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Post by debragga on Oct 24, 2015 13:33:21 GMT -6
www.dallasnews.com/sports/high-schools/headlines/20151023-why-ennis-lufkin-high-school-football-game-had-to-be-decided-by-a-coin-flip.eceBy MATT STEPP / Special Contributor ENNIS - After spending nearly six hours in traffic to make the 150 mile trek from deep East Texas, Lufkin (5-3, 4-1) earned a key District 16-5A win over Ennis (4-4, 3-2) via the simple flip of a coin. After waiting two-and-a-half hours for the rain and lightning to clear the area, both coaches agreed to decide the game with an old-fashioned coin flip, instead of trying to replay the game Saturday or Monday. On two separate occasions, the 30-minute timer after a lightning strike got under five minutes before the clock was reset with another strike in the area, including the final time when the clock got to under a minute and coaches and managers began to set up on the sidelines. Ennis head coach Jack Alvarez was not pleased with the result, but he had the bigger picture in mind for his team as he agonized over the decision in the Ennis locker room during the delay. "This was just a unique set of circumstances, both of us (Lufkin head coach Todd Quick) wanted to get the game in, but the weather just wasn't clearing and it took them six hours to get here. Having them come all the way back here Saturday really wasn't an option, and the weather is supposed to be just as bad. "Neither of us wanted to play on Monday, so we were left with really no good options. If you play on Monday, now your entire schedule is thrown off real close to the playoffs and neither of us felt long term that was the best for our kids. They won the coin toss to open the game so I thought the odds were with me, I felt lucky," said Alvarez. "Our kids are disappointed and I'm disappointed, it's something I've never had to do and I don't want to do again, we need to just win our next two games and see where things fall," replied Alvarez when asked about his feelings after such an odd way to lose. Although neither team has clinched a playoff spot, Lufkin looks to be in decent shape as they close with Corsicana and winless Jacksonville. Ennis likely needs to win both of its remaining games, against Lindale and Corsicana, both of whom are right in the thick of the playoff chase as well.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 24, 2015 13:49:45 GMT -6
Cool story.
Can we please get rid of the 30 minute clock reset on a lightning strike? We all have up to date weather radars in our hands now.
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Post by John Knight on Oct 25, 2015 6:00:54 GMT -6
They should have had the 2 head coaches arm wrestle. Winner takes all
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Post by KYCoach2331 on Oct 25, 2015 6:37:25 GMT -6
They should have had the 2 head coaches arm wrestle. Winner takes all Game of Madden. |
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 25, 2015 8:50:47 GMT -6
They should have had the 2 head coaches arm wrestle. Winner takes all Game of Madden. Nah. Tecmo Bowl! |
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Post by KYCoach2331 on Oct 25, 2015 10:56:46 GMT -6
Little more for you old school guys! Just kidding! Put it on the projector screen in the gymnasium if possible and let the fans watch. I guarantee you the fans could call plays then |
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 25, 2015 10:58:24 GMT -6
Little more for you old school guys! Just kidding! Put it on the projector screen in the gymnasium if possible and let the fans watch. I guarantee you the fans could call plays then I'm not even 30 yet, but Tecmo Bowl is awesome. You know if you projected it the fans would be trying to call plays. Everybody is an expert. |
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Post by dytmook on Oct 25, 2015 13:20:40 GMT -6
Down B is the best play, everyone knows that.
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Post by veerman on Oct 25, 2015 17:48:22 GMT -6
Any play to Bo Jackson.....even if someone called the play he was still going for 6!!!
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Post by groundchuck on Oct 25, 2015 20:55:14 GMT -6
What's with the 30 min clock? Like an earlier post said we all have up to date weather info on our phones now.
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Post by John Knight on Oct 26, 2015 4:43:31 GMT -6
www.ohsaa.org/sports/OHSAAInclementWeatherPolicy.pdfTHIRTY-MINUTE RULE – Competition or practice shall be suspended once lightning has been recognized or thunder is heard. It is required to wait at least 30 minutes after the last flash of lightning is witnessed or thunder is heard prior to resuming practice or competition. Given the average rates of thunderstorm travel, the storm should move 10-12 miles away from the area. This significantly reduces the risk of local lightning flashes. Any subsequent lightning or thunder after the beginning of the 30-minute count shall reset the clock, and another count shall begin.
