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Post by coachfowler on Apr 28, 2016 9:17:28 GMT -6
komonews.s3.amazonaws.com/bellevue_hs_school.pdfWhile not the only school that is bending/breaking the rules in our state they were the most successful and that was their downfall. Check out pages 13-15 that talks about the money that was raised I don't think our whole league has raised that amount of money in the last 10 years.
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Post by rosey65 on Apr 28, 2016 9:51:03 GMT -6
The FL 5A championship game was voided a few years ago, both teams were caught red-handed. The investigatioms went on all season, long before the playoffs started. It was known the game wouldnt count even before it was played. I cant speak to Miami Central (cant imagine much happened, it was Cook/Yearby's soph year, they won the next 2 years) but nothing happened to Armwood. Sure, they had to forfeit games and pay a fine, but pretty much just a really hard slap on the wrist. www.tampabay.com/sports/footballpreps/armwood-high-football-team-must-forfeit-state-title-pay-more-than-12000/1236150
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Post by shocktroop34 on Apr 28, 2016 10:04:38 GMT -6
One of the most interesting things I've read on here in a long time.
In 2013 alone, their boosters raised nearly half a million dollars.
Questionable living areas for players. Suspect grades or classes taken. A head coach allegedly paying the rent for a player. Tuition stipends. Coaching stipends up to 80k a year.
This story has everything. Bellevue needs their own ESPN 30 for 30. It seems as if their football culture grew beyond what they could control.
It just makes you wonder, how many other programs, that are considered to be "elite," are operating with the same impunity?
When you start gaining attention/recruiting/poaching high-caliber athletes from other schools, something like this is bound to happen.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Apr 28, 2016 10:15:44 GMT -6
The HC admitted to being paid between 50-80k for a one week youth football camp. Incredible. Roughly, the average yearly salary of many teachers/coaches. coachfowler What status is this situation in, currently?
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Post by coachfowler on Apr 28, 2016 10:49:31 GMT -6
The report was just released so nothing has been done yet. As for the 50k he received the state had known about that as it had raised a stink about the amount so the WIAA had passed specific rules about that, something about how the school board had to vote on large amounts of money being paid liker that.
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bdm
Sophomore Member
Posts: 104
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Post by bdm on Apr 28, 2016 11:37:13 GMT -6
The HC admitted to being paid between 50-80k for a one week youth football camp. Incredible. Roughly, the average yearly salary of many teachers/coaches. coachfowler What status is this situation in, currently? I wish I made this much money in a years time. In NC even with two coaching stipends one for football and one for track I am no where in the general vicinity of 50-80K a year. To answer the question posed in good ole NC there would probably be a house cleaning, but since it is a private school and in NC public and private schools fall under different sets of rules the state may let the local LEA handle it since technically the state runs the public schools. More than likely everyone loses their job.
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Post by mnike23 on Apr 28, 2016 11:42:28 GMT -6
WOW!!!!!!! but not 100% suprised. more suprised more havent been found out.
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Post by spartandefense on Apr 28, 2016 11:50:41 GMT -6
I am not sure why this is a surprise. We are talking about a state (washington) that does not produce a ton of D1 talent overall (24 D1 players / yr). What is the probability that the town of Bellvue with a public school enrollment of 1,500 has that many division football players cycling thru it.
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Post by coachbdud on Apr 28, 2016 11:52:26 GMT -6
Our state only puts teams on probation
When they get busted again, they go on double probation
After that, double secret super probation
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Post by PSS on Apr 28, 2016 12:21:22 GMT -6
In Texas schools have had to forfeit games for playing ineligible players. Just recently a school had to forfeit 20 baseball games for that. Also, if I'm not mistaken state championships have been taken away.
Our governing agency, UIL, doesn't mess around with those kinds of things. They handle them fast and usually heavy handed.
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Post by coachfowler on Apr 28, 2016 14:19:56 GMT -6
70 During the course of our investigation we have heard from several witnesses that Coach Goncharoff received payments far in excess of those reported by the Booster Club, ranging in amounts from $100,000 to over $300,000.
This was in the foot notes.
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Post by gibbs72 on Apr 28, 2016 14:53:55 GMT -6
Our state only puts teams on probation When they get busted again, they go on double probation After that, double secret super probation Put Neidermeyer on it. . . .
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Post by wingtol on Apr 28, 2016 15:20:20 GMT -6
"Lack of instutional control" is the term I believe that applies here.
