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Post by lochness on Mar 19, 2016 8:17:04 GMT -6
I think a lot of good has been said here, and different approaches work in different communities and cultures.
I do think that it's a lot simpler than we sometimes make it out to be, though. I show my kids that I care by being present (as much as possible). I treat them like human beings. I don't try to manipulate them. I let them know that their experience (fun, learning, togetherness, etc) is my top priority. I don't yell at them or use sarcasm to "motivate" them. We treat them with mutual respect. I have a leadership council of 10 guys who we talk with about values, culture, action plans, etc. Guys have my cell number and can connect with me through our team twitter and Facebook accounts, which they do with varied frequency. We do some basic team building stuff (OL Buffet Day, 7v7 Tourney, bowling, etc). I joke around with them, bust their balls in the weight room, and take interest in other things they seem to care about. I tell them the truth in a straightforward and respectful manner.
That said, (and this might be controversial and even objectionable to some), I don't really totally buy into this whole movement that we need to strive to be life-changers and surrogate parents. I think you can over-do that stuff, and it just isn't my style. I've gone to 3-D Coaching Clinics, and I've read Joe Ehrmann's book cover-to-cover several times and really I love that stuff...but I don't view it as my responsibility to give these guys an experience that transcends anything they've ever experienced in their lives blah blah blah. I do incorporate some of those things into my thinking about our role as coaches and how we can impact and influence in a positive way...but I'm not on a crusade to change the world through football either. I'm not a cult leader or religious figure. I'm a guy who teaches football to a bunch of lunkheads, and I do it as best I can with their well-being in mind. I try to be a role model. I hope that my approach and relationships have great positive impact on our young people...but I'm still going to be me.
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Post by td4tc on Mar 19, 2016 9:10:24 GMT -6
Chuck Martin (one of Kelly's assistants at ND in the early days) gave a great talk at the ND clinic about how when he was at Grand Valley their only goal was "to be a great teammate". He went on to explain all this entails and it was pretty enlightening. Its not just how much you care but also how much their teammates care. Combining this with the Roosevelt quote "they don't care how much you know till they know how much you care" we decided to try this out and every day we asked a couple of guys randomly "what did you do to be a great teammate today?"
It seemed a little too touchy feely for me at first but amazing some of the responses we got from helping a teammate with homework, to setting them up with a date, getting their older brother to buy them beer, to teaching a younger player on the field. It ended up being a good exercise for the coaching staff too.
Another great recruiting tool to show them you care is go to one of their off season games (if they also play bball or something). Kids really appreciate that for some reason.
BUT if you really want to show them you care find a way to PLAY THEM even if they aren't the best. Kick return maybe?? Second row??
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Post by wolverine55 on Mar 19, 2016 9:24:25 GMT -6
I agree that one of the simplest things you can do is go to other games and encourage them to go out for other sports. I didn't realize the power of this until just a few years ago. I almost always go to basketball games anyway as I love that sport almost as much as football. At my current coaching job, I went to the first 10 or so basketball games of the season, home and away, and then there was a Tuesday night game that simply too far for me to go to on a school night. I didn't think anything of it until the next day at school when five or six kids asked me where I was!
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Post by coachphillip on Mar 19, 2016 9:28:30 GMT -6
carookie Just curious. What do kids say when you tell them they can't have your number after the graduate because "if they haven't learned by now, then they never will"?
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Post by coachphillip on Mar 19, 2016 9:34:49 GMT -6
lochness You're right, coach. It can sometimes seem like overdoing it when coaches wax poetic about being the surrogate parent in their kids' lives. In my experience, it's sad because I'm not trying to be that guy. I do as you say. I respect them, listen to them, talk to them, etc. and just genuinely care. Unfortunately, for some of these kids, you're the only person in their lives who is like that which thrusts you into that role.
