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Post by 19delta on May 22, 2017 20:42:03 GMT -6
Are all AAu teams "big bucks" ?? From what I see on the website, to be an AAU athlete, it is like 14 bucks. I know that some travel teams/aau teams etc require big bucks, but is it universal? If kids are only paying $14 to play, who is paying the entry fees for tournaments? Warm-ups and gear bags? Shoes? Hotel rooms? Food? Gas money? Are there sponsors? Are there going to be sponsors for crappy teams made up of kids who aren't even good enough to play for the local high school team?
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Post by 19delta on May 22, 2017 20:51:04 GMT -6
Are all AAu teams "big bucks" ?? From what I see on the website, to be an AAU athlete, it is like 14 bucks. I know that some travel teams/aau teams etc require big bucks, but is it universal? If kids are only paying $14 to play, who is paying the entry fees for tournaments? Warm-ups and gear bags? Shoes? Hotel rooms? Food? Gas money? Are there sponsors? Are there going to be sponsors for crappy teams made up of kids who aren't even good enough to play for the local high school team? Here's the fee schedule for a team some of our kids play for: www.rockfordbasketball.org/page/show/1052094-registration-fees
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Post by utchuckd on May 23, 2017 5:37:25 GMT -6
Is that legal in your state? I'm pretty sure that in Illinois, coaches of school-sponsored teams can't coach their own players out-of-season except for designated contact times. Same here, at least to an extent. I think there's some kind of rule about less than half the players can be from your school team. Maybe @coacharnold can chime in here, since he's a girls' basketball coach now he probably knows the rules.
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tbel57
Freshmen Member
Posts: 96
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Post by tbel57 on May 23, 2017 5:48:54 GMT -6
I feel the same way about travel baseball and softball.
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Post by coachfloyd on May 23, 2017 6:06:32 GMT -6
Speaking of scholarships how many get full rides? How many just end up breaking even with all they spent? So many parents use the travel teams for all sports thinking it will lead to scholarships. How many spend 10k over a lifetime to save 1k a semester. And that's for the really good ones. Depends. Men's and Women's D1 basketball and Women's D1 Volleyball are all full schollies by rule. To be clear, I am NOT suggesting that kids should shell out all this money to play AAU or that the parents who chase schollies are sane. I was just providing facts. But that's my point. How many of those are there? In 13 years of coaching I've had more UA/Army all Americans than D1 basketball players. My qb last year was a better basketball player than fb player. Had 10 D1 football offers. 0 D1 basketball offers. Ended up going d2 to do both. Kid the year before was all state and two time region poy. Had 0 D1 offers. Had two D1 fb offers. And just to be clear this isn't some small town basketball. They play legit competition. If the kids just want to play I got no problem with that. But that's not the reason they give. They "had" to travel four states over to play in front of scouts. They probably played AAU for 8-10 years. They spent a crap load of money for very little return. And these are two of the best basketball players I've been around. Baseball is is even worse. Kids around here start as young as 6-7 paying 800-1000 per season. So that's at least 8,000 to just save a grand a semester. Not to mention equipment, travel, food, etc. As with all things in life most of these parents do it without thinking it through.
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Post by blb on May 23, 2017 6:17:26 GMT -6
There are a lot of guys getting rich off kids playing Doc Rivers or Joe Maddon.
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Post by silkyice on May 23, 2017 7:20:38 GMT -6
Son, there isn't a college in America that is looking for a 6'4" post player.
But every college in America is looking for a 6'4" receiver.
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Post by blb on May 23, 2017 7:25:11 GMT -6
Most of us on here probably have stories about losing kids to AAU Basketball, Travel Baseball, etc.
For example, one of my former players who's now coaching had their Senior-to-be QB (started as Junior) quit to play in a Fall Baseball league.
The point is, it's not going to change - may get worse - and as Football coaches not much we can do about it except sell our sport as best we can and focus on the kids who do want to play, not those who aren't there.
