pistola
Sophomore Member
Posts: 193
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Post by pistola on Sept 30, 2015 10:45:13 GMT -6
What really blew my mind tho was after we beat one team the HC, who is also the DC, came up to me after the game and asked why we didn't run B more. He said "coach we knew you were gonna run A and we knew we could stop it or at least slow it down. But we also know you can run B as well and we were really scared of B more than A. I crunched the numbers and no matter what I threw at it you guys could run or throw it on us easily". Keep in mind tho that me and that HC are good buddy's and we bounce ideas off each other all the time. Am I just missing something here? YESmaybe i missed it but I didnt see anywhere where you talked about why the kids didnt like him.. Is verbally abusive? a prick? whats the deal? Scheme? ya kids understand that very well.
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Post by spos21ram on Sept 30, 2015 10:57:47 GMT -6
What really blew my mind tho was after we beat one team the HC, who is also the DC, came up to me after the game and asked why we didn't run B more. He said "coach we knew you were gonna run A and we knew we could stop it or at least slow it down. But we also know you can run B as well and we were really scared of B more than A. I crunched the numbers and no matter what I threw at it you guys could run or throw it on us easily". Keep in mind tho that me and that HC are good buddy's and we bounce ideas off each other all the time. Am I just missing something here? YESmaybe i missed it but I didnt see anywhere where you talked about why the kids didnt like him.. Is verbally abusive? a prick? whats the deal? Scheme? ya kids understand that very well.I thought he said the kids didn't like him because they don't run spread stuff enough. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards
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Post by joelee on Sept 30, 2015 11:13:55 GMT -6
You started out the thread saying kids don't like the guy and detailing a story about a kid quitting. Now you have shifted to spread works better than whatever the other is after people told you to mind your own business and do your own job. Which is it? Either way deal with it in an internal meeting on the weekend sometime. You stated that you are behind the OC 100%. That is either a lie or you don't understand what that statement means.
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Post by fbs on Sept 30, 2015 13:04:34 GMT -6
when I was a young coach I worked for a guy who was an older man. he happened to be one of the winningest football coaches in texas history. In fact, the summer before I started work for him he was inducted into the texas high school football association hall of fame. not too shabby, right? within weeks of starting the season, we are beating people by a wide margin playing a run first offense and taking our shots in the air off playaction, while playing suffocating defense. I had the nerve to complain to anyone that would listen (except the HC, which makes me a coward) that we should be running a spread, pass first attack. this is a HALL OF FAMER, and little stupid 22 year old me thinks he knows best. As time has passed and I've become better and better at my craft through experience, I realize now what an absolute fool I was for thinking I knew more than he did. I took all the things I could have learned from him and pi$$ed it away and left after one year. It was the biggest mistake I could have made. Given my attitude at the time though, it was the best thing for the program that I move on, just like it sounds like that's the best thing for you. When you're young, you're dumb. Simple as that. You don't know half of what you think you know. The kids come to you because you're young and there's not as much of an age gap, so the kids naturally relate to you. This is good, but also dangerous. You are falling into the trap of thinking that it's a good thing to have those discussions with kids. NEVER, EVER talk about a coach or give your opinions good or bad about scheme or how they're being coached. Be a professional at all times. Sorry so long, but I am an opinionated fella.
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pistola
Sophomore Member
Posts: 193
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Post by pistola on Sept 30, 2015 13:19:02 GMT -6
YESmaybe i missed it but I didnt see anywhere where you talked about why the kids didnt like him.. Is verbally abusive? a prick? whats the deal? Scheme? ya kids understand that very well. I thought he said the kids didn't like him because they don't run spread stuff enough. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards I probably misunderstood then.. I thought he was just saying that the one kid quit and another kid was sad his buddy left.. other than im missisng examples of kids not liking him. but hey the kids probably understand "schemes" and what the offense is trying to do better than the vet........
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Post by fbs on Sept 30, 2015 13:21:00 GMT -6
as far as the scheme itself goes... the first thing that came to mind from what you describe is the option. If you bounce back and forth from the flexbone (just an example) to spread and you're running the flex 80% of the time, I can promise you that they're spending 80% of their practice time on that. What you're missing in all this is that those type offenses are not meant to score 50 and win shootouts. they're meant to grind the ball and avoid shootouts altogether. I'll mirror what the others have said: get on board or find somewhere else to work.
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Post by Defcord on Sept 30, 2015 19:08:33 GMT -6
I will add this. Sounds fun to call the plays and it is a blast when they work but for every call made there is an outcome positive or negative.
Suggestions don't have that. Suggestions always play out well. Decisions don't.
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Post by fbs on Oct 1, 2015 9:17:04 GMT -6
well said, sir.
