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Post by hsrose on May 21, 2017 15:43:30 GMT -6
<sour-grapes-mode_on> We have a 6'3" DE/WR that has given up playing football his Sr. year to play AAU. Last season (Jr.) on the HS team he averaged 4 pts. a game. He's given up lifting, and it seems he's trying to lose weight, at least every time I see him on campus he's looking thinner and thinner.
Last season he was academically ineligible at the start of the year. Stayed with practices, did the weights, got eligible, and played the last 3 games and the playoff game. Very good contributor. We have a gunslinger QB returning this year and he would have been one of the primary targets.
Why is he not playing football? Because the HS basketball coach (9-16 last year), who also coaches AAU, told him that he could do more for him if he stuck with basketball than I could if he played football. So, he's a basketball player now. <sour-grapes-mode-off>
We had another kid, 6'4", 215 or so, graduated last year, did the same thing. Football, basketball, baseball each year from grade school until his junior year. Then dropped football, and then baseball his senior year so he could focus on basketball. Made it to the 2nd cut at a JC.
I see the AAU guys in the gym all the time now, practicing. The HS Frosh coach is in there as is the JV coach, who is usually playing. From what I see it is scrimmage time from start to finish. My take is that it's a great way to really learn some very bad habits.
If the kid loves to play the sport, more power to him. If he's a legit player, chance to be recruited, sure, play the sport. But you'd better be working at it all the time, not screwing around all the time. If you are a good HS player, but aren't elite then play every sport you can, try them all, you won't get another chance to do that.
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Post by mdunham on May 21, 2017 15:46:25 GMT -6
AAU for me as a basketball coach is awful - glorified pick up. For the most parts kids are not working on fundamentals or any real team play - it looks more like NBA games. Terrible habits picked up. A game of chucking threes or a dunk a thon with little intent to play solid defense. Most teams are try out oriented so your varsity guys aren't playing together either. The fees too to play on the team plus tournament fees...
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Post by coachfloyd on May 21, 2017 15:51:37 GMT -6
For the guys who aren't railing against it on this thread...you obviously haven't seen the AAU racket around here. Terrible players paying an exorbitant amount of money to shady characters when they can't outshoot me. And I did outshoot one one day just to prove it. No, but I've read a description of that racket. So you outshot that player. Does that mean you get to play on a travel team? I think you'd have to pay just like everyone else. For at least one trip down the floor they would be better off😂
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Post by fantom on May 21, 2017 16:35:46 GMT -6
If AAU is really a way for kids to play organized basketball. rather than a way to take money from average kids to finance travel teams, why do they play in the summer? Why not during basketball season, in the winter?
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Post by 50slantstrong on May 21, 2017 17:45:30 GMT -6
I would fully support this if it meant also giving the death penalty to passing league clubs.
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Post by realdawg on May 21, 2017 18:24:47 GMT -6
I would fully support this if it meant also giving the death penalty to passing league clubs. Absolutely. It would be ok with me if we got rid of summer 7 on 7 leagues all together!
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Post by coachd5085 on May 21, 2017 20:43:12 GMT -6
Getting back to AAU - I coached at a school that was a state power in Volleyball (not Basketball but there are similarities, in fact in our state it used to be a Winter sport for girls.) We would win the state HS championship on a Saturday in March and the coach (who at the time I was related to by marriage) would tell the girls AAU practice started the next day (Sunday). He strongly implied if they didn't play AAU their chances of making the team would be diminished, and thus the prospect of a college scholarship which several girls from our school had gotten. So the best female athletes in our school would not play Softball or run Track because they were playing AAU Volleyball in the Spring, lest they lose the chance to save Mommy and Daddy several thousands of dollars a year in tuition. Until one year the best athlete in the school (she could've been our QB) told him sorry, she was going to play Softball AND run Track because she wanted to, knew there was no way he was going to cut her from the team, and she was going to get a scholly in either Basketball or V-ball if she played AAU or not. Which she did. Key point though, since you brought up scholarships. Coaches recruit the AAU & Travel basketball and volleyball team HARDER than (or at the very least as hard as ) the high school affiliated team. I am all for being a multi sport athlete, but in this case unfortunately things don' fall on the side of the multisport plan. Good for that girl though..it is always great when your talent allows you to do whatever you want.
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Post by funkfriss on May 21, 2017 21:04:43 GMT -6
Aside from HS coaches promoting AAU over other sports, I don't fault AAU, the teams, the coaches, or the system. It's a business. It's like people blaming McDonalds and Pepsi for making people fat.