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Post by wingtol on May 23, 2017 7:38:29 GMT -6
We have a junior hockey team in town here that is very good right now, if you don't know it's like major D1 for a comparison the McDavid kid from the Oilers played here for 4 years I think so top notch talent. So any ways I got to reading about the league and hockey in Canada and how it has become a sport of the wealthy, the times of the Canadian farm boy playing on a frozen pond are long gone due to the rise of travel teams, elite clubs, etc. Basically most people are priced out of the game now and it's basically rich kids skating against each other. Kids who can't afford all the extra stuff have almost no chance of success in the game.
I know it's an expensive sport but I feel like we are starting to go that way with certain sports here now. Talked to a guy who had a relative that spent like 10k on summer travel baseball for his 10 year old! As more and more of these sports move toward the elite travel teams and what not how long till kids can't afford to be good at some sports? Will some sports become rich kid sports just due to the outside of high school elements that are becoming more and more prevalent?
Someone mentioned AAU like football, would kids even be able to afford that? Would they get lost if they couldn't get the exposure from a team like that?
Crazy times in youth and HS sports now.
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Post by silkyice on May 23, 2017 7:54:48 GMT -6
My qb last year was a better basketball player than fb player. Had 10 D1 football offers. 0 D1 basketball offers. Ended up going d2 to do both. Kid the year before was all state and two time region poy. Had 0 D1 offers. Had two D1 fb offers. And just to be clear this isn't some small town basketball. They play legit competition. If the kids just want to play I got no problem with that. But that's not the reason they give. They "had" to travel four states over to play in front of scouts. They probably played AAU for 8-10 years. They spent a crap load of money for very little return. And these are two of the best basketball players I've been around. Baseball is is even worse. Kids around here start as young as 6-7 paying 800-1000 per season. So that's at least 8,000 to just save a grand a semester. Not to mention equipment, travel, food, etc. As with all things in life most of these parents do it without thinking it through. Since I have been coaching, we have played against two NBA guys. But the best high school bball player we ever played against was a 5'10 (probably 5'9), guard that we literally could not stop. Had 35 in the area championship against us and then 45 the next week in the regional championship. We were box and 1 on him the whole time. We played him in football also. He was good, but not one of the best high school football players we have played against. We have played against numerous NFL players and SEC players. Anyways, the kid had no d1 bball offers. He was a better basketball player than football player in high school. But has been a cornerback in the NFL for 9 years and just signed a 3 year contract. So what would his life have been like if he went the AAU route?
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Post by silkyice on May 23, 2017 8:43:40 GMT -6
This is from a Facebook post I made back in February.
I'm just going to say it. Any coach who is telling you to just play their sport, is not in it for the player, but himself or herself.
Never solely listen to someone tell you how good your kid is, especially if you are PAYING that person to be on a club team or take lessons. Just saying.
Of course getting better skilled at a sport is important. But you also have to be a great athlete, not just more skilled or trained to be d1. Year round specialization leads to burnout and injuries. Playing multiple sports makes you more well-rounded, more athletic, keeps you fresher, more competitive, allows you to succeed and FAIL, and be a better teammate.
There is a law of diminishing returns when you practice year round. Most of the time players find that they have improved after they take some time off and come back and knock the rust off.
Very few sports give full scholarships. Most athletes that get scholarships - if that is your goal - spend more money on club dues, equipment, lessons, travel, hotels, etc than their scholarship ever adds up to.
I am not against playing travel, AAU, or club ball. I am against specialization for the sake of some mythical scholarship. Sports should be enjoyed. Not a job for 8-18 year olds.
