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Post by jlenwood on Jun 20, 2016 20:36:45 GMT -6
I am currently a bit discouraged with our numbers and several other things going on with our program. So today while I was at work, and should have been concentrating on my work, I was thinking of football. I have some ideas why are numbers are down, but it also made me think about sports at our school in general, specifically why would you play a sport here.
What I mean by that is, if I had to name 3 things that we offered a kid exclusive to our program, that would make that kid just think "Man I gotta play football", what would they be? I truthfully struggled to come up with three. I know what we always say as coaches, but I am trying to think of what a kid/parent looking in from the outside see's or hears, and then makes their decision.
So what do you "offer" to your kids. I am not talking about spirit gear or the typical trinket stuff, I am talking about the heart of your program....is it that your school has won 7 of the last 10 state championships, a true sense of family, top of the line recruiting program? What is it that pulls a kid into your program and turns them into a loyal football kid?
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Post by poundtherock1 on Jun 20, 2016 21:41:39 GMT -6
It's gotta be fun to play football.
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Post by funkfriss on Jun 20, 2016 23:43:12 GMT -6
I am currently a bit discouraged with our numbers and several other things going on with our program. So today while I was at work, and should have been concentrating on my work, I was thinking of football. I have some ideas why are numbers are down, but it also made me think about sports at our school in general, specifically why would you play a sport here. What I mean by that is, if I had to name 3 things that we offered a kid exclusive to our program, that would make that kid just think "Man I gotta play football", what would they be? I truthfully struggled to come up with three. I know what we always say as coaches, but I am trying to think of what a kid/parent looking in from the outside see's or hears, and then makes their decision. So what do you "offer" to your kids. I am not talking about spirit gear or the typical trinket stuff, I am talking about the heart of your program....is it that your school has won 7 of the last 10 state championships, a true sense of family, top of the line recruiting program? What is it that pulls a kid into your program and turns them into a loyal football kid? What made you want to play football at your school? Me, I liked the idea that I could hit people and not get in trouble. |
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Post by **** on Jun 21, 2016 4:46:20 GMT -6
I myself am a bit of a sick MOFO. I loved to play football for the fact that I could hurt as many people as possible and not get in trouble for it. (you're either an ILB or your're not)
These 3 things are the top ways to get kids to play in my eyes.
1. Win. (Winning cures everything)
2. Have fun / create a sense of family. (Family is big for us because most of our kids come from bad home lives)
3. Mold young boys into men. (Like I said, most of our kids have a bad home life. We want them to learn life lessons through football that will teach them to become great sons/fathers/brothers/etc)
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Post by blb on Jun 21, 2016 5:18:44 GMT -6
Kids play Football basically for two reasons:
1. Because it's fun
2. For the camaraderie
As we know there are by the nature of the sport some things necessary that are hard, tough, and difficult; some that are routine drudgery.
But we better do everything we can as coaches to make it as enjoyable as possible or participation will drop.
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Post by natenator on Jun 21, 2016 6:41:01 GMT -6
But we better do everything we can as coaches to make it as enjoyable as possible or participation will drop. Mind sharing some ideas on how you do that? |
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Post by s73 on Jun 21, 2016 6:57:33 GMT -6
I think it's the game itself, kids like football.
I also think it's the acknowledgement from their peers (FB games highly attended v. other sports)
And... I think we build camaraderie.
With thats said, we definitely....I as HFC need to do a better job of making it fun. It seems that the practice to play ratio of football is so different than any other sport that it's difficult to avoid (as BLB said) the drudgery.
That's something I have to do a better job of.
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Post by blb on Jun 21, 2016 7:06:09 GMT -6
But we better do everything we can as coaches to make it as enjoyable as possible or participation will drop. Mind sharing some ideas on how you do that?
First and most importantly, coaches need to be as positive and enthusiastic as can be - it is possible to chew azz with a smile on your face.
Second, do some things just for fun but still Football-related.
For example, we did a Scoop 'n Score Drill for Warm-up one day during Pre-Season instead of Form Running or whatever.
Instead of running sprints at end of practice, do Arch Drill with entire team including linemen once in awhile.
