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Post by wingtol on Feb 1, 2008 16:47:35 GMT -6
Is it just me or is anyone else tired of hear all the sayings people spout off when talking football? Can't anyone just say it in plain english anymore? Do we really need all kinds of sayings to be good coaches and describe how a play works? Just something that has gotten under my skin recently sorry.
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Post by vassdiddy on Feb 1, 2008 19:33:55 GMT -6
AMEN! I went to a clinic in Burlingame with some guys who never even addressed the topic that they were supposed to touch on. It was ridiculous! No one cares about the alumni at your school for 40 years ago. I want to know about the topic you were supposed to speak on!
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Post by pantherpride91 on Feb 1, 2008 22:49:10 GMT -6
I agree 100%...half the battle of being a young coach looking to learn is trying to figure out the different verbage that every coach has....when you have 5 or 6 names for the same play there is a problem....
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Post by gregspahn on Feb 1, 2008 23:00:29 GMT -6
half the battle of being a young coach looking to learn is trying to figure out the different verbage that every coach has Isn't this part of the learning process? Shouldn't we try to see the commonality in schemes and terminology and then use those threads to advance our understanding of the game? Isn't it OK that there is more than one way to "skin a cat"? The point of clinics is to learn and advance yourself, correct?
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ramsoc
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by ramsoc on Feb 2, 2008 0:31:05 GMT -6
AMEN! I went to a clinic in Burlingame with some guys who never even addressed the topic that they were supposed to touch on. It was ridiculous! No one cares about the alumni at your school for 40 years ago. I want to know about the topic you were supposed to speak on! Nothing gives me the red ass more than listen to some guy spend 20-25 minutes telling us about himself, his program, his mentors, what he had for breakfast and then jam through his hour presentation in the last 35-40 minutes. 5 minutes cool and get on with it.
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Post by phantom on Feb 2, 2008 7:28:43 GMT -6
Is it just me or is anyone else tired of hear all the sayings people spout off when talking football? Can't anyone just say it in plain english anymore? Do we really need all kinds of sayings to be good coaches and describe how a play works? Just something that has gotten under my skin recently sorry. I'm not really sure what you're complaining about here.
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Post by wingtol on Feb 2, 2008 8:38:28 GMT -6
Guys who use all the catch words and buzz phrases that are the "cool" things to say now. I have seen people talking about "how expensive a play is" or "what will it cost me" "does this play cost to much" "doesnt cost me anything to run it" why not just say how much time am I looking at. I just think some people try and over complicate things with all kinds of cool words and phrases to explain stuff. Just tell me what you mean! LOL Is it just me or is anyone else tired of hear all the sayings people spout off when talking football? Can't anyone just say it in plain english anymore? Do we really need all kinds of sayings to be good coaches and describe how a play works? Just something that has gotten under my skin recently sorry. I'm not really sure what you're complaining about here.
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Post by brophy on Feb 2, 2008 9:01:14 GMT -6
I agree with wingtol.
I know we all have our ways of communicating, but some folks go out of their way to make this harder than it needs to be. It is double-talk
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Post by wildcat on Feb 2, 2008 10:25:16 GMT -6
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 164
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Post by tedseay on Feb 2, 2008 10:37:50 GMT -6
Guys who use all the catch words and buzz phrases that are the "cool" things to say now. I have seen people talking about "how expensive a play is" or "what will it cost me" "does this play cost to much" "doesn't cost me anything to run it" why not just say how much time am I looking at. I just think some people try and over complicate things with all kinds of cool words and phrases to explain stuff. Just tell me what you mean! LOL Coach: I agree with your premise, but not necessarily with the example you used. I don't think it's possible to overestimate the importance of time in football coaching. Equating time with cost works just fine for me; it's a brief, understandable shorthand.
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Post by lochness on Feb 2, 2008 11:48:05 GMT -6
Form another point of view, I get more irritated about it on the board than I do in clinics.
