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Post by fantom on Oct 6, 2016 11:26:18 GMT -6
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Post by fshamrock on Oct 6, 2016 12:12:49 GMT -6
Those dudes in the picture definitely look like NFL type guys
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Post by newt21 on Oct 6, 2016 12:16:38 GMT -6
While I agree, I also think that private schools and public schools shouldn't play in the same divisions/leagues because the private schools can recruit (even if it isn't technically recruiting, they have ways to bend rules and such to get more kids to play there). It's an advantage any way you look at it. If you don't think you can compete, don't put them on the schedule.
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Post by fantom on Oct 6, 2016 12:18:51 GMT -6
If you don't think you can compete, don't put them on the schedule. That's what I'm wondering, why schedule them if you don't think that you can compete? |
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 6, 2016 12:27:08 GMT -6
If you don't think you can compete, don't put them on the schedule. That's what I'm wondering, why schedule them if you don't think that you can compete? some places have little to no control of their schedule |
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Post by rosey65 on Oct 6, 2016 12:27:42 GMT -6
The big schools shouldn't be fielding teams? Or the low-level bad teams? |
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Post by silkyice on Oct 6, 2016 12:30:02 GMT -6
That is embarrassing.
“My son is 5-8 and weighs 117 pounds and just got out of middle school and just turned 14,” Stacey McBride, the mother of a Granite Falls player, told KING 5. “They’ve got 18-year-old players that are 6-5 and weigh 330 pounds. I mean, that’s like putting a Volkswagen bug against a Mack truck.
Now read
“My son is 5-8 and weighs 117 pounds and just got out of middle school and just turned 14,” Stacey McBride, the mother of a Granite Falls player, told KING 5. “They’ve got 18-year-old players that are 6 foot and weighs 200 pounds. I mean, that’s like putting a Volkswagen bug against a Mack truck.
Still true.
Or even better:
“My son is 5-8 and weighs 117 pounds and just got out of middle school and just turned 14,” Stacey McBride, the mother of a Granite Falls player, told KING 5. “Our OWN TEAM has a guy that is 18 years-old and is 6'1" and weighs 220 pounds. I mean, that’s like putting a Volkswagen bug against a Mack truck.
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Post by rosey65 on Oct 6, 2016 12:32:00 GMT -6
If you don't think you can compete, don't put them on the schedule. That's what I'm wondering, why schedule them if you don't think that you can compete? The article said it is a district game, they probably have no choice BUT to play. It has been mentioned on this site a lot about "not X's & O's, its Jimmy's & Joes." Having the ability to recruit the "J's & J's" that other schools cant get to really makes for an imbalanced playing field. |
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Post by fantom on Oct 6, 2016 12:33:19 GMT -6
The big schools shouldn't be fielding teams? Or the low-level bad teams? The schools that forfeited. If they can't compete maybe they son't need to have a football team. Or, if they want to only play the teams that they have a chance to compete with, don't schedule the other one. I understand that in some places the state or some other entity does the scheduling. That's always seemed weird to me and this is one reason why. |
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Post by fantom on Oct 6, 2016 12:36:24 GMT -6
That's what I'm wondering, why schedule them if you don't think that you can compete? The article said it is a district game, they probably have no choice BUT to play. It has been mentioned on this site a lot about "not X's & O's, its Jimmy's & Joes." Having the ability to recruit the "J's & J's" that other schools cant get to really makes for an imbalanced playing field. If it's a district game then they have to play. In our district if you forfeited for the reason stated there would be repercussions. |
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Post by wingtol on Oct 6, 2016 12:38:00 GMT -6
Fight or flight. Great lesson to teach kids. So much for David vs. Goliath.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Oct 6, 2016 12:39:51 GMT -6
If you don't think you can compete, don't put them on the schedule. That's what I'm wondering, why schedule them if you don't think that you can compete? My first thought (and I didn't go look to see for sure) is maybe they are in the same league and can't choose. This topic comes up each year in my state, because we have a national powerhouse private school that plays in the same league as the public schools and demolishes them, but to this point nobody has gone this far to forfeit here. |
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Post by 53 on Oct 6, 2016 12:42:45 GMT -6
We put a cost to buy the game out if you forfeit in our out of distract contracts. Our contracts our for a home and away, and if they don't hold up their end of the deal, It's basically impossible to find a game.