When we did run 40s for Conditioning during Two-a-Days, we would run one for each "win" and yell name of an opponent off LOS.
To finish Monday practices we did "Beat (opponents)" Drill ('Perfect Play') instead of traditional conditioning.
I did "Ape Drill" with LBers when I sensed they were getting mentally stale - one be leader in front of rest inside ten-yard square. He could do whatever he wanted - Jumping Jacks, Shuffle, Seat Rolls, somersault, pushups, etc. for about ten seconds and others had to imitate or "ape" him. When I called "Out!!" he would try to "score" through square and others would gang tackle.
(I also would do a 'Man in the Middle' Drill for pass breaks and let them be the passers).
Midway through practice we did "Sky Drill" - after getting water kids laid on their backs with helmets on chest looking up at sky (hopefully visualizing success during games) for 3-4 minutes.
We would "force" enthusiasm by doing a 15-second clap and breakdown when I called them up for Team Comment at beginning and end of practice.
If it fits your personality, exhibit a sense of humor when appropriate.
I felt that because we ran option and passed on offense and were a multiple, aggressive, stunting-blitzing defense our kids had fun playing our systems.
I'm sure there were others but without writing a book those were the things that sprang immediately to mind.
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Post by hunhdisciple on Jun 21, 2016 7:08:26 GMT -6
Man, your guys like football? Most of ours ultimately don't care all that much about it.
Some of our guys play because their dad did, and he now makes them. Some of them play because they think it makes them tough. The rest of them play because they think they're cool.
None of them like football, except for maybe 1 or 2.
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Post by **** on Jun 21, 2016 7:11:56 GMT -6
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Post by lochness on Jun 21, 2016 10:35:14 GMT -6
We have a weird situation that falls into this category...and I'm not sure how to deal with it.
We have a rising junior class of 23. They started out as 15 freshmen. The kids in that class LOVE football...love playing for us, love our systems, love the off-season. The core has gone out and recruited more guys, telling them how much fun it is etc. They're tight and committed and regardless of our record over the next two years...I know we're going to have fun because they are a tremendous and tight group. We have a rising sophomore class of 6. It started out as 12 freshmen last season (really 13, but one kid quit in August when I told him we couldn't afford to keep him as the 3rd string Freshman QB on a team of 13 kids). We only got 5 of them back, and we have one transfer. Same group of coaches, same systems, same expectations, etc. Now granted, the 5 we got back were the 5 best in that group...but to lose more than half a class is troublesome to say the least. I've seen classes who are not bought in and who suck in my time...but never have I seen any single group just execute a mass-exodus like this.
All the typical excuses:
"Need to focus on academics"
"Don't want to get hurt"
"Want to be a Pro Lacrosse / Baseball / Basketball / Water Polo / Equestrian Athlete"
We had a very good varsity season last year (playoff team, 8-1 regular season, etc), and went undefeated sub-varsity.
I have no idea what happened, and neither does anyone else (leaders, returning peers, coaches, etc). They just "don't like football" is what everyone is saying. So, do we just have a "dead class?" I don't know. If I were losing my seniors and juniors (as opposed to growing those groups), I'd be very concerned about our culture...but we're not. We had fun with our frosh groups last year. They got varsity-level indy instruction, practiced team and group on their own, etc. They played good ball for us, everyone contributed and we won all our games. We typically got them out of practice early and we gave them days off when appropriate. Just can't, for the life of me, figure it out.
But, like jlenwood said, I've been pondering it since sign-ups and it's eating at me, because as "healthy" as our program is over the next 2 seasons...we'll die a quick death after that. I can't imagine that we did anything to run these guys off...and I can't imagine taking a hard, long look at our culture when our upperclassmen are all loving what we do and growing the participation numbers. I'm a pretty intuitive guy, and I'm pretty sure we have an inclusive, fun, safe and respectful culture. And, I'm not going to lower my expectations or change what I do just to make these guys happy. I don't think that's right...particularly where it's WORKED for our other groups.
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Post by blb on Jun 21, 2016 10:40:27 GMT -6
loch, I feel ya. Had a similar thing happen at my last job.
Unfortunately I don't have any answers for you, just empathy.