Let's face it, AAU has become a status symbol. Kid gets to say he's on an AAU team and feel cool. Mom gets to post about "living the basketball mom life" on Facebook. Dad gets to puff his chest out and say he's giving his kid every chance to be successful and achieve his dream.
Can't blame AAU for raking in the money from that
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Post by coachfloyd on May 22, 2017 3:39:22 GMT -6
Getting back to AAU - I coached at a school that was a state power in Volleyball (not Basketball but there are similarities, in fact in our state it used to be a Winter sport for girls.) We would win the state HS championship on a Saturday in March and the coach (who at the time I was related to by marriage) would tell the girls AAU practice started the next day (Sunday). He strongly implied if they didn't play AAU their chances of making the team would be diminished, and thus the prospect of a college scholarship which several girls from our school had gotten. So the best female athletes in our school would not play Softball or run Track because they were playing AAU Volleyball in the Spring, lest they lose the chance to save Mommy and Daddy several thousands of dollars a year in tuition. Until one year the best athlete in the school (she could've been our QB) told him sorry, she was going to play Softball AND run Track because she wanted to, knew there was no way he was going to cut her from the team, and she was going to get a scholly in either Basketball or V-ball if she played AAU or not. Which she did. Key point though, since you brought up scholarships. Coaches recruit the AAU & Travel basketball and volleyball team HARDER than (or at the very least as hard as ) the high school affiliated team. I am all for being a multi sport athlete, but in this case unfortunately things don' fall on the side of the multisport plan. Good for that girl though..it is always great when your talent allows you to do whatever you want. Speaking of scholarships how many get full rides? How many just end up breaking even with all they spent? So many parents use the travel teams for all sports thinking it will lead to scholarships. How many spend 10k over a lifetime to save 1k a semester. And that's for the really good ones.
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Post by blb on May 22, 2017 4:57:20 GMT -6
Urban Meyer was recently quoted as saying that 80% of his scholarship signees played more than Football in HS.
Tom Izzo has for years talked about recruiting kids who play multiple sports, particularly Football.
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Post by realdawg on May 22, 2017 5:49:37 GMT -6
Can't just blame AAU basketball. Travel, showcase, and legion baseball are just as bad if not worse around here. Telling kids they need to just play baseball year round to get a scholarship when last time I checked college baseball programs just had 12 scholarships to give out.
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Post by newhope on May 22, 2017 7:27:01 GMT -6
We got one kid playing AAU basketball that rode the bench for our school... Hard pressed to believe he gets minutes on the AAU Team... Has an opportunity to start for the football team but misses 7 on 7s for AAU basketball... I hate AAU basketball. Scourge of the earth. I warned basketball coaches back in the 80s where this was going. They thought they were finding a way around the rules to get extra practice. They ended up losing control of the game. We (football coaches) are the last defense as this attempts to creep into high school football. If we let these outside 7 on 7 groups, outside coaching groups, AAU type groups, etc move in, we will end up in the same boat as basketball.
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Post by silkyice on May 22, 2017 7:39:45 GMT -6
Can't just blame AAU basketball. Travel, showcase, and legion baseball are just as bad if not worse around here. Telling kids they need to just play baseball year round to get a scholarship when last time I checked college baseball programs just had 12 scholarships to give out. And almost none are full scholarships!
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Post by jrk5150 on May 22, 2017 7:40:10 GMT -6
I love the fact this thread was started as a way to complain about a kid choosing one off-season activity for another off-season activity. :-)
And Murph, I get your point - the kid is choosing the wrong activity from your perspective. Plus, I rant about youth hockey all the time, in the same way. I think youth hockey is all kinds of effed up here in the New England.
Anyway - AAU basketball is definitely broken, but not necessarily as it pertains to a kid missing 7 on 7's. Starting in HS isn't the end all be all of athletics. The kid should be doing what he wants to do, which is kind of the point of the OFF-SEASON.
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Post by hsrose on May 22, 2017 8:05:07 GMT -6
Off-season? What is this 'off-season' thing of which you speak?
My eldest daughter played hi-comp soccer, my youngest played volleyball, both club and HS. It was well known that if you wanted to be recruited you had to play club soccer (and volleyball) rather than HS, HS was considered a way to stay in shape for the club team. The competition was much higher in the club teams than in the HS areas. The HS season would end on a Saturday, 1st club practice was normally on Sunday. And the clubs were in action, in some form, until the day before the HS season opened.
There was an article a couple of years back about one of the boys club soccer teams, how good they were. Came out that they had 18 players on the team, 12 were 1st team HS all league and the others were 2nd team. Every player on the team was the best that their HS had.
