ben42
Freshmen Member
Posts: 16 
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Post by ben42 on Sept 29, 2017 6:05:29 GMT -6
How do you develop strong chemistry with this personality. On my team, I have 3 very good players with this trait. In addition, they are very vocal. They are me first and finger pointers causing strife. Are there any team building exercises that could overcome this "condition."
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Post by rsmith627 on Sept 29, 2017 6:40:50 GMT -6
I don't have a solution, but am following. We have a lot of these kids in our program right now from 7th grade all the way up through varsity. We are a school that has had a very strong culture, but that culture seems to slowly be changing.
The answer is to adapt and learn how to coach today's athlete where this is going to become more and more prevalent. The question then, is what does that need to look like?
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 29, 2017 8:04:55 GMT -6
How do you develop strong chemistry with this personality. On my team, I have 3 very good players with this trait. In addition, they are very vocal. They are me first and finger pointers causing strife. Are there any team building exercises that could overcome this "condition." Well, the next it happens you can a team building up-down session, log roll the length of the field get-to-know-you, or a think-pair-share buddy carry up and down the field |
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Post by ogre5530 on Sept 29, 2017 8:10:49 GMT -6
The tone has to be set that the finger pointing and starting a strife within the team is not acceptable. It starts with the HC to nip that in the butt and if Jimmy All-star has to be made an example then so be it. The rest of the team will fall in line and respect you more as a coach when they see it is not tolerated to be a total ME guy.
I feel you my man. We have a lot of that at the school I'm at. Unfortunately, I do what I can with at as the OC, but I'm not the one calling shots over the whole program.
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Post by olcoach53 on Sept 29, 2017 8:14:01 GMT -6
Dealing with similar issues. Really curious what people have to say about this topic.
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coacht
Sophomore Member
Posts: 221
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Post by coacht on Sept 29, 2017 8:18:23 GMT -6
I'll be the first one to rip a$$ if one of our kids starts to point fingers or jump on another kid. Do your own job right then maybe you can call others out. Until then worry about doing your job, but you still want kids to hold each other accountable.
That's our problem this year, we have too many nice guys. Somebody messes up and we have 20 kids go tap on the shoulder and say "it's ok."
WTF, NO!!!! It's not okay... what he just did is exactly why we lost last week. There's fine line between accountability and finger pointing, but sometimes I wish our guys would toe that line a little bit.
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Post by 54695469 on Sept 29, 2017 8:55:14 GMT -6
How can so many coaches post on here about issues with kids attitudes. I thought everyone spent the entire last off-season "changing the culture" of their program's.
Randy Jackson's book was supposed to cure all of this... smh
Looking forward to next off-season's fad/buzzword.
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Post by 54695469 on Sept 29, 2017 9:03:08 GMT -6
I feel you my man. We have a lot of that at the school I'm at. Unfortunately, I do what I can with at as the OC, but I'm not the one calling shots over the whole program. Way to pass the buck, man... Not my fault, I'm just the OC. I'd have already fixed this stuff. |
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Post by silkyice on Sept 29, 2017 9:04:49 GMT -6
I don't have any solutions really, but just coach them all up on every detail all the time and I lot of this will take care of itself.
I didn't really even realize that we did this. I just thought it was coaching. But one of my assistants left this summer for another job. He got engaged and they needed to move to a central location more than an hour away.
Anyways, one of the things he told me when he left was that he loves how we get onto the best players just like we do all of them. And that it isn't hollering or screaming, it is just coaching. It can be during a drill, scrimmaging, game, or film, if something isn't done right we point it out.
It could be stance, hand position, fake, first step, eye discipline, reading keys, whatever. But if it isn't the way it supposed to be, we tell them.
Meaning, the kids can't really finger point nothing because we as coaches are on them.
I will say that when kids know exactly what is expected of them and they know what to do in all situations, they will give effort and have good attitudes.
Now we aren't perfect. We were terrible last year. Mainly because we only had two seniors and they weren't even close to our top players. I have no real solution for other people's problems and situations.
But honestly, I don't coach attitude or effort very much. Never have really. We talk a lot more about focus and doing it right. Teach them what to do and hold them accountable every time. All of them.