Except to echo your last couple sentences. |
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Post by lochness on Jun 21, 2016 11:11:46 GMT -6
And the other (more ominous) question is...what do you ultimately do? Do you step down, saying that obviously you weren't selling the program to / reaching the kids and it's time for someone else to come in and try a different approach?
That would sadden me...but if I'm not a good cultural fit, I'll move on. I don't want to be the reason kids aren't playing.
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Post by blb on Jun 21, 2016 11:45:42 GMT -6
And the other (more ominous) question is...what do you ultimately do? Do you step down, saying that obviously you weren't selling the program to / reaching the kids and it's time for someone else to come in and try a different approach? That would sadden me...but if I'm not a good cultural fit, I'll move on. I don't want to be the reason kids aren't playing.
Well, this probably won't help you, but I resigned - in part because I was a year away from Social Security, and partly because it didn't appear things were going to significantly improve.
Naturally since then they changed leagues, into one where they won't be smallest school in league anymore and should be able to compete a little better.
A mitigating factor was by then I had lost all but one of coaches who were teachers because district paid so poorly it wasn't worth the time to them.
So I had to rely on "Daddy" coaches and college students who were former players.
In other words I had to do most everything - Summer workouts, game prep - by myself.
Didn't want to do it anymore.
When you go into most Friday nights knowing winning isn't a consideration regardless of what you do, it isn't much fun.
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Post by funkfriss on Jun 21, 2016 11:46:18 GMT -6
And the other (more ominous) question is...what do you ultimately do? Do you step down, saying that obviously you weren't selling the program to / reaching the kids and it's time for someone else to come in and try a different approach? That would sadden me...but if I'm not a good cultural fit, I'll move on. I don't want to be the reason kids aren't playing. Boy I hear you for sure loch but that would be one tough inner conversation. Another thing to consider is the kids themselves. While I agree with blb on his 2 reasons MOSY kids play I think a few play for other reasons. Some play for personal glory. Some play because they feel like they have to by parents, peers, coaches, or community. I think you'll find different levels of love for the game on every team. Now if you have almost an entire team full of it, I'm guessing it's because they've never won, it was never fun, and they don't care about each other. And that all starts way before you get them at the high school. |
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Post by lochness on Jun 21, 2016 11:56:34 GMT -6
And the other (more ominous) question is...what do you ultimately do? Do you step down, saying that obviously you weren't selling the program to / reaching the kids and it's time for someone else to come in and try a different approach? That would sadden me...but if I'm not a good cultural fit, I'll move on. I don't want to be the reason kids aren't playing. Boy I hear you for sure loch but that would be one tough inner conversation. Another thing to consider is the kids themselves. While I agree with blb on his 2 reasons MOSY kids play I think a few play for other reasons. Some play for personal glory. Some play because they feel like they have to by parents, peers, coaches, or community. I think you'll find different levels of love for the game on every team. Now if you have almost an entire team full of it, I'm guessing it's because they've never won, it was never fun, and they don't care about each other. And that all starts way before you get them at the high school. True enough. I just feel badly. It's hard not to take it personally sometimes. The saving grace is that every class except this one has been steadily better (we've improved from 2-7 my first year taking over the program), and our rising juniors (and seniors) are off-the-charts good dudes. I just feel bad for them that there's no "backup" behind them. |
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Post by fcboiler87 on Jun 21, 2016 13:06:38 GMT -6
I don't know that there is a great answer to this question. We might all have better teams if we knew it.
I hear ya loch, we have the same thing going on here. 10 seniors, 15 juniors, then our sophomore class is bottoming out. There were 17 of them in 8th grade, 10 of them as freshman. Now we are down to 5, and that includes a kid who hasn't even played since 7th grade. From what I'm told, the majority of those not coming back and are lazy and would rather puff the magic dragon all the time. The ones back are the better ones but then we lost a kid who would have started varsity today because his dad (who supports us well) decided to up and move cross country. Our incoming freshmen numbers look to be approximately 20, but that is down from 33 as 8th graders and includes a few new kids. And these kids, despite higher numbers have never been a successful group in their life, losing most games they have played.
We should be okay the next two years, but after that it's bleak. I'm like you, you think a hundred ways of what you can do but until we get there I really don't know the answer.
