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Post by hunhdisciple on Jun 10, 2016 7:06:55 GMT -6
I've got a guy, and he's a very good high school athlete especially considering our competition. But, he's just that. A high school athlete.
He keeps telling people in the community and other players and teachers, that he's either going to UCLA, Ohio State, Oregon, Alabama or Florida State. He's hired a "professional recruitment specialist" because he's told us that we aren't smart enough to get him signed and that we're holding him back. This recruiter keeps telling people that he's been meeting with all sorts of national coaches, and that he had dinner with Jimbo, and he was raving about this player. He was on a call with the UCLA staff, and he's at the top of their prospect list. Oregon considers him a must-get kind of guy. All sorts of stuff like that. Keeps telling people that these coaches were at games and that they were so impressed with him. You all can probably guess how much of that is true.
Here's the reality: He's slower than any skill guy any of those schools will sign, ever. He's about 9 inches too small and about 85lbs too light. He's soft and has average hands. But we play enough teams with minimal athletes, that he looks like Randy Moss at times. He's going into his senior year, and is not a major college prospect, period. None of those schools will ever sign him or even consider him, period. He might MIGHT play at an average NAIA or D-III school. Maybe.
How do you handle this? I have no idea how to shatter a kids unrealistic dreams, but he's going to miss out on actual colleges he can play for, because he won't return any of their questions and stuff. He's a pretty good kid just trying any way to get out of the ghetto and raise him family up.
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Post by blb on Jun 10, 2016 7:12:33 GMT -6
Have him go to a couple "Combines" or D-I camps this Summer to see what the real world - and real big-time WRs - look like.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jun 10, 2016 7:17:47 GMT -6
Yeah, and make it a really good camp. Hell, sell it as you trying to help him out. Sometimes, if you watch very closely, you can spot the exact moment he realizes what's happening.
There's also the chance he's so deep up his own butt it won't matter, but if that's the case then not much will help. Every year around this time I start getting desperate emails from kids who massively overplayed their hand and are now desperate.
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Post by bignose on Jun 10, 2016 7:32:22 GMT -6
We had a similar situation a couple of years ago.
We had a parent hire a "recruiting dude" ( Ben Franklin was right: "A fool and his money are soon parted." ) and the parent raised hell with the HC about not featuring his son in the offense. The kid was a wide receiver, talented, but not D1 quality, he was just a tad too slow, he ran a 4.6, and they want those 4.4 kids as "blue chippers."
We ran the DW and had just won a State Championship in a game where we threw the ball 3 times.
The kid ended up playing lower level FBS as a defensive back. He eventually got a full ride, but the parent made the HC and administration miserable during his senior season and bad mouthed us until his kid got an offer.
Meeting with the parent for a reality check wouldn't be a bad idea, but generally, it is the parent who is paying the recruiting service, who has similar unrealistic ideas, and sees the High School program as a scholarship entitlement deal.
You've got to submit film to the schools you think he can play for, and let the guy they are paying try to promote him to the upper level schools………
Develop a fall back plan.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jun 10, 2016 7:37:41 GMT -6
Those recruiting promoters are shady. There's a reason you should never pay an agent up front.
There's some really scummy stuff that goes on in recruiting, especially in that low-FBS and FCS range.
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Post by bluboy on Jun 10, 2016 7:40:13 GMT -6
Have him go to a couple "Combines" or D-I camps this Summer to see what the real world - and real big-time WRs - look like. I agree with blb. We had a guy a while back who was a great athlete, but was not big enough or fast enough to play D1. After competing against some "thoroughbreds" at a combine, his shortcomings were obvious to everyone. |
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Post by blb on Jun 10, 2016 7:46:57 GMT -6
Ask him how many of those schools - FSU, UCLA, Oregon et al - have invited him to a one-day camp on campus.
If they haven't they're not interested and may not even know he's alive.
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Post by brophy on Jun 10, 2016 9:08:06 GMT -6
has he ever been to any major college camp?
That becomes the reality check most kids like this need.
When the family pumps them up and they validate this by getting form letters from Universities after they've submitted an online inquiry, its all they need to think they are scholarship bound
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Post by rsmith627 on Jun 10, 2016 9:08:31 GMT -6
It's amazing what some of these kids think. I had a freshman qb start on JV for me last year. He's an excellent athlete, has an average arm for a high school QB, and comes in at 5'6 on a good day. He's pretty sure he is going to play QB at Michigan State.