I can't stand when somebody is like, "Hi guys, I need some drills for my dawgs and stingers." I mean, what the hell is that?? What in the name of god are these positions you are talking about? I know it makes us all feel good to use our terminology and sound creative, but wtf? Is it really that hard to say "outside LB" or something like that?
It's the same with scheme names. I get irritated when someone is like "Can anyone tell me how to better run Apocalypse Coverage?" Then you respond with "Coach, what in all of creation is that?" and they say something helpful like "Well, it's a version of West Virginia's Nuclear Winter coverage, except with a Spur playing in the OLB position."
Honestly, how the hell are most of us supposed to know what cute little names your favorite college coach uses for cover 2?
This is, of course, just an example of something that might frustrate me. But honestly, just say what you mean and stop using all of these wonderfully creative and smart-sounding terms. I've never seen a TV announcer saying "Tyrone Jackson is starting today at the BUTCHER position." I mean, just, arrrgghhh....whatever.
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Post by cjamerson on Feb 2, 2008 12:13:44 GMT -6
What irritates me is when I'm at a clinic and the presenter says:
"We don't have any studs on our team" or
"You don't need exceptional athletes to run these schemes"
Then I look up at his cut-ups and he has an oline that rivals those of a D-II school and a RB that burns a trail like the Delorean from Back to the Future.
Just admit you have some great players and that's why your scheme works!
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Post by davecisar on Feb 2, 2008 13:00:33 GMT -6
What irritates me is when I'm at a clinic and the presenter says: "We don't have any studs on our team" or "You don't need exceptional athletes to run these schemes" Then I look up at his cut-ups and he has an oline that rivals those of a D-II school and a RB that burns a trail like the Delorean from Back to the Future. Just admit you have some great players and that's why your scheme works! Off topic a bit, but I rode with the DC from Jenks Oklahoma ( Perennial Top 10 USA Today etc) last weekend at a clinic and he said it was a down year for them, only 3-4 DI kids. He said one year they had 15 kids on the team that ended up going DI. How much of a players development can be attributed to coaching ? Teams in Texas, Oklahoma that have football classes, spring football and year round development you would think would put their kids ahead of kids in many states including mine where they have none of that. Amazing so many DI kids could come out of one public school. And bordering Jenks is UNion, the Union and Jenks kids are buddies, grow up playing with and against each other, same neighborhood. You guessed it, Union is usually nationally ranked as well. Thought provoking question. He did admit his kids probably got more looks because they won so much, so it may be skewed just a bit. But both teams seem to be winning every year, long term etc.
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Post by wingtol on Feb 2, 2008 13:11:52 GMT -6
Form another point of view, I get more irritated about it on the board than I do in clinics. I can't stand when somebody is like, "Hi guys, I need some drills for my dawgs and stingers." I mean, what the hell is that?? What in the name of god are these positions you are talking about? I know it makes us all feel good to use our terminology and sound creative, but wtf? Is it really that hard to say "outside LB" or something like that? It's the same with scheme names. I get irritated when someone is like "Can anyone tell me how to better run Apocalypse Coverage?" Then you respond with "Coach, what in all of creation is that?" and they say something helpful like "Well, it's a version of West Virginia's Nuclear Winter coverage, except with a Spur playing in the OLB position." Honestly, how the hell are most of us supposed to know what cute little names your favorite college coach uses for cover 2? This is, of course, just an example of something that might frustrate me. But honestly, just say what you mean and stop using all of these wonderfully creative and smart-sounding terms. I've never seen a TV announcer saying "Tyrone Jackson is starting today at the BUTCHER position." I mean, just, arrrgghhh....whatever. Thats classic! Basically my whole point in a nut shell.....just say what you mean!!!! I have noticed though it seems to be only on defense that you see all those names. I think next year I am going to call our qb the mislle launcher position our RG the steamroller the LG the snow plow. If your busy say your busy not my plate is full right now, or I have a lot on my plate. How about I am too busy for that.