My daughter played on the best club, travel, AAU team in the entire state last year. That would include boys and girls and any sport you want to name. They won the NATIONAL championship in AAU. They were up 34-11 at halftime of the national championship game. They beat the best regional teams from New York, California, Texas, Oklahoma, Kentucky, North Carolina, etc. And these aren't local teams. Most teams have players from two to five different states. One team we beat in March went and picked up a player from two states over so they could try and beat us in July. Very good Elite AAU teams could not even stay on the court with them. Getting beat by over 40 plus. About three ultra Elite teams in the nation could stay within 25 points of them.
This organization sends multiple kids to full scholarships every single year to big time (SEC, ACC, etc.) universities every year. They win national championships. This organization is truly amazing and first class. No one else in the state in any sport can compare.
Not once, and I mean not once, did any coach ever remotely suggest specializing. Or not playing another sport. Or putting this team above your school team.
Lastly, if an athletic scholarship is your goal - playing multiple sports is the better way anyways!!!!! If a scholarship is your goal, then the best way to get that is to STUDY!
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Post by coachcb on May 23, 2017 9:39:16 GMT -6
We have had problems with all kinds of club programs in this state; AAU, Legion baseball, league soccer.. You name it. I have run into very few high school coaches who push kids to specialize but these club sports do it continually..
We might lose a quality freshman discus thrower to Legion baseball next year because he's been told "scouts will be looking at him" and "he's going to get scholarships" by the Legion coaches. They're feeding these kids all kinds of lies just to be able to field a team as baseball isn't popular here. He did both sports this year and was three feet shy of going to state in discus while the baseball team hasn't won a friggin' game. To make matters worse, he had to give up throwing javelin (which he is VERY good at) because throwing curve balls is already screwing up his shoulder. The Legion coaches told him it was "normal" to not be able to raise your arm over your head after pitching...
I did discus the situation with he and his mother at a track meet this weekend and encouraged him to do both sports again as I know he does enjoy baseball. But, I told them they needed to recognize that ONE kid has gotten a scholarship for baseball from this program in the last fifteen years and that he wasn't looked at by "pro scouts". I also let them know that it's certainly not "normal" to lose ROM in the shoulder at 15 years old from pitching and that he needs to have that shoulder looked at before he pitches another game. My degree in kinesiology came in handy there..
Needless to say, mom's a little p-ssed off at these a--hats right now.
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Post by tothehouse on May 23, 2017 10:03:06 GMT -6
In the last two weeks we have had 3 starters quit to play baseball full time.
Am I upset? Not really. Not like I used to be.
They were bringing us down because their hearts weren't in it. Also, our baseball team hasn't won a league title since the late 80s and hasn't been to the playoffs in 15 years. These guys focusing on baseball only...won't get them any closer.
The only thing that bugs me is that I'm hearing something about an assistant coach for baseball egging these guys on to quit. But again...if they don't want to be with us...I don't want them. No biggy anymore. And by the way...our baseball program doesn't lift weights. One of the quitters has already dropped 10 lbs. Kinda sad.
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Post by silkyice on May 23, 2017 10:24:52 GMT -6
This is a broad generalization.
The main problem is these club, travel, AAU coaches and the lies they sell. Many don't know what they are doing or even how to practice, or fundamentals, or safety, or how to get a kid recruited.
They are just taping into these parents and kids egos and lying to them to keep them PAYING and playing on their teams.
They don't see these kids everyday. They don't keep up their grades or home life or discipline or really have anything to do with the kid except see him at games.
And amazingly, parents listen to these guys more than an experienced high school coach. Are there bad high school coaches? Absolutely. But at least for the most part, we have been to college degree and have an education certificate and are teachers also. We have to answer to an AD, principal, school board, parents, league association, athletic association, etc.
By the way, I am not saying that a coach who isn't a teacher or doesn't have an education certificate or a college degree is bad. I am just essentially saying that that we are "certified" and held to a standard.
What is crazy, is that the clubs that really get it and really produce d1 players like my daughter played on, do it right. School ball is first. Play other sports. Workout. Work on fundamentals and skills.
