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Post by ccoomes16 on Sept 2, 2016 11:38:57 GMT -6
Let me set the stage for you.
I am a MS HC. Last year, we lost to a team 30-8. It was 22-8 with 2 minutes left...we turned it over on our 30 yard line. I send out my JV defense, thinking there's no way he sends out his 1st O with 2 minutes left. I was wrong. He sent out his 1st O and kept going. Scored a TD with :29 seconds left, if I recall correctly. He then lines up to go for 2 with his 1st O and gets it. Final score 30-8. Could've taken 2 knees and been done.
Afterwards, going to shake the coach's hand, he stops and takes a picture of the scoreboard. Right in front of me. It was at our field, on our homecoming. Burned me up...do not like the guy. I've remembered that since.
Fast forward to this year. We go to their place, on their homecoming, and beat them 46-0. I remember what happened last year...so I left my first O in there until about 3 minutes to go in the game. Scored the last TD at 3:30. Afterwards, I take a picture of the scoreboard as he's coming to shake my hand. Felt GREAT. Did I run it up? Absolutely. Did I care? Nope.
I now have a few parents complaining to my administration that "that's not the way we do things here, etc. etc.", setting a bad example for the kids, blah blah blah. I also had several parents come up to me afterwards and say they were glad I did that and ask for copies.
Is what I did justified? Should I feel like I owe anyone an apology? I don't feel that way, but should I?
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Post by spreadattack on Sept 2, 2016 11:44:22 GMT -6
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Post by NC1974 on Sept 2, 2016 12:03:17 GMT -6
I believe the whole "running up the score" thing leaves a lot of room for debate. Can definitely be argued both ways. The picture thing, I guess I would have to have been there.
I will say this about the picture thing. It sounds like you feel good because you were able to stick it to the coach. And he might have deserved it. The problem is, you've made it all about you and him. There are likely players, parents, spectators, who don't know the history, who now think less of you because of your actions. Now I'm not judging, because I've been guilty of things like this. But the thing is, I never really feel good about myself when I do something like this. The petty satisfaction is fleeting.
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Post by carookie on Sept 2, 2016 12:15:45 GMT -6
Are you justified? Depends on why you coach and what message you are trying to send to your kids; I think if you answer those things we will get a more clear understanding.
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Post by Defcord on Sept 2, 2016 12:20:43 GMT -6
There are a lot of unwritten rules in sports, but there's one rule for life that everyone knows. The Golden Rule...if one of their kids took a cheap shot at one of your kids would you tell your player to retaliate on the next play.
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Post by carookie on Sept 2, 2016 12:38:15 GMT -6
There are a lot of unwritten rules in sports, but there's one rule for life that everyone knows. The Golden Rule...if one of their kids took a cheap shot at one of your kids would you tell your player to retaliate on the next play. I'm not quite sure what you are insinuating, are you implying that you would tell your player to retaliate? If so I'd like to point out that is not what the Golden Rule is, the Golden Rule is not 'an eye for an eye.' |
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Post by CS on Sept 2, 2016 12:46:39 GMT -6
