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Post by fcboiler87 on Jun 22, 2016 9:26:21 GMT -6
I think olcoach53 makes a good point about success. Our place has never been successful outside of the last 10 years. There is a real sense of arrogance and entitlement. Part of what we have done is try to bring them down to earth a bit and make them work for it so they understand it's not just given because we're ____ that we're going to be good. That has probably been the biggest struggle. In their minds they should be winning conference and section titles when the talent and work put in does not give us that chance. Perhaps success is a problem outside of your traditional powers in that they don't understand how to handle it. Of course that's our job as coaches to keep an even keel for the program.
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Post by ahall005 on Jun 22, 2016 11:20:41 GMT -6
I appreciate the responses, but I do have to wonder about the "winning cures everything". We were coming off of 3-4 very successful years when the slide began. And I also think it is going on in some of the other sports at our school, so much so that we are becoming that school that everyone can't wait to play, no matter what the sport. I just feel that football, and in some instances all sports, are just not as important to a kid and what he expects his high school years to be about as they may have been 5-10 years ago. To those of you who are having some of the same thoughts, what about your other sports? Are any of them thriving, and if so what are they doing special to capture the athletes? I also wonder about the "winning cures everything" especially at the small school level... from 08-11 we had some of the better years we had ever had at our school and after that the bottom fell out and has not come back yet. at small schools unfortunately you are going to have some classes that have a lot of kids who like football and some that don't... I also think sports are not as important to some kids as they used to be. I think the reason some kids don't play football now is there is not instant gratification that they are looking for and they are not patient enough to wait for the pay off. For instance you don't get instant gratification from off season lifting or grinding out a week at practice you have to wait for only 10 Fridays during the fall and a lot of kids don't think its a big enough pay off... I don't have a problem with doing things/ drills that are "fun" occasionally but I think the "fun" part of football should be being with your friends, Pushing yourself to get better, hitting people, the sense of accomplishment of making it through practice or a game, playing under the lights, and ultimately winning a game.... I think the word fun is what actually causes some of the problem... For me playing football was the most fun thing I have ever done. However it is not the same type of fun you have as going out to parties or playing video games all day.
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Post by rsmith627 on Jun 22, 2016 11:33:48 GMT -6
I appreciate the responses, but I do have to wonder about the "winning cures everything". We were coming off of 3-4 very successful years when the slide began. And I also think it is going on in some of the other sports at our school, so much so that we are becoming that school that everyone can't wait to play, no matter what the sport. I just feel that football, and in some instances all sports, are just not as important to a kid and what he expects his high school years to be about as they may have been 5-10 years ago. To those of you who are having some of the same thoughts, what about your other sports? Are any of them thriving, and if so what are they doing special to capture the athletes? I also wonder about the "winning cures everything" especially at the small school level... from 08-11 we had some of the better years we had ever had at our school and after that the bottom fell out and has not come back yet. at small schools unfortunately you are going to have some classes that have a lot of kids who like football and some that don't... I also think sports are not as important to some kids as they used to be. I think the reason some kids don't play football now is there is not instant gratification that they are looking for and they are not patient enough to wait for the pay off. For instance you don't get instant gratification from off season lifting or grinding out a week at practice you have to wait for only 10 Fridays during the fall and a lot of kids don't think its a big enough pay off... I don't have a problem with doing things/ drills that are "fun" occasionally but I think the "fun" part of football should be being with your friends, Pushing yourself to get better, hitting people, the sense of accomplishment of making it through practice or a game, playing under the lights, and ultimately winning a game.... I think the word fun is what actually causes some of the problem... For me playing football was the most fun thing I have ever done. However it is not the same type of fun you have as going out to parties or playing video games all day. Maybe winning isn't a cure all but it helps a lot of situations. Kids want to be a part of something, and if it's something where they can feel like winners, even better. Interesting take on the small school scenario. You have far less control over who you get when your student body is a few hundred as opposed to nearly 3,000 kids in the high school like we have. In a down year we are still going to have 50 on the frosh team, 50 or so on the JV, and 70 on the varsity. To contrast that I have also been in places where we barely had enough to field a competitive team compared to the rest of the conference. The athletes would say they don't play because losing sucks, but we wouldn't have lost if they would have just played and brought a few buddies. It is tough to get a program out of that kind of funk. If it were really as simple as saying just win games, why don't more guys just win games?