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mp21502
Sophomore Member
Posts: 233
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Post by mp21502 on May 23, 2017 10:51:47 GMT -6
I worry about the kids who play football. I don't waste one second worrying about the kids that don't.
Football isn't for everyone.
Don't get me wrong, I want every kid to play football; I just don't concern myself with the one's that don't.
No offense, but I've heard soccer coaches whine about kids who play football that would help the soccer team. In my opinion, complaining about basketball kids not playing football or prioritizing basketball is the same thing.
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Post by coachcb on May 23, 2017 11:03:00 GMT -6
In the last two weeks we have had 3 starters quit to play baseball full time. Am I upset? Not really. Not like I used to be. They were bringing us down because their hearts weren't in it. Also, our baseball team hasn't won a league title since the late 80s and hasn't been to the playoffs in 15 years. These guys focusing on baseball only...won't get them any closer. The only thing that bugs me is that I'm hearing something about an assistant coach for baseball egging these guys on to quit. But again...if they don't want to be with us...I don't want them. No biggy anymore. And by the way...our baseball program doesn't lift weights. One of the quitters has already dropped 10 lbs. Kinda sad. We're having the same issue but it's not with club sports... It's with basketball in the school. It's pretty discouraging too because the boys basketball HC is after them about playing football to stay active and be better prepared for football. He runs open gyms during the fall and he told the kids last night that it wasn't enough for them to go to open gyms; they needed to play football. But, it's not sinking in and I think we're going to lose quite a few kids to basketball. It's sad because a few of them do love football but this is a "basketball school" so they get a lot of peer and parental pressure to stay away from football so they "don't get hurt..".
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Post by mkuempel on May 23, 2017 11:30:26 GMT -6
Had an interesting issue a few weeks back, didn't involve football, but football players. Three tennis players, all play basketball and baseball as well. One injures his wrist, trying to decide if he should hang up the racket for the season to get healthy for baseball season (they follow each other in Iowa), tennis coach, who is also basketball coach is upset because this effects his tennis team, but player is injured, not much you can do, right? Well, two other tennis players miss a tennis tournament on a Saturday to play AAU basketball, coach's response, "If I don't let them play AAU, they'll quit tennis and I won't have a tennis team." Was mad at a player for not playing injured, but not mad about kids skipping a meet to play basketball, I didn't understand that one at all.
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Post by fkaboneyard on May 23, 2017 11:42:56 GMT -6
I worry about the kids who play football. I don't waste one second worrying about the kids that don't. Football isn't for everyone. Don't get me wrong, I want every kid to play football; I just don't concern myself with the one's that don't. No offense, but I've heard soccer coaches whine about kids who play football that would help the soccer team. In my opinion, complaining about basketball kids not playing football or prioritizing basketball is the same thing. To me, the difference is this - when it's soccer season play soccer and when it's football season, play football. I'm at a huge public school where we don't really worry about numbers (though I admit there are some kids that I wish would come to our program). I came from a small private school where the HC of each sport was primarily concerned with his program, not with the development of the student athlete. The football coach said, "Don't play baseball or basketball, you have to spend your offseason lifting if you want to be any good." The basketball and baseball coaches said, "Don't play football, you'll get hurt and ruin your chance for a scholarship." The coaches are protecting their own little fiefdoms and nobody wants to admit that kids can benefit from being multi-sport athletes. Unless a kid is an athletic phenom, the kid gets punished by the HC if he goes out for a different sport.