We had a team that wanted to forfeit, but was contractually obligated to pay us 10,000 dollars if they didn't show.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Oct 6, 2016 12:45:05 GMT -6
I think (pure speculation) that the publics are trying to force the private to opt out of their league. The school of thought is that if you forfeit ahead of time the private will find another game, but if you forfeit on short notice they won't have time to schedule a new opponent. So from the private schools perspective they are better off leaving that league so they will at least be able to play a full schedule. That's the idea that gets floated around by the "comments section crowd" in my state at least.
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Post by rosey65 on Oct 6, 2016 12:47:37 GMT -6
The big schools shouldn't be fielding teams? Or the low-level bad teams? The schools that forfeited. If they can't compete maybe they son't need to have a football team. Or, if they want to only play the teams that they have a chance to compete with, don't schedule the other one. I understand that in some places the state or some other entity does the scheduling. That's always seemed weird to me and this is one reason why. I think this is a non-issue, it just makes for good headlines, and the quote by the mom makes for some shares on social media. Just about everey team in the country has a "big" kid, and every school has a "tiny" kid. As silkyice said, there is a massive numbers issue from the biggest and smallest of every school. The beauty of football is that every body type and size has a place on the field. Every game we play, we have physical mismatches, both for us and against us. We capitalize on our advantages, and we work to compensate for when we are at a disadvantage. That is one of the beautiful things about this game. When this becomes an issue is the head-to-head matchups. A 190lb DL vs a bunch of 330lb is asinine. Pitting your puny LB against their Blue-chip FB is asinine. A team being able to recruit vs a lower-tier team who has no control over their roster is asinine. I coach down the street from IMG, and see this happening every season. While my team wouldn't be scared to face them, we'd get our @$$es handed to us, but we'd be able to physically match up against them. Teams, especially the lower-level playoff teams who have a hard time finding matchups themselves, are no longer scheduling IMG. A team last season was banned from the playoffs after forfeiting against IMG at halftime, down by 27 and with 3 starters injured. I'm not taking sides here. Im not faulting either coach for what is happening. You get to recruit? Good. You do it well? Good! You are a top team in the state? Good! You have a fantastic off-season program, with the money, resources, and family support to be elite? Good!!!! Your team sucks? Good! You do the best with what lives in your neighborhoods? Good! You dont want to get your kids injured, when the best chance you have is going 1-9 on the season anyways? Good! You do you. |
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Post by carookie on Oct 6, 2016 12:48:26 GMT -6
I have coached at extremely small schools, and never, I mean NEVER, did I have to put a 117 lb freshman out there as a lineman (where he would match up against multiple 300 lbers). I have also coached at a small private school that fielded multiple 300 lbers (and we didnt even have to recruit them) and never did any of our opponents have to field a sub 120 lber on the line.
I don't know the exact situation of what is going on there, so I may be wrong, but it reads as if a school got good real quick and a writer and some parents wanted to complain for attention (bias yellow journalism at its finest).
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Post by fantom on Oct 6, 2016 12:56:55 GMT -6
The schools that forfeited. If they can't compete maybe they son't need to have a football team. Or, if they want to only play the teams that they have a chance to compete with, don't schedule the other one. I understand that in some places the state or some other entity does the scheduling. That's always seemed weird to me and this is one reason why. I think this is a non-issue, it just makes for good headlines, and the quote by the mom makes for some shares on social media. Just about everey team in the country has a "big" kid, and every school has a "tiny" kid. As silkyice said, there is a massive numbers issue from the biggest and smallest of every school. The beauty of football is that every body type and size has a place on the field. Every game we play, we have physical mismatches, both for us and against us. We capitalize on our advantages, and we work to compensate for when we are at a disadvantage. That is one of the beautiful things about this game. When this becomes an issue is the head-to-head matchups. A 190lb DL vs a bunch of 330lb is asinine. Pitting your puny LB against their Blue-chip FB is asinine. A team being able to recruit vs a lower-tier team who has no control over their roster is asinine. I coach down the street from IMG, and see this happening every season. While my team wouldn't be scared to face them, we'd get our @$$es handed to us, but we'd be able to physically match up against them. Teams, especially the lower-level playoff teams who have a hard time finding matchups themselves, are no longer scheduling IMG. A team last season was banned from the playoffs after forfeiting against IMG at halftime, down by 27 and with 3 starters injured. I'm not taking sides here. Im not faulting either coach for what is happening. You get to recruit? Good. You do it well? Good! You are a top team in the state? Good! You have a fantastic off-season program, with the money, resources, and family support to be elite? Good!!!! Your team sucks? Good! You do the best with what lives in your neighborhoods? Good! You dont want to get your kids injured, when the best chance you have is going 1-9 on the season anyways? Good! You do you. I've been in plenty of games where we knew that we had no chance but never considered forfeiting. |
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Post by rosey65 on Oct 6, 2016 13:04:19 GMT -6