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Post by lochness on Mar 19, 2016 10:16:16 GMT -6
lochness You're right, coach. It can sometimes seem like overdoing it when coaches wax poetic about being the surrogate parent in their kids' lives. In my experience, it's sad because I'm not trying to be that guy. I do as you say. I respect them, listen to them, talk to them, etc. and just genuinely care. Unfortunately, for some of these kids, you're the only person in their lives who is like that which thrusts you into that role. Fully agreed...and I think this is definitely ok if it happens naturally and you are equipped to be that guy. I just don't go actively looking to be "everyone's most influential person." I try to be a good man and a good role model, and not only do I care about all my guys, but I try to show it in ways that I am comfortable with and that I think are appropriate. But, that's the best I can do. It's the same philosophy i have with parenting my young sons. I just try to be a good dad. I'm not trying to be superdad...because that feels contrived and kind of lame to me.
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Post by 60zgo on Mar 19, 2016 11:27:07 GMT -6
That said, (and this might be controversial and even objectionable to some), I don't really totally buy into this whole movement that we need to strive to be life-changers and surrogate parents. I think you can over-do that stuff, and it just isn't my style. I've gone to 3-D Coaching Clinics, and I've read Joe Ehrmann's book cover-to-cover several times and really I love that stuff...but I don't view it as my responsibility to give these guys an experience that transcends anything they've ever experienced in their lives blah blah blah. Well. The whole point of the 3-D Coaching clinics is to convert you and the kids. But I feel similarly. I think it's kind of weird when guys try to become a cult of personality and save EVERY kid, because not every kid(or school) needs that. With that said most of my career has been spent in schools where we had plenty of kids on the team with problems at home or in the community. I've always tried to be the best coach/teacher/mentor I could be and then be there for the guys that needed something extra.
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Post by carookie on Mar 19, 2016 11:37:55 GMT -6
carookie Just curious. What do kids say when you tell them they can't have your number after the graduate because "if they haven't learned by now, then they never will"? It usually is followed by me telling them how I love them, and I want them to do great things, but I don't want to see them as one of those kids who keeps coming back here every week; swing by and say "hi" when you do come back, just dont let it be every week. Its time for them to go to the next stage in life, so don't become a super senior. I tell them that if I see them out and about I'd say hi to them, but they are not in HS anymore take this time and grow. They do come by and and talk, but I don't want it all the time. I'm gonna tell you a story that really influenced me on this: A few years back we had a foreign exchange kid who never really fit in until he became our school's waterboy. As the water boy he was beloved, and taken under the wings of a lot of people in athletics (he was very socially awkward but became a beloved figure on campus). Most all the coaches spent time with him, and everyone showed him how much they cared by taking him to eat dinner, giving him rides wherever he needed (he had a bike he rode everywhere usually). Problem was, he never learned how to get by on his own. Last semester of his senior year he started trying to get into trouble and screw up in classes so he wouldnt have to graduate. His 1st semester in college, he tried one weekend to ride his bike down to the campus because he missed all the help and caringness everyone provided; this was an over 700 mile ride some of it through mountainous regions. Now I am not going to continue with the story (kid lived though after being picked up). I will emphasize this next part I realize that is just ONE anecdotal story, and I know you can find small sample size anecdotal pieces of evidence to support any argument. And I am sure many of you have stories of people rescuing a player of theirs minutes before he had something bad happen. But as the one in the obvious minority here I decided to provide some context. I am trying to help these kids learn to get by without me; if I expect their mom and dads to learn to cut the cord then I better do the same thing too. You catch a man a fish you feed him for a day, you teach him how to fish you feed him for life; but if a kid is constantly leaning on me to catch that fish when will he ever learn.
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Post by wolverine55 on Mar 19, 2016 11:46:20 GMT -6
I TOTALLY agree with your message, carookie. I just think your relating it to never ever giving out a phone number is way overthinking it. But, as we've said many times, to each his own.
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Post by wolverine55 on Mar 19, 2016 11:57:09 GMT -6
I will add to that in re-reading some of your posts, your community seems a little batty when it comes to contacting coaches. Counting individual communities as part of co-op programs, I've coached for and/or lived in about ten different communities and I've never had anyone abuse the privilege of having my contact information or use the information inappropriately.
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Post by fantom on Mar 19, 2016 12:40:02 GMT -6
I will add to that in re-reading some of your posts, your community seems a little batty when it comes to contacting coaches. Counting individual communities as part of co-op programs, I've coached for and/or lived in about ten different communities and I've never had anyone abuse the privilege of having my contact information or use the information inappropriately. You get what you allow.