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Post by phantom on Feb 2, 2008 13:20:25 GMT -6
What irritates me is when I'm at a clinic and the presenter says: "We don't have any studs on our team" or "You don't need exceptional athletes to run these schemes" Then I look up at his cut-ups and he has an oline that rivals those of a D-II school and a RB that burns a trail like the Delorean from Back to the Future. Just admit you have some great players and that's why your scheme works! Off topic a bit, but I rode with the DC from Jenks Oklahoma ( Perennial Top 10 USA Today etc) last weekend at a clinic and he said it was a down year for them, only 3-4 DI kids. He said one year they had 15 kids on the team that ended up going DI. How much of a players development can be attributed to coaching ? Teams in Texas, Oklahoma that have football classes, spring football and year round development you would think would put their kids ahead of kids in many states including mine where they have none of that. Amazing so many DI kids could come out of one public school. And bordering Jenks is UNion, the Union and Jenks kids are buddies, grow up playing with and against each other, same neighborhood. You guessed it, Union is usually nationally ranked as well. Thought provoking question. He did admit his kids probably got more looks because they won so much, so it may be skewed just a bit. But both teams seem to be winning every year, long term etc. Dave, this is a worthwhile question but you're right, it is off of this topic. Go ahead and start another thread with it.
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Post by phantom on Feb 2, 2008 13:34:55 GMT -6
Form another point of view, I get more irritated about it on the board than I do in clinics. I can't stand when somebody is like, "Hi guys, I need some drills for my dawgs and stingers." I mean, what the hell is that?? What in the name of god are these positions you are talking about? I know it makes us all feel good to use our terminology and sound creative, but wtf? Is it really that hard to say "outside LB" or something like that? It's the same with scheme names. I get irritated when someone is like "Can anyone tell me how to better run Apocalypse Coverage?" Then you respond with "Coach, what in all of creation is that?" and they say something helpful like "Well, it's a version of West Virginia's Nuclear Winter coverage, except with a Spur playing in the OLB position." Honestly, how the hell are most of us supposed to know what cute little names your favorite college coach uses for cover 2? This is, of course, just an example of something that might frustrate me. But honestly, just say what you mean and stop using all of these wonderfully creative and smart-sounding terms. I've never seen a TV announcer saying "Tyrone Jackson is starting today at the BUTCHER position." I mean, just, arrrgghhh....whatever. That's the one that really does annoy me. The buzz words thing doesn't because, as Ted said, a lot of times it's a shorthand way of saying something. "Coaches how do your Gargoyles play the counter?", though? Good grief. When I see that I do try to remind myself that this is probably a young guy who's in his first job and doesn't know any better. If they have Gargoyles he thinks that everybody has Gargoyles.
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Post by coachcalande on Feb 2, 2008 18:11:38 GMT -6
You dont?
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ramsoc
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by ramsoc on Feb 2, 2008 19:09:09 GMT -6
No Gargoyles here, but what techniques do your Minotaurs and Mermaids play?
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 2, 2008 19:29:45 GMT -6
My complaints about the board are simply when coaches assume there is a commonality among terms...be it positions (stinger, buzzers, dogs, spurs, minotaurs, mermaids, or dipsquats) or coverages. Countless times you see people asking about cover (insert #)...which invariably means 20 different things to 20 different coaches....
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Post by coachcalande on Feb 2, 2008 19:44:26 GMT -6
Raptors in 9techs in cover sky but play 80 techs in sky coverge minus spy
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Post by khalfie on Feb 2, 2008 19:52:18 GMT -6
Hill Larry Us...
And by that, I mean...
Hilarious!
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Post by cmow5 on Feb 2, 2008 20:04:35 GMT -6
I am so glad I am not the only one that feels this way. At least same of you might be able to decipher what they are talking about. Try being a new guy and think this kind of talk is universal.