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Post by 54695469 on Sept 29, 2017 10:00:50 GMT -6
But honestly, I don't coach attitude or effort very much. Never have really. We talk a lot more about focus and doing it right. Teach them what to do and hold them accountable every time. All of them. Amen. |
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Post by brophy on Sept 29, 2017 10:09:12 GMT -6
Are there any team building exercises that could overcome this "condition." try the exercise "cut the cancer" |
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Post by fshamrock on Sept 29, 2017 10:15:10 GMT -6
split them up into teams or "battalions" and then give them tasks to complete in their "battalion" where they get points, have a catchy acronym or saying, tweet a lot about family, schedule the weakest teams possible and win some games...boom...you are a bona-fide identified culture changer my man, prepare to bask in the glory that comes with the title, if it looks like you are about to maybe not win many because you have a bad class coming, find an excuse to leave that family immediately and start a new family at a different school....repeat the process...profit
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 29, 2017 10:47:05 GMT -6
I don't have any solutions really, but just coach them all up on every detail all the time and I lot of this will take care of itself. I didn't really even realize that we did this. I just thought it was coaching. But one of my assistants left this summer for another job. He got engaged and they needed to move to a central location more than an hour away. Anyways, one of the things he told me when he left was that he loves how we get onto the best players just like we do all of them. And that it isn't hollering or screaming, it is just coaching. It can be during a drill, scrimmaging, game, or film, if something isn't done right we point it out. It could be stance, hand position, fake, first step, eye discipline, reading keys, whatever. But if it isn't the way it supposed to be, we tell them. Meaning, the kids can't really finger point nothing because we as coaches are on them. I will say that when kids know exactly what is expected of them and they know what to do in all situations, they will give effort and have good attitudes. Now we aren't perfect. We were terrible last year. Mainly because we only had two seniors and they weren't even close to our top players. I have no real solution for other people's problems and situations. But honestly, I don't coach attitude or effort very much. Never have really. We talk a lot more about focus and doing it right. Teach them what to do and hold them accountable every time. All of them. One of our coaches stated this along this line of thinking, "If we're not coaching our best players, then we're not coaching any of our players" |
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ben42
Freshmen Member
Posts: 16
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Post by ben42 on Sept 29, 2017 11:18:42 GMT -6
A little background. We took over a team that had not won a game in three years. The 3 years prior to this, the team was lucky to win more than two. Part of the problem was numbers. The prior teams were lucky to field 15 players. We were able to increase numbers to close to 30, but like some have mentioned, we were easier on the kids. We have had some success with a 3-3 record. Now, I am willing to take some of the blame by not being tough enough; however, there is more than one dynamic working here. Running off the best players is probably not an option. My mission as a junior high coach, is not only winning, but to move numbers on to the varsity. Next year, when we know the kids better, we will be more dialed in to these type of behaviors. In the meantime, if anyone knows any team building exercises, please share.
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Post by Down 'n Out on Sept 29, 2017 11:22:16 GMT -6
Are there any team building exercises that could overcome this "condition." try the exercise "cut the cancer" You mean Oklahoma Drill? |
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Post by ogre5530 on Sept 29, 2017 12:23:42 GMT -6
I feel you my man. We have a lot of that at the school I'm at. Unfortunately, I do what I can with at as the OC, but I'm not the one calling shots over the whole program. Way to pass the buck, man... Not my fault, I'm just the OC. I'd have already fixed this stuff. I wish I had the authority to undermine the HC and do what he decides, but that's not how I roll buck. If he's in charge I do what I can in the situations. I talk to the kid about ways to be a better teammate and how such narcissistic things can be detrimental to the team, but at the end of the day I can't decide what would be appropriate punishment for lingering issues. I can only suggest. That's my role as assistant coach. |
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Post by silkyice on Sept 29, 2017 12:46:58 GMT -6
split them up into teams or "battalions" and then give them tasks to complete in their "battalion" where they get points, have a catchy acronym or saying, tweet a lot about family, schedule the weakest teams possible and win some games...boom...you are a bona-fide identified culture changer my man, prepare to bask in the glory that comes with the title, if it looks like you are about to maybe not win many because you have a bad class coming, find an excuse to leave that family immediately and start a new family at a different school....repeat the process...profit I was reading this at first and started rolling my eyes and then caught the sarcasm. Brilliant. |
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Post by breakerdog on Sept 29, 2017 14:06:45 GMT -6
In my other job I am a manager of a large group of people for a large company. I work with all kinds of personalities and have won some hard learned lessons as well as getting some very good training about leadership. There has been lots of really good information coming out over the last few years about this. If you really want a great book to read on this subject check out www.amazon.com/Borderline-Narcissistic-Schizoid-Adaptations-Admiration/dp/1537334220I just recently read this, so my insights on this are heavily influenced by her and I don't claim to have thought of any of this myself, I am paraphrasing. Narcissism is a learned behavior, they are not sick. They are not victims of a mental illness. Generally speaking, they are covering for some kind of anxiety or lack of self confidence. It's not your job to try and "fix" this person. It's your job to keep them focused, on task and prevent them from disrupting the team. Here are some actual takeaways you can use when dealing with these situations. Number one most important thing is to keep your own sh*t wired tight. Don't lose your temper and keep your emotional level down. Don't let them get away with generalizations. Don't accept words like "always" and "never". If your RB says that the OL never blocks for him, ask specifics. Which play, which game etc. Your QB says that Jimmy always drops the ball. Ask him specifics, make them commit to their statements. What they want is smear everyone and everything with blame and doubt. Be Columbo, ask dumb questions, ask them to explain it to you. Write it down for future reference. Don't try to counter them and be the smart guy, just keep making them get into logic and specifics mode rather than grandiose words and hosing down everything with their crap. Coach them constantly on their ability to help the team with good behavior and good performance. Talk to them privately about how you see great things in them and how positively they can affect the team. Essentially appeal to their vanity and use it for good. Create self talk for them about being a team leader and never quitting, rather than their current self talk about hiding behind blame. Encourage them to share the credit when things go well. It's the polar opposite of blaming when things go bad. Praise them for doing non flashy team supportive things in film sessions. "Look at Johnny on this ball fake, see how he kept the LB pinned and out of the play" Give them specific goals. Narcissists are very ambitious and driven. If you can help them harness that work ethic for good, you can really make a difference on your team and in the kids life. After all this, it needs to be said that the best cure for some of your problem kids is graduation. |
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 29, 2017 14:09:54 GMT -6
Or just get rid of them instead of wasting all your time baby footing around 3 {censored} that probably quit when the going gets tough anyway.