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Post by silkyice on Mar 19, 2016 16:55:02 GMT -6
]I am trying to help these kids learn to get by without me; if I expect their mom and dads to learn to cut the cord then I better do the same thing too. You catch a man a fish you feed him for a day, you teach him how to fish you feed him for life; but if a kid is constantly leaning on me to catch that fish when will he ever learn. carookie, I certainly respect you on this board as does everyone else. If you don't want to give out your phone number or have much contact with the kids after they graduate, that is your choice and fine by me. But your logic on cutting the cord or fishing or whatever is baffling to me. I don't think anyone is talking about that we should raise all these players after they graduate or take care of them or whatever. But I mean, heck, if a former player of mine just wanted to chat, or needed some advice, or let me know some good news or bad news, I would be honored.
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Post by Cody Gardner on Mar 19, 2016 17:25:36 GMT -6
No matter how good a kids life is, all of them need more adults to talk with, or model, care about them. It can be family, teacher, coach, or clergy. I make efforts to improve the day to day lives of the kids who really need it, to make sure I don't miss one, all of them get that treatment. It's always the person over the player, so yeah they have my cell and they have been to my house to eat, they know my wife's name(they won't dare caller her it), and I get weekly communication for past players. We all like to talk Footbal is like life, culture over scheme, process over product, as much as I ask on and off the field for four years, how can I not hold myself to the same standard as the kids.
Sorry I kind of took that to the pulpit.
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Post by carookie on Mar 19, 2016 22:17:01 GMT -6
]I am trying to help these kids learn to get by without me; if I expect their mom and dads to learn to cut the cord then I better do the same thing too. You catch a man a fish you feed him for a day, you teach him how to fish you feed him for life; but if a kid is constantly leaning on me to catch that fish when will he ever learn. carookie , I certainly respect you on this board as does everyone else. If you don't want to give out your phone number or have much contact with the kids after they graduate, that is your choice and fine by me. But your logic on cutting the cord or fishing or whatever is baffling to me. I don't think anyone is talking about that we should raise all these players after they graduate or take care of them or whatever. But I mean, heck, if a former player of mine just wanted to chat, or needed some advice, or let me know some good news or bad news, I would be honored. You know, the more I think about it, the more I realize its just the way I communicate. If a former player/student of mine wants to tell me something of interest they can email me on my work email (it hasnt changed); people don't need my personal cell phone number to do so. But for me, I feel like there is a line I want to draw to keep things on the professional level. My analogy to cutting the cord was a response to the argument of 'giving players our numbers in case they needed us to help them out with something.'
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Post by groundchuck on Mar 20, 2016 4:51:56 GMT -6
There are a ton of ways which have already been mentioned. Be sincere and help mentor them. Just be sincere.
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Post by td4tc on Mar 20, 2016 6:37:39 GMT -6
This is a two way street also. When the kids show THEY care by showing up, listening to coaching , being a great teammate it can turn a lousy day into a good one for me. Some years I feel a little selfish in that I'm the one having the most fun and getting more out of it than the kids even. Plus, while I am supposedly "helping them grow up" they are helping me to be a kid again. Works both ways. Those are the years we have the most success on the field too.
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Post by lochness on Mar 20, 2016 7:08:29 GMT -6
This is a two way street also. When the kids show THEY care by showing up, listening to coaching , being a great teammate it can turn a lousy day into a good one for me. Some years I feel a little selfish in that I'm the one having the most fun and getting more out of it than the kids even. Plus, while I am supposedly "helping them grow up" they are helping me to be a kid again. Works both ways. Those are the years we have the most success on the field too. So true. I can't tell you how many times I've left work to go to the weight room in a drained, frustrated state. By the time I'm leaving the weight room, I'm completely re-energized because of my guys. It's great.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Mar 20, 2016 8:40:50 GMT -6
It's always nice to ask how their day is and helping a kid when they are in need, but I don't think that is anything revolutionary or that it's anything more than just doing what people should do with the people they come in contact with anyway, regardless of what job you have and regardless of whether or not you're an educator and coach. As coaches, I think doing the job itself is enough. I do not mean that in a "I don't care" kind of way but as way of an example. Show up to every practice, have detailed structured practice plans, care enough to make sure their prepared come game time, have well-thought game plans, treat them when they're hurt, check on their grades, and show up to some off-season games. Doesn't seem like any kind of facemelter thing to me.