I talk with the kids all the time and try to get a pulse on things but even they don't have the answers or know what the deal is most of the time.
I guess we just keep doing what we're doing and going forth until we realize it's time to stop or move on.
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Post by fballcoachg on Jun 21, 2016 13:07:56 GMT -6
What makes them play? Seeing value in it...and that is different for most. We are trying to grow a program and have seen our numbers go up some, this is the value I believe some of our kids see in playing football.
We have some that play and would play regardless of who is running the program, they love football and love competing.
We have some that play because they feel like they should (parental pressure, played all the way through) and want to see it through whether they like it or not.
We have many that play because they like the camaraderie
We have many that play because they are having fun and like the atmosphere of the program
We have some that play because they were talked in to it by their peers
My preference would be a team full of guys that love football, like camaraderie, and are having fun as well as guys that are peer pressured in to trying it out then become one of the first three.
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Post by husky44 on Jun 21, 2016 13:42:48 GMT -6
Mind sharing some ideas on how you do that?
First and most importantly, coaches need to be as positive and enthusiastic as can be - it is possible to chew azz with a smile on your face.
Second, do some things just for fun but still Football-related.
For example, we did a Scoop 'n Score Drill for Warm-up one day during Pre-Season instead of Form Running or whatever.
Instead of running sprints at end of practice, do Arch Drill with entire team including linemen once in awhile.
When we did run 40s for Conditioning during Two-a-Days, we would run one for each "win" and yell name of an opponent off LOS.
To finish Monday practices we did "Beat (opponents)" Drill ('Perfect Play') instead of traditional conditioning.
I did "Ape Drill" with LBers when I sensed they were getting mentally stale - one be leader in front of rest inside ten-yard square. He could do whatever he wanted - Jumping Jacks, Shuffle, Seat Rolls, somersault, pushups, etc. for about ten seconds and others had to imitate or "ape" him. When I called "Out!!" he would try to "score" through square and others would gang tackle.
(I also would do a 'Man in the Middle' Drill for pass breaks and let them be the passers).
Midway through practice we did "Sky Drill" - after getting water kids laid on their backs with helmets on chest looking up at sky (hopefully visualizing success during games) for 3-4 minutes.
We would "force" enthusiasm by doing a 15-second clap and breakdown when I called them up for Team Comment at beginning and end of practice.
If it fits your personality, exhibit a sense of humor when appropriate.
I felt that because we ran option and passed on offense and were a multiple, aggressive, stunting-blitzing defense our kids had fun playing our systems.
I'm sure there were others but without writing a book those were the things that sprang immediately to mind.
What is the Arch Drill? |
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Post by blb on Jun 21, 2016 14:16:17 GMT -6
husky44, some call it "Passing Circle" or "Pat 'n Go."
Line up a QB on each sideline (or MOF with QBs 40 yards apart) with a line of Receivers 15 yards away from them on right side.
When QB pats ball or says "Go!" Receiver runs straight down field and QB throws high, arching pass to him.
Receiver catches pass (unless OL-DL!) and continues to other line giving ball to other passer.
After each line has gone down and back on right side, switch them to left side.
Like a Basketball passing drill.
Helps QBs to work on throwing "Trajectory 3" passes and reminds linemen why they're lineman. Or maybe you'll find a TE.
Meanwhile they're all getting a little "concealed" running in.
Emphasize running on toes like a Baseball outfielder, "Get the point!" (concentrate on catching the front tip of ball), Catch it, tuck it in OUTSIDE arm, then run.
If ball is overthrown, accelerate, run through it.
If underthrown, plant, turn back to QB, come back and catch at highest point.
QBs have feet set like back in pocket after 5-7 step drop, push off back foot so shoulders wind up over front foot with knee bent-back foot naturally and slightly off ground, elbow high and follow through, eyes on receiver until he catches ball (do not let them look up to watch ball in flight).
When throwing to left for right-handed QB, emphasize throwing ball to outside of receiver (not TO him) because ball will naturally spin back inside. Which in a game will be an inter-danm-ception.