I think that before too long some organization will sponsor travel team football and it will be all year. If I had a sponsoring organization I could do the AAU thing and practice all year long. Like Arizona just passed. Like the AAU basketball does here now.
We're able to have spring practices all May. We went the 1st two weeks because the school gets out for 2 days in mid-May for the local fair, the kids have to setup animals the week before and then take the animals to the new owners the week following. Don't fight City Hall so we don't do much after the 1st 2 weeks of May. But, we're having 3 practices this week (week after the fair). One of my coaches just informed me that he will not be here for 2 of the practices this week because he is coaching travel baseball.
I think that marketing is one of the issues that football faces now. There are so many other options, that are easier and more fun/less work than football, that kids would rather do that than run and lift and get hit.
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Post by StraightFlexin on May 22, 2017 8:08:06 GMT -6
Our basketball program is beyond awful! Has a .200 winning percentage over the past 3 years. They have a coach that is running an AAU team with too many kids (violation). Said something to the AD last year about it, nothing has changed.
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Post by silkyice on May 22, 2017 8:12:51 GMT -6
I have so much to say about AAU, travel, post, club, scholarships, and year round play of one sport. But I don't even know where to begin. I could write for hours.
And all of it isn't bad.
Please forgive me if I just make random posts or responses.
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Post by silkyice on May 22, 2017 8:14:54 GMT -6
Off-season? What is this 'off-season' thing of which you speak? My eldest daughter played hi-comp soccer, my youngest played volleyball, both club and HS. It was well known that if you wanted to be recruited you had to play club soccer (and volleyball) rather than HS, HS was considered a way to stay in shape for the club team. The competition was much higher in the club teams than in the HS areas. The HS season would end on a Saturday, 1st club practice was normally on Sunday. And the clubs were in action, in some form, until the day before the HS season opened. There was an article a couple of years back about one of the boys club soccer teams, how good they were. Came out that they had 18 players on the team, 12 were 1st team HS all league and the others were 2nd team. Every player on the team was the best that their HS had. So how did it all turn out for your daughters and that soccer team? I am not being a smart tail. I actually want to know.
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Post by funkfriss on May 22, 2017 9:14:12 GMT -6
I think what's getting hard for HS coaches to realize is that HS sports simply aren't as important as they used to be (actually I'd say that about overall school pride/spirit in general, but that's a different topic).
I'm not saying there aren't people who find HS sports important, I'm saying there are less people who do. Is that a problem? Well, when you are a person who still finds them extremely important (i.e. a HS coach) then yes it is a problem. If you are the kid or the kid's parent, then the answer is who cares.
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Post by eaglemountie on May 22, 2017 9:41:13 GMT -6
I think we can all agree that it is far easier to play any game than it is to practice the skills it takes to be competent in the sport in hopes to become good and or great. This is why travel baseball/softball, club soccer and AAU basketball is more popular than school sports. The travel/club/AAU teams do not practice near as much as they play and that ratio is reversed when it comes to school activities.
That is probably also a major reason why I've seen an overall decline in sport specific skills in all of my freshmen PE classes over the past 10 years.
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Post by 53 on May 22, 2017 9:47:14 GMT -6
I think we can all agree that it is far easier to play any game than it is to practice the skills it takes to be competent in the sport in hopes to become good and or great. This is why travel baseball/softball, club soccer and AAU basketball is more popular than school sports. The travel/club/AAU teams do not practice near as much as they play and that ratio is reversed when it comes to school activities. That is probably also a major reason why I've seen an overall decline in sport specific skills in all of my freshmen PE classes over the past 10 years. You're seeing a dynamic decline because the world is increasingly becoming less physical, at least in developed countries. This isn't just in sports but labor too. Kids have a lot more options on their entertainment and most of it isn't centered around being physically active.
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Post by jrk5150 on May 22, 2017 11:54:44 GMT -6
Just curious - and I mean that, not looking to make any kind of point with this, just don't know and am wondering:
For those of you in states where spring football practice is allowed - be it formal practices or even 7 on 7 where you can coach your kids - are there any other sports where such practices/coaching contact is allowed out of season? Can baseball have practices in the fall? Can basketball go in the fall or spring? I know there are non-HS sponsored outlets like AAU for most other sports, and again, I'm not trying to make any kind of point.