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mp21502
Sophomore Member
Posts: 233
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Post by mp21502 on May 23, 2017 12:00:58 GMT -6
I worry about the kids who play football. I don't waste one second worrying about the kids that don't. Football isn't for everyone. Don't get me wrong, I want every kid to play football; I just don't concern myself with the one's that don't. No offense, but I've heard soccer coaches whine about kids who play football that would help the soccer team. In my opinion, complaining about basketball kids not playing football or prioritizing basketball is the same thing. To me, the difference is this - when it's soccer season play soccer and when it's football season, play football. I'm at a huge public school where we don't really worry about numbers (though I admit there are some kids that I wish would come to our program). I came from a small private school where the HC of each sport was primarily concerned with his program, not with the development of the student athlete. The football coach said, "Don't play baseball or basketball, you have to spend your offseason lifting if you want to be any good." The basketball and baseball coaches said, "Don't play football, you'll get hurt and ruin your chance for a scholarship." The coaches are protecting their own little fiefdoms and nobody wants to admit that kids can benefit from being multi-sport athletes. Unless a kid is an athletic phenom, the kid gets punished by the HC if he goes out for a different sport. Soccer and football are at the same time where I'm at. What I mean is, promote the sport of football as best you can. Get as many players as you can the right way. Worry about the one's you have, not the one's you don't have.
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Post by bobgoodman on May 23, 2017 12:36:25 GMT -6
I think that before too long some organization will sponsor travel team football and it will be all year. If I had a sponsoring organization I could do the AAU thing and practice all year long. Like Arizona just passed. Like the AAU basketball does here now. ...I think that marketing is one of the issues that football faces now. There are so many other options, that are easier and more fun/less work than football, that kids would rather do that than run and lift and get hit.So which is it? Football becoming harder to market, or so easy to market that it gets to be all-year? I could point out that in the 19th Century, baseball started when the snow melted in March and ended on Thanksgiving Day...with occasional play during warm spells in winter. Meanwhile football started in the fall and continued thru spring, albeit with hardly any games in winter -- and that was just the college boys; grownups and children played football in the summer as well, if they could find a field that wasn't planted. If they could do it then, seasons overlapping at both ends, why's it so much harder now?
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Post by bobgoodman on May 23, 2017 12:52:17 GMT -6
Some of these "players" should be spending money on tutors NOT AAU. I guess what Mommy and Daddy are saying on Facebook is that my son is a "good" player, but the world knows he's a {censored} circus in the classroom. That got me wondering, then Googling. Looking for what playing AAU sports did for people's careers, I wound up looking at coaching resumes, and saw quite a few coaches have played in AAU.
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Post by bobgoodman on May 23, 2017 12:59:45 GMT -6
Are all AAu teams "big bucks" ?? From what I see on the website, to be an AAU athlete, it is like 14 bucks. I know that some travel teams/aau teams etc require big bucks, but is it universal? If kids are only paying $14 to play, who is paying the entry fees for tournaments? Warm-ups and gear bags? Shoes? Hotel rooms? Food? Gas money? Are there sponsors? Are there going to be sponsors for crappy teams made up of kids who aren't even good enough to play for the local high school team? You think most sponsors care about the quality of play of teams they sponsor? You think many of them even pay attention to which sport it is? Or even whether it's a sports club?
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Post by bobgoodman on May 23, 2017 13:10:21 GMT -6
I worry about the kids who play football. I don't waste one second worrying about the kids that don't. Football isn't for everyone. Don't get me wrong, I want every kid to play football; I just don't concern myself with the one's that don't. No offense, but I've heard soccer coaches whine about kids who play football that would help the soccer team. In my opinion, complaining about basketball kids not playing football or prioritizing basketball is the same thing. To me, the difference is this - when it's soccer season play soccer and when it's football season, play football. Interesting, because when I was in school, that was the same season. And there were kids who did play both.
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Post by 19delta on May 23, 2017 13:50:22 GMT -6
If kids are only paying $14 to play, who is paying the entry fees for tournaments? Warm-ups and gear bags? Shoes? Hotel rooms? Food? Gas money? Are there sponsors? Are there going to be sponsors for crappy teams made up of kids who aren't even good enough to play for the local high school team? You think most sponsors care about the quality of play of teams they sponsor? You think many of them even pay attention to which sport it is? Or even whether it's a sports club? What sponsors care about is the marketability of the team. A team with bad players is not interesting and, by extension, not marketable.