Let me set the stage for you. I am a MS HC. Last year, we lost to a team 30-8. It was 22-8 with 2 minutes left...we turned it over on our 30 yard line. I send out my JV defense, thinking there's no way he sends out his 1st O with 2 minutes left. I was wrong. He sent out his 1st O and kept going. Scored a TD with :29 seconds left, if I recall correctly. He then lines up to go for 2 with his 1st O and gets it. Final score 30-8. Could've taken 2 knees and been done. Afterwards, going to shake the coach's hand, he stops and takes a picture of the scoreboard. Right in front of me. It was at our field, on our homecoming. Burned me up...do not like the guy. I've remembered that since. Fast forward to this year. We go to their place, on their homecoming, and beat them 46-0. I remember what happened last year...so I left my first O in there until about 3 minutes to go in the game. Scored the last TD at 3:30. Afterwards, I take a picture of the scoreboard as he's coming to shake my hand. Felt GREAT. Did I run it up? Absolutely. Did I care? Nope. I now have a few parents complaining to my administration that "that's not the way we do things here, etc. etc.", setting a bad example for the kids, blah blah blah. I also had several parents come up to me afterwards and say they were glad I did that and ask for copies. Is what I did justified? Should I feel like I owe anyone an apology? I don't feel that way, but should I? So a coach that you don't like did something that you didn't like and then you went and did the same thing that he did to you?? Basically, you think he is a douche and you are trying to act like him. |
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Post by **** on Sept 2, 2016 12:51:20 GMT -6
Let me set the stage for you. I am a MS HC. Last year, we lost to a team 30-8. It was 22-8 with 2 minutes left...we turned it over on our 30 yard line. I send out my JV defense, thinking there's no way he sends out his 1st O with 2 minutes left. I was wrong. He sent out his 1st O and kept going. Scored a TD with :29 seconds left, if I recall correctly. He then lines up to go for 2 with his 1st O and gets it. Final score 30-8. Could've taken 2 knees and been done. Afterwards, going to shake the coach's hand, he stops and takes a picture of the scoreboard. Right in front of me. It was at our field, on our homecoming. Burned me up...do not like the guy. I've remembered that since. Fast forward to this year. We go to their place, on their homecoming, and beat them 46-0. I remember what happened last year...so I left my first O in there until about 3 minutes to go in the game. Scored the last TD at 3:30. Afterwards, I take a picture of the scoreboard as he's coming to shake my hand. Felt GREAT. Did I run it up? Absolutely. Did I care? Nope. I now have a few parents complaining to my administration that "that's not the way we do things here, etc. etc.", setting a bad example for the kids, blah blah blah. I also had several parents come up to me afterwards and say they were glad I did that and ask for copies. Is what I did justified? Should I feel like I owe anyone an apology? I don't feel that way, but should I? Phuk anyone that was pissed about running the score up. I've been on the chit end of that enough times. Welcome to the real world. Life is not fair. I was at a HS that got pissed we beat somebody 42-0 and 56-12. Those were 2 of our 3 wins on the year. We had 16 players and we were playing 11 man football against schools up to 8 times bigger than us (no lie). After we beat the second team 56-12 the AD was pissed we "ran up the score" and we "aren't going to win the conference sportsmanship award this year now" (seriously, that was a real thing they did at this school/conference). School cared more about this 'sportsmanship award' than actually winning games. Crazy how I was only there 1 year. Here is a little different scenario.... We beat a team 76-0 last year, it was literally like the team didn't want to play the game. Kids would stand still at the snap and let people run past them, never seen anything like it in my whole life. It was 35-0 end of the 1st and varsity kids were done. We have JV play the second quarter and freshman finished out the second half. It was so bad, the freshman were running 80 yards untouched on plays. It is impossible to tell a freshman to fall down in open space when he's about to score his first varsity TD. Game was miserable to be at but nobody complained we ran up the score. |
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CoachSP
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Post by CoachSP on Sept 2, 2016 12:52:21 GMT -6
What is done is done, and I would try and let it go. But to answer your question, I think that the picture may have been overkill. Just my two cents.