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Post by dubber on Jun 22, 2016 12:10:46 GMT -6
Kids like playing with their friends.
That's all you need.
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Post by sweep26 on Jun 22, 2016 13:19:50 GMT -6
Regarding small schools...the culture and values of the community can be a huge factor. I coached in a small community for 14 years, every Friday night was a social event and the stands were packed. We were ranked in the State's top 10 each year, but very few of those kids played football college, they just enjoyed playing high school football. Participation #'s was never a problem.
I might also add that on Sunday's most of those kids and their families were in Church. I credit the community and their values for the success that we had.
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Post by coachjo14 on Jun 22, 2016 14:58:38 GMT -6
When I worked at the high school level everyone always wanted to know how you were going to get the kids out there. When I became a head coach everyone wanted to know how I was going to get the kids out there. So I hit the hallways, I met the kids, I talked to the parents, I did everything I could think of short of paying them to come out there. So we get to spring ball and we have a ton of guys out there... Sadly there weren't many football players. I spent more time dealing with injury reports, kids getting in trouble, parents and their issues, than I did coaching that first spring. I hated it.
The demands of a legit summer program and making them attend x amount of work outs before they could play ended up cutting that group from around 120 to 35. One of the major school board guys says, "Coach what happened I heard you had great numbers and now you have less than the last coach did?" I told him "I don't need more players. I need better players. Guys who want to work hard and be a part of something that is bigger than them. I don't want guys out there who are just playing a sport to get their dad off their back. Those guys can play other sports and get a letter and a jacket. I want kids who want to be here and want to work."
We did much better than the year before and continued to grow. Sometimes I wish I would have stayed long enough to see that Freshman class through and now I know I won't take another HC job unless I am ready to settle down and see my guys through.
One of my good friends who was a D1 coach at the time came through and saw some kids in the hallway and he kept asking does that guy play for you? I replied no he doesn't I wish he did. He finally asked why not? I told him "Sadly all I'm offering them is the hot sun, a weight room with no A/C, physical contact, and a chance to be great. However, they'd rather sit home in the A/C play video games, do social media, drink kool-aid, and eat snack food. Most of them have either come out and quit, refused to put in the time, don't have the grades, and a few are going to graduate before the fall." Lord knows I kept trying to get them out there, but if they wouldn't do it I couldn't make em.
The ones who came out had a pretty good time, got a chance to experience new things, and a number got an opportunity to play at the next level. For the life of me I can't figure it out because when I was a kid I loved football. I played all kinds of sports growing up, but I was all about football.
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Post by mariner42 on Jun 22, 2016 15:56:09 GMT -6
Kids like playing with their friends. That's all you need. I've got a kid that's going to be a rockstar FB or FS for us this year and the main reason he came out was because his friends are on the team and he wanted to spend more time with them. I got legitimately excited over that, I don't know if there's a better reason.
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Post by fantom on Jun 22, 2016 16:46:35 GMT -6
Kids like playing with their friends. That's all you need. I've got a kid that's going to be a rockstar FB or FS for us this year and the main reason he came out was because his friends are on the team and he wanted to spend more time with them. I got legitimately excited over that, I don't know if there's a better reason. That's one reason why I'm reluctant to cut a kid unless he forces you to by behavior. You never know who has a friend, or brother, or cousin.
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Post by coachjo14 on Jun 22, 2016 17:13:30 GMT -6
fantomSucks when one quits they usually take one or two with them too.
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Post by indian1 on Jun 22, 2016 18:51:47 GMT -6
Kids play football at our school because they have a good experience doing so. Make the experience a positive, educational one.
