self-promote. We've all seen plenty of that over the years, and it's never a good look. Speaking only for myself, humility is one of the traits I treasure most, right up there with integrity. Take care of the kids, the team, the program, the school, and the people who value those things will notice. Especially, as Shocktroop says, if you're winning. If whatever form of self-promotion you've been considering makes you uncomfortable, maybe that ought to tell you something. I hope I didnt come off that way. But its a message board so I came off however you felt like I did. I am not exactly sure what I am seeking, its just a thought I have been having ever since I read The Gary Anderson article on the Scoop. I guess what I was looking for was some good advice on either A. Dont stoop to that level or B. This is the correct way to get your accomplishments out
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Post by fshamrock on Nov 3, 2017 11:42:17 GMT -6
I think that promoting yourself loudly and repeatedly is definitely good for your career. The question is how comfortable you are becoming "that guy" in order to advance yourself. If you have no qualms about it then rock on. Maybe hook me up with a job one day
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Post by shocktroop34 on Nov 3, 2017 12:09:59 GMT -6
I feel the most effective promotion is to win. Not to over-simplify your OP, because in theory I understand what you're tying to say. But nothing attacts attention like a winner. I agree. Thats what should be. But- If you win and dont take enough credit for it, your pundits attack you. 1. He won because of a Weak Schdule 2. He won because he has Great Players 3. He won because they got lucky 4. They are good on offense or he is a good coordinator because they have a great HC You cant always just win, I feel like you have to take credit for it and I hate that. I dont want to take credit. Its the kids at the end of the day. Let me ask you...what is the climate of football in your area? Is it high/moderate/low in terms of competitive football culture? Also, what strategies do you see the successful coaches (in your area) use to "promote" themselves or their programs. Not criticizing. Just wanting to get a better feel of where you're going with this thought process.
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Post by newhope on Nov 3, 2017 12:32:31 GMT -6
As a high school coach? I'm sorry, I don't see it. Maybe at higher levels there's some need for it, but at the high school level, just do your job. If you're good at it, opportunities will come. I've seen several people on this thread already refer to being "that guy" --and none of them seem to have anything positive to say about "that guy", which should tell you all you need to know.
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Post by fkaboneyard on Nov 3, 2017 12:38:44 GMT -6
It works for Lavar Ball.
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Post by veerwego on Nov 3, 2017 13:19:52 GMT -6
Coach Swinney uses this quote all the time in the Clemson program:
When you can do the common things of life in an uncommon way, you will command the attention of the world. - George Washington Carver
In an interview or a cover letter it is one thing, but I would not have some sort of self-promotion campaign. I will just be an assistant. I want to be a head coach, but I am not going to do something I tell my players not to do all the time in order to get there. We want them to be team guys that do not draw attention to themselves, so how can we do the same?
Good to Great by Jim Collins, talks about level 5 leadership. Take blame for everything, give all credit to everyone else. This is what happens the top of very successful organizations. Think Tom Brady. If you do it the right way and have some success, people will notice.
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Post by wingtol on Nov 3, 2017 13:37:16 GMT -6
If I was hiring a HC or assistant or whatever and all I heard about was I and me they aren't even a thought. Leaders speak of us and we.