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Post by coachgutz on Jun 10, 2016 9:09:26 GMT -6
Have him go to a couple "Combines" or D-I camps this Summer to see what the real world - and real big-time WRs - look like. I think this is a great idea. We take kids to camps all the time so they can see where they really stand with schools outside of our area. We had a group of kids one year that had many kids swearing they were going D-1. We put together a power point of all the traits of D-1 athletes: all league/area, stat leader for their position, etc. None of our kids were close. Then we showed a list of questions I was asked by coaches when they were looking at kids. Grades, Behavior, work ethic. We were trying to change the culture and making it important to train year round not just show up in august. Finally we made a list of kids from the school who had gone D-1. It was a hard reality check for many. We summed it up by stressing the importance of playing for each other not scholarships. If they were that good it would come. We also explained how there were other opportunities to play like D-III or NAIA that may fit some. |
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Post by 19delta on Jun 10, 2016 9:10:50 GMT -6
Yeah, and make it a really good camp. Hell, sell it as you trying to help him out. Sometimes, if you watch very closely, you can spot the exact moment he realizes what's happening. |
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jun 10, 2016 9:21:22 GMT -6
I understand wanting to let kids down gently. I had to develop some strategies for this and this is what I've used in the past. #1: Let the numbers speak for themselves. I use links like these to show players and parents that if their kid doesn't fit the physical standards, that it can be a deterrent. www.prweb.com/releases/division-one-football/recruiting-guidelines/prweb9079017.htm#2: Show them where they are and where they should be. I use this type of link to show them the general strength standards. www.criticalbench.com/sportstraining.htm#3: Ask them how much attention they are currently receiving. Now this may invite the "well if you would put his name/film/etc. out there, he would get more attention." But at least they can see where they stand in the eyes of those who recruit. www.ncsasports.org/how-do-you-get-recruited/athletic-recruiting/recruiting-level It's never easy trying to make a young person see something they don't want to see. But, all you can do is provide the information. They have to deal with reality...whenever it hits them. |
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Post by freezeoption on Jun 10, 2016 9:39:47 GMT -6
sometimes reality and dreams don't mix, in most cases you can't reach these people, instead of hiring a guy they should have used that money to go to camps, a poster I always wanted to make and put up was the stats on players in the different divisions, if a kid would come up to me and say he was going to go somewhere I would say look at the poster and see how you compare, that might take care of some of the crap you face
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 10, 2016 9:48:13 GMT -6
We had two of these guys last year. They paid for everything. Went to everything. Got told everything. And came back to our place...thinking that they were better than everybody. Including the coaches.
They decided to "transfer". Except they went about it the wrong way and ended up missing their senior seasons. I don't feel bad for them.
One of the "D1" guys is going to a JC. And I'm guessing he won't make it. The other...who knows and who cares.
We got lucky because they left. Not sure how it was going to be handled if they stayed. Nobody liked them. It was cancerous.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jun 10, 2016 10:09:19 GMT -6
If players spent as much energy in going to the weight room and buying into their own programs as they do trying to get attention from colleges, most would end up in a good situation.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jun 10, 2016 10:40:00 GMT -6
This is funny sometimes. We had a guy last year who got moved down to JV the previous year as a junior not because we wanted to get him playing time or anything like that, but because any varsity guy that blocked him put him on the ground and he was constantly rolling around by our other players ankles and knees. It wasn't a safety concern for him it was a safety concern for everybody else.
Fast forward a year and he's the exact same player as a senior, except now hes paying a recruiting guy. We didn't allow him to play scout D against our first OL after he rolled up the back of a couple of guys legs early in the year, he was every bit as bad as he was the year before. One day we over hear him telling some other guys that his recruiting guy told him he is "at LEAST a Division II player." What can you do with that but laugh?
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jun 10, 2016 10:49:44 GMT -6
I just talked to a coach that received an email from a player who is going on 30...count 'em, 30 college workouts/visits this summer.
He lives in either Mississippi or Louisiana, I can't remember. But he will be traveling to five different states.
I saw his hudl film. He's decent, but my first impression was that he was a D-II kid hoping to catch a break with a D-I school.