A previous poster said that he didn't realize how much it meant to kids until he didn't show up to a basketball game once. This reminds me of a situation I was once a part of as an assistant. We had 2 new coaches one season, 1 a seasoned veteran with a good reputation and from a much bigger program. And the other, a 23 year old who just got out of college with zero experience. The veteran would show up late to practice, would leave coaching meetings early, would say the program was solid but always complained about the level of talent, and always had a "good idea" that didn't necessarily fit well with our system. While the new guy, ate up everything from the HC and DC, was the first one out to practice with his position group, monitored the locker room after practice and talked to kids in the meantime, always invited the other assistant coches out for beers or any other kind of gathering, and really made sure he held his players accountable.
The next season, our spring practice started. The veteran coach did not come back with us and the young coach had a family emergency that didn't allow him to show up to the first couple of days. All the kids asked where the young coach was and if he was coming back. Not a single one of them even noticed that the veteran coach wasn't there.
With that being said I think doing your job and doing it well is the best way to show you care. You can give out your cell phone, sing coombya (spelling), hug your players, tell them you love them, and all that other crap, but if you're showing up to practice late, don't know the game plan, don't know the 4th stringers name, and didnt watch a lick of film over the weekend, then you're being a poser IMO.
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Post by silkyice on Mar 21, 2016 7:35:58 GMT -6
It's always nice to ask how their day is and helping a kid when they are in need, but I don't think that is anything revolutionary or that it's anything more than just doing what people should do with the people they come in contact with anyway, regardless of what job you have and regardless of whether or not you're an educator and coach. As coaches, I think doing the job itself is enough. I do not mean that in a "I don't care" kind of way but as way of an example. Show up to every practice, have detailed structured practice plans, care enough to make sure their prepared come game time, have well-thought game plans, treat them when they're hurt, check on their grades, and show up to some off-season games. Doesn't seem like any kind of facemelter thing to me. A previous poster said that he didn't realize how much it meant to kids until he didn't show up to a basketball game once. This reminds me of a situation I was once a part of as an assistant. We had 2 new coaches one season, 1 a seasoned veteran with a good reputation and from a much bigger program. And the other, a 23 year old who just got out of college with zero experience. The veteran would show up late to practice, would leave coaching meetings early, would say the program was solid but always complained about the level of talent, and always had a "good idea" that didn't necessarily fit well with our system. While the new guy, ate up everything from the HC and DC, was the first one out to practice with his position group, monitored the locker room after practice and talked to kids in the meantime, always invited the other assistant coches out for beers or any other kind of gathering, and really made sure he held his players accountable. The next season, our spring practice started. The veteran coach did not come back with us and the young coach had a family emergency that didn't allow him to show up to the first couple of days. All the kids asked where the young coach was and if he was coming back. Not a single one of them even noticed that the veteran coach wasn't there. With that being said I think doing your job and doing it well is the best way to show you care. You can give out your cell phone, sing coombya (spelling), hug your players, tell them you love them, and all that other crap, but if you're showing up to practice late, don't know the game plan, don't know the 4th stringers name, and didnt watch a lick of film over the weekend, then you're being a poser IMO. Excellent post! Especially - I think doing your job and doing it well is the best way to show you care. You can give out your cell phone, sing coombya (spelling), hug your players, tell them you love them, and all that other crap, but if you're showing up to practice late, don't know the game plan, don't know the 4th stringers name, and didnt watch a lick of film over the weekend, then you're being a poser IMO.
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Post by hunhdisciple on Mar 21, 2016 8:44:31 GMT -6
I always try to let the players know that I'm willing to help them with any problem that I can. I won't hold their hand, but since about half of my position guys haven't seen their dad in years (some cases, ever) I know they probably need someone who can help with something.
