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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 12:21:25 GMT -6
In my other job I am a manager of a large group of people for a large company. I work with all kinds of personalities and have won some hard learned lessons as well as getting some very good training about leadership. There has been lots of really good information coming out over the last few years about this. If you really want a great book to read on this subject check out www.amazon.com/Borderline-Narcissistic-Schizoid-Adaptations-Admiration/dp/1537334220I just recently read this, so my insights on this are heavily influenced by her and I don't claim to have thought of any of this myself, I am paraphrasing. Narcissism is a learned behavior, they are not sick. They are not victims of a mental illness. Generally speaking, they are covering for some kind of anxiety or lack of self confidence. It's not your job to try and "fix" this person. It's your job to keep them focused, on task and prevent them from disrupting the team. Here are some actual takeaways you can use when dealing with these situations. Number one most important thing is to keep your own sh*t wired tight. Don't lose your temper and keep your emotional level down. Don't let them get away with generalizations. Don't accept words like "always" and "never". If your RB says that the OL never blocks for him, ask specifics. Which play, which game etc. Your QB says that Jimmy always drops the ball. Ask him specifics, make them commit to their statements. What they want is smear everyone and everything with blame and doubt. Be Columbo, ask dumb questions, ask them to explain it to you. Write it down for future reference. Don't try to counter them and be the smart guy, just keep making them get into logic and specifics mode rather than grandiose words and hosing down everything with their crap. Coach them constantly on their ability to help the team with good behavior and good performance. Talk to them privately about how you see great things in them and how positively they can affect the team. Essentially appeal to their vanity and use it for good. Create self talk for them about being a team leader and never quitting, rather than their current self talk about hiding behind blame. Encourage them to share the credit when things go well. It's the polar opposite of blaming when things go bad. Praise them for doing non flashy team supportive things in film sessions. "Look at Johnny on this ball fake, see how he kept the LB pinned and out of the play" Give them specific goals. Narcissists are very ambitious and driven. If you can help them harness that work ethic for good, you can really make a difference on your team and in the kids life. After all this, it needs to be said that the best cure for some of your problem kids is graduation. My wife is a therapist and deals with people like this every day in her job. This is excellent advice, coach! One of the best things I've ever seen posted on this board. However, if they have a real personality disorder (about 1 in 5 people meet the criteria) the behavior is ingrained pretty deeply. They typically go back to patterns that were learned in early childhood, often from negligent parents who blamed the kid for everything, so the kid learned the habit early and it's a core part of his identity by the time you meet him. You have to really enforce boundaries along with all this stuff about flipping their thinking and challenging them to be logical and specific. If you confront them head on about their narcissism and cancerous behavior in the heat of the moment, they'll just balk and escalate things. You have to get them to see the team success and unity as in their own selfish best interest. Get them to see what's in it for them. Ideals about teamwork and humility will get you nowhere. People like this think in black and white about everything: you're either a great coach (because you make them feel superior) or you're a moron. Their teammates are great (because they make the narcissist look good and feel good) or they're pitiful and can never do anything right, etc. A loss may make them feeling the season's a lost cause or they may think they're unstoppable because they have a good game. Sometimes they can flip back back and forth on these issues in a day. In the end, enforcing boundaries is absolutely critical, as people like this love to start drama to assert themselves, make it all about them, and feel in control and powerful. If you say something is absolutely unacceptable, explain clear consequences and then follow through when they violate that but in a dispassionate, businesslike way. A lot of times, people like this can't function in a cooperative team environment for long. If you track them over the course of their lives, they might be highly successful professionally due to their drive and talent (and skill for manipulating others), but there will be tons of drama and instability in their personal lives due to their inability to get along with others.
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Post by joris85 on Sept 30, 2017 14:34:52 GMT -6
split them up into teams or "battalions" and then give them tasks to complete in their "battalion" where they get points, have a catchy acronym or saying, tweet a lot about family, schedule the weakest teams possible and win some games...boom...you are a bona-fide identified culture changer my man, prepare to bask in the glory that comes with the title, if it looks like you are about to maybe not win many because you have a bad class coming, find an excuse to leave that family immediately and start a new family at a different school....repeat the process...profit I was reading this at first and started rolling my eyes and then caught the sarcasm. Brilliant. Read up to battalion, stopped reading, then read your response, this time read post completely, laughed out loud.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 14:51:37 GMT -6
So which one is cooler now: Row boating culture changer Visor wearing spread gunslinging guru Tobacco spitting cussing hat backward D coordinator What say ye? Wait, I have absolutely discovered the coolest type of football coach ever. The Turnover Troll Coach!! I want to be the guy that gives out the championship belt, or trash can, or gold chain, or hammer to the guy that just got a turnover. What could be cooler than that! I especially want to be that guy when we are down 50-0 and our 1st string DE recovers a bad pitch by their freshman 3rd string qb to their 4th string tailback. I will go NUTZ when that happens! If you can recruit, there might be a job in Knoxville for you soon. Just memorize a bunch of Tony Robbins quotes and you'll be good to go.