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Post by coachbone53 on Oct 1, 2015 9:29:19 GMT -6
The kids don't like him because of his play calling choices. For example Scheme A is Splitbacks 3 Veer with TE's and a WB. Scheme B is Splitbacks 3 Veer with WR's split out. Scheme A works some of the time. Scheme B works almost all the time. The coach would rather run Scheme A than B. That is why the kids don't like him.
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Post by coachbone53 on Oct 1, 2015 9:37:05 GMT -6
when I was a young coach I worked for a guy who was an older man. he happened to be one of the winningest football coaches in texas history. In fact, the summer before I started work for him he was inducted into the texas high school football association hall of fame. not too shabby, right? within weeks of starting the season, we are beating people by a wide margin playing a run first offense and taking our shots in the air off playaction, while playing suffocating defense. I had the nerve to complain to anyone that would listen (except the HC, which makes me a coward) that we should be running a spread, pass first attack. this is a HALL OF FAMER, and little stupid 22 year old me thinks he knows best. As time has passed and I've become better and better at my craft through experience, I realize now what an absolute fool I was for thinking I knew more than he did. I took all the things I could have learned from him and pi$$ed it away and left after one year. It was the biggest mistake I could have made. Given my attitude at the time though, it was the best thing for the program that I move on, just like it sounds like that's the best thing for you. When you're young, you're dumb. Simple as that. You don't know half of what you think you know. The kids come to you because you're young and there's not as much of an age gap, so the kids naturally relate to you. This is good, but also dangerous. You are falling into the trap of thinking that it's a good thing to have those discussions with kids. NEVER, EVER talk about a coach or give your opinions good or bad about scheme or how they're being coached. Be a professional at all times. Sorry so long, but I am an opinionated fella. I stand behind the coach and support him and when the players come up and talk I never undermine the OC. I always tell them that the offense will work we just have to execute better. The offense and Scheme is fine but execution is where it is lacking. Again tho its not like we are a Flex Bone and the kids want to run Spread. Scheme A is Split Backs with double tight and a Wing. Scheme B is Split Backs with Twins and a Single.
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Post by coachphillip on Oct 1, 2015 9:51:34 GMT -6
The kids don't like him because of his play calling choices. For example Scheme A is Splitbacks 3 Veer with TE's and a WB. Scheme B is Splitbacks 3 Veer with WR's split out. Scheme A works some of the time. Scheme B works almost all the time. The coach would rather run Scheme A than B. That is why the kids don't like him. What's the issue you're encountering when you bring the TEs in vs having one TE? Not able to block all the guys?
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Post by newhope on Oct 1, 2015 10:06:29 GMT -6
My question is this: why are you having these conversations with kids about another coach? The first time should have been the last time. Best coaching staff I ever had was a hierarchy of a-holes. Kids had nobody to go whine to.
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Post by coachbone53 on Oct 1, 2015 10:08:00 GMT -6
The kids don't like him because of his play calling choices. For example Scheme A is Splitbacks 3 Veer with TE's and a WB. Scheme B is Splitbacks 3 Veer with WR's split out. Scheme A works some of the time. Scheme B works almost all the time. The coach would rather run Scheme A than B. That is why the kids don't like him. What's the issue you're encountering when you bring the TEs in vs having one TE? Not able to block all the guys? 9 in the box vs 6-7 in the box. Our guys have a harder time with their reads and blocks when everyone is jumbled together than when the field is opened up a little bit.
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Post by morris on Oct 1, 2015 10:12:11 GMT -6
Why is everything so cryptic? Scheme A and Scheme B and formations. Just say what the heck the issue is. I mean granted we can all put 2 and 2 together because no way I am getting 5-6 man box with a DTDW. What position group do you coach? I am just wondering.
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Post by Cody Gardner on Oct 1, 2015 10:22:02 GMT -6
So scheme A is veer and scheme B is veer, I am just a dumb defensive guy but is the difference just formations and personnel?
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Post by coachphillip on Oct 1, 2015 10:26:46 GMT -6
Why is everything so cryptic? Scheme A and Scheme B and formations. Just say what the heck the issue is. I mean granted we can all put 2 and 2 together because no way I am getting 5-6 man box with a DTDW. What position group do you coach? I am just wondering. Money is on OL.
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Post by 33coach on Oct 1, 2015 10:35:26 GMT -6
The kids don't like him because of his play calling choices. For example Scheme A is Splitbacks 3 Veer with TE's and a WB. Scheme B is Splitbacks 3 Veer with WR's split out. Scheme A works some of the time. Scheme B works almost all the time. The coach would rather run Scheme A than B. That is why the kids don't like him. this is where i look a kid square in the face and say: "if you dont like it, turn in your gear. either be apart of the team or dont." and id say the same to you if i was the HC. ever think that the reason "its not working" is because you are letting kids believe it doesnt work, and discussing the fact that it doesnt work with them? you and the complainers are cancers that probably need to be cut out.
