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Post by John Knight on Mar 9, 2016 8:47:53 GMT -6
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Post by raymul313 on Mar 9, 2016 9:54:25 GMT -6
I don't get how one is related to the other, but no he shouldn't be fired if he wasnt serving underage
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Post by hunhdisciple on Mar 9, 2016 9:58:37 GMT -6
That is absolutely 100% insane. It's legal, and if his actions were legal, then there is no grey area.
That's really weak of the district. Really weak.
I've thought about brewing and researched brewing, but ultimately didn't trust myself not to screw it up majorly. If I smoked, and it was legal in my state, I would totally grow my own.
Again, this is just weak from that school. If it's legal, then your moral compass doesn't matter.
Unless this was a private school. They are free to do whatever they want, pretty much.
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Post by gccwolverine on Mar 9, 2016 10:10:48 GMT -6
That is absolutely 100% insane. It's legal, and if his actions were legal, then there is no grey area. That's really weak of the district. Really weak. I've thought about brewing and researched brewing, but ultimately didn't trust myself not to screw it up majorly. If I smoked, and it was legal in my state, I would totally grow my own. Again, this is just weak from that school. If it's legal, then your moral compass doesn't matter. Unless this was a private school. They are free to do whatever they want, pretty much. 1 thing to consider is it is still technically a violation of federal law. Even though the states in question have "legalized" it, the federal government has not. Now they just have chosen not to be very aggressive in enforcing federal law. I think it should be legal everywhere but its not so I don't like the premise that its the same as craft beer. It's not. Craft beer isn't illegal at the federal level. |
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Post by rosey65 on Mar 9, 2016 12:05:12 GMT -6
The craft beer analogy was throwing me off, but this is an interesting point. I've seen teachers/coaches fired for perfectly legal, safe, off-the-clock jobs and activities. Schools try and cite the "role model" topic, but it seems to go hand in hand with public perception. Laws/ethics can be broken if no one knows or cares. But piss off the wrong person, or make the wrong headline, and you could be fired for taking communion in church.
To touch on the weed topic, we are in a massive perception shift akin to prohibition in the 20's. I have a feeling these happenings will happen in greater numbers over the next several years, as the country adjusts its' perceptions. I'm a Health teacher at my school, and this is a huge topic. Not just in class, in dealings with the curriculum writers in my county who dont understand what is going on in the rest of the country. Now, back to your regularly scheduled football rants...
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Post by brophy on Mar 9, 2016 12:33:50 GMT -6
This really depends on his moral barometer.....er....I mean, HOW MANY GAMES WAS THE GUY WINNING?
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Post by John Knight on Mar 9, 2016 12:36:31 GMT -6
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Post by fantom on Mar 9, 2016 12:55:20 GMT -6
In my experience, most times a story sounds outrageous there's more to it than we heard. I'll wait for all of the facts.
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Post by silkyice on Mar 9, 2016 13:19:37 GMT -6
In my experience, most times a story sounds outrageous there's more to it than we heard. I'll wait for all of the facts. Exactly. I agree. That is very wise position. We don't know any of the facts at all. Was it light beer? Dark? Pilsner? Wheat? I mean come on, how can we know? |
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Post by coachjm on Mar 9, 2016 13:31:44 GMT -6
A new female teacher wants to compensate her income by working at a local establishment dancing topless in the evening... I can think of more then a few school districts that would frown on this and remove the teacher from their post doing this legal activity. The legality of the activity has nothing to do with the decision of the district.
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Post by jrk5150 on Mar 9, 2016 15:14:15 GMT -6
People are fired in all walks of life for what they do on their own time if it reflects poorly on their employer. That's just the way it goes. Frankly it happens less often in education because of the union contracts.