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Post by mattharris75 on Jun 10, 2016 11:02:32 GMT -6
I had a player who graduated in 2011 who, to this day, still tells people that the only reason he didn't have a scholarship offer from Alabama is because I wouldn't make him a highlight film. Perhaps it had something to do with him being a 5'6", 4.75 40, third string running back? In fact he tried and failed to walk on at bama, multiple times. Some kids/parents/people in general are just delusional and even being smacked in the face with reality isn't going to set them straight. It's always somebody else's fault... But good luck.  |
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jun 10, 2016 11:32:40 GMT -6
A few years back, I had a kid who received an offer from a MAC school. They were the first to offer him. He figured more schools would come for him.
The minute that coach left the room, I told him, you need to get up there, visit, and commit if you like it. I was trying to gently tell him that it was the best offer he was going to get. I also told him he could change his mind if something better came along (that's another conversation).
He waited and worked out at big schools and nothing ever came. He called them in the fall and they had filled their recruiting needs.
The image that always comes to mind is the scene in "All The Right Moves" where Tom Cruise's character Stefen Djordjevic played his hand wrong and had to call a school back that he had previously dissed.
My guy ended up at a D-II in the midwest.
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 10, 2016 11:40:48 GMT -6
That is the {censored} that pisses me off. Coaches, for the most part, shoot straight with the kid. I'm not trying to screw you over. I've been doing this 20+ years. I will tell you where I think you can go...at your current height/weight, etc. I'm not killing your dream...I'm being honest.
That pisses parents off sometimes. Quit being blinded by the love of your child.
The other thing I can't stand is that these guys go work out at different places with fancy names. And come back SLOWER than they were before? Again, getting told that what we do is wrong.
One of the key reasons I'm hanging up the whistle soon. Get to 9th grade. Go to the school in your attendance area. Play YOUR HEART OUT FOR THAT SCHOOL AND YOUR FRIENDS. Whatever else happens after you're done...is gravy on top.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jun 10, 2016 11:47:00 GMT -6
a poster I always wanted to make and put up was the stats on players in the different divisions, if a kid would come up to me and say he was going to go somewhere I would say look at the poster and see how you compare, that might take care of some of the crap you face I found something (that could be made into a poster) with all the divisions and height/weight/40/bench/squat expectations, all on one sheet. PM me your email if you want it, and I'll send it. |
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jun 10, 2016 11:53:59 GMT -6
That is the {censored} that pisses me off. Coaches, for the most part, shoot straight with the kid. I'm not trying to screw you over. I've been doing this 20+ years. I will tell you where I think you can go...at your current height/weight, etc. I'm not killing your dream...I'm being honest. That pisses parents off sometimes. Quit being blinded by the love of your child. The other thing I can't stand is that these guys go work out at different places with fancy names. And come back SLOWER than they were before? Again, getting told that what we do is wrong. One of the key reasons I'm hanging up the whistle soon. Get to 9th grade. Go to the school in your attendance area. Play YOUR HEART OUT FOR THAT SCHOOL AND YOUR FRIENDS. Whatever else happens after you're done...is gravy on top. You hit it right on the head...parents are blinded. Sometimes it's love, and sometimes it's ego. One of the worst things I ever saw (regarding this topic) is a kid who worked out at 10-12 different schools. Dad told me, 'don't worry coach, we're doing this on the weekend, he won't miss any weight room time.' And he didn't. Unfortunately, he had ultimately "over trained," for lack of a better phrase. When we started camp this kid looked like he had already played a season and a half, in two months over the summer. He had NO juice come August. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 11, 2016 20:21:01 GMT -6
I've got a guy, and he's a very good high school athlete especially considering our competition. But, he's just that. A high school athlete. He keeps telling people in the community and other players and teachers, that he's either going to UCLA, Ohio State, Oregon, Alabama or Florida State. He's hired a "professional recruitment specialist" because he's told us that we aren't smart enough to get him signed and that we're holding him back. This recruiter keeps telling people that he's been meeting with all sorts of national coaches, and that he had dinner with Jimbo, and he was raving about this player. He was on a call with the UCLA staff, and he's at the top of their prospect list. Oregon considers him a must-get kind of guy. All sorts of stuff like that. Keeps telling people that these coaches were at games and that they were so impressed with him. You all can probably guess how much of that is true. Here's the reality: He's slower than any skill guy any of those schools will sign, ever. He's about 9 inches too small and about 85lbs too