This is one reason I don't get into the hero worship of coaches/ big time HS programs. These guys were revered in the wing-t community for years and apparently were cheating their a$$es off the whole time.
To win HS football games.
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Post by blb on Apr 28, 2016 15:28:14 GMT -6
"Lack of instutional control" is the term I believe that applies here. This is one reason I don't get into the hero worship of coaches/ big time HS programs. These guys were revered in the wing-t community for years and apparently were cheating their a$$es off the whole time. To win HS football games.
If true - talk about "selling your soul."
And not just the head coach.
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Post by coachfowler on Apr 28, 2016 15:40:23 GMT -6
"Lack of instutional control" is the term I believe that applies here. This is one reason I don't get into the hero worship of coaches/ big time HS programs. These guys were revered in the wing-t community for years and apparently were cheating their a$$es off the whole time. To win HS football games. It ain't X's and O's its Jimmy and Joe's
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Post by wingtol on Apr 28, 2016 15:54:50 GMT -6
"Lack of instutional control" is the term I believe that applies here. This is one reason I don't get into the hero worship of coaches/ big time HS programs. These guys were revered in the wing-t community for years and apparently were cheating their a$$es off the whole time. To win HS football games. It ain't X's and O's its Jimmy and Joe's Apparently a lot of Jackson's and Franklin's help as well Just saw this on their boosters home page: o The report is selective in its language and deliberately distorts the WIAA rule regarding coaches’ payments. The rule states: “Coaching stipends and all gifts to a coach exceeding a total of $500 in a season must be approved by the school’s board of directors.” o The report omits this important “in a season” distinction covered by WIAA Rule 23.1.1, which allows payments to be made to coaches outside of the season, and for duties other than high school coaching. o Indeed, the scope of Coach Goncharoff’s additional responsibilities fall far outside the football season, and encompass a wide range of youth programs, camps, player mentorship and other laudable activities So basically yes we paid the coaches 100's of thousands of dollars with out reporting it because they were paid in the off-season. LOL
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Post by bignose on Apr 28, 2016 16:37:35 GMT -6
Bellevue is a public school, but the WIAA, the supervisory agency, is from what I can tell, a private organization. I wonder who they are answerable too? There was certainly a large amount of money raised by the booster club……..who has control over this? The local School District? The County Government? The State Board of Education? Where is the accountability?
In this State, Maryland, the management of public school athletics comes under the purview of a State run organization that is answerable to the Department of Education and ultimately, the State Government. We also have a local County Board of Education Athletic Department that we are answerable to.
Judging from the level of obfuscation and lack of cooperation from the Superintendent on down, the entire group would be canned if something that egregious happened here. This would be up to and including the loss of their teaching or administration credentials.
Locally, we had a "scandal" here several years ago, where a Coach was accused of changing a student's grade. He was terminated. However, the Coach did not have access to the records, only the guidance counselor and Principal did……….and the coach had a law degree. The coach was reinstated as a teacher, and eventually transferred to another school as a Head Coach. The Principal was demoted, and more or less encouraged to retire a couple of years later.
We have had the occasional false residence listed and have to be very diligent in our record keeping, providing all sorts of documentation, bills, proof of residence, etc. to prevent this from happening again. At the very least, the teams have to forfeit games.
Student recruiting and transfers for various sports became so endemic in the suburbs around the Washington D.C. area, that several coaches were involuntarily transferred, and in D.C.it got so bad that kids would go to one school to play football, transfer to another for basketball, and yet a third to run track. The Washington School System finally had to implement a one year "no play" rule for these types of transfers.
The Private schools have their own set of regulations. But apparently there is some sneaky goings on between some of the teams and leagues.
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Post by coachfowler on May 4, 2016 10:37:43 GMT -6
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Post by KYCoach2331 on May 4, 2016 12:43:05 GMT -6
A playoff ban and vacating/forfeiting of wins(including a state title runner up). Not the same exact scenario, but a local school here in Kentucky had this punishment a year or two ago for money issues and playing an illegal player.