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Post by lochness on Jun 22, 2016 19:49:37 GMT -6
When I worked at the high school level everyone always wanted to know how you were going to get the kids out there. When I became a head coach everyone wanted to know how I was going to get the kids out there. So I hit the hallways, I met the kids, I talked to the parents, I did everything I could think of short of paying them to come out there. So we get to spring ball and we have a ton of guys out there... Sadly there weren't many football players. I spent more time dealing with injury reports, kids getting in trouble, parents and their issues, than I did coaching that first spring. I hated it. The demands of a legit summer program and making them attend x amount of work outs before they could play ended up cutting that group from around 120 to 35. One of the major school board guys says, "Coach what happened I heard you had great numbers and now you have less than the last coach did?" I told him "I don't need more players. I need better players. Guys who want to work hard and be a part of something that is bigger than them. I don't want guys out there who are just playing a sport to get their dad off their back. Those guys can play other sports and get a letter and a jacket. I want kids who want to be here and want to work." We did much better than the year before and continued to grow. Sometimes I wish I would have stayed long enough to see that Freshman class through and now I know I won't take another HC job unless I am ready to settle down and see my guys through. One of my good friends who was a D1 coach at the time came through and saw some kids in the hallway and he kept asking does that guy play for you? I replied no he doesn't I wish he did. He finally asked why not? I told him "Sadly all I'm offering them is the hot sun, a weight room with no A/C, physical contact, and a chance to be great. However, they'd rather sit home in the A/C play video games, do social media, drink kool-aid, and eat snack food. Most of them have either come out and quit, refused to put in the time, don't have the grades, and a few are going to graduate before the fall." Lord knows I kept trying to get them out there, but if they wouldn't do it I couldn't make em. The ones who came out had a pretty good time, got a chance to experience new things, and a number got an opportunity to play at the next level. For the life of me I can't figure it out because when I was a kid I loved football. I played all kinds of sports growing up, but I was all about football. This is a fantastic post. I read it twice just to let it sink in. Nice job coach.
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Post by mariner42 on Jun 22, 2016 21:19:38 GMT -6
fantom Sucks when one quits they usually take one or two with them too. We lost our JV QB, top 4 RBs, and an OLB between last year and now because of this. RB 1 quits for basketball, RB 2 quits because he's worried he's too small, QB quits because he says he doesn't enjoy it, RB 3 quits for no real reason, OLB quits because that's almost his whole group of friends gone, RB 4 quits because of the whole deal.
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Post by coachjo14 on Jun 22, 2016 21:52:54 GMT -6
fantom Sucks when one quits they usually take one or two with them too. We lost our JV QB, top 4 RBs, and an OLB between last year and now because of this. RB 1 quits for basketball, RB 2 quits because he's worried he's too small, QB quits because he says he doesn't enjoy it, RB 3 quits for no real reason, OLB quits because that's almost his whole group of friends gone, RB 4 quits because of the whole deal. How in the world are quitters the leaders? I don't get it but its the case. How are the bitter complaining ones the loudest? Its crazy. I do love the "my hearts just not in it anymore coach" call. With most of our guys it is b.s. they started in high school. They play on our freshmen team then when they have to work for it they fold. I think the craziest thing to me is guys quit on the team and hang out with the team still. When I was in school we only hung out together. No quitters, no negative folks, no haters. We were all we had and we were all we needed.
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Post by coachjo14 on Jun 22, 2016 22:00:26 GMT -6
lochnessThanks coach. I read your earlier Post and I doubt you have anything to do with why some kids aren't playing. Unless you're going to scrap your expectations and bend ur knee forevery kid youre always going to lose some from the team. I hate it cuz I want to reach every kid and help them be their best, but every kid doesn't choose to be great. They chose to take the exit instead of paying the toll. If you legit care about your kids it will show and work out. Be blessed.