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Post by fantom on Mar 9, 2016 16:19:27 GMT -6
. Frankly it happens less often in education because of the union contracts. I don't know where you are but that is definitely NOT a universal rule. |
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Post by coachb23 on Mar 9, 2016 16:19:28 GMT -6
A new female teacher wants to compensate her income by working at a local establishment dancing topless in the evening... I can think of more then a few school districts that would frown on this and remove the teacher from their post doing this legal activity. The legality of the activity has nothing to do with the decision of the district. I give it a 10....a 10....a f&@*ing ten!.......Ms. Davis, will you go to prom with me? |
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Post by jrk5150 on Mar 9, 2016 17:40:20 GMT -6
. Frankly it happens less often in education because of the union contracts. I don't know where you are but that is definitely NOT a universal rule. Assuming you quoted just what you disagreed with, I guess I could have made my point without that comment, since I was more talking about it not being uncommon or even unusual in the business world. If one of our staff had a pot farm, whether that farm is legal or not he/she is getting fired. And it would be 100% about perception - I work at a professional services firm and our reputation is a big part of our business. I certainly have seen teachers fired over reputation things (heck - is happening now in S. Carolina with the nude pics on the teacher's phone), but I would have thought it's relatively uncommon in public schools that are under a CBA. |
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Post by 33coach on Mar 9, 2016 18:02:42 GMT -6
People are fired in all walks of life for what they do on their own time if it reflects poorly on their employer. That's just the way it goes. Frankly it happens less often in education because of the union contracts. what about brewing beer reflects poorly on the district though? beer is not some taboo in our culture. |
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Post by jrk5150 on Mar 9, 2016 18:05:32 GMT -6
Not my finest posting moment, I'm afraid, LOL.
I would not fire someone for brewing beer. I might for growing pot. At least until it is more socially acceptable to do.
My ultimate point was the legality of an action isn't really the final word when it comes to your employment. People are fired for perception all the time even when they are doing things that are technically legal.
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Post by jlenwood on Mar 9, 2016 20:16:53 GMT -6
"Any time you are in a position of influence over children everything you do matters. As a coach you are no longer a private person. You represent the school and the community. As such, they have the right to expect you to represent certain moral values. If you do not agree with them then you do not need to coach there."
I love this response from someone named "Thomas". I had brought up my issues with the "non-renewal" contracts we all get, and frankly this is another instance of a bunch of pu$$y administrators who don't have the ball$ to say why they let the guy go. If it is because he is growing weed, a legal product in that state, then say it. Friggin cowards!
Not to go on a rant, but I am convinced if weed was legalized the use among HS kids would go down. Once it is legalized and regulated, it would become harder to get. The only reason so many kids smoke weed is because they can't buy beer. The age was raised to 21 and MADD made it impossible to purchase from some shady convenience store, so kids migrated to what was easy to get---weed. I am not implying that I think kids should be drinking or smoking, just stating my opinion on why pot use is so rampant.
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Post by coachjm on Mar 9, 2016 20:23:27 GMT -6
People are fired in all walks of life for what they do on their own time if it reflects poorly on their employer. That's just the way it goes. Frankly it happens less often in education because of the union contracts. what about brewing beer reflects poorly on the district though? beer is not some taboo in our culture. 99% of the time nothing...... However, in a highly conservative community with strong religious convictions against the use of alcohol if you open a new pub named Coaches Place, likely it would cause quite a stir that could potentially prevent you from maintaining your position. Also, it would be not advisable to open a pub in a community that has strong convictions against drinking. My first superintendent in 2000 offered me the advice "if I ever see you coming out of the the bar in town don't come back to work here" |
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Post by 33coach on Mar 9, 2016 20:24:37 GMT -6
what about brewing beer reflects poorly on the district though? beer is not some taboo in our culture. 99% of the time nothing...... However, in a highly conservative community with strong religious convictions against the use of alcohol if you open a new pub named Coaches Place, likely it would cause quite a stir that could potentially prevent you from maintaining your position. Also, it would be not advisable to open a pub in a community that has strong convictions against drinking. My first superintendent in 2000 offered me the advice "if I ever see you coming out of the the bar in town don't come back to work here" That's insanity... |
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Post by ksmitty79 on Mar 9, 2016 21:23:14 GMT -6
I wonder what the state laws are about drug-testing for THC where it is legal. I know there was some discussion about this when states started legalizing its use. The reason why I ask that is isn't schools a drug-free workplace..