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Post by carookie on Sept 2, 2016 12:59:48 GMT -6
Let me set the stage for you. I am a MS HC. Last year, we lost to a team 30-8. It was 22-8 with 2 minutes left...we turned it over on our 30 yard line. I send out my JV defense, thinking there's no way he sends out his 1st O with 2 minutes left. I was wrong. He sent out his 1st O and kept going. Scored a TD with :29 seconds left, if I recall correctly. He then lines up to go for 2 with his 1st O and gets it. Final score 30-8. Could've taken 2 knees and been done. Afterwards, going to shake the coach's hand, he stops and takes a picture of the scoreboard. Right in front of me. It was at our field, on our homecoming. Burned me up...do not like the guy. I've remembered that since. Fast forward to this year. We go to their place, on their homecoming, and beat them 46-0. I remember what happened last year...so I left my first O in there until about 3 minutes to go in the game. Scored the last TD at 3:30. Afterwards, I take a picture of the scoreboard as he's coming to shake my hand. Felt GREAT. Did I run it up? Absolutely. Did I care? Nope. I now have a few parents complaining to my administration that "that's not the way we do things here, etc. etc.", setting a bad example for the kids, blah blah blah. I also had several parents come up to me afterwards and say they were glad I did that and ask for copies. Is what I did justified? Should I feel like I owe anyone an apology? I don't feel that way, but should I? Phuk anyone that was pissed about running the score up. I've been on the chit end of that enough times. Welcome to the real world. Life is not fair. I was at a HS that got pissed we beat somebody 42-0 and 56-12. Those were 2 of our 3 wins on the year. We had 16 players and we were playing 11 man football against schools up to 8 times bigger than us (no lie). After we beat the second team 56-12 the AD was pissed we "ran up the score" and we "aren't going to win the conference sportsmanship award this year now" (seriously, that was a real thing they did at this school/conference). School cared more about this 'sportsmanship award' than actually winning games. Crazy how I was only there 1 year. Here is a little different scenario.... We beat a team 76-0 last year, it was literally like the team didn't want to play the game. Kids would stand still at the snap and let people run past them, never seen anything like it in my whole life. It was 35-0 end of the 1st and varsity kids were done. We have JV play the second quarter and freshman finished out the second half. It was so bad, the freshman were running 80 yards untouched on plays. It is impossible to tell a freshman to fall down in open space when he's about to score his first varsity TD. Game was miserable to be at but nobody complained we ran up the score. I would say the issue at hand is less about intentionally running up a score against an inferior opponent (although that is part of it). I think the issue is more about revenge and mocking an opponent (the picture with the scoreboard) who hurt your feelings. How do you respond to it, what message it sends to the kids? We all have been in games where we literally can't stop from scoring (it happens) but scoring a lot is ancillary to the main contention. |
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Post by KYCoach2331 on Sept 2, 2016 13:04:21 GMT -6
Could've been a good opportunity to show your kids "Hey just because someone was a douche to you doesn't mean you have to be a douche right back." I'm sure it felt great to do it, but remember you're not just embarrassing him you're embarrassing kids.
Best case scenario would have been to walked by and said something sarcastically nice. I'm sure your kids knew about the incident last year and it would be a valuable lesson for them.
What you did wasn't that bad though, I probably would've did the same 7/10
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Post by rsmith627 on Sept 2, 2016 14:03:28 GMT -6
I haven't read all of the posts, but I like what you did. I can also see why people wouldn't.
Most of the coaches in our league are d!cks. I backed off last year every single week. I learned that schools don't like us and most won't give us film. I have had to get it from their other opponents.
This year, I am keeping my starters in pretty late and taking shots, because f them. I tried to be nice and they still won't trade film with us, so I am going to win as big as I can every week. I know this will ruffle some feathers here and I accept that.
Above it talks about a teaching moment, and I agree with that. It's also a good teaching moment to say we don't put up with anybody's BS. We could argue whether it's right or wrong all day and get no where. Just do you.