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Post by freezeoption on Sept 30, 2017 15:36:24 GMT -6
had a team of 10 players a couple of years ago, had the finger pointing crap, stopped what we were doing, everyone held hands and ran hills shouting our mascot on the way up and way down, cant remember how long, probably a half hour since I was already pissed that day, didn't win a game, but never had finger pointing again
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Post by s73 on Sept 30, 2017 18:36:26 GMT -6
How do you develop strong chemistry with this personality. On my team, I have 3 very good players with this trait. In addition, they are very vocal. They are me first and finger pointers causing strife. Are there any team building exercises that could overcome this "condition." The best I got is to pump up the guys that don't do it and point out that they don't do it. Promote the leaders on your team that aren't like that regardless of ability. This year we have good leadership but next year we will have issues so we are already working that angle with our guys in next years group. I know sitting guys is sometimes the answer, but in todays day and age of declining numbers many of us can't afford to do it. So, I really try to do what I said above and have had some good results. In reality though, this does seem to be a trend that may not change. Football is an endangered game and I don't think concussions are the only reason. I think narcissism is definitely another issue that is growing. JMO
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Post by 53 on Sept 30, 2017 19:06:27 GMT -6
Wait, I have absolutely discovered the coolest type of football coach ever. The Turnover Troll Coach!! I want to be the guy that gives out the championship belt, or trash can, or gold chain, or hammer to the guy that just got a turnover. What could be cooler than that! I especially want to be that guy when we are down 50-0 and our 1st string DE recovers a bad pitch by their freshman 3rd string qb to their 4th string tailback. I will go NUTZ when that happens! If you can recruit, there might be a job in Knoxville for you soon. Just memorize a bunch of Tony Robbins quotes and you'll be good to go. I'd take him to finish the season
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 19:42:51 GMT -6
If you can recruit, there might be a job in Knoxville for you soon. Just memorize a bunch of Tony Robbins quotes and you'll be good to go. I'd take him to finish the season I don't want to pile on another coach... but I'd take Smokey and a copy of "Football for Dummies" to finish the season at this point. I'll give Butch credit. He and his staff can recruit pretty well. Unfortunately, that's about all they can do right. It's like his assistants, especially his DCs, forget how to actually develop talent when they get there. I'm sure that UT will find a way to underwhelm the fans again by not wanting to pay the money it would take to bring a big time coach into Knoxville, though. I saw an estimate that it would cost around $11 million to let Butch & Co. go after the season.
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Post by 53 on Sept 30, 2017 20:30:41 GMT -6
I'd take him to finish the season I don't want to pile on another coach... but I'd take Smokey and a copy of "Football for Dummies" to finish the season at this point. I'll give Butch credit. He and his staff can recruit pretty well. Unfortunately, that's about all they can do right. It's like his assistants, especially his DCs, forget how to actually develop talent when they get there. I'm sure that UT will find a way to underwhelm the fans again by not wanting to pay the money it would take to bring a big time coach into Knoxville, though. I saw an estimate that it would cost around $11 million to let Butch & Co. go after the season. Hard to believe we basically had a done deal with a Gruden and Hart and Cheek went on their own and got Butch over control and power concerns.
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Post by silkyice on Sept 30, 2017 20:35:35 GMT -6
I don't want to pile on another coach... but I'd take Smokey and a copy of "Football for Dummies" to finish the season at this point. I'll give Butch credit. He and his staff can recruit pretty well. Unfortunately, that's about all they can do right. It's like his assistants, especially his DCs, forget how to actually develop talent when they get there. I'm sure that UT will find a way to underwhelm the fans again by not wanting to pay the money it would take to bring a big time coach into Knoxville, though. I saw an estimate that it would cost around $11 million to let Butch & Co. go after the season. Hard to believe we basically had a done deal with a Gruden and Hart and Cheek went on their own and got Butch over control and power concerns. It could be worse. You could have EO and be a LSU fan. Auburn and Bama fan here. Went to Auburn and live in Tuscaloosa.