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mhs99
Junior Member
Posts: 250
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Post by mhs99 on Jun 22, 2016 22:10:57 GMT -6
I also wonder about the "winning cures everything" especially at the small school level... from 08-11 we had some of the better years we had ever had at our school and after that the bottom fell out and has not come back yet. at small schools unfortunately you are going to have some classes that have a lot of kids who like football and some that don't... I also think sports are not as important to some kids as they used to be. I think the reason some kids don't play football now is there is not instant gratification that they are looking for and they are not patient enough to wait for the pay off. For instance you don't get instant gratification from off season lifting or grinding out a week at practice you have to wait for only 10 Fridays during the fall and a lot of kids don't think its a big enough pay off... I don't have a problem with doing things/ drills that are "fun" occasionally but I think the "fun" part of football should be being with your friends, Pushing yourself to get better, hitting people, the sense of accomplishment of making it through practice or a game, playing under the lights, and ultimately winning a game.... I think the word fun is what actually causes some of the problem... For me playing football was the most fun thing I have ever done. However it is not the same type of fun you have as going out to parties or playing video games all day. Maybe winning isn't a cure all but it helps a lot of situations. Kids want to be a part of something, and if it's something where they can feel like winners, even better. Interesting take on the small school scenario. You have far less control over who you get when your student body is a few hundred as opposed to nearly 3,000 kids in the high school like we have. In a down year we are still going to have 50 on the frosh team, 50 or so on the JV, and 70 on the varsity. To contrast that I have also been in places where we barely had enough to field a competitive team compared to the rest of the conference. The athletes would say they don't play because losing sucks, but we wouldn't have lost if they would have just played and brought a few buddies. It is tough to get a program out of that kind of funk. If it were really as simple as saying just win games, why don't more guys just win games? Bingo. You are very correct on small programs. Unless you are lucky enough to be in a community where it is old school blue collar, value minded "middle America" winning may not change your numbers. We have been blessed with some real good athletes for a school of less than 500 kids, our staff works hard has been together for years, teaches the game the right way and treats kids positively, we have a lot of fun, and have won two state titles in the past six years....yet each year after we have won a state title our numbers have actually gone DOWN. Question is WHY? I have done a lot of thinking on this. The answer is probably a couple of reasons: 1. Kids do not buy into team nearly as much today as in the past decades. With the proliferation of AAU, 6 year old All-Star teams, and one day camps, etc. it is no wonder kids and parents want to know what is it the program can do for them and not the other way around. 2. We are a no BS outfit in football and do not coddle. Kids know they are trated fairly and will get better when we coach them up, but they know we are going to psuh, have high expectations, want them in a weight program, and demand hours. Kids today want to be coddled and made to feel special and in a small school this is even more pronounced as kids believe they have greater leverage and can hold the coach and program "hostage". At larger programs these type kids gets their nuts cut off and it is next man up; at a small program some coaches worry the next guy up might be a freshman who is not ready and will be a safety issue to himself and to his teammates 3. Multi-sport kids are pushed to play out of season and fall baseball and basketball hit at football rosters much harder at small schools. Baseball and basketball are sports kids enjoy because they see them as more "fun", much of that is because they have greater control and lets be honest it is less physically and mentally taxing. 4. Kids do not like to compete and want things handed to them. When kids think we might be down, we actually get more kids to jump in because they feel like they can see the field without a lot of competition. All true, had a player of ours said his buddy, a very good athlete, did not come out because he would have had to win a spot and did not just want to "play special teams". 5. Kids are just softer today in general and have not developed a lot of testicular fortitude or grit. Passive school administrations, new parenting styles, and a me and handout society may all be culprits....
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Post by blb on Jun 23, 2016 8:44:13 GMT -6
As jlenwood and lochness have stated, winning does not always cure everything.
My last job I took over a program that had won six games total the previous three years. Our first three we won 24, the first district championship in school history, and first conference championship in 35 years.
And then the roof fell in.
One bad class can damage your program, especially at a small school. We had BACK-TO-BACK bad classes, one because of worse than poor commitment-work ethic, the second because of numbers.
Bottom line, we are at the mercy of 14-18 year old boys.
Sometimes all you can do is all you can do.
Run the program the best you know how-according to what you believe in (perhaps adapt or adjust some because each situation is different) - until it becomes untenable for you.
As I have posted before, "There are more good football coaches than there are good football programs," and "The best coaches don't always win."
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