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Post by coachcb on May 4, 2016 13:48:04 GMT -6
Around here, anything in that report that wasn't a CLEAR violation of state by-laws or were criminal acts would have been redacted or not made public, at all. Anything that is in a grey area like the coaches' complicity in the athletes' false addresses or the push to take classes at the online academy would have been held against the coaches but not by the state governing board. The school administration would have taken the hit over those because it's their job to over-see those issues. I am extremely disappointed in that staff as I have gotten a ton of information from them and I absolutely believe they were in the wrong. However, around here, they'd be suing state over any information that went public that didn't show that they had broken state laws. From my experience as a union president, I can tell you that you're dealing with an ugly situation when you talk about a "code of ethics" because it can be subjective. But, again, those guys deserve what they're getting..
The rest of it wouldn't have been a death knell for the program but the school district would have canned the administration, the coaches and the booster club stripped. Anything involving money would have been picked apart until they could prove criminal charges were warranted and everyone that was involved would be prosecuted heavily. But, they wouldn't punish the kids by stripping state-titles and what not which I do agree with. The adults messed up, not the kids.
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Post by shocktroop34 on May 4, 2016 14:05:30 GMT -6
I agree. It is interesting. But I also get the sense he is disillusioned. If if you get a chance, post part two. This is more interesting than OJ vs. The people.
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Post by younggun10 on May 4, 2016 21:04:19 GMT -6
This is almost biblical, David and Goliath in many ways. Let's be honest, as most of us are high school or college coaches on here. Things happen that are sometimes out of the HC's control or at other times things that the HC would never know about. Is it surprising that young football players would want to play for a championship program? Is it crazy to think some might even move into the school district to play for the exposure? Is it possible that others would go as far as falsifying an address to gain eligibility?
Everyone, in large part, on this board is smart with common sense. Kids want to be successful and they want to win. They will move or lie to do it, at times. This is a district issue. Not many head coaches keep tabs on the address of little Jimmy.
If a booster came to you with an added bonus after the season to keep you from looking around, would you maybe consider taking that money? Most would. You say $60k makes it different, but it doesn't. Booster money is booster money. A booster club headed by a former Fortune 100 CFO is capable of throwing some cash around. In most communities this would be a significantly less, but we also don't have the headquarters of Microsoft right around the corner.
People envy success. They envy it so much they want to bring it down or take it away. Look at John Wooden, who had accusations thought the latter part of his career. Look at Pete Carroll. Look at Bill Belichik. Several of the all time greats were brought down or attempted to be brought down. Nowadays with increased media exposure it becomes easier to bring down a coach and/or team.
Everything I have heard from that area has been glaringly positive. This forum is a bunch of football coaches- let's not jump on the bandwagon and try to bring down a man who loves working with kids, helping them grow, and building them into a functioning team.
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Post by shocktroop34 on May 5, 2016 6:28:58 GMT -6
This forum is a bunch of football coaches- let's not jump on the bandwagon and try to bring down a man who loves working with kids, helping them grow, and building them into a functioning team. I don't see any post (in this thread-at least) where anyone is trying to bring this coach down. More than anything, people have answered the OP stating how their school or community would handle this situation. I see coaches stating objective opinions and thoughts. As natural as it is to react to such egregious accusations, I see no overt comments intended to discredit this coach.
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Post by coachfowler on May 5, 2016 8:47:32 GMT -6
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red
Freshmen Member
Posts: 71
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Post by red on May 5, 2016 11:43:24 GMT -6
So is this guy a teacher paid by the district, or is he seasonal and only gets the HC stipend? So if he gets 60K a year from booster, plus 7K stipend he is making 67K a year to coach at a Powerhouse? He needs to move to Texas or Alabama and get some real $$. There probably are illegal things going on, but the mistake is they were winning.
And 42 transfers in 7 years,, so 6 players each year? Around here the inner city and suburbs players change schools each year, by providing a different address. I would love to see what the stats are on big school state champs, how many starters were in their district in the 8th grade?
Maybe this guy is crooked but man there are alot of non football type people that would have to be purposely breaking alot of rules to win football games. Most administrators will sell their soul to keep their job, cant imagine they would just let all this pass? In the report (i skimmed it and maybe missed it) It didnt seem like there were any sworn statements, cashed checks, receipts, audio recordings, former players, other schools claiming recruiting? So the rules broken are ...paying coaches for winning, keeping kids eligible not by fixing grades but sending them to more classes, obstructing the investigation by not saying what they wanted to hear, and not investigating addresses.
My area this has happened and the state suspended the coach for a year and the admin let him take the fall for not monitoring players address, even though it was the AD's job. But they made a mistake of winning to much.