Going back 30 years in NJ, I know in basketball you could put your team into a summer league under certain specific conditions. Otherwise, coaches couldn't be around you when you were playing. Pick up, open gyms, whatever - no basketball coaches allowed. Or any other sport in their "off-season". But that was really well before you had sports played outside their seasons. Well, other than AAU basketball in the spring. That existed even back in the 80's.
And while I kind of poked at the OP (I know him in the "real world", so it was partly that), I am vehemently against specialization. I didn't understand doing that when I was an athlete in HS, and I don't understand it now. I couldn't imagine just locking myself into one sport. Not only that, but frankly, the choice I'd have made changed around my sophomore year anyway. Had I been funneled into a single sport before then, it would have been the wrong sport for me...
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Post by CS on May 22, 2017 12:14:45 GMT -6
I get my take on this issue based on my own experience. I played football basketball and baseball 5-7th grade when I was in school.
Football was my #1 baseball my #2 and basketball falling into the 3 spot. After seventh grade, I didn't want to play basketball anymore. Mostly because I hated running line drills. I wanted to lift and get better at football and basketball would have gotten in the way of that at the time.
Senior year I take another swing at it and played quite a bit. The moral here is that I probably could have helped our basketball coach win a few more games had I played but I didn't feel that the sport was worth the work needed to be good.
Some kids don't like the physical nature of our sport and that is fine. I try and talk them out of it but it is what it is. Now if the coach of any team gets kids to play by stringing them along with false hopes of NBA dreams then that's bull$hit, however, if the parents are that stupid and delusional do you really want them to be involved in your programs???
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Post by tothehouse on May 22, 2017 12:28:51 GMT -6
I'm going here with these two items.
1. Some of these "players" should be spending money on tutors NOT AAU. I guess what Mommy and Daddy are saying on Facebook is that my son is a "good" player, but the world knows he's a {censored} circus in the classroom.
2. I just read a story about our local HS softball team that lost the first game of a best out of 3 playoff round. Game 2 was supposed to start after game 1. Ohhhhh, but the prom is the same night as the game and Game 2's starting time conflicted with the prom. Girls were seen running to the cars to get back in time for the prom. (Yes...they forfeited the last game, to end their season...to go to the prom)
A couple things with #2. Are the girls implying that high school softball doesn't matter and that their travel teams are where the scholarships are given out? And is that line of thinking ruining the HS game because valuing "finishing things" isn't as important as the prom.
It's 4th and 25. I'm punting.
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Post by hsrose on May 22, 2017 14:33:10 GMT -6
silkyice - My eldest daughter was burned out on soccer by the time she graduated HS. She played from 8th grade on, also played volleyball and ran track. But by Sr year she was just soccer. We're in CA and she was going to Texas and Florida and Nebraska(?!) for soccer tournaments. She was getting contacted during her Sr year but decided that she'd had enough and did not want to play any more. Walked away cold, no regrets. She saw what it would take and didn't want to do that, she wanted the college experience. Went to U. Colorado, had fun, graduated, and is getting married next month.
Youngest daughter is the volleyball player. Played hi-comp since 7th grade. Got her 2 full ride offers at smaller DI's but decided to go to the AF Academy to play there. She played a year at the Prep School and then during basic training to go into the Academy she was cut. She's now playing college club volleyball, which I did not know existed, and has gone to the national tournament the past 2 years. She was one of the initial set of players to make club volleyball at the AFA a reality. I don't get on the court with her. She is now a rising senior and will be graduating this time next year.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 22, 2017 17:25:49 GMT -6
Key point though, since you brought up scholarships. Coaches recruit the AAU & Travel basketball and volleyball team HARDER than (or at the very least as hard as ) the high school affiliated team. I am all for being a multi sport athlete, but in this case unfortunately things don' fall on the side of the multisport plan. Good for that girl though..it is always great when your talent allows you to do whatever you want. Speaking of scholarships how many get full rides? How many just end up breaking even with all they spent? So many parents use the travel teams for all sports thinking it will lead to scholarships. How many spend 10k over a lifetime to save 1k a semester. And that's for the really good ones. Depends. Men's and Women's D1 basketball and Women's D1 Volleyball are all full schollies by rule. To be clear, I am NOT suggesting that kids should shell out all this money to play AAU or that the parents who chase schollies are sane. I was just providing facts.
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Post by 19delta on May 22, 2017 18:36:24 GMT -6
If you're 15/16 and haven't made your HS basketball team you probably don't have a future in that sport.
Want to keep playing hoops? Find other ways.
And then something that not only interests you but you're good at.
Happens to all of us at some point in our lives.