I think this is a non-issue, it just makes for good headlines, and the quote by the mom makes for some shares on social media. Just about everey team in the country has a "big" kid, and every school has a "tiny" kid. As silkyice said, there is a massive numbers issue from the biggest and smallest of every school. The beauty of football is that every body type and size has a place on the field. Every game we play, we have physical mismatches, both for us and against us. We capitalize on our advantages, and we work to compensate for when we are at a disadvantage. That is one of the beautiful things about this game. When this becomes an issue is the head-to-head matchups. A 190lb DL vs a bunch of 330lb is asinine. Pitting your puny LB against their Blue-chip FB is asinine. A team being able to recruit vs a lower-tier team who has no control over their roster is asinine. I coach down the street from IMG, and see this happening every season. While my team wouldn't be scared to face them, we'd get our @$$es handed to us, but we'd be able to physically match up against them. Teams, especially the lower-level playoff teams who have a hard time finding matchups themselves, are no longer scheduling IMG. A team last season was banned from the playoffs after forfeiting against IMG at halftime, down by 27 and with 3 starters injured. I'm not taking sides here. Im not faulting either coach for what is happening. You get to recruit? Good. You do it well? Good! You are a top team in the state? Good! You have a fantastic off-season program, with the money, resources, and family support to be elite? Good!!!! Your team sucks? Good! You do the best with what lives in your neighborhoods? Good! You dont want to get your kids injured, when the best chance you have is going 1-9 on the season anyways? Good! You do you. I've been in plenty of games where we knew that we had no chance but never considered forfeiting. Sure, we all have, and most of us dont ever think about forfeiting. Im sure you've thought, like us, "chit, I just hope for a running clock and no injuries." I dont know the scenarios or backgrounds of these smaller schools, I'm just guessing and assuming. Putting my kids in a scenario where I cant be sure most of them will make it out safely is not why I coach. Again, I'm not taking sides here. I can see and empathize with both coaches here. The overzealous and biased media, and mentioned previously, has really just blown this out of proportion. |
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Post by dytmook on Oct 6, 2016 13:21:35 GMT -6
I find it strange that publics and privates are in the same league. I can't think of any private schools in Ohio that are in the same league as a public. There probably are, but I don't know of any. So any of these type of match ups are usually mutually agreed on. The worst examples of recruiting around here are from the larger public schools so there are some terrible mismatches public vs public.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Oct 6, 2016 13:39:01 GMT -6
Some states just don't have enough private schools to put them in their own league. Where I am there are 3 private schools in the whole state that play in the highest classification. One of them is possibly the best team in the country, but they end up having to play a league schedule where they just destroy a bunch of public schools because we don't have an alternative. And every year people start on the message boards about how teams should do what we are seeing here and just forfeit those games to "force them out". So far it's just been talk here.
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 6, 2016 13:50:24 GMT -6
How bad is the other team that they have a scared 117 pound freshmen playing varsity?
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Post by coachmonkey on Oct 7, 2016 6:57:33 GMT -6
While I agree, I also think that private schools and public schools shouldn't play in the same divisions/leagues because the private schools can recruit (even if it isn't technically recruiting, they have ways to bend rules and such to get more kids to play there). It's an advantage any way you look at it. If you don't think you can compete, don't put them on the schedule. They stated flat out in the article they are allowed to recruit and sending buses out to a 50 mile radius to pick up those kids. |
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Post by coachmonkey on Oct 7, 2016 7:02:45 GMT -6
I think (pure speculation) that the publics are trying to force the private to opt out of their league. The school of thought is that if you forfeit ahead of time the private will find another game, but if you forfeit on short notice they won't have time to schedule a new opponent. So from the private schools perspective they are better off leaving that league so they will at least be able to play a full schedule. That's the idea that gets floated around by the "coments section crowd" in my state at least. Be hard for kids to stay in that division when they want to play college ball as their goals and have no stats or film to show. |
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Post by newt21 on Oct 7, 2016 7:05:26 GMT -6
While I agree, I also think that private schools and public schools shouldn't play in the same divisions/leagues because the private schools can recruit (even if it isn't technically recruiting, they have ways to bend rules and such to get more kids to play there). It's an advantage any way you look at it. If you don't think you can compete, don't put them on the schedule. They stated flat out in the article they are allowed to recruit and sending buses out to a 50 mile radius to pick up those kids. I know, but private schools everywhere aren't in that same situation. I know in NC where I coach, private schools are in the same division as public schools and they aren't allowed to "recruit" the same way. My comment was in regards to this situation but also to the situation that is in our state. |
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 7, 2016 7:26:40 GMT -6
I think (pure speculation) that the publics are trying to force the private to opt out of their league. The school of thought is that if you forfeit ahead of time the private will find another game, but if you forfeit on short notice they won't have time to schedule a new opponent. So from the private schools perspective they are better off leaving that league so they will at least be able to play a full schedule. That's the idea that gets floated around by the "coments section crowd" in my state at least. Be hard for kids to stay in that division when they want to play college ball as their goals and have no stats or film to show. Private school kids lives matter |
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Post by hanagin on Oct 7, 2016 8:00:09 GMT -6
It seems wrong to me to forfeit, even if the school has no control over its schedule. If a team is on your schedule, you play them.