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pistola
Sophomore Member
Posts: 193
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Post by pistola on Oct 1, 2015 10:36:06 GMT -6
The kids don't like him because of his play calling choices. For example Scheme A is Splitbacks 3 Veer with TE's and a WB. Scheme B is Splitbacks 3 Veer with WR's split out. Scheme A works some of the time. Scheme B works almost all the time. The coach would rather run Scheme A than B. That is why the kids don't like him. Sounds like these kids have too many dads and moms at home in their ears and maybe just maybe coaches that are giving them their ear too much. Sounds like the season has been somewhat successful, and probably too successful to have these types of problems at all.
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Post by coachbone53 on Oct 1, 2015 10:36:53 GMT -6
Yes the difference is just formations and personnel. We have more success using twins and a wide out than double tight with a wing. We run the ball and pound it. We don't want to throw it unless we have to. It's like our line goes dumb when they see 9 in the box instead of 7. I am the WR/DB coach and I try to help them out as much as I can.
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Post by 33coach on Oct 1, 2015 10:38:05 GMT -6
Yes the difference is just formations and personnel. We have more success using twins and a wide out than double tight with a wing. We run the ball and pound it. We don't want to throw it unless we have to. It's like our line goes dumb when they see 9 in the box instead of 7. I am the WR/DB coach and I try to help them out as much as I can. again, i fully believe your issue is not formation, but belief you have kids who say "oh this doesnt work" so they dont try as hard - proving themselves right.
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Post by coachbone53 on Oct 1, 2015 10:43:25 GMT -6
The kids don't like him because of his play calling choices. For example Scheme A is Splitbacks 3 Veer with TE's and a WB. Scheme B is Splitbacks 3 Veer with WR's split out. Scheme A works some of the time. Scheme B works almost all the time. The coach would rather run Scheme A than B. That is why the kids don't like him. this is where i look a kid square in the face and say: "if you dont like it, turn in your gear. either be apart of the team or dont." and id say the same to you if i was the HC. ever think that the reason "its not working" is because you are letting kids believe it doesnt work, and discussing the fact that it doesnt work with them? you and the complainers are cancers that probably need to be cut out. I do not discuss this type of stuff with the players. Do I let them vent and talk to me yes but I do not discuss this with them. My guys know I am probably one of the toughest coaches on our staff but they also know I care about them and listen to their problems so they come to me. So I would appreciate it if you wouldn't go attacking my character or work ethic until you know me. Thank you sir
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Post by 33coach on Oct 1, 2015 10:47:52 GMT -6
this is where i look a kid square in the face and say: "if you dont like it, turn in your gear. either be apart of the team or dont." and id say the same to you if i was the HC. ever think that the reason "its not working" is because you are letting kids believe it doesnt work, and discussing the fact that it doesnt work with them? you and the complainers are cancers that probably need to be cut out. I do not discuss this type of stuff with the players. Do I let them vent and talk to me yes but I do not discuss this with them. My guys know I am probably one of the toughest coaches on our staff but they also know I care about them and listen to their problems so they come to me. So I would appreciate it if you wouldn't go attacking my character or work ethic until you know me. Thank you sir if they are coming to you, and you are allowing the discussion to happen, then you are discussing it. hell, you are talking about it publicly, i cant believe that you have said NOTHING to or around players, even in passing.
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Post by Cody Gardner on Oct 1, 2015 10:53:08 GMT -6
Well if its formation and personnel, it ain't the play call. Veer is veer, the problem is execution, and that is on the players. Tell the guys to address their concerns with their teammates. If I run dime, 4th and inches vs a wing t team; that is a bad call. If I call an over front instead of under front but both calls are gap sound and we get beat, it aint the call, its the execution.
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 1, 2015 10:57:21 GMT -6
I do not discuss this type of stuff with the players. Do I let them vent and talk to me yes but I do not discuss this with them. My guys know I am probably one of the toughest coaches on our staff but they also know I care about them and listen to their problems so they come to me. So I would appreciate it if you wouldn't go attacking my character or work ethic until you know me. Thank you sir if they are coming to you, and you are allowing the discussion to happen, then you are discussing it. hell, you are talking about it publicly, i cant believe that you have said NOTHING to or around players, even in passing. I don't beleive for a second the OP just let's the players vent to him without discussing the issue with them. There's no way he just sits there and listens. He has to respond back in some way. About the caring for your players part....this example is not caring for your players. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards
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Post by 33coach on Oct 1, 2015 11:00:32 GMT -6
if they are coming to you, and you are allowing the discussion to happen, then you are discussing it. hell, you are talking about it publicly, i cant believe that you have said NOTHING to or around players, even in passing. I don't beleive for a second the OP just let's the players vent to him without discussing the issue with them. There's no way he just sits there and listens. He has to respond back in some way. About the caring for your players part....this example is not caring for your players. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards me too, and thats why im saying, he is part of the problem. the solution is to as a unified staff come out and say "if you dont like it, there is the door".
