Do your Middle School/Prep team run your plays

This has been discussed a great deal here. The general consensus is probably something like this : While obviously it isnt a negative thing to have younger age groups running the same plays, alignments,etc. and using the same vocabulary as you do, on the list of things you want from those feeder schools it is extremely far down the list.

What is your relationship with the coaches at those locations? How long has the current HC been at the high school?

We give the middle school staff access to our program so they can run our stuff. Obviously we would love for them to run it like we do but we understand that it is not likely to happen. We try to get them to do some of the basic indy stuff that we do and use some terminology. Offense we teach them our basics and that's it. If they can send us kids who get into a good stance, fire out, tackle someone with their head up, and step with the correct foot I'd be ecstatic.

By far are we not being demanding at all. We do not have middle school football in our county (one of the two in the state that doesn't....different topic for a different day.) We just have a prep league that has a couple of teams. I honestly just wanted to see what has or hasn't worked and view points.

viewpoint-- worry about other things.

Establish a relationship with the prep league if legal in your area.  Offer help/support.  Have camps for kids. Invite them to play on your field.  Invite those kids to your games etc. 

The REASON schools that are vertically integrated are successful is NOT because they run the same scheme/use same terms.  It is because the younger kids learn at a young age what it means to be play football the  (insert mascot here) way, and grow up with a desire to be a (insert mascot).  

Ours do. We are all the same program from Varsity to 7th grade. As HC, I hire the JR high coaches and we operate as one staff from the top down. I would have a major problem with not being able to control what the jr high is doing too.

No ours do not.

Ours try to. However except for HC our MS is not well staffed. So usually what ends up happening is they run our O and tweak a few things to fit their kids and start running our D but don't know how to adjust it to anything and end up going to the standard middle school bear front. Also, we as the HS need to do a better job of teaching our MS coaches bc they are willing to do what we ask but we don't teach them our terminology or how to adjust stuff. That's our fault. Not theirs.

It's funny you say that because I'm pretty much in the same position. I'm a new HC here and when I met with the youth director, that's what he suggested. So what I have is a boiled down version of what we do and a few options for them to do. The main thing I tell them has been said in this thread already: fundamentals. We want terminology too but I won't over control what they are doing unless they want it all which so far they have. I'll take it because like you said they just might be out there yelling and not really coaching. 

This is what makes the difference. If the varsity HC is contractually the MS coach's boss he has the right to have him run whatever he wants. If not he can educate, he can ask, he can persuade but he can't make the MS coach do anything. 

I agree there isn't much of a downside to the youth teams running a watered down version of the HS's, except for the coaches possibly not knowing a thing about it, but I think you're over estimating the importance of it. I also feel going through the whole process of getting the youth coaches on board, then teaching them your system is valuable time that could be spent elsewhere. I strongly disagree that the kids will be 2 years behind if they aren't running the HS system. IMO there is no way it will take 2 years for a HS kid to learn an offense if he's taught the fundamentals of football at the youth level. I use to be a huge believer in youth teams running their HS's offense, but reading the numerous threads on here, I have changed my mind. 33's post on this subject is one of the main reasons I change my opinion a couple years back. 

If you are a coach, you run what you believe in, buy into and can adjust. That doesnt happen over night.

But I hold the belief, which is backed by what I see in the top HS programs in CA. That what matters is reaching proper fundamentals and teamwork and citizenship.

Running what the HS runs doesn't matter....Unless of course my paycheck comes from the HCs budget...If it doesn't...then I'll do what I want and if it matches up, great, if it doesnt...you have 4 years to teach them your words and schemes.

But regardless my kids will be fundamentally sound, and ready to work hard for you.

At my old school and the school I'm at now, the MS team runs a modified variation of the Varsity's offense & defense.

The HS coaches will go to practices, weight training, conditioning, etc to help with whatever is needed. As a varsity coach, I expected the kids to be in a technically sound stance and knowing the fundamentals of the offense & defense. However, we do go over them all at the beginning of each year for those that forget and the new kids.

I think that it is very helpful and useful for the MS to install the basic version of the high school's offense and defense. However, I would rather the kids be fundamentally sound rather than knowing the plays but having the stance and firing out like a turtle...

I'm not ignorant to the ways different systems are set up in different states. The original post clearly comes from a coach who has a middle school program that feeds their high school.    Yes, different places are organized different ways, but the OP obviously has a middle school feeder.

If the HS coach is canned, find out what the new guy is going to run. If the high school is changing offenses, they probably still have a base offense that they are tweaking at the varsity level.  Find out what their base is and do that. Now, if the high school is jumping from the wing t to the spread and then to the I from year to year, yeah I'll concede, it would be tempting to do your own thing.

Now for your nice little shot there at the end... If all the other schools in Texas we're coaching against have had their kids running the same offense/defense since they were in 7th grade and my guys are starting at 9th grade, then yes I'm two years behind.  If I'm teaching my guys a whole new offense at the Fr/JV level while other schools already have the majority of their system in and can focus on bettering their fundamentals, yes I'm at a disadvantage. When my center hasn't taken a gun snap his whole career and we're spread, yes I'm far behind the 8 ball. If my Qb has been under center handing the ball off over and over and doesn't understand smash concept, yes I'm behind the 8 ball. 

I guess us HS coaches should just work concede and work miracles with guys when we get them because they could run outside and give the ball to their fastest, best athlete and crushed everybody running the I in middle school...

we can drop the ego BS and get to the basics here....

I think most HS guys would like it if their MS feeder program ran, at the very least, their terminology system, base system, etc. but, if this isn't possible or enforceable then I doubt, very seriously, it even matters because they know they can't control that.

basically you have 2 scenarios.

1) if they can enforce such a scenario... i.e. like here where we are all one staff from 7th through 12th then we all work together because we're all on the same staff so we help this process by establishing minimums, packages of our system for 7th, 8th, 9th, JV, etc..... then they probably all operate with little problem with someone wanting to "run my own stuff" or the MS guys saying "I don't believe in it" stuff. it's more unified from the outset, there is a chain of command type flowchart in place

or

2) if they can't enforce, whether in another state or in a place where there is no true feeder (split middle schools, etc.) then they probably don't bother with it nor do they get worked up about it. there is a good chance the MS coaches don't fall directly under any given HC so no authority, accountability, etc. issues allow one to be right or wrong.


At the end of the day, though ... for guys in scenario 1... if your boss says "this is what you're running" then that is what you are running. He has the power to adjust your football position. But, that doesn't make it right or wrong, it just makes it what it is for that particular scenario. with this, the one staff thing, there should me an effort more towards professional development of all coaches. they all, ultimately, should want the same thing. success for all their teams.

so, if you are in a situation where you are not directly tied in any shape form or fashion to the jurisdiction of the HS HC (i.e. you aren't a '1 staff' type thing) then, I guess do whatever you "believe in" and don't worry about anything else. doesn't make it right or wrong, just makes it what it is.

but, if you are part of the HS staff, per se, and you are accountable to the HS HC then I'm guessing it would be best for your job status at that place to do what the man says regarding the coaching of any athletes in the program. doesn't make it right or wrong, just makes it what it is.

so, enough with the ego stuff.... because, well, in one situation you can't control it and the other one you can't enforce it.