No diving for bad passes though because you don't want any injuries in drill. |
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Post by s73 on Jun 21, 2016 14:48:30 GMT -6
Another thing that we do to "make it fun" is what we originally called the fumble recovery drill but now we call it "Boo Nick". I'll explain the name below.
Anyway, every coach gets a football (5 varsity for us). The coaches stand in the EZ and the team lines up on the GL facing the field with their backs to us. On the whistle, they'll run straight ahead and cannot turn their heads to look at us. We all throw a ball as far as we can. As they are running the balls land in front of them (all 5) and as soon as they see them it is their job to "recover the fumble". It's really fun and funny to see 30 kids scrambling to recover 5 footballs simultaneously.
The first 5 who recover a ball jog back and hand them to the coaches. Now we have 25 kids and we start all over. Once we get to 20 we remove 1 ball from the drill. Once we get to 15 another, then 10 another. Finally, once we get to 2 we only have 1 ball left. The last kid left who doesn't recover a ball gets obnoxiously booed by his teammates in a "I'm just busting your balls" fun kind of way. No animosity intended.
Has been pretty good to us, the kids like it and they do a lot of running b/c nobody wants to be last. Again, it's all in fun, no animosity on the booing part.
The reason its' called "Boo Nick" in b/c the original class that I did it with had a kid whose first name was Nick and he was last like the first 4 times we did it.
Not gonna lie, after about 4x or so he did kind of take it hard so we managed to throw the ball in a way that he would finally recover one which when he did, it was like him winning the super bowl. After that he didn't mind so much.
We only do it a a couple times a year and really have to emphasize people not taking out another dude when going for the ball, but once the safety of it gets established, guys really have fun and battle their a$$es off to recover the football.
To me it's a nice way to incorporate running, recovery skills, competition, fun and the booing part to me is humorous. It can be humbling but again we emphasize to the kids that it's not personal. usually they find it funny as well. Like I said before, if a kid is taking it hard then we make sure he recovers one the next time with "strategic throwing.
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Post by s73 on Jun 21, 2016 15:07:22 GMT -6
I should emphasize that although my post above does show our fun side, we have many of the same troubles as everyone else. Numbers are slightly on the rise this year but our soph class has struggled for about 3 years now.
The biggest thing is in the summer we always start strong for about a week or so and then kids who are maybe not as good as others start to slack on attendance. I have taken as many pains as I can to make sure I;m getting everyone reps but it still happens regardless.
I really don't have any answers either other than we try to schedule our summer as player friendly as we can w/o giving up preparation. I have really tried to schedule as minimally as I can w/o hurting our chances for success.
But, when the rubber meets the road, I think it comes down to some kids just don't want to get up in the summer.
And for me personally, I think I have a personality that when a kid is not giving an honest effort I have to say something about it. Sometimes I do it gently, but I think we've all had "our moments" when you have to repeat yourself regularly about the same thing over and over to the same kid.
I think many of these kids don't get corrected at home like they should at times and hearing some tough critique can be more difficult for some than others, hence you lose some kids.
But I have always said that whatever I do on the football field will reflect the way I coach and discipline at home. I'm a stricter father than most and some just don't take to it but I feel while I make mistakes, in the long run I may not be giving kids what they always want, but I am trying to give them what I think they need.
Some grow into it and some don't. IMO, that's the nature of the beast.
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Post by fantom on Jun 21, 2016 15:08:50 GMT -6
And the other (more ominous) question is...what do you ultimately do? Do you step down, saying that obviously you weren't selling the program to / reaching the kids and it's time for someone else to come in and try a different approach? That would sadden me...but if I'm not a good cultural fit, I'll move on. I don't want to be the reason kids aren't playing. Coach, tough it out. As I read it you may be good this your but you're worried about next year. Phuk it. Enjoy this year then worry about next year. |
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Post by realdawg on Jun 21, 2016 16:33:40 GMT -6
Kids ultimately play because its fun. Whatever the reason is that they find fun in differs from kid to kid. We got some kids who love the wt. room, love to work out. We got some that wanna play basketball on grass. But whatever it is, they find it fun. That being said, at our place its still "cool" to be on the football team, and that always helps.