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 3, 2017 18:49:36 GMT -6
How are you looking to self-promote? Are you undercutting other coaches or just tweeting about the grind multiple times a day?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 10:55:36 GMT -6
How important do you think this is in advancing your career? Here are my thoughts: Its a terrible necessity. As the game changes, so does the rules. Social media and getting out your hype message is becoming too important. I dont even know how I would begin self promoting. Is there a classy way to do it? FYI- I am feeling a bit petty today. I am having a hard time effectively communicating my thoughts on what I am asking here. I've been getting pretty cynical about this lately, but I think that a big part of becoming a HC is marketing yourself via networking and self promotion on social media. Winning is always great and will always look good, but if you're an assistant, the HC and school (rightfully) get all the credit for that because you're just an anonymous cog. Very few people outside of the school ever even learn the name of a single assistant coach on a HS team. To advance your career, it's important to find ways to stand out in a positive way and some good self promotion can be a key to that. This is something I don't really do, personally, but I feel like I need to. I post on here all the time, but I keep football off my FB because I keep it private and I know my old friends and family just aren't interested, anyway. I have a twitter but I never tweet. I don't make YouTube videos. I had a blog once upon a time when I was a newb but let it go. I feel like this stuff has cost me. I look at guys who are getting HC jobs in our area nowadays and they typically have at least two of these three things in common: 1.) An extremely impressive resume, either as a coach or a player. Usually they coach for a handful of programs or at the college level. 2.) Personal connections (they know the director of schools, principal, or AD from HS or college or whatever). 3.) They really sell themselves via social media. Now, I don't think that self promotion means you have to go the LaVar Ball route and try to tear everyone else around you down. That's a sign of a personality disorder and will always lead to a bad ending. But just putting your name out there via the things I mentioned has been good to a lot of people to market themselves and their team. I'm also realizing that HS football, to many administrators, is more about marketing than I ever realized because of how much they rely on football gate money to fund other things. Using social media doesn't really cost anything, but it lets you make a positive first impression on people before they ever actually meet them. It shows them that you know the game, are dedicated, and can market the team. Think about it: if you're trying to network at a clinic or whatever, which is going to go farther: "Hi, I'm Gators41. I'm the WR coach at Average HS," or "Hi, I'm Gators41. I'm a WR coach and I've got a blog/YouTube channel/whatever." They might have seen the latter. The former... probably not. If you're applying for a HC or coordinator gig, you can simply refer them to your online presence to check out and show them that you know your stuff and save them a bunch of questions. The other thing is that nowadays it's hard enough to get kids out and keep them out. Parents with annoying private coaches and designs on college scholarships can and will look for places where their kids are going to get "more exposure" and be "prepared for the next level." Those parents are usually huge PITA to deal with, but talent tends to attract talent, too. Self promotion can be a way in with those people.
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Post by gators41 on Nov 7, 2017 12:14:31 GMT -6
I agree. Thats what should be. But- If you win and dont take enough credit for it, your pundits attack you. 1. He won because of a Weak Schdule 2. He won because he has Great Players 3. He won because they got lucky 4. They are good on offense or he is a good coordinator because they have a great HC You cant always just win, I feel like you have to take credit for it and I hate that. I dont want to take credit. Its the kids at the end of the day. Let me ask you...what is the climate of football in your area? Is it high/moderate/low in terms of competitive football culture? Also, what strategies do you see the successful coaches (in your area) use to "promote" themselves or their programs. Not criticizing. Just wanting to get a better feel of where you're going with this thought process. Really High level of football, even the small schools will fire you, (Community Cares). Seems like coaches who are getting jobs are one of three things 1. Really good and experienced. Check. Get it 2. Really Good friends with the person doing the interviewing. Meh 3. The few jobs remaining go to the person who has the most hype.
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Post by gators41 on Nov 7, 2017 12:17:39 GMT -6
How are you looking to self-promote? Are you undercutting other coaches or just tweeting about the grind multiple times a day? I dont really know how to do it. I dont self promote at all. Have a twitter, not good at it.
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Post by **** on Nov 7, 2017 12:23:03 GMT -6
It's all about who you know.
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filmjunkie
Sophomore Member
[F4:@AlexJKirby]
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Post by filmjunkie on Nov 7, 2017 21:09:34 GMT -6
Those who don't want to play the promotional/political games will lose out on a lot of opportunities. Doesn't make it right or wrong, it's just the way it is.
Keep in mind that part of being a head coach at the HS level all the way up to the NFL is promoting your program and your guys. I once heard John Fox say something to the effect of 'An owner isn't going to hire you based on your football knowledge, he's assuming you already know how to coach. He's handing you the keys to a corporation.'
At the HS and college levels, there is a similar effect at play. If a guy isn't interested in promoting himself at all, what makes an AD think he can get people (and boosters) excited about the program (and bring in $$$)?
Again, I'm not saying there aren't plenty of guys who game the system and overdo it, but if you want to maximize your opportunities, there's a game you've gotta play a little bit.
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Post by fshamrock on Nov 8, 2017 10:16:32 GMT -6
Just to pile on...if you're going to self promote, I think it's important to at least be true to your online persona. One of the big things that annoys me about the big time twitter warrior #culturechange #grinders is that they publicly claim to be all about serving others and various bible verses, but then you hear through the grapevine about what complete a$$holes they are to everybody.