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Post by PSS on May 5, 2016 13:08:24 GMT -6
So is this guy a teacher paid by the district, or is he seasonal and only gets the HC stipend? So if he gets 60K a year from booster, plus 7K stipend he is making 67K a year to coach at a Powerhouse? He needs to move to Texas or Alabama and get some real $$. There probably are illegal things going on, but the mistake is they were winning. And 42 transfers in 7 years,, so 6 players each year? Around here the inner city and suburbs players change schools each year, by providing a different address. I would love to see what the stats are on big school state champs, how many starters were in their district in the 8th grade? Maybe this guy is crooked but man there are alot of non football type people that would have to be purposely breaking alot of rules to win football games. Most administrators will sell their soul to keep their job, cant imagine they would just let all this pass? In the report (i skimmed it and maybe missed it) It didnt seem like there were any sworn statements, cashed checks, receipts, audio recordings, former players, other schools claiming recruiting? So the rules broken are ...paying coaches for winning, keeping kids eligible not by fixing grades but sending them to more classes, obstructing the investigation by not saying what they wanted to hear, and not investigating addresses. My area this has happened and the state suspended the coach for a year and the admin let him take the fall for not monitoring players address, even though it was the AD's job. But they made a mistake of winning to much. Red, I've coached in Texas for over 20 years in several different schools. Not once was it the AD's job to check addresses. When I was at an inner city school we had to do home visits to verify addresses and that the kid actually lived where he said he did. The HC's of multi-high school school districts are the campus coordinator. They handle the athletic paperwork for that campus. As for smaller districts the HC is the athletic director in 99.9% of the schools. If you recall just in the last two weeks Katy HS was forced to forfeit 20 bsb games and was kicked out of the playoffs because two of their players were paid last Summer to coach / work camps. Violated the amateur rule. Another school was kicked out of the playoffs this week because they played an ineligible player. Unethical coaches will try to push the limits. Others ignore or don't know the rules.
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red
Freshmen Member
Posts: 71
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Post by red on May 5, 2016 16:44:35 GMT -6
That's in Texas where HC is an admin and makes a significant amount more money than in most places, in most states the HC is not the AD or AC. I think in most places I've been around the HC is actually a teacher. Texas is not the norm in high school football. My point is would that document hold up in court? And most state associations can act on their own while dealing with public school funds with no legislative oversight. Again to answer the OP question is in my area the HC got suspended while the AD didn't.
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Post by coachfowler on May 5, 2016 19:58:27 GMT -6
Red the coach is not a teacher. PSS in Wa its the AD job to clear the kids not the coach
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Post by PSS on May 5, 2016 20:37:09 GMT -6
Read the last sentence of my last post. Here it is: Unethical coaches will try to push the limits. Others ignore or don't know the rules.
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Post by coachklee on May 5, 2016 22:10:39 GMT -6
So is this guy a teacher paid by the district, or is he seasonal and only gets the HC stipend? So if he gets 60K a year from booster, plus 7K stipend he is making 67K a year to coach at a Powerhouse? He needs to move to Texas or Alabama and get some real $$. There probably are illegal things going on, but the mistake is they were winning. And 42 transfers in 7 years,, so 6 players each year? Around here the inner city and suburbs players change schools each year, by providing a different address. I would love to see what the stats are on big school state champs, how many starters were in their district in the 8th grade? Maybe this guy is crooked but man there are alot of non football type people that would have to be purposely breaking alot of rules to win football games. Most administrators will sell their soul to keep their job, cant imagine they would just let all this pass? In the report (i skimmed it and maybe missed it) It didnt seem like there were any sworn statements, cashed checks, receipts, audio recordings, former players, other schools claiming recruiting? So the rules broken are ...paying coaches for winning, keeping kids eligible not by fixing grades but sending them to more classes, obstructing the investigation by not saying what they wanted to hear, and not investigating addresses. My area this has happened and the state suspended the coach for a year and the admin let him take the fall for not monitoring players address, even though it was the AD's job. But they made a mistake of winning to much. This is what the evidence is pointing towards as I see it. Transfers can legitimately happen & the article couldn't specifically link coaching staff to the recruitment of players. I also don't know of any rule limiting coaching pay, especially via working camps. I think this has everything to do with the ridiculously successful & as a result, the coach & program has become a target. Of course, I'm almost 2,000 miles away & could be wrong.
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