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Post by brophy on Sept 2, 2016 14:38:02 GMT -6
no offense, but I stopped right there. Running up the score in middle school.....for what? who cares? |
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Post by Defcord on Sept 2, 2016 14:43:21 GMT -6
There are a lot of unwritten rules in sports, but there's one rule for life that everyone knows. The Golden Rule...if one of their kids took a cheap shot at one of your kids would you tell your player to retaliate on the next play. I'm not quite sure what you are insinuating, are you implying that you would tell your player to retaliate? If so I'd like to point out that is not what the Golden Rule is, the Golden Rule is not 'an eye for an eye.' No I am on the other side. I wouldn't do something that I thought lacked class, even if the coach had done it to me. I was trying to point out just because one of their players cheap shotted one of ours doesn't mean I would condone retaliation. Sorry for unclear wording. I think op was wrong in doing exactly what he was upset by. I should have just said that. |
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Post by Defcord on Sept 2, 2016 14:45:37 GMT -6
I haven't read all of the posts, but I like what you did. I can also see why people wouldn't. Most of the coaches in our league are d!cks. I backed off last year every single week. I learned that schools don't like us and most won't give us film. I have had to get it from their other opponents. This year, I am keeping my starters in pretty late and taking shots, because f them. I tried to be nice and they still won't trade film with us, so I am going to win as big as I can every week. I know this will ruffle some feathers here and I accept that. Above it talks about a teaching moment, and I agree with that. It's also a good teaching moment to say we don't put up with anybody's BS. We could argue whether it's right or wrong all day and get no where. Just do you. I don't think it's that big of a deal to take the approach you are taking as long as you aren't mad when it happens to you. |
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Post by rsmith627 on Sept 2, 2016 15:09:56 GMT -6
I haven't read all of the posts, but I like what you did. I can also see why people wouldn't. Most of the coaches in our league are d!cks. I backed off last year every single week. I learned that schools don't like us and most won't give us film. I have had to get it from their other opponents. This year, I am keeping my starters in pretty late and taking shots, because f them. I tried to be nice and they still won't trade film with us, so I am going to win as big as I can every week. I know this will ruffle some feathers here and I accept that. Above it talks about a teaching moment, and I agree with that. It's also a good teaching moment to say we don't put up with anybody's BS. We could argue whether it's right or wrong all day and get no where. Just do you. I don't think it's that big of a deal to take the approach you are taking as long as you aren't mad when it happens to you. Agree with that. Honestly, I have been on both ends of it. Losing sucks, but I am of the opinion that you don't have your kids back off from doing their best, and wouldn't want you to do that to your kids if tables are turned. I'm also not out there for blood or looking to embarrass anybody. If we are up by 60 I'll back off where some guys out there don't. If a game is truly truly out of hand I will play my kids that work hard but don't get to play a lot. |
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Post by carookie on Sept 2, 2016 15:11:24 GMT -6
I haven't read all of the posts, but I like what you did. I can also see why people wouldn't. Most of the coaches in our league are d!cks. I backed off last year every single week. I learned that schools don't like us and most won't give us film. I have had to get it from their other opponents. This year, I am keeping my starters in pretty late and taking shots, because f them. I tried to be nice and they still won't trade film with us, so I am going to win as big as I can every week. I know this will ruffle some feathers here and I accept that. Above it talks about a teaching moment, and I agree with that. It's also a good teaching moment to say we don't put up with anybody's BS. We could argue whether it's right or wrong all day and get no where. Just do you. Interesting plan; but is your goal more about them or about you. Are you doing this to make them trade film and stop being dicks or is it a tit for tat type thing and more about your pride? I get that some people feel that other coaches are attacking them and their program, and lord knows we are in an Alpha male profession where everything is a pissing contest, but what does intentionally beating them badly prove? What does it accomplish? If you truly think this will alter their behavior, then I wish you luck. But if it is out of schadenfreude I hope you think better of it. We work our tails off to beat every opponent we face and recognize that for every winner there has to be a loser. But bear in mind; though football games are a 'zero sum proposition', sportsmanship, and class, are not. |
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Post by ccoomes16 on Sept 2, 2016 21:27:32 GMT -6
Thanks for all the replies (besides brophy). Didn't expect this many.
I understand where you all are coming from. The head coach of this team is just a dick. He has been hated around the league since he's been here (4th season). He is known for running up the score on anyone he can. Known for being difficult with scheduling. Known for not caring about anyone else, for just trying to lookout for himself.