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Post by PSS on Oct 26, 2015 6:21:22 GMT -6
The remnants of Hurricane Patricia were going through the state Friday night. All parts of the state but west Texas were getting several inches of rain and round after round of thunderstorms. IMO, not worth putting the lives of athletes in danger. Lightning is one thing I will not mess around with.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 26, 2015 7:31:51 GMT -6
The remnants of Hurricane Patricia were going through the state Friday night. All parts of the state but west Texas were getting several inches of rain and round after round of thunderstorms. IMO, not worth putting the lives of athletes in danger. Lightning is one thing I will not mess around with. I certainly am not advocating being an idiot. But when a storm blows through and 20 minutes later it is fine and you can check your radar see that it is 5-10 miles away and heading away, it is ridiculous to reset the clock because at 29 minutes you see a flash of lightning 12 miles away, and then 20 minutes later you reset again because you see one again. All the sudden the prudent and appropriate 20 minute delay turns into 1 hour and 20 minutes and then a warmup, so it is an hour and half delay. And people can talk about being safe and cautions, but reason should win out. It isn't like every(ok almost every) parent wouldn't let there kid go play in the yard, 10 minutes after the storm ended. I am also not saying that was the situation that happened in the OP. I was not there. |
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Post by PSS on Oct 26, 2015 7:52:11 GMT -6
We have a lightning detector / warning system in our stadium. If we have a strike within 15 miles a horn will go off. Trainer will make us clear the field if it is a practice, if it's a game they have to empty the stadium. When the time is up or the storm is out of the area an all clear horn will sound.
Happened to us at practice last week. Luckily we have an indoor facility we can practice in.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 26, 2015 7:55:32 GMT -6
We have a lightning detector / warning system in our stadium. If we have a strike within 15 miles a horn will go off. Trainer will make us clear the field if it is a practice, if it's a game they have to empty the stadium. When the time is up or the storm is out of the area an all clear horn will sound. Happened to us at practice last week. Luckily we have an indoor facility we can practice in. Exactly what I am talking about. You do know that some life-ending meteors travel within a few thousand miles of earth. I think my opponents should have to cancel practice when that happens. Where has reason gone? Sorry for being a jerk. |
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Post by fbs on Oct 26, 2015 13:40:46 GMT -6
it's not rocket science. If there's even a chance that a kid or coach or trainer could be struck by lightning and you can help it not happen then it's your duty to get them off the field. We have a text alert that tells us to get off the field if there's lightning within 15 miles.
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Post by PSS on Oct 26, 2015 13:53:45 GMT -6
it's not rocket science. If there's even a chance that a kid or coach or trainer could be struck by lightning and you can help it not happen then it's your duty to get them off the field. We have a text alert that tells us to get off the field if there's lightning within 15 miles. Like I stated above, I don't mess around with Mother Nature. It's like they are playing in a west Texas district with that kind of travel. |
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Post by fbs on Oct 26, 2015 14:48:17 GMT -6
I was agreeing with you dude. good talk.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 26, 2015 17:05:10 GMT -6
it's not rocket science. If there's even a chance that a kid or coach or trainer could be struck by lightning and you can help it not happen then it's your duty to get them off the field. We have a text alert that tells us to get off the field if there's lightning within 15 miles. I think y'all are misunderstanding what I am saying. I am talking about when the storm has passed. It is gone. Everyone knows it is gone and headed away. Everyone's radar on their phone says that. But we still wait 20 more minutes and then a bolt in the storm that is now gone strikes 15 miles away, a whole town away, heck two whole towns away, and we now wait 30 more minutes? That just defies reason. If we just apply the rule, we could be worse off. The storm is sitting right on top of you and the radar says that, but lightning has not struck in 30 minutes on your timer. Safe to play? Really? |
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pistola
Sophomore Member
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Post by pistola on Oct 27, 2015 9:21:06 GMT -6
if its still within 15 miles then there is still a chance.. dont mess with it.. theres no REASON in trying to get everybody back on the field in such a rush.. not worth it
I do not want to be the coach or administrator who gets kids back on too early and have a lightning strike hit the field.. There is no REASON in that
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Post by olinedude on Oct 27, 2015 11:45:32 GMT -6
The article here is misleading. The teams could have come back the next day or even monday to play the game. However, there was still a really good chance of lightning on Saturday also. The HCs made a decision to flip a coin, it wasn't mandatory, but there was no way they were going to get that game played that night.