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ben42
Freshmen Member
Posts: 16
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Post by ben42 on Sept 29, 2017 17:22:33 GMT -6
In my other job I am a manager of a large group of people for a large company. I work with all kinds of personalities and have won some hard learned lessons as well as getting some very good training about leadership. There has been lots of really good information coming out over the last few years about this. If you really want a great book to read on this subject check out www.amazon.com/Borderline-Narcissistic-Schizoid-Adaptations-Admiration/dp/1537334220I just recently read this, so my insights on this are heavily influenced by her and I don't claim to have thought of any of this myself, I am paraphrasing. Narcissism is a learned behavior, they are not sick. They are not victims of a mental illness. Generally speaking, they are covering for some kind of anxiety or lack of self confidence. It's not your job to try and "fix" this person. It's your job to keep them focused, on task and prevent them from disrupting the team. Here are some actual takeaways you can use when dealing with these situations. Number one most important thing is to keep your own sh*t wired tight. Don't lose your temper and keep your emotional level down. Don't let them get away with generalizations. Don't accept words like "always" and "never". If your RB says that the OL never blocks for him, ask specifics. Which play, which game etc. Your QB says that Jimmy always drops the ball. Ask him specifics, make them commit to their statements. What they want is smear everyone and everything with blame and doubt. Be Columbo, ask dumb questions, ask them to explain it to you. Write it down for future reference. Don't try to counter them and be the smart guy, just keep making them get into logic and specifics mode rather than grandiose words and hosing down everything with their crap. Coach them constantly on their ability to help the team with good behavior and good performance. Talk to them privately about how you see great things in them and how positively they can affect the team. Essentially appeal to their vanity and use it for good. Create self talk for them about being a team leader and never quitting, rather than their current self talk about hiding behind blame. Encourage them to share the credit when things go well. It's the polar opposite of blaming when things go bad. Praise them for doing non flashy team supportive things in film sessions. "Look at Johnny on this ball fake, see how he kept the LB pinned and out of the play" Give them specific goals. Narcissists are very ambitious and driven. If you can help them harness that work ethic for good, you can really make a difference on your team and in the kids life. After all this, it needs to be said that the best cure for some of your problem kids is graduation. Excellent. Just what I was looking for. |
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Post by silkyice on Sept 29, 2017 17:59:44 GMT -6
split them up into teams or "battalions" and then give them tasks to complete in their "battalion" where they get points, have a catchy acronym or saying, tweet a lot about family, schedule the weakest teams possible and win some games...boom...you are a bona-fide identified culture changer my man, prepare to bask in the glory that comes with the title, if it looks like you are about to maybe not win many because you have a bad class coming, find an excuse to leave that family immediately and start a new family at a different school....repeat the process...profit So which one is cooler now: Row boating culture changer Visor wearing spread gunslinging guru Tobacco spitting cussing hat backward D coordinator What say ye? |
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Post by fantom on Sept 29, 2017 21:53:00 GMT -6
We had a guy tonight who fits into this category perfectly. The guy's marginal player, formerly a part time starter at center who lost his job based on performance but he's been working some as a 3rd down pass rushing DT. At halftime of tonight's game we were down 24-0. We were physically kicking their a$$ but we gave up some big plays all on mental errors. I had just talked to the defense, telling them that it was the most frustrating game in my career, and reviewing what we had to do.