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Post by pantherpride91 on Feb 2, 2008 20:10:08 GMT -6
half the battle of being a young coach looking to learn is trying to figure out the different verbage that every coach has Isn't this part of the learning process? Shouldn't we try to see the commonality in schemes and terminology and then use those threads to advance our understanding of the game? Isn't it OK that there is more than one way to "skin a cat"? The point of clinics is to learn and advance yourself, correct? I agree 100% that the point of a clinic is to learn, but if you spend half the time trying to figure out a coach's "language" you do not get the full experience... I understand that there is more than one way to skin a cat and that is not the problem I have. It is when you say well instead of skinning the cat we are scalping a cat or dehairing a cat. Same concept but every coach has their own way of saying it. I was talking to an old coach who told me a story about spending 45 minutes with a young guy going over a concept only to realize in the end the old guy runs the exact same thing, just calls it something different.... How much of difference is there between blast, lead, and power or jet and fly sweep. Do they really need to be called different things? I am not saying one name is better than the other, but lets pick one and go with it... Sometimes I get the feeling coaches want to sound important or maybe sell some videos because they come with a "new idea" which is just a play off the old ideas but called something else
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Post by coachorr on Feb 2, 2008 20:23:42 GMT -6
Cjamerson. I was at a clinic about three years ago and the HC from the defending state championship team was breaking down his Shot Gun Spread package. Great guy Great coach and I have all the respect for him in the world, but he comes from a school in the Boise suburbs that is 2600 students when most 5A schools in Idaho are like 1200-1500 kids.
They had three or four skilled kids that were the best in the state over anyone else by far. Their oline was amazing. I asked about the two point versus the three point stance, and he said it really was up to them, they could do whatever they wanted. No crap, when they look like that I guess they could.
Long story short. All the coaches go to the VIP room for the free beer and I was talking to him ( I really did like his presentation and I think the world of him), but I finally leaned over to him and said, "Come on coach, what you are really saying is when you have ace kicking kids you can run whatever you want". It was a good laugh, but really they had a nice package and some awesome talent to go with it.
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Post by coachorr on Feb 2, 2008 20:25:30 GMT -6
Lochness, I agree. That is why I thought the one post about how the coach had his kids call the ISO play at the line (very simple and basic scheme) was such a great post. The coach who posted it was humble, descriptive and went into great detail to explain it. That was an example of a great post. But maybe it is just coming from a guy that is just short a few bricks.
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yspace
Sophomore Member
Posts: 145
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Post by yspace on Feb 2, 2008 20:29:59 GMT -6
The terms "cheap" and "expensive" to me aren't used to impress anyone (I first heard Kyle Flood use the term), but to descriptively convey a concept in a manner that uses less words and is more vivid than just saying "it takes less time." That, to me, is good coaching.
I do agree that there are probably people who throw around catchy words to sound smart, but that particular example just seems to me to be good communication.
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Post by theprez98 on Feb 2, 2008 23:16:37 GMT -6
Hard to beat these Penn State terms: "Fritz" is weakside linebacker. Named after Frank "Fritz" DeFluri, pizza shop owner in State College during the 1950's. "Backer" only applies to the middle LB. The more common "Sam" is the strongside LB. "Hero" is the strong safety. Growing up a Penn State fan, and having spent three years in State College, you almost assume everyone knows what these terms mean (and most Penn State fans do), but outside of the fandom, and outside of State College, most don't.
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Post by coachorr on Feb 3, 2008 0:37:37 GMT -6
Prez....... NICE..............!
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getbackcoach
Freshmen Member
"If it is important, you will find a way. If not you will find an excuse."
Posts: 92
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Post by getbackcoach on Feb 8, 2008 14:23:11 GMT -6
Jet motion, Fly motion. Pretty much the same thing. But you won't catch me using wing-t terms in my spread offense. Which just goes to show where most of the different verbiage comes from.... I think.
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Post by ufpena on Feb 9, 2008 19:09:59 GMT -6
When I go to clinics and men spend more than a reasonable number of minutes on a topic other than their assigned topic, I close my notebook and go find another. If the terms another individual speaker uses are unfamiliar to me, after he gets through speaking I corner him and get the info ro I get in contact with him to straighten out the verbage.
However, I refuse to submit clinic speakers to my own prejudices. If we were the speakers, we would also use terms that they would probably not understand.
Remember Men, the shoe will be on the other foot, and we will be the speakers at clinics. Remember !
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