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Post by blb on May 23, 2017 14:32:21 GMT -6
Few years ago had one of our up-and-coming linemen danm near break his neck in a basketball game by diving for a loose ball near End Line of Basketball court and hitting the gym wall head-first.
Was in a neck collar for weeks.
Care to guess which sport he gave up?
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Post by tothehouse on May 23, 2017 14:54:42 GMT -6
Should this thread be called..."AAU basketball...the thing that killed football off".
All of the arguing is getting nobody anywhere. The problem is that all sports, including football, are cutting off the other sports. Everything is year round now. I feel like that we were the worst when it came to making kid show up to football. Now...I think we're the best in regards to sharing athletes. We practice early in the morning in the summer and that opens up all of the other sports. I don't care if kids play 5 sports. There is no conflict.
The problem is that if kids choose other sports over football...then there is potentially less kids playing football. They realize that football is one of the toughest sports to play and take an "easier" way out. Again...less players playing football.
I know that the only sport on our campus with a lifting program in place is football. And we are losing kids! Why? Because it's hard. And since the other sports aren't requiring lifting...kids are going to those sports. And then they play those sports outside of the school realm...and then...don't come back to football.
It's just the nature of the beast. And while I love football...it's been a blast. I'm done coaching in a year or 3...tops. Unless radical changes are made...I'm not chasing kids down. If they don't love it coming in...then someone else take my whistle.
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Post by blb on May 23, 2017 15:12:09 GMT -6
Should this thread be called..."AAU basketball...the thing that killed football off". All of the arguing is getting nobody anywhere. The problem is that all sports, including football, are cutting off the other sports. Everything is year round now. I feel like that we were the worst when it came to making kid show up to football. Now...I think we're the best in regards to sharing athletes. We practice early in the morning in the summer and that opens up all of the other sports. I don't care if kids play 5 sports. There is no conflict. The problem is that if kids choose other sports over football...then there is potentially less kids playing football. They realize that football is one of the toughest sports to play and take an "easier" way out. Again...less players playing football. I know that the only sport on our campus with a lifting program in place is football. And we are losing kids! Why? Because it's hard. And since the other sports aren't requiring lifting...kids are going to those sports. And then they play those sports outside of the school realm...and then...don't come back to football. It's just the nature of the beast. And while I love football...it's been a blast. I'm done coaching in a year or 3...tops. Unless radical changes are made...I'm not chasing kids down. If they don't love it coming in...then someone else take my whistle.
He's not wrong, unfortunately.
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Post by coachklee on May 23, 2017 15:45:19 GMT -6
Few years ago had one of our up-and-coming linemen danm near break his neck in a basketball game by diving for a loose ball near End Line of Basketball court and hitting the gym wall head-first. Was in a neck collar for weeks. Care to guess which sport he gave up? Rhetorical question, but I'll take a crack at it. Football...because he could potentially face a career ending & quality of life changing injury?
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Post by bobgoodman on May 23, 2017 15:59:05 GMT -6
You think most sponsors care about the quality of play of teams they sponsor? You think many of them even pay attention to which sport it is? Or even whether it's a sports club? What sponsors care about is the marketability of the team. A team with bad players is not interesting and, by extension, not marketable. The vast majority of sponsors just want to be seen, and be seen as "community-minded", "helping children" or the like. The team with bad players is interesting to the players, the players' relatives, etc. Same with sponsoring community or children's theater with bad actors, bad productions, etc. Quality of product is not what it's about.
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Post by bobgoodman on May 23, 2017 16:01:36 GMT -6
Few years ago had one of our up-and-coming linemen danm near break his neck in a basketball game by diving for a loose ball near End Line of Basketball court and hitting the gym wall head-first. Was in a neck collar for weeks. Care to guess which sport he gave up? BASE jumping? Cliff diving? Sprint car racing?
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