I think is social perception.. Alcohol vs. Weed. Alcohol use has been socially accepted in just about every community in the country (only mass exception is the Mormon community.) Weed is still frowned upon. Think about addiction vs. heart disease/Obesity. It's consider the "Norm" to have heart disease as opposed to having an addiction. Yet the are both considered diseases. I know your thinking where in the world and I going with. Weed is still considered by the vast majority of Americans as Taboo or Bad even in states where use is legalized.
My personal views are as this. When I decided to get into Teaching/Coaching, I knew I had to live by another code. I can't ride around town yelling at people that cut me off in traffic. I can't blast people on Social Media. I can't get arrested with out the whole county knowing about it. We as teacher/coaches are viewed (rather we want to or not) model citizens for these young men and women that we work with. Its definitely an interesting discussion to say the least.
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Post by coachguy83 on Mar 10, 2016 5:24:40 GMT -6
I wonder what the state laws are about drug-testing for THC where it is legal. I know there was some discussion about this when states started legalizing its use. The reason why I ask that is isn't schools a drug-free workplace.. I believe that courts have ruled that employers can still drug test for THC and terminate employees for positive tests. The coach in question is not the first person in Washington to be fired over legal marijuana. The first person to purchase legal weed had his face all over the news and internet, which his employer did not appreciate and they fired him. |
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Post by spos21ram on Mar 10, 2016 5:29:36 GMT -6
I wonder what the state laws are about drug-testing for THC where it is legal. I know there was some discussion about this when states started legalizing its use. The reason why I ask that is isn't schools a drug-free workplace.. I believe that courts have ruled that employers can still drug test for THC and terminate employees for positive tests. The coach in question is not the first person in Washington to be fired over legal marijuana. The first person to purchase legal weed had his face all over the news and internet, which his employer did not appreciate and they fired him. Who ever said anything about the coach in the article actually consuming the Marijuana? It's talking about a legal business according to state law. Yes, we all know people can get fired for anything, but the important thing is what will hold up in court. If he were to sue and win, you will probably see less firing for owning a dispensery/grow house. Not sure for coaches or teachers, but someone must have been fired for this and then sued their employer. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards |
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Post by jlenwood on Mar 10, 2016 5:32:28 GMT -6
My personal views are as this. When I decided to get into Teaching/Coaching, I knew I had to live by another code. I can't ride around town yelling at people that cut me off in traffic. I can't blast people on Social Media. I can't get arrested with out the whole county knowing about it. We as teacher/coaches are viewed (rather we want to or not) model citizens for these young men and women that we work with. Its definitely an interesting discussion to say the least. But this applies to so many professions besides coaching/teaching. I own a company that has lettered vehicles, I can't scream at people who cut me off, it would reflect bad on the company. In the community, I can't do dumb stuff that would reflect back on my company. If you are a bank president, you can't get a DUI....the list goes on and on. Just because you are a teacher/coach doesn't mean you have a monopoly on "living by another code". The issue is this is a legal product in that state, just as home brewing is. He isn't out on a corner slinging dope to kids, he isn't on America's Most Wanted, he isn't on the FBI top ten list......so why is he let go? How far can admins take this line of reasoning? Say you own the corner convenience store and they let you go for selling cigs. For me it all boils down to schools have no right to judge what anyone LEGALLY does after the school day is over, IMO. |
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Post by spos21ram on Mar 10, 2016 5:45:37 GMT -6
Our assistant coach owns a bar in town. Is it really any different if marijuana is legal in your state? Only difference is the federal law.