We had a game the other night and lost to a good team, the official was telling us after the game what complete jerk the other HC was....apparently while doing is regular screaming at the officials he was threatening to tell all the big name coaches he knows how bad they were (as if they GAF) fired his offensive coordinator like 3 times, and MF'ed just about every other assistant on the sidelines
naturally...his twitter page is all about being a servant leader in the mold of our lord and savior
self promote all you want to, just don't be a jerk
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Post by dubber on Nov 8, 2017 10:40:44 GMT -6
I would say networking is more important.
If you KNOW people, that has a lot more to do with your successful move up than if your have a sick twitter handle and blog.
JMO
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jbutch17
Freshmen Member
[F4:@JButch17]
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Post by jbutch17 on Nov 8, 2017 10:45:14 GMT -6
Networking is more important than winning, both with coaches and decision makers. At least here where coaching jobs are tough, wins and losses don't even matter as much as connections early on.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Nov 8, 2017 10:56:33 GMT -6
Let me ask you...what is the climate of football in your area? Is it high/moderate/low in terms of competitive football culture? Also, what strategies do you see the successful coaches (in your area) use to "promote" themselves or their programs. Not criticizing. Just wanting to get a better feel of where you're going with this thought process. Really High level of football, even the small schools will fire you, (Community Cares). Seems like coaches who are getting jobs are one of three things 1. Really good and experienced. Check. Get it 2. Really Good friends with the person doing the interviewing. Meh 3. The few jobs remaining go to the person who has the most hype. I've never been one to self-promote. Fundamentally, I feel that any coach who puts anything (including him/herself) in front of the players, has misplaced priorities. However, I can somewhat understand the frustration of seeing THAT TYPE of person get a job that he might not seem qualified to have. I'll use myself as an example. Ten years ago, I moved from the midwest to the east coast. During my first HC stint, my teams went 2-7, 4-5, 4-5. My first season in the east, our team went to the state semi's. I was a LB coach. Not a coordinator. Not a guru. Just a position coach. Immediately after my first season at my east coast school, a job opened up in our conference. I applied. I didn't even think anyone knew my name. But they did know the school I was at, as they won football games. Long story short, I went from a virtual unknown, to a guy who got a job based on my association with winners. And when I got the job, we eventually became winners. The result?...I've had three former assistants receive HC jobs based on the success of our program. And they weren't god-awful, dead-end, re-building jobs. One assistant is currently 10-0 who took over the top program in the conference with 2,000 students. Another was plucked to rebuild a program, took them to the playoffs, and has since been hired at an even bigger school to do the same. The last assistant was hired at a perrenial playoff school and has continued their success. This is not a brag or self-adulation. This is just proof that people can become HC's without the need to self-promote. None of my guys did that. I wouldn't have it. I think you'll find success quicker by helping build the program you're in. At least it worked that way for the guys I know.
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Post by Coach Vint on Nov 8, 2017 10:57:00 GMT -6
I find it best to promote your program, your kids, and the coaches you work with. When I got hired for this job the head coach knew who I was because of social media, but this never came up in the interview process. I didn't mention it and he didn't bring it up. It was all about kids, hard work, loyalty, and a willingness to be a small part of building something special. Later he mentioned that he knew who I was because of twitter. I am one who has a social media presence, but I try very hard not to self-promote. I have written books, and I do have a couple of resources I sell through social media. I do this without apology as we have some financial needs that my teaching and coaching salary does not meet. I don't post on any of this during the season. I try to focus on promoting our program, our kids, our coaches, and our game. When I apply for a job I don't ever mention my social media, blog, or any of that stuff. I try to live what I put out. I love using twitter to put out inspirational quotes and thoughts that may have a positive affect on someone's day. During bowl games I sometimes will tweet about a concept or something from a game. I enjoy retweeting great stuff I see from other coaches. I don't get too worked up when I see someone out there posting about how many D-1 players they trained, or how they gave an inspirational speech. That's their business. I am focused on our team, our players, and our coaches. I love posting tweets featuring things our players are doing on and off the field. I have some players that get a boost when they see a tweet of a big block or great tackle. Whether you are on social media or not it is vital you put the kids first and be the best coach you can be. fshamrock brings up a great point. Be true to who you are. If you social media persona doesn't match who you are as a coach and a man, you are nothing but a fraud.