light. He's soft and has average hands. But we play enough teams with minimal athletes, that he looks like Randy Moss at times. He's going into his senior year, and is not a major college prospect, period. None of those schools will ever sign him or even consider him, period. He might MIGHT play at an average NAIA or D-III school. Maybe. How do you handle this? I have no idea how to shatter a kids unrealistic dreams, but he's going to miss out on actual colleges he can play for, because he won't return any of their questions and stuff. He's a pretty good kid just trying any way to get out of the ghetto and raise him family up. I am shocked...SHOCKED I say that anyone with your previously stated attitude and situation ( From February 2016) : has any trouble at all simply relating with this kid and solving this problem with their better functioning brains.... |
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Post by benr on Jun 11, 2016 20:55:49 GMT -6
My brother in law attended a one day camp at the University of Colorado this afternoon. There were quite a few kids from a handful of states, some as far away as California and Texas. I spent most of the 3 hour practice eves dropping on the conversations of the parents on the sidelines and there are some completely delusional. Some of these parents had players who were clearly only decent high school players talking about how they can't wait for their kids to start getting offers after attending camps and I overheard one dad say he was the top salesman at his company and he'd definitely be getting his sub 6 foot 4.80 40 running pass dropping wide receiver son a D1 scholarship. Unreal stuff. These parents have lost their minds.
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Post by fantom on Jun 11, 2016 23:26:04 GMT -6
I think that a lot of times the idea of "letting him down easily" does more harm than good. With some guys it becomes like "Dumb and Dumber", "So I have a chance?".
I had a kid ask me if I thought that he had a chance at a D.1 schollie and I answered simply, "No. You're too short". He reacted by saying that that's what he thought. We then talked about the fact that schools recruit with stopwatches and tape measures but that's just how it is. Didn't get negative or laugh at his ideas but also told the truth. I've had similar conversations a number of times and the kids always get the idea even though they hope to hear something else.
I think that deep down the kids know.
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Post by freezeoption on Jun 12, 2016 7:47:45 GMT -6
I've got a guy, and he's a very good high school athlete especially considering our competition. But, he's just that. A high school athlete. He keeps telling people in the community and other players and teachers, that he's either going to UCLA, Ohio State, Oregon, Alabama or Florida State. He's hired a "professional recruitment specialist" because he's told us that we aren't smart enough to get him signed and that we're holding him back. This recruiter keeps telling people that he's been meeting with all sorts of national coaches, and that he had dinner with Jimbo, and he was raving about this player. He was on a call with the UCLA staff, and he's at the top of their prospect list. Oregon considers him a must-get kind of guy. All sorts of stuff like that. Keeps telling people that these coaches were at games and that they were so impressed with him. You all can probably guess how much of that is true. Here's the reality: He's slower than any skill guy any of those schools will sign, ever. He's about 9 inches too small and about 85lbs too light. He's soft and has average hands. But we play enough teams with minimal athletes, that he looks like Randy Moss at times. He's going into his senior year, and is not a major college prospect, period. None of those schools will ever sign him or even consider him, period. He might MIGHT play at an average NAIA or D-III school. Maybe. How do you handle this? I have no idea how to shatter a kids unrealistic dreams, but he's going to miss out on actual colleges he can play for, because he won't return any of their questions and stuff. He's a pretty good kid just trying any way to get out of the ghetto and raise him family up. I am shocked...SHOCKED I say that anyone with your previously stated attitude and situation ( From February 2016) : has any trouble at all simply relating with this kid and solving this problem with their better functioning brains.... since I'm 48 I better get my ash to the old persons home, ship, I've heard some ship now, kids will respond for a good coach no matter what age, ignorance is at any age, as we can see with your comment, here is a good one, as I stated last year, a parent told me their kid got a scholarship at a college, naia, the coach never talked to me, I know the naia and d3 thing, they will give you some money but bring in a ton of guys, plus their tuition is high, the kid played for us, but he was not very good but he was better than what we had, between being hurt or in trouble with the law idk if he even practiced for them, now he is transferring to another naia school and is going to throw for them, getting a scholarship, again no one calls me |
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Post by olcoach53 on Jun 12, 2016 8:47:11 GMT -6