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Post by coachjm on Mar 10, 2016 5:52:03 GMT -6
Our assistant coach owns a bar in town. Is it really any different if marijuana is legal in your state? Only difference is the federal law. Likely the bigger difference is the community perspective in your area vs. this community in Washington. if your community was 90% Mormon your assistant coach either wouldn't own the bar or wouldn't be coaching... My point with this is it has less about legality and more about the perception the district wants. Ultimately, most folks coaching contracts can be eliminated very easily... |
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Post by coachguy83 on Mar 10, 2016 6:47:30 GMT -6
I believe that courts have ruled that employers can still drug test for THC and terminate employees for positive tests. The coach in question is not the first person in Washington to be fired over legal marijuana. The first person to purchase legal weed had his face all over the news and internet, which his employer did not appreciate and they fired him. Who ever said anything about the coach in the article actually consuming the Marijuana? It's talking about a legal business according to state law. Yes, we all know people can get fired for anything, but the important thing is what will hold up in court. If he were to sue and win, you will probably see less firing for owning a dispensery/grow house. Not sure for coaches or teachers, but someone must have been fired for this and then sued their employer. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards The coach really doesn't have any legal recourse in the situation because Washington is an at will employment state. Also growing marijuana is still technically illegal even if the state has "legalized" it, so running a grow operation is still a legal gray area. I honestly do not agree with the decisions and support legalization of marijuana everywhere, but I also do not think the school district overstepped their bounds. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2016 7:29:55 GMT -6
If you read the article, the coach in question was fired for opening a "legal" pot business in WA. The analogy is to brewing beer, but he was actually selling pot.
Personally, I lean more towards libertarianism and think they should have left him alone, but if a coach on your staff opened up a legal but frowned upon business like a head shop, sex shop, porn site, or strip club, do you think the school would want to keep him around? How would parents react when they found out?
If a coach owned a bar where I live, or even took a job bar tending a few nights a week, he'd be out the door as soon as admin found out. Not saying it's right--I strongly disagree, personally--but that is how it is.
Also, whether you agree or disagree, pot is still illegal at the federal level, which makes all the state "legalization" efforts moot. The Feds could step in and send this guy to prison at any time if they choose to.
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Post by leighty on Mar 10, 2016 12:08:21 GMT -6
what about brewing beer reflects poorly on the district though? beer is not some taboo in our culture. Brewing beer was an analogy used by the author of the post. The guy isn't brewing beer; he's growing and selling marijuana. |
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Post by leighty on Mar 10, 2016 12:13:01 GMT -6
Our assistant coach owns a bar in town. Is it really any different if marijuana is legal in your state? Only difference is the federal law. Likely the bigger difference is the community perspective in your area vs. this community in Washington. if your community was 90% Mormon your assistant coach either wouldn't own the bar or wouldn't be coaching... My point with this is it has less about legality and more about the perception the district wants. Ultimately, most folks coaching contracts can be eliminated very easily... Washington Initiative 502, the referendum that legalized marijuana, was passed by a 56% popular vote, which means there are plenty of people in Washington state who believe marijuana should still be illegal. The stroke of a pen isn't going to change the long-held beliefs about the morality of marijuana for too many people. |
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Post by 33coach on Mar 10, 2016 12:14:48 GMT -6
Likely the bigger difference is the community perspective in your area vs. this community in Washington. if your community was 90% Mormon your assistant coach either wouldn't own the bar or wouldn't be coaching... My point with this is it has less about legality and more about the perception the district wants. Ultimately, most folks coaching contracts can be eliminated very easily... Washington Initiative 502, the referendum that legalized marijuana, was passed by a 56% popular vote, which means there are plenty of people in Washington state who believe marijuana should still be illegal. The stroke of a pen isn't going to change the long-held beliefs about the morality of marijuana for too many people.  |
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