I've found that the kids who need the care are the ones who are usually the quickest to respond to it. And just about every kid responds to food and drink.
If a kid needs my number, they can have it. If somebody gets it who doesn't need it, I just ignore it. It's not an issue for me. And whenever I give them my number, I always preface with "I'm giving this to you, not to everybody who asks you for it. I trust that you'll do the right thing with it." And I make sure they know I won't text about playing time under any circumstances.
Every kid is different, so there really isn't a universal approach. After a week or two of practice, I think you should be able to get a feel for who the kid is and isn't, and then just work from there. There are some kids I just don't understand anything about, because they're born and raised farmers and thats not my life at all. But, even making your glaring differences known is a good way to make a connection. I have one redneck, and we regularly talk about our weekends, which is followed by him explaining to me the finer points of hunting, fishing and muddin'.
And I'm sure some people here will be appalled that I say this to a position group, but before every game I'll say the same thing: Play 100mph, don't leave anything in question. When you get them down, keep them down. I love you guys, and I'm proud as f--k to be with you all. Go out, and kick the s--t out of them." They always tend to smile and nod when I have profanity in pregame. And they know that talk is only for them.
I want the kids to know I care, because it meant a lot to me when my coaches cared. And I know for sure that some of these kids need me more than I ever needed my coaches.
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Post by fcboiler87 on Mar 21, 2016 9:00:48 GMT -6
As many have alluded to, you have to be yourself. Kids can see through it. I've struggled at my current spot with this topic because this place is just weird. There are way too many teachers/coaches here who haven't escaped high school and have less maturity than many of our students. The adult/friend thing is blurred way too much so it sends a terrible message to these kids. The ones who try to be adults and establish that line often have trouble simply because they've been around so many people around here that they have almost this expectation of friendship. When I came in and set a line and didn't act like their buddy, I was portrayed as someone who doesn't care. It's taken two years of just being here, getting to know them and showing them that I can instead of acting like their buddy to gain their trust. Cultures are a weird thing and I know I won't change it but at least I've been able to prove I care to the kids through time and just being myself.
The phone thing doesn't bother me. I set the expectation that I am giving you this if you NEED something. Don't text me for fun or for anything else, just if you have a question or a need. I set this to the parents too. I told them I'm a parent of a young child, please don't utilize my cell phone unless it's something you truly need otherwise please email me. I've had no issues and the communication has worked well.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 21, 2016 9:24:57 GMT -6
I got a text about a week ago from a number I didn't know. Claimed to be a 22 year old girl who had a thing for me when she was in school and I was subbing there. Said she got my number from a current football player and was trying to escalate things pretty quickly. I shut that down just as quick, but it is a very good example of why having my number out there does worry me some times. Are you single? If yes, I'm having a hard time seeing the problem in this.
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Post by John Knight on Mar 21, 2016 11:49:05 GMT -6
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Post by coachbdud on Mar 21, 2016 11:58:33 GMT -6
I don't get this at all. What are you worried about? I got a text about a week ago from a number I didn't know. Claimed to be a 22 year old girl who had a thing for me when she was in school and I was subbing there. Said she got my number from a current football player and was trying to escalate things pretty quickly. I shut that down just as quick, but it is a very good example of why having my number out there does worry me some times. poor you
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Post by olinedude on Mar 21, 2016 12:30:51 GMT -6
The bottom line is to actually care, and be available to help them when they need you. How they need you will vary based on the place that you're at.
The last school I was at all of my players had my number and would text me all the time. I'd get everything from "coach can you buy me dinner? I had to give my paycheck to my mom to pay the electric bill" to stupid internet memes from players. This was a place with a bunch of kids who had a lot of struggles at home. They needed a coach they knew would be there for them when they were struggling with stuff. Would they text me randomly late at night? Yep, but if it was too late I'd tell them "you can't text me after 10 if its an emergency." In doing so you're teaching kids who to handle communicating with people professionally. Also, texting your players will create a closer bond. They feel closer with you because you let them into your life more.
The school I'm at now there is much less need for that. These kids have stable home lives and don't has much of a need for a father figure to be there 24/7 because they already have a father figure in their lives. These kids know I care about them, but they don't need that kind of relationship.