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Post by coachbone53 on Oct 1, 2015 11:08:41 GMT -6
if they are coming to you, and you are allowing the discussion to happen, then you are discussing it. hell, you are talking about it publicly, i cant believe that you have said NOTHING to or around players, even in passing. I don't beleive for a second the OP just let's the players vent to him without discussing the issue with them. There's no way he just sits there and listens. He had to respond back on some way. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards Any time any of my players come to me with concerns or questions or doubts about football I always respond with this. "Ok. Now that you have said your piece and I didn't interrupt you and gave you respect are you going to show me the same and let me speak? The offense will work however we run it. Whether it be A or B we will get yards and we will score. Now whether it happens fast or not is not for anyone but the football gods. What is our team motto? 'Hit Hard. Hit Fast. Never Give Up.' Now if we fail at either one of these 3 we fail at all of them. If we don't Hit Hard or Fast it is because we gave up. We absolutely can not give up. Don't give up on your reads. Don't give up on your blocks. Don't give up on your routes. And most importantly don't give up on us coaches. Remember that we can only teach you at the most 20% of this game of football. The other 90% has to come from you because football requires 110%. Always strive for that extra 10%. Give it time and it will all work out." This is the speech I have given maybe 10 times so far this year.
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Post by CS on Oct 1, 2015 11:40:37 GMT -6
The kids don't like him because of his play calling choices. For example Scheme A is Splitbacks 3 Veer with TE's and a WB. Scheme B is Splitbacks 3 Veer with WR's split out. Scheme A works some of the time. Scheme B works almost all the time. The coach would rather run Scheme A than B. That is why the kids don't like him. You don't get it. Just stop posting on this thread and move on
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mikeyg
Sophomore Member
Posts: 154
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Post by mikeyg on Oct 1, 2015 11:46:19 GMT -6
Poor guy just won't leave it alone. LOL. But seriously tho I think the OP needs to settle down and read what everyone is saying. It is the kids who are driving this drive of hate and he just needs to accept that he might have to let it blow up in their faces. At least that's what I'm seeing.
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Post by soonerj355alan on Oct 1, 2015 12:58:00 GMT -6
I read this entire thread and now want my time back....haha. You asked for advice but then you argue with it. Bottom line it is not the scheme unless running out of two tights (my preferred way to run option actually) changes how you are doing it somehow. The reads don't change....veer is veer. If the line freaks out when more guys are in the box, then they must not have rules to govern what they decide to do. Again, veer is veer and changing a formation or a personnel grouping should not have that large of an effect unless the personnel you are putting in to get 2 TE are sub-par personnel. I hear spread guys say to spread the field and get guys out of the box all the time. And while I believe there is a time and place for that, I say if I spread it on offense and you don't respect it then why not bring my extra guys into the box to block your extra guys. Age old argument of spread vs traditional formations. They all have there place and it all depends on what your personnel can do in any given year.
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Post by fbs on Oct 1, 2015 13:15:30 GMT -6
I don't beleive for a second the OP just let's the players vent to him without discussing the issue with them. There's no way he just sits there and listens. He had to respond back on some way. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards Any time any of my players come to me with concerns or questions or doubts about football I always respond with this. "Ok. Now that you have said your piece and I didn't interrupt you and gave you respect are you going to show me the same and let me speak? The offense will work however we run it. Whether it be A or B we will get yards and we will score. Now whether it happens fast or not is not for anyone but the football gods. What is our team motto? 'Hit Hard. Hit Fast. Never Give Up.' Now if we fail at either one of these 3 we fail at all of them. If we don't Hit Hard or Fast it is because we gave up. We absolutely can not give up. Don't give up on your reads. Don't give up on your blocks. Don't give up on your routes. And most importantly don't give up on us coaches. Remember that we can only teach you at the most 20% of this game of football. The other 90% has to come from you because football requires 110%. Always strive for that extra 10%. Give it time and it will all work out." This is the speech I have given maybe 10 times so far this year. If you've given it ten times, you need a new speech. Seriously though. If everything you've said here is true, if I were the HC I'd fire your butt yesterday. The role of the young guy is to keep his mouth shut and learn how to coach kids. The pitfall is that you think you know too much, and that includes taking liberties in your conversations with kids. On top of that, if that's the speech you're giving kids I'm not sure I've ever read anything so bland, uniform and hokey.
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