My AD/asst. principal said he was 100% behind me. Said what happened last year was "bush league" and that he would've done the exact same thing. I consider myself to be a moral man who is usually a good sport when it comes to competition...but when you have a chance to take a shot on someone who's known for taking shots on inferior teams, I felt like I almost owed to all those teams for the last few years.
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Post by Stangs13065 on Sept 2, 2016 21:51:04 GMT -6
When it comes to running up the score I'm of the "If you want me to avoid it, stop me", so I have no problem with that. As for the picture: It was absolutely justified, and yeah it feels good, but in the long run being the bigger person is the better path imo. I don't have an issue with it, but it might not have been the best decision to make
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 3, 2016 6:08:20 GMT -6
Thanks for all the replies (besides brophy). Didn't expect this many. I understand where you all are coming from. The head coach of this team is just a dick. He has been hated around the league since he's been here (4th season). He is known for running up the score on anyone he can. Known for being difficult with scheduling. Known for not caring about anyone else, for just trying to lookout for himself. My AD/asst. principal said he was 100% behind me. Said what happened last year was "bush league" and that he would've done the exact same thing. I consider myself to be a moral man who is usually a good sport when it comes to competition...but when you have a chance to take a shot on someone who's known for taking shots on inferior teams, I felt like I almost owed to all those teams for the last few years. The issue here is what have YOU started? This is middle school, and as shown by your very example, things can vary quite a lot from year to year due to puberty/talent etc. I would argue that the "program strength" of MS teams vary more than at the Varsity level. So now..if next year you guys have a down year, and he has a few early maturing kids who will likely contribute their respective Varsity squad as underclassmen, he might hang 50 on you, repeat the process, and bring things to the brink... |
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Post by chi5hi on Sept 3, 2016 7:45:59 GMT -6
Is what you did justified?
I would say no. The last time he was being a poor sport, and this time you were.
A hand shake and a kind word would have put you head and shoulders above his bad behavior. The fact that you are now questioning your action is proof that its bothering you.
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Post by fantom on Sept 3, 2016 8:51:13 GMT -6
Let me set the stage for you. I am a MS HC. Last year, we lost to a team 30-8. It was 22-8 with 2 minutes left...we turned it over on our 30 yard line. I send out my JV defense, thinking there's no way he sends out his 1st O with 2 minutes left. I was wrong. He sent out his 1st O and kept going. Scored a TD with :29 seconds left, if I recall correctly. He then lines up to go for 2 with his 1st O and gets it. Final score 30-8. Could've taken 2 knees and been done. Afterwards, going to shake the coach's hand, he stops and takes a picture of the scoreboard. Right in front of me. It was at our field, on our homecoming. Burned me up...do not like the guy. I've remembered that since. Fast forward to this year. We go to their place, on their homecoming, and beat them 46-0. I remember what happened last year...so I left my first O in there until about 3 minutes to go in the game. Scored the last TD at 3:30. Afterwards, I take a picture of the scoreboard as he's coming to shake my hand. Felt GREAT. Did I run it up? Absolutely. Did I care? Nope. I now have a few parents complaining to my administration that "that's not the way we do things here, etc. etc.", setting a bad example for the kids, blah blah blah. I also had several parents come up to me afterwards and say they were glad I did that and ask for copies. Is what I did justified? Should I feel like I owe anyone an apology? I don't feel that way, but should I? Every year there are questions about running up the score so nothing there surprised me (Well, taking pictures was a new twist). What surprised me was: Middle schools have Homecoming? |
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Post by newt21 on Sept 3, 2016 11:05:26 GMT -6
I haven't read the other posts, but as a MS coach also you have to set the example for your kids. Just because you're butt hurt from the year before doesn't mean you try to embarrass anybody. If I were in your shoes, I'd treat the situation like any other that I was up on a team, get my other kids reps to get them better and more ready if we need them down the road.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 3, 2016 11:10:39 GMT -6