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Post by fantom on Sept 30, 2017 20:52:57 GMT -6
Guys, you do realize that most of us don't care if they hire Davey Crockett?
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Post by silkyice on Sept 30, 2017 20:58:50 GMT -6
Guys, you do realize that most of us don't care if they hire Davey Crockett? True, but he couldn’t do worse!! 😂😂😂
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Post by tippecanoe41 on Sept 30, 2017 22:52:55 GMT -6
How do you develop strong chemistry with this personality. On my team, I have 3 very good players with this trait. In addition, they are very vocal. They are me first and finger pointers causing strife. Are there any team building exercises that could overcome this "condition." Only thing I've noticed that seems to help a bit is to have film sessions and make sure that you show these guys what they did wrong. You have to tell them in front of the whole team that they aren't perfect, etc. Now, I'm not a HC, but I'd jiust bench or cut these type of guys. Addition by subtraction. I can't stand that attitude of narcissism and I'd rather lose with guys who would die for the team than when with guys who only care about themselves. That is no sustainable, so I shouldn't get used to it year by year.
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Post by badtotheflexbone on Oct 1, 2017 3:39:37 GMT -6
Way to pass the buck, man... Not my fault, I'm just the OC. I'd have already fixed this stuff. I wish I had the authority to undermine the HC and do what he decides, but that's not how I roll buck. If he's in charge I do what I can in the situations. I talk to the kid about ways to be a better teammate and how such narcissistic things can be detrimental to the team, but at the end of the day I can't decide what would be appropriate punishment for lingering issues. I can only suggest. That's my role as assistant coach. Undermining the HC is a thing of the past, see thread regarding "Backdooring HC" in the Advice/classroom section of the forum
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Post by fshamrock on Oct 2, 2017 9:20:10 GMT -6
split them up into teams or "battalions" and then give them tasks to complete in their "battalion" where they get points, have a catchy acronym or saying, tweet a lot about family, schedule the weakest teams possible and win some games...boom...you are a bona-fide identified culture changer my man, prepare to bask in the glory that comes with the title, if it looks like you are about to maybe not win many because you have a bad class coming, find an excuse to leave that family immediately and start a new family at a different school....repeat the process...profit So which one is cooler now: Row boating culture changer Visor wearing spread gunslinging guru Tobacco spitting cussing hat backward D coordinator What say ye? That's a tough one there mi hermano Culture changer is the current rage, to the point where I think the visor guys are getting a little upset, but hey they had a pretty good run, hat backward D coordinator is a fixture that has outlasted fads as they come and go so I gotta give them some extra cool points, bonus points if they throw around a lot of references to WAR! and refer to the field as "my field"
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 2, 2017 10:58:39 GMT -6
So which one is cooler now: Row boating culture changer Visor wearing spread gunslinging guru Tobacco spitting cussing hat backward D coordinator What say ye? That's a tough one there mi hermano Culture changer is the current rage, to the point where I think the visor guys are getting a little upset, but hey they had a pretty good run, hat backward D coordinator is a fixture that has outlasted fads as they come and go so I gotta give them some extra cool points, bonus points if they throw around a lot of references to WAR! and refer to the field as "my field" It depends on what defense the backward hat D coordinator is running. I view these men as the visor wearers of the defensive world, which means they're running the TCU 4-2-5 or the triple stack usually (defensive equivalent of facemelter).
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Post by fshamrock on Oct 2, 2017 11:54:37 GMT -6
That's a tough one there mi hermano Culture changer is the current rage, to the point where I think the visor guys are getting a little upset, but hey they had a pretty good run, hat backward D coordinator is a fixture that has outlasted fads as they come and go so I gotta give them some extra cool points, bonus points if they throw around a lot of references to WAR! and refer to the field as "my field" It depends on what defense the backward hat D coordinator is running. I view these men as the visor wearers of the defensive world, which means they're running the TCU 4-2-5 or the triple stack usually (defensive equivalent of facemelter). when two teams running the 3-3 stack play, the score is 0-0 into the 7th overtime, it is won by a safety
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 2, 2017 11:56:11 GMT -6
It depends on what defense the backward hat D coordinator is running. I view these men as the visor wearers of the defensive world, which means they're running the TCU 4-2-5 or the triple stack usually (defensive equivalent of facemelter). when two teams running the 3-3 stack play, the score is 0-0 into the 7th overtime, it is won by a safety What if said teams also run the facemelter? I once heard both teams forfeit in that scenario, in order to maintain the safety of spectators.
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