After I was done, the kid walks up to me and asks me to put him in. I ask him if he's kidding and he says that he's not. i start turning purple but keep my cool and tell him to walk away. The kids around him are telling him to shut up and pulling him away and finally he does. As I'm walking out of the locker room he grabs me again and starts at it again saying, "this isn't working". Even if he was right (and he wasn't. Our DL is the best part of the team) that's still pretty clueless. The only good thing is that he has zero supporters.
Don't mean to hijack the thread but I had to get that off my chest.
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Post by tippecanoe41 on Sept 30, 2017 0:13:01 GMT -6
How do you develop strong chemistry with this personality. On my team, I have 3 very good players with this trait. In addition, they are very vocal. They are me first and finger pointers causing strife. Are there any team building exercises that could overcome this "condition." This is my explanation, having never been a head coach. I know there are other ways to do it, but this is who I'd do it if I was HC. Are these guys perfect? I mean, they never mess up their assignments? We have guys do this, but then when I show them on film how they messed up such and such, it always recedes. I'd be hard on these finger pointers to make them know that they are not perfect. As an assistant I've always hated when players would try to get on other players. None of them are ever even CLOSE to perfect so how do they become so narcissistic that they think that they are in a position to call out these players? It's wild. |
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Post by jgordon1 on Sept 30, 2017 6:36:28 GMT -6
Having been a HC for a couple of years and a long time asst. I have seen this attitude many times. Like the OP says its generally the best kids on the team. My observation is, is that this behavior is tolerated because of the apparent talent of the individuals. IMO,these behaviors need to be confronted each and every time. Like ben42 alludes to up top it doesn't have to be a negative deal. this behavior manifests itself in many ways..2 minutes late to practice...taking themselves out of a drill..not paying attention..again the behavior needs to be redirected...Now..this might seem like passing the buck but the HC MUST be the one to lead this confrontation..if an asst confronts but the HC doesn't "have his back" it ain't going to work.. |
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Post by 19delta on Sept 30, 2017 7:18:21 GMT -6
How can so many coaches post on here about issues with kids attitudes. I thought everyone spent the entire last off-season "changing the culture" of their program's. Randy Jackson's book was supposed to cure all of this... smh Looking forward to next off-season's fad/buzzword. Row the boat, man!  |
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Post by blb on Sept 30, 2017 7:21:41 GMT -6
Looking forward to next off-season's fad/buzzword. Row the boat, man!
Puh-leeze....
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Post by silkyice on Sept 30, 2017 8:29:56 GMT -6
split them up into teams or "battalions" and then give them tasks to complete in their "battalion" where they get points, have a catchy acronym or saying, tweet a lot about family, schedule the weakest teams possible and win some games...boom...you are a bona-fide identified culture changer my man, prepare to bask in the glory that comes with the title, if it looks like you are about to maybe not win many because you have a bad class coming, find an excuse to leave that family immediately and start a new family at a different school....repeat the process...profit So which one is cooler now: Row boating culture changer Visor wearing spread gunslinging guru Tobacco spitting cussing hat backward D coordinator What say ye? Wait, I have absolutely discovered the coolest type of football coach ever. The Turnover Troll Coach!! I want to be the guy that gives out the championship belt, or trash can, or gold chain, or hammer to the guy that just got a turnover. What could be cooler than that! I especially want to be that guy when we are down 50-0 and our 1st string DE recovers a bad pitch by their freshman 3rd string qb to their 4th string tailback. I will go NUTZ when that happens! |
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Post by 53 on Sept 30, 2017 8:46:22 GMT -6
So which one is cooler now: Row boating culture changer Visor wearing spread gunslinging guru Tobacco spitting cussing hat backward D coordinator What say ye? Wait, I have absolutely discovered the coolest type of football coach ever. The Turnover Troll Coach!! I want to be the guy that gives out the championship belt, or trash can, or gold chain, or hammer to the guy that just got a turnover. What could be cooler than that! I especially want to be that guy when we are down 50-0 and our 1st string DE recovers a bad pitch by their freshman 3rd string qb to their 4th string tailback. I will go NUTZ when that happens! I'll sell you a Butch Jones pretty cheap then. |
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Post by silkyice on Sept 30, 2017 8:48:13 GMT -6
Wait, I have absolutely discovered the coolest type of football coach ever. The Turnover Troll Coach!! I want to be the guy that gives out the championship belt, or trash can, or gold chain, or hammer to the guy that just got a turnover. What could be cooler than that! I especially want to be that guy when we are down 50-0 and our 1st string DE recovers a bad pitch by their freshman 3rd string qb to their 4th string tailback. I will go NUTZ when that happens! I'll sell you a Butch Jones pretty cheap then. 😂😂😂 |
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ben42
Freshmen Member
Posts: 16
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Post by ben42 on Sept 30, 2017 11:59:55 GMT -6
Lots of good ideas. Thank you!
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