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Post by PSS on Oct 27, 2015 13:04:13 GMT -6
The article here is misleading. The teams could have come back the next day or even monday to play the game. However, there was still a really good chance of lightning on Saturday also. The HCs made a decision to flip a coin, it wasn't mandatory, but there was no way they were going to get that game played that night. This was the best scenario for both teams. They are in the middle of a district race. One team (Ennis) has to drive 150 miles. A Monday game would throw their entire schedule off. They couldn't play again until Saturday because of the UIL rule of 5 days between games. I would say the Ennis coach knows what he is doing. They are the defending state champions. A district loss is not going to hurt him much. He is looking out for what's best for his team to make the playoffs and to make a run in the playoffs. I went through something similar when Hurricane Ike hit the coast a few years ago. We had to cancel a game but picked one up the next week. Played on a Monday and Saturday. Then had to prep for the opening of district play. Was a long 2 weeks. Seemed like we never caught up. |
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Post by olinedude on Oct 27, 2015 13:23:33 GMT -6
I don't think it was the best thing for them. They were the home team. They didn't have to go anywhere, they could have made the other team drive again the next day. They are in a tight run for the playoffs and the final two games they have left are going to be really tough games to play. I don't understand what Ennis's Head Coach was thinking. I'm sure he knows more than I do, but I don't understand.
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Post by fantom on Oct 27, 2015 13:26:48 GMT -6
I don't think it was the best thing for them. They were the home team. They didn't have to go anywhere, they could have made the other team drive again the next day. They are in a tight run for the playoffs and the final two games they have left are going to be really tough games to play. I don't understand what Ennis's Head Coach was thinking. I'm sure he knows more than I do, but I don't understand. Maybe he doesn't want to be seen as a jerk. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2015 13:37:30 GMT -6
The remnants of Hurricane Patricia were going through the state Friday night. All parts of the state but west Texas were getting several inches of rain and round after round of thunderstorms. IMO, not worth putting the lives of athletes in danger. Lightning is one thing I will not mess around with. I certainly am not advocating being an idiot. But when a storm blows through and 20 minutes later it is fine and you can check your radar see that it is 5-10 miles away and heading away, it is ridiculous to reset the clock because at 29 minutes you see a flash of lightning 12 miles away, and then 20 minutes later you reset again because you see one again. All the sudden the prudent and appropriate 20 minute delay turns into 1 hour and 20 minutes and then a warmup, so it is an hour and half delay. And people can talk about being safe and cautions, but reason should win out. It isn't like every(ok almost every) parent wouldn't let there kid go play in the yard, 10 minutes after the storm ended. I am also not saying that was the situation that happened in the OP. I was not there. The safety at all cost, big picture, is a dangerous game we are playing. |
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Post by PSS on Oct 27, 2015 13:51:05 GMT -6
I don't think it was the best thing for them. They were the home team. They didn't have to go anywhere, they could have made the other team drive again the next day. They are in a tight run for the playoffs and the final two games they have left are going to be really tough games to play. I don't understand what Ennis's Head Coach was thinking. I'm sure he knows more than I do, but I don't understand. I know some games in that area were played Monday, several late Saturday. But again none had to travel that distance. They had several highways betweens those towns completely closed on Saturday because of flooding. Interstate 45 was completely shut down. Like I explained, play on Monday then go into Saturday's game with very little prep. IMO and experience, odds are better if you have a full week to prepare for next opponent. Something else that also isn't discussed are the district rules and calls that were made to the UIL. |
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Post by olinedude on Oct 29, 2015 11:19:10 GMT -6
No district rule says he has to coin flip. And, who cares if you "look like a jerk." Let your kids play it out. Ennis now has to beat Corsicana, who is dang good, the last week of the season to get in. Make the other teams drive, or flip a coin on Monday if it still isn't playable. Do your prep for the week as coaches Saturday and Sunday for the next game, be ready to go, set up your practices just likes its a short week Thursday game, but by no means do I flip a coin on Friday night. The only time I might do that is if I think the other team is better than us and I like my odds more on a coin flip, or if there isn't a playoff spot on the line. Your job isn't to cater to the other coaches, the other kids, or any fans. Your job is to win and get your guys in the playoffs. Maybe I could see it if you didn't finish with Corsicana, but I don't like the call to flip a coin.
That being said, I have a tremendous amount of respect for Alvarez. I'm sure he has his own justifications for it, I'm sure he felt like he was doing what is best for his team, but its not what I would have done.
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Post by fantom on Oct 29, 2015 11:34:46 GMT -6
And, who cares if you "look like a jerk." Playing hardball here may- MAY- help you win one game but getting a reputation as a guy who's a PITA to deal with can last for a whole career. |
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Post by olinedude on Oct 29, 2015 11:38:36 GMT -6
I agree its important not to get a reputation as a jerk. However, I think every coach in the state would understand saying, "nope, no coin flip. We're going to let our kids decide it on the grass." Every coach I have talked to about it has said, "what was he thinking?"
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Post by veerman on Oct 30, 2015 6:33:11 GMT -6
I was just thinking why not just call a no contest? It happens sometimes, more often than a coin flip. They were not region or district games I don't think, so why not call no contest since there was not one.
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