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Post by mariner42 on Jun 21, 2016 20:34:09 GMT -6
And the other (more ominous) question is...what do you ultimately do? Do you step down, saying that obviously you weren't selling the program to / reaching the kids and it's time for someone else to come in and try a different approach? That would sadden me...but if I'm not a good cultural fit, I'll move on. I don't want to be the reason kids aren't playing. You're the OG of "we'll find SOMEONE to do the job", I'm sure you'll find a way. Get your five studs to bring out one friend a piece, now you've got ten guys that like each other and will play for each other. That's good enough for a senior class with some good coaching. |
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Post by jlenwood on Jun 21, 2016 21:43:12 GMT -6
I appreciate the responses, but I do have to wonder about the "winning cures everything". We were coming off of 3-4 very successful years when the slide began. And I also think it is going on in some of the other sports at our school, so much so that we are becoming that school that everyone can't wait to play, no matter what the sport.
I just feel that football, and in some instances all sports, are just not as important to a kid and what he expects his high school years to be about as they may have been 5-10 years ago. To those of you who are having some of the same thoughts, what about your other sports? Are any of them thriving, and if so what are they doing special to capture the athletes?
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Post by blb on Jun 22, 2016 5:18:30 GMT -6
I don't know if this is relevant, but it is different than before.
At my last job the Youth League teams started practice about the same time we did (early August), practiced almost every night, and their season lasted as long as ours (late October).
They played home games in our stadium with PA, scoreboard, cheerleaders, names on their uniforms - the whole bit.
It's possible that by the time they get to HS some of them have had enough or the HS experience isn't "special" - they've "been there, done that" except we tell them they've got to lift weights the other nine months too.
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Post by rsmith627 on Jun 22, 2016 5:41:09 GMT -6
I don't know if this is relevant, but it is different than before. At my last job the Youth League teams started practice about the same time we did (early August), practiced almost every night, and their season lasted as long as ours (late October). They played home games in our stadium with PA, scoreboard, cheerleaders, names on their uniforms - the whole bit. It's possible that by the time they get to HS some of them have had enough or the HS experience isn't "special" - they've "been there, done that" except we tell them they've got to lift weights the other nine months too. Our program is aligned from 7-12th grade. Having one coherent program is awesome, but I think you're right in that by the time they get to high school nothing we do is a new experience, so it just isn't that cool. To answer the topic, our kids come out because we win and win often. As blb knows though, I'm in a great situation. Third largest school in the state, and our conference is down right now. Even in a bad year the worst we will do is come in second in the league, and even still we will win it most years while our rivals remain down. |
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Post by olcoach53 on Jun 22, 2016 7:00:25 GMT -6
It is a cyclical situation as to why kids play or do not play. They play because the team is successful and it is a well run program and the like having fun, this in turn causes winning which in turn causes pressure which causes higher standards which causes coaches pushing a little harder and then that finally turns kids away because it is "too hard" or "takes too much time"
That compacted with the unfortunate specialization of sports and every 5'9 kid thinking he can play in the NBA.
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Post by sweep26 on Jun 22, 2016 9:17:06 GMT -6
Boy I hear you for sure loch but that would be one tough inner conversation. Another thing to consider is the kids themselves. While I agree with blb on his 2 reasons MOSY kids play I think a few play for other reasons. Some play for personal glory. Some play because they feel like they have to by parents, peers, coaches, or community. I think you'll find different levels of love for the game on every team. Now if you have almost an entire team full of it, I'm guessing it's because they've never won, it was never fun, and they don't care about each other. And that all starts way before you get them at the high school. True enough. I just feel badly. It's hard not to take it personally sometimes. The saving grace is that every class except this one has been steadily better (we've improved from 2-7 my first year taking over the program), and our rising juniors (and seniors) are off-the-charts good dudes. I just feel bad for them that there's no "backup" behind them. You obviously value the qualities of your rising Jr's and Sr's...talk to them about your concerns regarding the low number of participants in the rising Soph. class. Get their opinion...good kids that love the game will be honest with you. What your rising upper-classmen have to say may completely alleviate your concerns. From the outside, looking in, I would suggest that you just continue to be yourself and coach the heck out of the ones that decide to play. Have fun, WIN, and let the chips fall where they may. |
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