Wouldn't AAU basketball be another way? Must there be a "future" in a sport? Can't one just enjoy playing it, but playing it in an organized manner? I see what you are getting at. However, if the kid isn't good enough to play on the school team, he's probably not good enough to play on an AAU team. Now, I'm not going to tell parents what they should or shouldn't do with their money. If a family wants to pay big bucks for the privilege of driving all over the tri-state area to watch other parents' kids play while their kid sits, then I'm not going to stop them. But let's not pretend that kids like this are playing AAU ball because they "enjoy" it. There is usually some ulterior motive. And my opinion is that, as a football coach, you are probably better off without kids and parents like this anyway. Most football coaches already have enough headcases. They really don't need to invite in any new ones.
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Post by 19delta on May 22, 2017 18:47:00 GMT -6
<sour-grapes-mode_on> We have a 6'3" DE/WR that has given up playing football his Sr. year to play AAU. Last season (Jr.) on the HS team he averaged 4 pts. a game. He's given up lifting, and it seems he's trying to lose weight, at least every time I see him on campus he's looking thinner and thinner. Last season he was academically ineligible at the start of the year. Stayed with practices, did the weights, got eligible, and played the last 3 games and the playoff game. Very good contributor. We have a gunslinger QB returning this year and he would have been one of the primary targets. Why is he not playing football? Because the HS basketball coach (9-16 last year), who also coaches AAU, told him that he could do more for him if he stuck with basketball than I could if he played football. So, he's a basketball player now. <sour-grapes-mode-off> We had another kid, 6'4", 215 or so, graduated last year, did the same thing. Football, basketball, baseball each year from grade school until his junior year. Then dropped football, and then baseball his senior year so he could focus on basketball. Made it to the 2nd cut at a JC. I see the AAU guys in the gym all the time now, practicing. The HS Frosh coach is in there as is the JV coach, who is usually playing. From what I see it is scrimmage time from start to finish. My take is that it's a great way to really learn some very bad habits. If the kid loves to play the sport, more power to him. If he's a legit player, chance to be recruited, sure, play the sport. But you'd better be working at it all the time, not screwing around all the time. If you are a good HS player, but aren't elite then play every sport you can, try them all, you won't get another chance to do that. Is that legal in your state? I'm pretty sure that in Illinois, coaches of school-sponsored teams can't coach their own players out-of-season except for designated contact times. As for losing your two big guys...did you guys do anything to try and keep those guys out for football? Were you willing to try and work something out with basketball so those kids could play both sports? If you did try and work something out and the kids still didn't play for you, well...I gotta tell you that you are probably a lot better off without kids like that. If a kid isn't willing to meet you at least half way, then that really isn't a kid you want.
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Post by hsrose on May 22, 2017 20:05:08 GMT -6
19delta - My reading of the CIF/section rules is that kids can do the club/AAU thing, but HS basketball is in the dead period. Meaning while the kids can play club sports, that organization can't be using the school equipment (basketballs) and it's questionable if the basketball staff can be coaching them on school grounds. So, my take is that what is going on right now is likely pretty questionable.
As far as the big guys, the older one was before my watch, I didn't have much to do with him other than lose a pretty good TE. The younger guy, we've asked, talked with, etc., and it's obvious that we are the poor step sister to basketball. I've told the coaches and players to leave him alone, let him be, he'd made his decision. No hard feelings on his decision, but I'm peeved at the coach because I don't think he did this for the kid, I think he did it to help his own record. The kid is looking at the local JC, that's as far as he can see. If that's as far as you can see, anyone can play there so you may as well play football and track and tiddlywinks. The older kid tried to get in a darn good state-level program and got bounced. At least he saw farther than the younger kid can see.
My first summer as HC we were doing our summer program. I had no idea who was working out when, didn't matter to me. Apparently I overlapped AAU basketball practice which torqued him off. I emailed the coach and said I'm running the kids and they are in the weight room. How about "we" use that time to our mutual benefit, I'll condition and weights and you can work on skills and drills. No go, so he did his own running program, taking time out of his practice when I was running those 5-8 kids again an hour later. And perish the thought of them ever seeing a weight room, never, ever see them in there. So I offered to do the conditioning and weights and got blown off.
All I can do is watch out for my program. If I can help yours, without hurting mine, I'll work that. But I've got a season to prepare for as well so I'm watching out for mine as my #1 priority.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 22, 2017 20:15:08 GMT -6
Are all AAu teams "big bucks" ?? From what I see on the website, to be an AAU athlete, it is like 14 bucks. I know that some travel teams/aau teams etc require big bucks, but is it universal?
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