I haven't read the other posts, but as a MS coach also you have to set the example for your kids. Just because you're butt hurt from the year before doesn't mean you try to embarrass anybody. If I were in your shoes, I'd treat the situation like any other that I was up on a team, get my other kids reps to get them better and more ready if we need them down the road. Absolutely. Also, ccoomes16 it sounds like you made this about "you" when quite obviously it is not. With last years team "YOU" got smoked 30-8. |
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Post by fballcoachg on Sept 3, 2016 14:06:50 GMT -6
Thanks for all the replies (besides brophy). Didn't expect this many. I understand where you all are coming from. The head coach of this team is just a dick. He has been hated around the league since he's been here (4th season). He is known for running up the score on anyone he can. Known for being difficult with scheduling. Known for not caring about anyone else, for just trying to lookout for himself. My AD/asst. principal said he was 100% behind me. Said what happened last year was "bush league" and that he would've done the exact same thing. I consider myself to be a moral man who is usually a good sport when it comes to competition...but when you have a chance to take a shot on someone who's known for taking shots on inferior teams, I felt like I almost owed to all those teams for the last few years. Well it seems like you aren't asking opinions as much as asking for reassurance that what you did is above board even though it is exactly what he did to you that you initially took such exception to. Do I think it was justified? Sure, if you are petty and not trying to use football as a vehicle to teach bigger lessons. Do I think it is justified to keep your MIDDLE SCHOOL starters in in a blowout when less developed players that have worked hard all week could have gotten experience and some time to shine absolutely not. I have an ego, I can be petty, I get upset, but at the end of the day it isn't about me, it's about the kids and the program. What you did did nothing to help your program, may have actually hurt your program, but you already seem to feel as though it is justified so keep doing you. |
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Post by fballcoachg on Sept 3, 2016 14:12:25 GMT -6
When it comes to running up the score I'm of the "If you want me to avoid it, stop me", so I have no problem with that. As for the picture: It was absolutely justified, and yeah it feels good, but in the long run being the bigger person is the better path imo. I don't have an issue with it, but it might not have been the best decision to make I'm sorry but the "if you want me to avoid it, stop me" is to often used as a cop out by guys who want to pad their ego. Many coaches are at the mercy of who they have and can't stop you. If you are keeping your starters in then that is more a reflection of you than it is of the inability of another coach to stop you. I have been on both ends of blow outs and have many times been in the locker room at half trying to figure out how not to or how to slow up scoring because we were already up. Those are kids on the other sideline, not professionals...maybe the stop me crowd should consider that. Isn't much of a difference between winning by 35 and winning by 50, a whooping is a whooping, some are just handled better than others by the superior team. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 3, 2016 15:50:01 GMT -6
I might have poured it on, then at midfield at the hand shake simply asked of he wanted to take a photo now.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 3, 2016 15:53:57 GMT -6
Do I think it was justified? Sure, if you are petty and not trying to use football as a vehicle to teach bigger lessons. Do I think it is justified to keep your MIDDLE SCHOOL starters in in a blowout when less developed players that have worked hard all week could have gotten experience and some time to shine absolutely not. I have an ego, I can be petty, I get upset, but at the end of the day it isn't about me, it's about the kids and the program. What you did did nothing to help your program, may have actually hurt your program, but you already seem to feel as though it is justified so keep doing you. brings up a great point about the playing time. How much do your back ups get to play? This could have been a great chance for them to play a lot... |
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Post by 19delta on Sept 3, 2016 20:18:26 GMT -6
Beat 'em fair and square and then take the high road. No better "fvck you" than that!
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Post by morris on Sept 3, 2016 21:33:54 GMT -6
The other guy was a prick I get it. I don't see the reason to be a prick back. This is MS not HS so there was is almost no one if anyone on that team from the previous year. I get in HS where things get heated due to a schools having players for an extended period of time. I've had teams do somethings I didn't agree with. I'm sure some people don't agree with somethings I've done. If you really want to prove a point kick his arse every year and do it with class. That proves a lot more.
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