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Post by veerwego on Nov 8, 2017 11:20:20 GMT -6
If you want to use social media or other avenues, promote your team. Folks will take notice. If it is not about the kids, then why do it? If a school's admin doesn't put their kids first, who wants to work there?
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Post by 60zgo on Nov 8, 2017 21:09:41 GMT -6
Maybe I'm old now or old school or whatever... Get in a great program/programs. Be loyal to your boss. Put a great product on the field. If you can make that your calling card you will get plenty of opportunities.
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Post by 54695469 on Nov 8, 2017 21:18:25 GMT -6
Just to pile on...if you're going to self promote, I think it's important to at least be true to your online persona. One of the big things that annoys me about the big time twitter warrior #culturechange #grinders is that they publicly claim to be all about serving others and various bible verses, but then you hear through the grapevine about what complete a$$holes they are to everybody. We had a game the other night and lost to a good team, the official was telling us after the game what complete jerk the other HC was....apparently while doing is regular screaming at the officials he was threatening to tell all the big name coaches he knows how bad they were (as if they GAF) fired his offensive coordinator like 3 times, and MF'ed just about every other assistant on the sidelines naturally...his twitter page is all about being a servant leader in the mold of our lord and savior self promote all you want to, just don't be a jerk Great post!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2017 8:09:51 GMT -6
Just to pile on...if you're going to self promote, I think it's important to at least be true to your online persona. One of the big things that annoys me about the big time twitter warrior #culturechange #grinders is that they publicly claim to be all about serving others and various bible verses, but then you hear through the grapevine about what complete a$$holes they are to everybody. We had a game the other night and lost to a good team, the official was telling us after the game what complete jerk the other HC was....apparently while doing is regular screaming at the officials he was threatening to tell all the big name coaches he knows how bad they were (as if they GAF) fired his offensive coordinator like 3 times, and MF'ed just about every other assistant on the sidelines naturally...his twitter page is all about being a servant leader in the mold of our lord and savior self promote all you want to, just don't be a jerk This is why I always take any coach who makes a big display of his religious beliefs with a grain of salt. Being proud of your faith is one thing, but if you feel the need to constantly show it off and wear it like a flashy suit, it makes me question how question your true motives. Getting back to the OP, I think there's a difference between promoting yourself and playing the political hoops and being a fraud or an egomaniac. The former seems to be coming a necessity now (it led me to start the blog in my .sig), while the latter still just makes you an @$$.
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 10, 2017 8:23:13 GMT -6
Just to pile on...if you're going to self promote, I think it's important to at least be true to your online persona. One of the big things that annoys me about the big time twitter warrior #culturechange #grinders is that they publicly claim to be all about serving others and various bible verses, but then you hear through the grapevine about what complete a$$holes they are to everybody. We had a game the other night and lost to a good team, the official was telling us after the game what complete jerk the other HC was....apparently while doing is regular screaming at the officials he was threatening to tell all the big name coaches he knows how bad they were (as if they GAF) fired his offensive coordinator like 3 times, and MF'ed just about every other assistant on the sidelines naturally...his twitter page is all about being a servant leader in the mold of our lord and savior self promote all you want to, just don't be a jerk This is why I always take any coach who makes a big display of his religious beliefs with a grain of salt. Being proud of your faith is one thing, but if you feel the need to constantly show it off and wear it like a flashy suit, it makes me question how question your true motives. Getting back to the OP, I think there's a difference between promoting yourself and playing the political hoops and being a fraud or an egomaniac. The former seems to be coming a necessity now (it led me to start the blog in my .sig), while the latter still just makes you an @$$. You definitely gotta have a blog.
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Post by gdoggwr on Nov 10, 2017 9:17:26 GMT -6
I don't know how much difference SELF promotion makes in my area (probably more than I think), but I think you definitely have to demonstrate the ability to be able to promote your TEAM if you want to be a head coach. Thats just the way things are now.
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