Every place is different, but bottom line is you have to take interest in their lives and be there for your kids when they need you. Some kid may need a meal or else they aren't going to eat all day, some kids just need help filling out a FAFSA. They just need to know that when they need something, you are there.
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Post by dytmook on Mar 21, 2016 14:31:06 GMT -6
I try to ask them about random stuff or crack a joke before practice or weights. I almost always ask them if they have their homework done. I try to be at as much as possible but working a "normal" job makes it hard so I try to make the time I'm there count and most of the kids who have been there know my situation and are cool with it. I want to find a job that will allow me to be around a lot more soon. I also will bring my daughter to more casual things or in a pinch because I do believe it is a football family and it shows them that having a kid isn't easy. though I bring her around a lot less since she's highly mobile. The kids ask about her all the time. You can also tell the kids who have younger siblings based off how they interact with a little one.
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Post by gators1422 on Mar 22, 2016 8:18:16 GMT -6
One thing about kids is they see right through the {censored}. If you are about this as a job and don't care about the kids they know it. All of our kids have most of the coaches cell phones and we text or call them on a regular basis. Football is à 12 month sport not just during season. Our best football player called me this season at 1am one Saturday night this year. He had been jumped and hit with a pipe in the eye and was scared of how bad it was and of his parents. The kid trusted me enough to know I would help him out!! If you have that kind of trust that kid will do anything for you. We called his parents took him to the hospital, broken orbital bone. This kid misses the following game then suits up the rest of the season. The kid knew I had his back so to speak and would do anything for him. It's certainly different than when I played but it works for us.
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Post by fshamrock on Mar 22, 2016 9:34:03 GMT -6
The best way to care is to actually care. Not just by saying you care, but truly caring about your players on and off the field. I give my players my cell number. If they have a problem or question they can text me. They can call me. I don't think there is any issue with this. I tell my players this is a family, and we don't need to share our numbers outside the family. If someone calls or texts that I don't know I typically don't respond. They use twitter and Facebook. I am on both. Facebook is more to keep up with friends and former players. Twitter I use to talk ball, network, and share positive information. I may shout a kid out on Twitter. I don't think Facebook and Twitter help you care, they are more for communication. I am going to give you a deep thought here and jump on my soapbox. Coaching is about LOVE. It is about unconditional love. You love your players for who they are, not what they do. You love them as much when they are at their worst as you do when they are at their best. When you stick by them when they are at their worst they will begin to trust you. This does not mean not holding them accountable. Quite the contrary, you will be able to hold them accountable and they won't resent you. Love is spelled T-I-M-E. You must be willing to give them time. You must spend time getting to know them. You must spend time listening to them. You must be willing to help them when they have a problem they don't know how to solve. The first key is getting to know them. Break them into groups of 8 to 10. Spend the first 8 minutes each day asking them about their families, their hopes, their dreams, and their fears. do this every single day in the winter and spring. During this time they will learn about you, you will learn about them, and they will learn about each other. You can use this time to teach character and teach them real life lessons. Here is a link to a blog post I wrote on coaching with a purpose: coachvint.blogspot.com/2015/03/coaching-with-purpose.htmlHere is one on Building Culture, Character, and Leadership: coachvint.blogspot.com/2016/03/developing-culture-character-and.htmlYou can't build trust and unconditional love by chance. You can't teach character by chance. You can't build culture by chance. You have to do these with intent. dude when I read this I played "take my breath away" by Berlin in the background then started a slow clap that picked up by several others thanks man..you said it all bro
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Post by John Knight on Mar 22, 2016 9:43:45 GMT -6
If he uses that he needs to pay you shamrock!!
dude when I read this I played "take my breath away" by Berlin in the background then started a slow clap that picked up by several others
thanks man..you said it all bro
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Post by fshamrock on Mar 22, 2016 9:48:16 GMT -6
If he uses that he needs to pay you shamrock!! dude when I read this I played "take my breath away" by Berlin in the background then started a slow clap that picked up by several others
thanks man..you said it all broDang you're right I don't want to show up on somebody's "testimonials" page on their blog without compensation I've got my "personal brand" to think about....whatever the hell that is
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