In games where I've played and coached where we've gone against a team that has us over-matched, I don't even remember those as being particularly grueling affairs in terms of physicality and possible injuries. For example, when we've been on defense against much better opponents, we're just getting blown off the ball and moved all over the place and are rarely in position to do much to tackle the other team. The only real way I can think you'd be endangering your kids would be foolish playcalling (trying to drop back 40 times and getting your QB annihilated) or special teams. And if you're worried about special teams, call for fair catches or have your guys just flop on the ball rather than picking it up. The coach can do something to minimize the damage, but they should still play the game.
And that Mom was ridiculous. I once had a freshman, Randy, who was 4'10" and 88 lbs. Sure, he wasn't on Varsity, but he was our starting CB and on special teams. Kid was fearless and he got blown up by bigger kids all the time.
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Post by The Lunch Pail on Oct 7, 2016 8:03:55 GMT -6
Not all private schools are the same. There's a private school 10 minutes north of us that is in a town of 100,000 people (I'm in a town of 4,000). They just recently signed a kid to play football at Boise State who lived over an hour away from campus. They recruit like crazy and use the term "regional catholic" pretty loosely. We also have a private school 15 minutes south of us in a town of 45,000. They recruit kids from the county east of them, which is full of very little towns that don't have football. But they mainly stay true to their home city. Alabama's 2nd string TE went to school there, along with every member of his family. Here's what's unfair. The first school, who's got multiple D1 players in all sports, plays little schools like us (we still beat them) and the second school I mentioned goes out and plays the big boys.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Oct 7, 2016 9:07:58 GMT -6
I think (pure speculation) that the publics are trying to force the private to opt out of their league. The school of thought is that if you forfeit ahead of time the private will find another game, but if you forfeit on short notice they won't have time to schedule a new opponent. So from the private schools perspective they are better off leaving that league so they will at least be able to play a full schedule. That's the idea that gets floated around by the "coments section crowd" in my state at least. Be hard for kids to stay in that division when they want to play college ball as their goals and have no stats or film to show. I agree that if it were to actually happen on a large scale it would probably force the private school to find a better situation to play in. But in the process it would screw over a bunch of kids at the private school that aren't really at fault for the situation. I hope this doesnt catch on, sports are about measuring yourself against the best not hiding because the other guy is too good. |
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Post by fantom on Oct 7, 2016 9:26:52 GMT -6
Be hard for kids to stay in that division when they want to play college ball as their goals and have no stats or film to show. I agree that if it were to actually happen on a large scale it would probably force the private school to find a better situation to play in. But in the process it would screw over a bunch of kids at the private school that aren't really at fault for the situation. I hope this doesnt catch on, sports are about measuring yourself against the best not hiding because the other guy is too good. Although I disagree with forfeiting I disagree that the kids aren't at fault. Thy could have stayed at their public school. |
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Post by coachmonkey on Oct 7, 2016 9:45:36 GMT -6
Be hard for kids to stay in that division when they want to play college ball as their goals and have no stats or film to show. I agree that if it were to actually happen on a large scale it would probably force the private school to find a better situation to play in. But in the process it would screw over a bunch of kids at the private school that aren't really at fault for the situation. I hope this doesnt catch on, sports are about measuring yourself against the best not hiding because the other guy is too good.Wouldn't this mean you should stay at you public school and not try and go to stacked a team? This reminds me of when they asked Michael Jordan about LeBron leaving Cleveland to go to Miami and if he would have done something like that. He said no, "I wanted to beat the best." |
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