Unfortunately we have a current coach on staff who professes himself to be a "D1" producer and trainer. He basically is abusing his privilege as a coach and getting kids to pay for training sessions with him. He claims that he got a kid who never played high school football a D1 scholarship, he claims that he will get any kid a D1 scholarship and he is filling our kids heads with the notion that they can go D1 despite never having started a game and also not being physically capable of even playing D3 ball. Not really sure how to handle it
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 12, 2016 9:25:11 GMT -6
Now that I have had my fun, and tried to help hunhdisciple out by pointing out just how ridiculous his statement was back in February (since this seems like exactly a situation that 'relating better' should alleviate) --I will try and help out a little more with opinions on this situation. From reading the original post, there are a few issues. Having a player misjudge his talent is nearly universal. Having a player thinking he is going D1 is pretty common in places that don't regularly get recruited. Having a player who says BEFORE the fact that the coaching staff is "not smart enough to get him recruited and is holding him back" = potential problem for the program. Having a poor kid (assumption based on the word "ghetto" used) spend money on a recruiting specialist who according what you have typed is lying to the kid... = potential problem for the program AND the kid. My addled old brain thinks that you bringing in the kid and his family and discussing things with him. I would contact the recruiting area coach for some of those big schools listed and let him know what is happening. It is a bit of pain, but if presented as some snake oil salesman trying to steal from your kid, they might be more willing to help. You can than bring the information from that coach (or coaches) "Your boy isn't on our radar at all coach, that recruiting specialist is lying" to the meeting and try to help the kid and the family see the light. This will benefit him, future athletes from word of mouth, and it will also help you guys. Based on what you have typed, when your kid doesn't go to Eugene,or Tallahasse, or Los Angelos, the recruiter will simply say it is because YOU guys didn't use him right, didn't feature him, didn't call the right plays, didn't train him properly, didn't develop him, didn't do enough to get him recruited etc. |
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Post by 19delta on Jun 12, 2016 10:06:21 GMT -6
Now that I have had my fun, and tried to help hunhdisciple out by pointing out just how ridiculous his statement was back in February (since this seems like exactly a situation that 'relating better' should alleviate) --I will try and help out a little more with opinions on this situation. From reading the original post, there are a few issues. Having a player misjudge his talent is nearly universal. Having a player thinking he is going D1 is pretty common in places that don't regularly get recruited. Having a player who says BEFORE the fact that the coaching staff is "not smart enough to get him recruited and is holding him back" = potential problem for the program. Having a poor kid (assumption based on the word "ghetto" used) spend money on a recruiting specialist who according what you have typed is lying to the kid... = potential problem for the program AND the kid. My addled old brain thinks that you bringing in the kid and his family and discussing things with him. I would contact the recruiting area coach for some of those big schools listed and let him know what is happening. It is a bit of pain, but if presented as some snake oil salesman trying to steal from your kid, they might be more willing to help. You can than bring the information from that coach (or coaches) "Your boy isn't on our radar at all coach, that recruiting specialist is lying" to the meeting and try to help the kid and the family see the light. This will benefit him, future athletes from word of mouth, and it will also help you guys. Based on what you have typed, when your kid doesn't go to Eugene,or Tallahasse, or Los Angelos, the recruiter will simply say it is because YOU guys didn't use him right, didn't feature him, didn't call the right plays, didn't train him properly, didn't develop him, didn't do enough to get him recruited etc. This was my thinking. Can't the HFC simply call those schools and ask if they are interested in the kid? Will they share that information? |
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Post by the1mitch on Jun 12, 2016 10:47:38 GMT -6
"Unfortunately we have a current coach on staff who professes himself to be a "D1" producer and trainer. He basically is abusing his privilege as a coach and getting kids to pay for training sessions with him. He claims that he got a kid who never played high school football a D1 scholarship, he claims that he will get any kid a D1 scholarship and he is filling our kids heads with the notion that they can go D1 despite never having started a game and also not being physically capable of even playing D3 ball. Not really sure how to handle it"
In Washington this may be a violation of ethics rules. If he were on my staff and was charging $ for running workouts at a local gym, he would soon be working at that gym full time and not on our practice field. First for the ethics piece, second he'd be gone for being disloyal, and third for lying to ballplayers. If he's got the magic touch why isn't he sharing his brilliance with all your kids?
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